Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

[Shazam!]

Re: Fifa 11

Tackling could be similar to the poke-check in NHL

 

[tobi]

Re: Fifa 11

@ romagnoli

When playing the game did you notice players pushing the ball instead of passing the ball?

There are times when I'll want to pass the ball to a nearby team mate (say 3/4 yards away) but instead of passing the ball with his instep, he'll lazily (or forcefully) push the ball with the outside of his foot. This sometimes leads to passes going to the wrong feet/intended area or passes moving so slowly that it allows the opposition to charge in and intercept it.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

I don't recall having a problem with that tbh. Do you mean when they casually just roll the ball a few feet to a teammate? Are you talking as an assisted pass or a manual/semi pass?

Fundamentally I guess the key point is that you control the speed of your passes now. It isn't a case of tapping a button and the game deciding how hard you hit it, so if the player only pushes the ball towards a teammate then you should have put more pace on it.

 

[Placebo]

Re: Fifa 11

Will throughballs still take far longer to power up than short/long passes? I found this change really annoying especially as I like to use the manual through ball in place of the short pass which I keep on semi because this keeps a good passing balance for me (short on semi with throughballs/long on manual). Seemed to me one of those lazy changes in response to complaints about abuse of throughballs.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

I thought through balls were just weaker than normal passes at equal charges? So a 30% throughball would be weaker than a 30% ground pass?

I use semi controls and I prefer the manual through ball weighting to manual ground passes. I don't seem to get on with manual pass at all, whereas with throughball I can really get the weighting bang on. I often just use manual through ball to advance up the pitch, particularly when on the break.

If it was the same as ground passes then there'd be no point in having two buttons for the same thing. If you don't like it, how would you go about getting the same ability to accurately weight short range balls (which is what a slower charge gives you) while also being able to hit snappy longer range passes?

 

[tobi]

Re: Fifa 11

Do you mean when they casually just roll the ball a few feet to a teammate?

Yes.

I can understand when the player has time and space to make this decision but when the ball is in a congested area, it's annoying when they do this.

 

[lothario]

Re: Fifa 11

Does anyone know, what the difference between triangle and x is, when playing full manual on ps3?

 

[drekkard]

Re: Fifa 11

In my oppinion, there should be only one button for passing in general, and everybody should play manual. That would simplify things and make things more logical, as you can TRY a pass in a direction and a given power and stats try to simulate depending on the player. That would end all possible debate about it. Yep, it's hard to get used to manual, but there's no going back from it. Current fustration for many people is that they have a very easy alternative. I know I'm in the minority here and most of the people just want an easier way to play. But I love manualness and it's my oppinion!

And yes, in manual, the through pass right now takes ages to "charge" so I ended up playing everything with the manual pass, and when you master it, it works marvels and feels great.

 

[Placebo]

Re: Fifa 11

I thought through balls were just weaker than normal passes at equal charges? So a 30% throughball would be weaker than a 30% ground pass?

I guess that could be it but technically it's the same outcome either way

I use semi controls and I prefer the manual through ball weighting to manual ground passes. I don't seem to get on with manual pass at all, whereas with throughball I can really get the weighting bang on. I often just use manual through ball to advance up the pitch, particularly when on the break.

If it was the same as ground passes then there'd be no point in having two buttons for the same thing. If you don't like it, how would you go about getting the same ability to accurately weight short range balls (which is what a slower charge gives you) while also being able to hit snappy longer range passes?

I use short passing on semi for snappy passes at short distances, I use manual through balls as a short-medium distance pass I want to keep on the ground.

Another thing that's great in the world cup game and utter shite on 09/10, post match player stat screen, will it stay the same so we can actually see the full breakdown for every player rather than just MOTM? (It's possible you or someone else already answered this in the distant past)........

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Personally I'm not convinced manual ground pass is up to the task of simple 5 yard lay-offs diagonally back to an onrushing midfielder. It feels as though through balls hold up more on the turf, or are a naturally slower speed, and when I want that pass I much prefer triangle. X by contrast seems to lead to real inconsistencies between a lazy 'push' as Tobi mentions and a way overhit sidefoot of the ball. When you have to get the ball into a particular space at a particular time to hit a movin target while avoiding others, I feel the throughball is much, much better than X. I do have a lot more experience with it to be fair though.

I was kind of hoping somebody would suggest L2+X as a slower charged pass? With R1 being a curled ball or something. Or alternatively a manual toggle button for semi ground pass, much as PES is going for (and I suggested on here well over a year ago!)

Placebo - I think it was in. Weirdly I can't remember one way or another! There was a pretty nice touch in-game with a little box dropping down from the scoreline and showing you stats like number of corners, or possession, or number of shots on goal etc. A bit like the WC2010 display for goal news flashes.

 

[Wilko22]

Re: Fifa 11

On the subject of manual pass weight, I was playing online yesterday and trying to play a little pass back to the throw-in taker proved difficult, tapping the pass button would often boot the ball out due to it's pace. Maybe I'll try using manual through ball for those small passes then.

 

[nerf]

Re: Fifa 11

There was a pretty nice touch in-game with a little box dropping down from the scoreline and showing you stats like number of corners, or possession, or number of shots on goal etc. A bit like the WC2010 display for goal news flashes.

I like that.

I use Manual Through Ball for very short, soft lay-offs, it's much better than Manual Pass for that purpose. Obviously the weaker charge makes it possible to 'tap' a softer touch than the stronger-charged normal pass. If I want to play a long through ball, I'll use Pass.

 

[Nick Cave]

Re: Fifa 11

Personally
There was a pretty nice touch in-game with a little box dropping down from the scoreline and showing you stats like number of corners, or possession, or number of shots on goal etc. A bit like the WC2010 display for goal news flashes.

Not seen this as I passed over WC to not spoil 10 but this would be nice for popping up goals etc in CL league games to keep you up to date with how other group games are going on, it would also be nice to have it on the last three or four games of the season if you're in a relegation or promotion battle...

 

[Nick Cave]

Re: Fifa 11

Just had a thought it would be nice to see players being pulled from squads in the MM for the ANC and WC/Euro games too, this would be a nice touch and add to the realism especially if they got a knock on International duty...

 

[Rodelero]

Re: Fifa 11

Personally I'm not convinced manual ground pass is up to the task of simple 5 yard lay-offs diagonally back to an onrushing midfielder. It feels as though through balls hold up more on the turf, or are a naturally slower speed, and when I want that pass I much prefer triangle. X by contrast seems to lead to real inconsistencies between a lazy 'push' as Tobi mentions and a way overhit sidefoot of the ball. When you have to get the ball into a particular space at a particular time to hit a movin target while avoiding others, I feel the throughball is much, much better than X. I do have a lot more experience with it to be fair though.

I was kind of hoping somebody would suggest L2+X as a slower charged pass? With R1 being a curled ball or something. Or alternatively a manual toggle button for semi ground pass, much as PES is going for (and I suggested on here well over a year ago!)

Can you really use L2 for those things though? I mean, L2 isn't declared as a modifier for anything, is it - because obviously it actually changes the way you move. I know that you think it effects the long balls but I've never sensed that - and it's not stated in the control manual (and it seems everything else is).

RB for the curled ball is a good idea though. Personally I just think if a tapped X was slightly less powerful it would be fine. If anything, the throughballs should be the naturally more powerful one.

Placebo - I think it was in. Weirdly I can't remember one way or another! There was a pretty nice touch in-game with a little box dropping down from the scoreline and showing you stats like number of corners, or possession, or number of shots on goal etc. A bit like the WC2010 display for goal news flashes.

Finally.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Not seen this as I passed over WC to not spoil 10 but this would be nice for popping up goals etc in CL league games to keep you up to date with how other group games are going on, it would also be nice to have it on the last three or four games of the season if you're in a relegation or promotion battle...

Yeah, really hope it's in for league games, maybe also showing an 'as it stands' top 4 or bottom 4 (or around your league position). Would add a lot of tension to the back end of the season..

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Re: Fifa 11

@ Roma,

I've always said they should use the shot modifyers for long/short passing and crosses.

Seems a really logical step to me.

So with the 3 modifyers for shooting;
- Finesse
- Chip
- Driven (not sure if this is ingame or only for freekicks)

For passing it would be;
- Finesse is a very accurate and adds curl to the pass to get it round/over the defender (they have that auto now don't they?).
- Chip is dinks forward that are about waistheight to get past the defender without the possibility for curl. So Xavi-esque close passing but to make it harder for the defender to block the pass. More distance would make finesse the better option.
- Driven is what they have incorporated for 11.

Crossing;
- Finesse is again very accurate and a lot of curl but lacks pace.
- Chip is again a dink into the area.
- Driven is a hard/whipped in cross with less curl but more power.

Not sure about the chip versions (but then I hate it for shooting aswell) but the others are pretty decent variations to have control of imo.

Would be great if they could add the driven control to crossing aswell, or did that already work in the build you played? If it is they they are pretty close to having the variation for 11.

 

[Rodelero]

Re: Fifa 11

@ Roma,

I've always said they should use the shot modifyers for long/short passing and crosses.

Seems a really logical step to me.

So with the 3 modifyers for shooting;
- Finesse
- Chip
- Driven (not sure if this is ingame or only for freekicks)

For passing it would be;
- Finesse is a very accurate and adds curl to the pass to get it round/over the defender (they have that auto now don't they?).
- Chip is dinks forward that are about waistheight to get past the defender without the possibility for curl. So Xavi-esque close passing but to make it harder for the defender to block the pass. More distance would make finesse the better option.
- Driven is what they have incorporated for 11.

Crossing;
- Finesse is again very accurate and a lot of curl but lacks pace.
- Chip is again a dink into the area.
- Driven is a hard/whipped in cross with less curl but more power.

Not sure about the chip versions (but then I hate it for shooting aswell) but the others are pretty decent variations to have control of imo.

Would be great if they could add the driven control to crossing aswell, or did that already work in the build you played? If it is they they are pretty close to having the variation for 11.

Well, you can already kinda do a driven cross - just double tap cross.

 

[EatonTJ]

Re: Fifa 11

For a chipped cross there is obviously already the lobbed through ball, but isn't there also a LT modified cross? I've never used it in a match, but in the arena it looks like a scooped lob.

I assume this has already been mentioned by someone, but perhaps others (like me) don't know too much about it.

 

[Rodelero]

Re: Fifa 11

LT is odd when you cross. It's almost like it stops it being regarded by the game as a 'cross' in the normal sense. For instance, when holding LT, it does not automatically guide a cross towards the box when I'm using settings with crossing on semi and long-balls on manual. ie. If I stop my player, and point downfield in the crossing area, and press cross without LT, it will do a typical cross - but if I press cross with LT, it will punt the ball off field (in a similar way to how it would if I wasn't in the crossing area).

So actually, if anything, LT isn't a 'modifier' for a cross, it's more of an override. It seems to make the button have the same effect as if you are just doing a cross-field ball from anywhere else on the pitch. From an actual use perspective, it does essentially allow you to have a more looped cross - but it sticks a lot of backspin on (like the long balls) which makes it somewhat hard to use effectively I find.

The in-game 'help' file desccribes the crossing stats as such:
Cross: X (along with header, and lobbed pass)
Low Cross = XX
Ground Cross = XXX
Early Cross (any of the above + LB)

whether this list is exhaustive of course is debatable - but I tend to think it is. Some fairly obsure stuff which no-one uses (like driven/grounded corners) are in there - so I'd be surprised if they left out a modifier.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

I'm convinced that LT makes a subtle difference. Not so much for crosses but for long balls. The reasoning for that stems back to the LT scoop that flair players can do if you tap long pass. That seems to scale down for lesser players to just increasing the trajectory but reducing the speed of a normal long pass.

Edit: I'm sure I refreshed before posting this??

I have noticed that LT/L2 does seem to override the crossing lock, at least when you're in the more ambiguous positions. Maybe it does completely override but because I was pressing towards the box it just worked as normal?

Glen Cooley suggested in a round about way that the bouncing lob controls could be carried across to crossing the ball. Must admit I didn't try this as bouncing lob was still something I had to think to do, rather than an instinctive done-it-all-my-life weapon in my arsenal.



Edit2: Oh - and in case anyone was wondering - driven/grounded corners need one more button press than the manual says!

 

[EatonTJ]

Re: Fifa 11

LT is odd when you cross. It's almost like it stops it being regarded by the game as a 'cross' in the normal sense. For instance, when holding LT, it does not automatically guide a cross towards the box when I'm using settings with crossing on semi and long-balls on manual. ie. If I stop my player, and point downfield in the crossing area, and press cross without LT, it will do a typical cross - but if I press cross with LT, it will punt the ball off field (in a similar way to how it would if I wasn't in the crossing area).

So actually, if anything, LT isn't a 'modifier' for a cross, it's more of an override. It seems to make the button have the same effect as if you are just doing a cross-field ball from anywhere else on the pitch. From an actual use perspective, it does essentially allow you to have a more looped cross - but it sticks a lot of backspin on (like the long balls) which makes it somewhat hard to use effectively I find.

The in-game 'help' file desccribes the crossing stats as such:
Cross: X (along with header, and lobbed pass)
Low Cross = XX
Ground Cross = XXX
Early Cross (any of the above + LB)

whether this list is exhaustive of course is debatable - but I tend to think it is. Some fairly obsure stuff which no-one uses (like driven/grounded corners) are in there - so I'd be surprised if they left out a modifier.

I've also hardly used it, but try doing an extremely low powered LT + cross and I think it does a different animation. It's more of a scoop or lift (the foot stays under the ball lifting it high off the ground, instead of just kicking it up) when I've used it... not sure if this requires a 5* skill move player or some other high ball control stat.

I've only used it on accident in game or in the arena trying to mess around with it. I've not found it too useful as it's less accurate than a chip shot, which is already too effective.

 

[kouroux]

Re: Fifa 11

In my oppinion, there should be only one button for passing in general, and everybody should play manual. That would simplify things and make things more logical, as you can TRY a pass in a direction and a given power and stats try to simulate depending on the player. That would end all possible debate about it. Yep, it's hard to get used to manual, but there's no going back from it. Current fustration for many people is that they have a very easy alternative. I know I'm in the minority here and most of the people just want an easier way to play. But I love manualness and it's my oppinion!

And yes, in manual, the through pass right now takes ages to "charge" so I ended up playing everything with the manual pass, and when you master it, it works marvels and feels great.

I disagree,I mean I'm a 100% manual player but I don't think I'll ever find people playing the game offline if the passing is 100% manual for everyone.Manual is for the more hardcore fans and more patient players so that's why I don't think "casual" gamers should suffer from the difficulty.
EA would never realistically go for it anyway

 

[Rodelero]

Re: Fifa 11

I've also hardly used it, but try doing an extremely low powered LT + cross and I think it does a different animation. It's more of a scoop or lift (the foot stays under the ball lifting it high off the ground, instead of just kicking it up) when I've used it... not sure if this requires a 5* skill move player or some other high ball control stat.

I've only used it on accident in game or in the arena trying to mess around with it. I've not found it too useful as it's less accurate than a chip shot, which is already too effective.

Well there is the animation which can happen anywhere on the pitch - I presume this is the one you talk of. It happens whenever you use a very, very shot tap of lob - and again it doesn't require LT. It can only occur when moving very slowly (if at all) - which is why it seems LT is necessary - but when stopped you don't need LT.

http://www.easportsfootball.co.uk/media/play/video/23010785

That animation? (Listen for awesome sound effects).

I may be wrong and I'm only guessing from the various tests I can do myself, but I'm fairly sure that LT's only real effect is with movement - but because of the complex physics, the speed you are moving has a large effect on shooting, lobbing, and so on. Having said that the thing where it nullifies the assistance on crosses is a bit odd. Just my guess really... Unless EA (or the knowing ones) have any information to provide on this of course...

In my oppinion, there should be only one button for passing in general, and everybody should play manual. That would simplify things and make things more logical, as you can TRY a pass in a direction and a given power and stats try to simulate depending on the player. That would end all possible debate about it. Yep, it's hard to get used to manual, but there's no going back from it. Current fustration for many people is that they have a very easy alternative. I know I'm in the minority here and most of the people just want an easier way to play. But I love manualness and it's my oppinion!

It might simplify things for us but it sure as hell wouldn't for the assisted users. I sort of hold the same view to a differing degree - I don't personally think there would be a huge issue if the assists were removed, and the default was semi, semi, semi, semi, semi (ie, the creation of a semi throughball and longball would be necessary) (though obviously you could just call them all assisted rather than semi if assisted was to no longer exist). But, as with Koroux I think the chance that EA would implement your idea is 0, and, I actually think them making semi the norm is also never going to happen.

I think small steps is key - Pro Passing is a big step without doing what EA seems very scared to do - and that's make any large change to the general assisted-semi-manual setup - whilst they feel happy to make assisted radically harder!

 

[PU6HY]

Fifa 11

Just got sent off in clubs and have to watch rest of game. Hopefully EA will let us spectate games in future instead of having to just wait around in dressing room. Forza allows you to spectate a race while waiting so can't see why it can't be put into FIFA.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

I may just pull a complete 180 with L2 long passes. No idea why I was happy to say earlier in this or another thread that I thought L2+shoot = driven shot was a myth, while happily bleating about L2+long pass being different. Facepalms self.

As for assists, I think this year will be an adequate start in any shift across. I think the performance of PES's passing after a few months will shape FIFA 12. I'd like to see EA copy what I understand to be the premise for semi passing at least - the initial direction being mostly manual but with some curve and slight weighting tweaks applied to correct accordingly. The current semi could definitely be used as assisted, possibly including the swerve amendment to make it more user friendly.

Once the demos of both are out it should be a lot easier to gauge what steps could realistically be taken next.

 

[Rodelero]

Re: Fifa 11

I may just pull a complete 180 with L2 long passes. No idea why I was happy to say earlier in this or another thread that I thought L2+shoot = driven shot was a myth, while happily bleating about L2+long pass being different. Facepalms self.

Well, I think it's one of those things which we're never going to really know unless EA tell us. L2 certainly has effects in terms of composure - and I'm fairly sure if you press L2 when 'crossing' it won't actually 'cross' per se. It just has a marked similarity. The actual reason I was taking up this point is because I don't really think L2 can be (or is) used as a modifier for things, as some have suggested for the same reason R2 can't be a 'modifier'. Generally, if we want to have 'modifiers', we should do it with the available buttons, or multi-taps, which are LB and RB. So far, taken up are:

Shooting: LB, RB
Passing: LB
Lobs: LB (and now RB with the new pass type)
Crossing: x2, x3

Could you use multi-taps for everything? Well they aren't ideal - but they are probably the only other buttons available if further modifiers are necessary. Crossing and lobbing are slightly complex in that they swap between eachother contextually. A double tap shot could certainly be used - but I'm not sure whether there is much need. Passing certainly could do with a 'finesse' pass (perhaps only usable by the best players). Other than that, we're kind of down to using multi-tapping.

As for assists, I think this year will be an adequate start in any shift across. I think the performance of PES's passing after a few months will shape FIFA 12. I'd like to see EA copy what I understand to be the premise for semi passing at least - the initial direction being mostly manual but with some curve and slight weighting tweaks applied to correct accordingly. The current semi could definitely be used as assisted, possibly including the swerve amendment to make it more user friendly.

Would EA do that though? :p

PES's passing is the one thing which gives me considerable hope for PES this year. It's something unexpected, and something almost anti-PES philosophy in my mind - and for me that's what PES needed - to stop thinking that PES5 was best and to start moving forward.

Once the demos of both are out it should be a lot easier to gauge what steps could realistically be taken next.

Yes, we're at that difficult stage - probably the one stage of the year where it's kind of pointless to really push any hard feedback because it's too late for FIFA 11, and too early for FIFA 12 (in that we have no idea what the actual status quo will be - other than you guys who obviously have your Guildford feedback to give). It will, for a lot of things, probably be like a new-start cleansheet for feedback in many ways... hopefully at least with FIFA 11, I'll feel that we're providing feedback to improve something good rather than to fix something which is at the core broken.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

There's definitely going to be a lull in terms of feedback from the usual sources. Or at least there won't be the urgency to get it in to EA. You'll always get a sudden flurry of noobs who suddenly start posting about fixing bugs the rest of us spent the past 9 months reporting/new ideas that will never ever get into FIFA 11, but certainly the majority of useful posts will only be about tweaks.

I guess my point about changing assisted is that if PES can make semi passing work then it gives EA breathing room to make assisted harder without losing fans to the other side. Whether these buyers are just lost to the ether is another matter. But if both sides shift towards harder passing simultaneously then I'd wager the vast majority will most likely follow with little complaint, rather than drop out of football games entirely.

 

[Rodelero]

Re: Fifa 11

There's definitely going to be a lull in terms of feedback from the usual sources. Or at least there won't be the urgency to get it in to EA. You'll always get a sudden flurry of noobs who suddenly start posting about fixing bugs the rest of us spent the past 9 months reporting/new ideas that will never ever get into FIFA 11, but certainly the majority of useful posts will only be about tweaks.

You mean that people realised there was a problem with pressure before yesterday?

I guess my point about changing assisted is that if PES can make semi passing work then it gives EA breathing room to make assisted harder without losing fans to the other side. Whether these buyers are just lost to the ether is another matter. But if both sides shift towards harder passing simultaneously then I'd wager the vast majority will most likely follow with little complaint, rather than drop out of football games entirely.

Do EA follow that reasoning though. I'd be amazed if a single person thought that semi passing was prohibitively hard and decided to not get the game because of it - but EA seemed wary of even making changes to the default settings (ie, if you choose 'Experienced' when you start up game you no longer get assisted assisted semi assisted assisted).

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

It'll depend, probably, on the reaction FIFA 11 gets. If the passing difficulty proves popular and people ask for more, then they may do more. If PES is held up as a shining example of what football games can do with passing then that will do us a favour. Conversely, if FIFA gets a kicking for requiring some sort of user skill then it will be a dark day indeed. Remember that Gary's response to you in that thread was way, way back, before anything was announced. The more people clamour for a better passing system the better. He personally wants the sort of experience we're after but there's a lot of responsibility on his shoulders. He can only justify making semi (or an easier version of semi at least) the default passing system if he thinks it'll work for everyone.

Which is why I think the only real option is to accept that casuals and the hardcore can never truly sit well together - not across a spread of 10 million players - and accept that there will have to be a split of some sort.

Wouldn't it be cool to have a selection of tuned presets instead/alongside regular difficulty levels - all the way from arcadey physics to ultra hardcore simulation?

That's something our Technical Director of Gameplay Ben Carter is very keen on. He's putting in the patch system, and he feels the game is getting to the stage where people want to play it differently and there's just no way to please everyone. He's huge on that. We're doing a few things in that direction this year, but next year you'll definitely see more of it.

You mean that people realised there was a problem with pressure before yesterday?

Oh shhhhi.....