Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

Re: Fifa 11

That's encouraging, though there are difficulties with that too - developing at both ends simultaneously. The main thing is that if they -DID- do this they need to make sure that they put in the incentives and reasons for each playset to be played by a sizable amount of the population. The assist system is very similar to this - instead of a differing degree of realism you have a differing degree of freedom/difficulty - and it's caused an enormous split in the community and some of the game's biggest problems.

I'm not actually convinced of the need for it though. As FIFA has become more realistic its popularity has soared. I have never seen a single person on the forum actually oppose realism (though some have a warped view of what realism means.

Incidentally - do we know what "We're doing a few things in that direction this year" this refers to? I mean, other than the game-speed setting there is nothing like that in FIFA 10 or anything announced, is there?
 
Re: Fifa 11

Dunno. I don't think it means there are different modes, necessarily, but it might be about catering for people who play with manual controls - leaderboards and points bonuses, hopefully. Beyond that, I'd be surprised.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Re the button options,

Making the chipshot a doubletap (as you could back in the day with pes) frees up a modifyer to have a proper driven shot. I always felt that the double tap also felt more intuative for a chip shot as it has to be done very quickly and when you are "out of time".

As for the doubletap crossing, for me it still lacks the trajectory and power of a proper driven cross. Also it's mostly for the nearpost in my experience. A Beckham type cross is still really hard to do in the game.
 
Re: Fifa 11

I think power on crossing and shots is still far too low and by the sounds of the feedback it's the same in 11, I don't understand this as there is a fairly simple formula for working out just how hard a football can be hit...
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
That's something our Technical Director of Gameplay Ben Carter is very keen on. He's putting in the patch system, and he feels the game is getting to the stage where people want to play it differently and there's just no way to please everyone. He's huge on that. We're doing a few things in that direction this year, but next year you'll definitely see more of it.
Click to expand...

This is the new system for 11 that David Rutter mentioned post Fifa10 and its horrific amount of bugs which they "couldn't" fix because of the 2 patch limit™ and the patch size limit™ where he mentioned they will put in a system where some stuff can be fixed/improved without the need for a patch per se and instead it's a case of some numbers being adjusted, right? Anyways that long winded refresher out of the way, I'm wondering if it's been mentioned to you any of the kind of areas that this non-patching fix system will possibly be able to address?
 
Re: Fifa 11

No, I'm only going by what Gary said in that interview and a few very subtle hints I picked up in Canada. It wasn't an extensive rundown of everything the patch system does, or even an official proclamation of what they're planning to do.
 
Re: Fifa 11

SJP76 said:
Just got sent off in clubs and have to watch rest of game. Hopefully EA will let us spectate games in future instead of having to just wait around in dressing room. Forza allows you to spectate a race while waiting so can't see why it can't be put into FIFA.
Click to expand...

Is Clubs still worth playing?
 
Re: Fifa 11

klashman69 said:
Is Clubs still worth playing?
Click to expand...

I play it on PS3. Been going pretty strong for 2 years now.

It can be infuriating at times but when you come up against decent opponents, some of the football we play is really enjoyable. Just varies it up from 1v1ing all the time. Pro-passing should get rid of some of the worst things encountered when playing against gimp teams too.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Here it is - Part 2! Drink it down.

DRIBBLING
Do certain players dribble one footed?
No. It won't be in this FIFA I'm afraid. Make a big thing of it in my suggestions thread and I'll pass it across. I'm probably going to hold off on sending stuff to EA because I don't think this is the best time to send stuff over. It's too late for something as big as this to be implemented but too soon for EA to give such suggestions their full attention.

Is it easier to beat your man?
Might want to rephrase that..
Yes. When I was in Canada I was quite concerned about being able to judge the game because the responsiveness of players was pretty awful (FIFA 08 levels) and there was a pretty frequent bug with the trapping where players would just watch the ball roll timidly past them. Knowing that the shielding wasn't really in, the dribbling wasn't working and the positioning was too squashed in made judging how easy it was to retain possession very difficult.

It was the last hour or two of the whole week, when I got to play a much newer, tighter build of FIFA 11, that I felt a lot more confident about the game. The dribbling responsiveness went from being somewhere between FIFA 08/09 to being a tiny smidge better than WC2010. I was delighted with this and I'm sure owners of EA's most recent football title will be as well.

I'm a big fan of Serbia and Croatia in the WC game. Croatia are fairly lightweight and not particularly quick, but technically very proficient and with a formation that lends itself to passing triangles. Serbia are a lot more rigid and conventional with two banks of four, a dangerous right winger and a big target man. Both sides have a very wide spread of dribbling ability, meaning I'm encouraged to take people on with Krasic far more than Zigic, while Modric or Krancjar are both wonderful at retaining possession under pressure.

Needless to say, FIFA 11 develops on this. Weaker dribblers are far slower at turning now (see my comments in Part 1 about Accrington Stanley), while the most agile movers like Lennon and Modric are perhaps slightly more nimble than in the World Cup game. It might sound like this isn't enough, but the point is not that the dribbling was insufficiently effective in WC, but that the tackling ability of players was still too good (even though it was taken down a fair bit from FIFA 10). FIFA 11's reaction to this has been the tackling coverage changes and the fact that defenders can't just barge attackers and take the ball away.

I've not even touched on the 'close touch' dribbling given players like Robben, Messi, Arshavin etc. In truth I didn't play as the relevant sides a whole lot. I used lesser sides far more frequently. I did, however, set up a quick test match against the CPU with me as Barca and I just gave the ball to Messi every time, dribbling up and down the flank to try him out. He certainly can rip fullbacks up now if used properly. The close control running means that you can actually sprint at men with the ball rather than having to jog, which is a significant asset for a player to have.

Will it be game breaking? No. I don't think so. You don't just get a free ride through. It's going to have to be a tactical consideration to try and shut him out via double teaming and man marking, as Greece did in reality.



Oh, and there's an attribute-based dribbling move that doesn't use the right stick. La Croqueta, as loved by Iniesta.

Stop calling it Spanish things! It's the Beardsley Shimmy!

It's like one of the more drastic ones he does. Tap sideways and then forwards. It's awesome when you successfully pull it off.



DEFENCE
Have the defensive lines been fixed yet?
I didn't see a single problem. Apparently Adam from WENB did? But I genuinely didn't have any issues here at all. Defending was an absolute joy compared to FIFA 10 or WC. It feels like you're defending as a unit, rather than fighting against your own side. It was a real joy to behold as someone who loves defending and was pissed off at how often a full back would kill my offside line in the past couple of games. Being able to play as a lesser, yet defensively organised side, is finally feasible without people just passing diagonally into the striker and getting a free shot against my will.

I do wonder whether Adam was pressuring with his centre backs which meant the sprinted up from their defensive line while the full bakcs carried on, giving the impression of a FIFA 10 style dodgy back line. It's hard to say without having seen what he's seen. But to be fair Adam did make a point of saying he found defending was far more solid and reliable than in the past.

Is Jockeying more effective?
I've always found jockeying to be effective. The problem IMO is that pressuring was always more effective, while also being far easier!

Again, I'd say that jockeying and structured, organise defending is a lot more attainable than before. Pressuring still needs reining in - I said as much in my feedback form - but I've always been someone who tries to keep a rigid formation and defends quite narrowly to stop people slipping through the middle and this seemed much easier to do becausse everyone who was on my side felt like they were doing their job.

I did have some issues with jockeying that I fed back, as if I was fighting momentum more than I should have been when moving in particular directions. This is something that I flagged as needing to be fixed. On the whole though defending intelligently felt a lot easier.

Player Switching - does the defender stutter?
I didn't notice it as much. Not saying it was gone but it didn't seem as regular as before. The nature of the game's new pacing meant that it was more forgiving of issues like this.

I think I answered this somewhere in the forum already but for some reason the Evo-Web forums seem to be locking up at the moment - is it just me? I may come back and edit this when I don't just get a white screen!

Do you have to intercept passes more manually?

I've looked at my Q&A notes I made on the train ride back. I put 'Yes'. That's helpful for typing it up a month later!!

In WC2010 there was an issue where your player might be forced to receive/intercept a pass at a certain point, even if the intercept point is much further down the line and you will never get the ball compared to moving in the direction you wanted and trapping the ball. This issue is gone - you intercept the ball at the point in the ball's path you point at.

That said, your team mates are much more proactive in shutting out loose passes. FIFA 10 was rife with slow passes trickling past your team mates when they could blatantly just step out of their trance and control the ball. FIFA 11 addresses this too, even tying a stat to it (apparently!).

-----------
ANY DOUBTS/NIGGLES?
- Sideways/backwards passing inaccuracy at the lowest levels could do with stepping up a bit more. As I said in Part 1, the moment the pass tends to be slower and bouncier, but still a bit more directionally on target than I'd like. To be fair, first touch control wasn't in just yet, so that may contribute.

- Pressing is still a bit much, though we did find we were getting pretty good at making our own space towards the end of the day.

-Until the above two are fixed, personality will be slightly hampered.

- Stamina hadn't been fixed yet - but apparently it's going to be.

- Some running animations are a bit odd. I assume it was glitchy as it wasn't all that consistent, but at times a few players almost seemed like they were riding a bike! I flagged this up as something that, if it isn't a bug, will get a bit of a kicking on the forums. I'm pretty sure it was though.

- There's no way you'd expect to be able to tell from such a brief play, but once we have the game in our consoles it'll be interesting to see, if you can feel more subtle differences between similar players - will you be able to tell the difference between Barry and Carrick, for example.

- The only slight, but still present, doubt I have left is whether what we've played will represent the final title. Most of the people who went along last year will tell you that the FIFA 10 that was released was very different from the much slower, more realistic game they played. I'm very confident that the class of 2010 won't be stitched up as well; EA got a lot of stick for doing this, and for releasing an arcadey game after promising a sim. If EA do end up turning the game into something far more arcadey then it'll be a real shoe in the throat and I won't be interested in wasting any more of my own time with FIFA 12/13 etc. However I really can't see them doing it twice in a row given how horrifically it backfired last year. The reason EA invited us round so early this year (and for a week, not just a weekend) was precisely because they were extremely keen on getting our feedback and advice.

HAPPY THOUGHTS

- The game speed was perfect. Normal is what we've been asking Slow to be for ages.

- Defensive AI is leaps and bounds above 09/10/WC. Rock solid, as long as you are.

- Passing (in)accuracy and pace feels incredible, particularly at Premiership and Championship levels. When even Barcelona have passing inaccuracy, you know it's not a cheap gimmick!

- Crossing and heading feels utterly nailed on. Perfect sense of threat and excitement.

- The bouncing lob will be terrific once you get used to it being an option!

- It genuinely feels much more emotionally involving to play. Everything feels like a struggle, a competitive battle, like you're playing at the edge of your ability. When you score, you feel a lot more like celebrating than the dispassionate 'meh' of FIFA 10. I know this is something that was promised last year, but I did genuinely feel that way.

- You need to weight through balls. I tried a cheap and dirty cutback using assisted through ball and I put too much on it, missing a very easy chance (there weren't any defenders!).

- Generally speaking, it feels like a game pretty devoid of fuck ups. FIFA 10 and WC2010 were so enraging precisely because goals you conceded almost always felt like they weren't your fault. It'd feel like there was an enjoyable experience in there somewhere but it was agonisingly out of reach behind this semi-transparent film of exploitable glitches and gameplay bugs that took matters out of your hands.

- I wrote in my notes, "Assisted isn't a fucking disgrace anymore". You'll be able to play with assisted controls and feel a shred of dignity, like an old man who has regained control of his bowels and has ceremoniously dowsed his incontinence pants in petrol and cast them into the fire. I still don't see it as anything like as good as semi or manual controls in terms of enjoyability, but at least it feels like I can play against it!

OVERALL

Dead chuffed at it's progress in just a year (and including the WC game in that schedule!). It's amazing to see so many of Evo-Web's suggestions manifested in the next edition of FIFA. As I've said before, I'm not just interested in FIFA for the next game, but for the game after that as well. Some of the ideas we come up with, and the general rehabilitation of FIFA after it's arcadey FIFA 09/10 relapse, need to span over more than one release. But I feel that FIFA 11 is much more than just a platform to build on. In it's current form it's a damn good game in it's own right. It looks very similar to FIFA 10/WC graphically, but in terms of gameplay it's so much more than just a tweak. EA haven't rested on their laurels at all.

It answers a lot of our cries for a deeper footballing experience by overhauling physicality to be much more even handed, completely reworking it's attribute system, returning the pace of the game to FIFA 08 levels and listening to you hardcore football game fans who actually think about gameplay rather than boots or ankle tape. I bloody salute you lot.

When FIFA 11 comes out we'll undoubtedly find issues and niggles, as will be the case for any game where so many different people with different tastes and ideals crave perfection from one title. My personal opinion though - and I'm probably jinxing it now - is that (touch wood) a lot of the things we'll want to improve after a few months of play will be much more about improving the game, rather than fixing it. That's a very positive thing for those of us who want a great game that'll last them all year, and a particularly big plus for those of us who are full to bursting with ideas and suggestions and don't want EA to have to commit so much time to mending broken gameplay.

Roll on July 22nd for the next big release of news!
 
Last edited:
Re: Fifa 11

and now I understand why it took you so long to pluck up the courage to write part 2.

romagnoli said:
I wrote in my notes, "Assisted isn't a fucking disgrace anymore". You'll be able to play with assisted controls and feel a shred of dignity, like an old man who has regained control of his bowels and has ceremoniously dowsed his incontinence pants in petrol and cast them into the fire. I still don't see it as anything like as good as semi or manual controls in terms of enjoyability, but at least it feels like I can play against it!
Click to expand...

Assisted isn't a fucking disgrace anymore... :SHOCK:
 
Re: Fifa 11

Rodelero said:
and now I understand why it took you so long to pluck up the courage to write part 2.



Assisted isn't a fucking disgrace anymore... :SHOCK:
Click to expand...

That's right. You have no idea how drunk I had to get to write that. Hopefully I'll still feel that way when the finished product is out.

Drunk, that is.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Rodelero said:
Well there is the animation which can happen anywhere on the pitch - I presume this is the one you talk of. It happens whenever you use a very, very shot tap of lob - and again it doesn't require LT. It can only occur when moving very slowly (if at all) - which is why it seems LT is necessary - but when stopped you don't need LT.

http://www.easportsfootball.co.uk/media/play/video/23010785

That animation? (Listen for awesome sound effects).

I may be wrong and I'm only guessing from the various tests I can do myself, but I'm fairly sure that LT's only real effect is with movement - but because of the complex physics, the speed you are moving has a large effect on shooting, lobbing, and so on. Having said that the thing where it nullifies the assistance on crosses is a bit odd. Just my guess really... Unless EA (or the knowing ones) have any information to provide on this of course...



It might simplify things for us but it sure as hell wouldn't for the assisted users. I sort of hold the same view to a differing degree - I don't personally think there would be a huge issue if the assists were removed, and the default was semi, semi, semi, semi, semi (ie, the creation of a semi throughball and longball would be necessary) (though obviously you could just call them all assisted rather than semi if assisted was to no longer exist). But, as with Koroux I think the chance that EA would implement your idea is 0, and, I actually think them making semi the norm is also never going to happen.

I think small steps is key - Pro Passing is a big step without doing what EA seems very scared to do - and that's make any large change to the general assisted-semi-manual setup - whilst they feel happy to make assisted radically harder!
Click to expand...


Yup, that's the animation... doesn't require LT? Well, I'll be damned.
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
That's right. You have no idea how drunk I had to get to write that. Hopefully I'll still feel that way when the finished product is out.

Drunk, that is.
Click to expand...

Thanks alot for your time and efforts Romagnoli. I enjoyed reading your thoughts, and I am psyched to get more info about the game as we slowly get to October.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Great read. I have the same fears, that we end up with a "lighter" product once we get the final copy. And hope skill finally makes it into the game above strength, pace and everythign else. Now we only need to see players miscarrying the ball at full sprint, or doing occasional bad touches.

By the way, I asked once or twice if there was anything new about TRAPPING THE BALL. Is there anything about it? I mean, I don't want my Accrington Stanley Center Back to perfectly control the ball with just one touch and perfect precision.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Fuck you and your excellent writing skills. Make me want the game and shit :(

Even though I'll probably hate it :LOL:
 
Re: Fifa 11

drekkard said:
Great read. I have the same fears, that we end up with a "lighter" product once we get the final copy. And hope skill finally makes it into the game above strength, pace and everythign else. Now we only need to see players miscarrying the ball at full sprint, or doing occasional bad touches.

By the way, I asked once or twice if there was anything new about TRAPPING THE BALL. Is there anything about it? I mean, I don't want my Accrington Stanley Center Back to perfectly control the ball with just one touch and perfect precision.
Click to expand...

The first touch stuff wasn't fully in yet (it kind of was, but it wasn't yet dependent on the speed of the ball yet). However, there was the thing I said in Part 1 (I think) where, for example, you couldn't take a ball in a ridiculous direction first time. You won't see anything like players letting the ball run under their foot or anything drastic like that - EA worry about crossing a line between simulation and keeping things enjoyable - but I did notice that players at lesser clubs felt more like the direction they moved was being determined by the ball as much as by me.
 
Re: Fifa 11

does anyoone know how playing on full manual will affect Pro passing?
will player ability still affect passing as much as it would on assisted or semi?
 
Re: Fifa 11

EatonTJ said:
Yup, that's the animation... doesn't require LT? Well, I'll be damned.
Click to expand...

Well, it seems to only possibly happen when you are moving very slowly - if that makes sense. LT doesn't cause it, but it is dependent on not moving fast (and tapping it very slightly). I managed it in the arena (that video) without pressing LT. I'd always previously used LT when trying to use it - but it was only when I really thought about it that I doubted it would be a modifier per se, as LT is really a speed modifier not an action modifier.
 
Re: Fifa 11

football_fan said:
does anyoone know how playing on full manual will affect Pro passing?
will player ability still affect passing as much as it would on assisted or semi?
Click to expand...

Romagnoli's signature: "In FIFA 11, Semi and Manual passing both have attribute-based error". ;)

So they will be affected equally regardless of your preferred assist level.
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
Here it is - Part 2! Drink it down.



Oh, and there's an attribute-based dribbling move that doesn't use the right stick. La Croqueta, as loved by Iniesta.

Stop calling it Spanish things! It's the Beardsley Shimmy!

It's like one of the more drastic ones he does. Tap sideways and then forwards. It's awesome when you successfully pull it off.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that write up Roma! I'm really excited by this small detail - this has been in Pro Evo for ages (the BF Fake) and I've been waiting for Fifa to finally put it in! With all the big changes I didn't necessarily expect something small like this to make it in :)
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
The first touch stuff wasn't fully in yet (it kind of was, but it wasn't yet dependent on the speed of the ball yet). However, there was the thing I said in Part 1 (I think) where, for example, you couldn't take a ball in a ridiculous direction first time. You won't see anything like players letting the ball run under their foot or anything drastic like that - EA worry about crossing a line between simulation and keeping things enjoyable - but I did notice that players at lesser clubs felt more like the direction they moved was being determined by the ball as much as by me.
Click to expand...

Oh, I misunderstood something then. I thought "first touch" was specifically a first touch pass, not the actua,l process of controlling the oncoming ball. Now it makes more sense. Thanks.

I'm sure EA won't go as far as we all would like to, but that's because our expectacions are too high and we are too hardcore-minded compared to majorityof the population.

But, I can't shake the feeling we're always doing "baby steps" with this franchise. Baby steps to stats-based things, baby steps to solid shooting physics, baby steps to a decent defense line...

YouTube - What About Bob.mov

:COAT:
 
Re: Fifa 11

The thing is you can't realistically expect a football game to turn from one thing to the other overnight. The steps FIFA has been taking so far are much more than baby steps. Every next gen FIFA has made massive strides in terms of the technology behind it, even if the end product feels like it has made less progress. 360 dribbling is a much bigger achievement than people give it credit for - look at PES's failed attempt last year and look at how buggy the rest of FIFA 10 was, presumably due to the resource devoted to getting 360 dribbling working. It's also clear just how ridiculously hard it is to keep a football game authentic AND balanced AND fun AND different from past year's title. A lot of people commented that the passing in WC2010 felt much better than in FIFA 10. I asked EA what they did exactly; they said they didn't touch passing at all. If a game can feel wildly different when you've changed nothing then you can see how difficult it is to balance a full game!

That said I do think FIFA 11 is much more than a baby step in terms of what we want - it has developed in so many areas, almost all of which we (including you, Drek - shielding the ball while moving was a big gripe of yours) specifically requested. The problem is it's stepping away from FIFA 10, which was nothing like what we wanted.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Trance_Allstar said:
Romagnoli's signature: "In FIFA 11, Semi and Manual passing both have attribute-based error". ;)

So they will be affected equally regardless of your preferred assist level.
Click to expand...

ah cheers mate...i missed it, but u pointed it out for me, it slightly worried me it didnt, i guess it will reward you more on manual in the sense that the error it does have, if your good that is will be less than on semi or manual . i will assume
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
The thing is you can't realistically expect a football game to turn from one thing to the other overnight. The steps FIFA has been taking so far are much more than baby steps. Every next gen FIFA has made massive strides in terms of the technology behind it, even if the end product feels like it has made less progress. 360 dribbling is a much bigger achievement than people give it credit for - look at PES's failed attempt last year and look at how buggy the rest of FIFA 10 was, presumably due to the resource devoted to getting 360 dribbling working. It's also clear just how ridiculously hard it is to keep a football game authentic AND balanced AND fun AND different from past year's title. A lot of people commented that the passing in WC2010 felt much better than in FIFA 10. I asked EA what they did exactly; they said they didn't touch passing at all. If a game can feel wildly different when you've changed nothing then you can see how difficult it is to balance a full game!

That said I do think FIFA 11 is much more than a baby step in terms of what we want - it has developed in so many areas, almost all of which we (including you, Drek - shielding the ball while moving was a big gripe of yours) specifically requested. The problem is it's stepping away from FIFA 10, which was nothing like what we wanted.
Click to expand...

How can you possibly explain the improvement and difficulty increase for ground passes then ?
 
Re: Fifa 11

kouroux said:
How can you possibly explain the improvement and difficulty increase for ground passes then ?
Click to expand...

That's the point - the passing in WC2010 felt much better than in FIFA 10 but they hadn't touched them. Any difference to passing comes from other aspects of the game changing.

Balancing a game as complex as a football title is bloody tricky. A perfectly balanced title (talking theoretically now) is such a delicate thing because slight changes one way or the other, by definition, make it imbalanced.

Konami managed to get as close as either side ever has with PES5, but as soon as they upgraded to the next gen the shake-up to the system was so drastic that they still haven't put the pieces back together properly. The only way they could balance the game last year was by breaking the responsiveness so that you had so little control over the players that you couldn't exploit the same old gaps, but even then it meant that people could use this against their opponent by sprint whoring.

I have pretty high hopes for PES 2011, but part of me can't help but feel there will be some teething problems stemming from the new found freedom. The cynic in me expects there to be a fair few exploits the first time round, which will hopefully be patched soon enough, or otherwise will not be fixed until PES 2012. It'll be an extremely impressive achievement if Konami manage to perfectly balance a completely new style of football game first time round.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Lots of things could effect that. Changes in how the AI receive, and attempt to intercept passes. Changes in how the opponent AI moves so they are more likely to get in the way, and more likely to intercept. Things are rarely as simple as they seem in FIFA. Often the reasons are a lot more obscure than the obvious.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Yup. I also think the passes themselves may actually 'feel' better partly because of the improved pitch texture giving the impression the ball is actually reacting with something. It's easier for the brain to process as a football on a pitch. Sounds pretty unorthodox I know!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom