Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

[Wilko22]

Re: Fifa 11

There was on clip where he'd flicked the ball over the keeper, had an open goal and defenders behind him, then decided to do a half-roulette thing... Says it all really. Style over substance.

I personally find it difficult to do most tricks, I can do the odd step-over and the other simple stuff.

You can't really take the tricks out the game, I mean most of these things have been done in real football, but the frequency is obviously much lower in real-life because of the risk of losing the ball carelessly.

So I think there needs to be a greater margin for error with the tricks somehow. Maybe it could be based on the pressure imposed on the player. If you're under pressure, there is a 25% chance of pulling of a trick flawlessly instead of a 75% chance when not under pressure. Higher percentage for more skillful players. I don't know, I haven't thought it through fully, but it needs to be.

Edit: I also think individual skills should only be available to players who have performed them before, if they perform a new trick on a Saturday, then add it in afterwards. But don't just give skillful players every trick in the book.

 

[klashman69]

Re: Fifa 11

The problem with it is you don't see goals like some of that complete bollocks in real life. Unrealistic = Bullshit to me.

Luckily I haven't come across many who do constant tricks like that but even watching it annoys the hell out of me. Cartoon bullshit!

I still pray the passing is what I expect it to be after reading roman's posts.

Like i said, if you look at the video in the last page, you will have come across many players like that but they wouldn't have been very effective vs someone who can play the game.

 

[kouroux]

Re: Fifa 11

My biggest problems with the tricks is that there is no proper way to defend against them specially if the trick is about getting the ball over your head (rainbow flick and co).Defenders in real life react instantly, back off, try to jump.That's my main problem.
Same thing when you're facing a guy doing step-overs, the game doesn't give you the tools to fight those tricksters.If defending was better and tougher then pulling them tricks off would be a great feeling as I share klashman's view that they're too easy to perform.

 

[gameklip]

Re: Fifa 11

I've not come up againsta trickster really. You can see them coming from a mile off when they try them anyways. In those coases I just back off and they finish the trick, running straight into my defender. I understand the concern for tricksters but you can't blame EA. These tricks are being pulled off by 5star "Ball Skill" players. The Ronaldo's, Kaka's and Robinho's of this world can pull these things off in real life so they wouldn't want to hinder the player in that way. It's actually pretty balanced with the "Ball Skill" stars. For me they need to sort out the defending so that you aren't as vulnerable to these tricks unless you have an weak defender.

Anyways, I saw this on the EA forums:

I can confirm that if you received the email detailing the date changes then yes, you are booked in and confirmed. We are almost full in London but the other venues still have a few places left. Once full I will close registration for that centre.

Dont forget that on the original dates of the tour we are running a special FIFA 10 tournament in each venue (apart from London). It costs £5 to enter and the winner will get some prizes including a pre-release copy of FIFA 11 direct from mr wride.

Those attending the competition will be rewarded on the tour too by having first access to the game at the beginning of the event.

To register for the tournament, visit here http://www.gamerbase.com/?a=post&id=72429

So check your emails I guess. I got in.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Not without having gameplay sliders, you can't [make an ultra sim], no. FIFA 12 is extremely likely to go down the slider route though given what Gary said in that interview with C&VG. That's when you can get to the point where the game can even become too much of a sim...

Seriously, too much emphasis is being placed on the likelihood of those sorts of players leaving. Where would they go? who would watch their videos if they kept on playing FIFA 10? The vast majority of the players who play FIFA 10 would not even blink if they played FIFA 11. Not because they're identical - far from it - but they're utterly oblivious to gameplay. They'll just play whatever, just as there were people who moved from PES 6 to PES 2008 and 9 and didn't grimace once. They're just playing a game.

EA have made a point of shifting the whole game way over in our direction, specifically saying while we were in Canada that with their current changes they'd rather people learnt how to play proper football than continue to use cheap exploits willy nilly.

Besides which, Wepeeler was one of the people who came to Canada, and he was very happy to see the game become more of a sim. He specifically complained about free kicks being too easy and that, 'sure it looks great to score them in his videos', but he'd much prefer it to be a real challenge as in real life.

 

[Wilko22]

Re: Fifa 11

Is there any error at all in the current tricks system, other than kicking the ball into your backside when trying the double-flick rainbow thing? I can't think of any and even the almighty Ronaldo steps on the ball occasionally.

 

[stilts1844]

Re: Fifa 11

Is there any error at all in the current tricks system, other than kicking the ball into your backside when trying the double-flick rainbow thing? I can't think of any and even the almighty Ronaldo steps on the ball occasionally.

There is 0 error on tricks now, and it's been one of the thing's I've been praying they add to the game to balance tricks - the star system is great for choosing what tricks the player has the ability to do - but then dribble stats should decide how often those tricks go awry, or at least how far the ball gets away from the feet as a result of the trick.

ie. the rainbow flick - if you get it right the ball goes EXACTLY the same distance every time, obviously in real life it would sometimes go shorter, longer, a little to the left or a little to the right - as of now you get it right you automatically get it perfect, which is ridiculous.

 

[kouroux]

Re: Fifa 11

There is 0 error on tricks now, and it's been one of the thing's I've been praying they add to the game to balance tricks - the star system is great for choosing what tricks the player has the ability to do - but then dribble stats should decide how often those tricks go awry, or at least how far the ball gets away from the feet as a result of the trick.

ie. the rainbow flick - if you get it right the ball goes EXACTLY the same distance every time, obviously in real life it would sometimes go shorter, longer, a little to the left or a little to the right - as of now you get it right you automatically get it perfect, which is ridiculous.

So true and it's a pity to be honest.

 

[klashman69]

Re: Fifa 11

Seriously, too much emphasis is being placed on the likelihood of those sorts of players leaving. Where would they go? who would watch their videos if they kept on playing FIFA 10? The vast majority of the players who play FIFA 10 would not even blink if they played FIFA 11. Not because they're identical - far from it - but they're utterly oblivious to gameplay. They'll just play whatever, just as there were people who moved from PES 6 to PES 2008 and 9 and didn't grimace once. They're just playing a game.

The difference is i think, that hypesrth has spawned these youtube players and these players live to play this game like that, if they find skills aren't as effective on 11 vs others, what are going to put in their videos? Since there are so many of them doing it and it's help EA financially since other people like these videos buy the game and try to copy.

Just trying to look at the whole picture if the new call of duty black ops game turned out to play like rainbow six? I can't see the youtube starts adapting . Thats my point and finacially this won't help since unfortunately this is how gamers are these days, the care more about style over substance

also i'm sure hypesth whatever was involved with he development of 09 and 10! Did you see a young Norwegian kit on your trip romi?

The question was the dilemma posed to EA about this, will they tone down the sim tweaks they have implemented for these players?
I hope not, with FIFA 08 the two arcadey and sim styles co existed together well since you could counter cheap play with proper tactics

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

The point is that trick videos would still exist, but the prevalence of tricks in game would reduce significantly. Hjerpseth has an appalling win ratio as it is, also getting friends to play him and run away so he can get a free ride on goal.

More pertinently I'm pretty sure EA are eager to move away from pleasing the style over substance crowd precisely because they want to maintain their dominance at the top. If they please the hardcore then they get much more substantive feedback to help them improve their game. If they just please the arcade crowd then they are far more likely to peak and then fade away. This has been the thinking with inviting a number of hardcore FIFA community members to their events.

Incidentally I guess it was missed among the past 30 pages or so but EA have put further error into rainbow flicks this year and have asked their database guys to give out trick ratings far more appropriately, so Agbonlahor won't be a world class trickster. I've also gone into a lot of detail about why it'll be a lot easier to defend against tricksters and uncreative, bot-like players. One thing I will say is that I strongly recommend you learn how to dribble in WC2010. If you can do that then you're well placed for FIFA 11 which will be further improved by things like close dribbling, dribbling while 'bounced' and less universally effective tackling coverage.

 

[Wilko22]

Re: Fifa 11

Love the dribbling in WC2010 no tricks required and it can be so effective, the variety in methods of dribbling are great and can be used to create a small change of pace to beat a defender, or to find that little bit of extra space for a pass. I wouldn't say it's underrated, but it's really not praised enough in my opinion.

 

[klashman69]

Re: Fifa 11

The point is that trick videos would still exist, but the prevalence of tricks in game would reduce significantly. Hjerpseth has an appalling win ratio as it is, also getting friends to play him and run away so he can get a free ride on goal.

He says he shares his account, but he was complaining about losing to 'cheap' chipped goals just a few weeks after playing the game. Why can't his friends just play unranked? He's a kid but he not got the right idea in terms of developing the game, he cares more about himself and what he wants to do rather than playing proper football.

Remember back in the tricks thread i made to call for FIFA to individually assign tricks the players for the benefit of individuallity, he spent the whole time making petty excuses for the game lacking reaslim and pointing to stuff like the tele cam view

More pertinently I'm pretty sure EA are eager to move away from pleasing the style over substance crowd precisely because they want to maintain their dominance at the top. If they please the hardcore then they get much more substantive feedback to help them improve their game. If they just please the arcade crowd then they are far more likely to peak and then fade away

The story of PES6 to PES 2008, right there!

This has been the thinking with inviting a number of hardcore FIFA community members to their events.

Incidentally I guess it was missed among the past 30 pages or so but EA have put further error into rainbow flicks this year and have asked their database guys to give out trick ratings far more appropriately, so Agbonlahor won't be a world class trickster.

Thank god, who suggested he was a trickster in the first place!

I've also gone into a lot of detail about why it'll be a lot easier to defend against tricksters and uncreative, bot-like players. One thing I will say is that I strongly recommend you learn how to dribble in WC2010. If you can do that then you're well placed for FIFA 11 which will be further improved by things like close dribbling, dribbling while 'bounced' and less universally effective tackling coverage.

PES 5 and seemingly PES 2011 from the videos seem to the the 'premier' tackling system imo, hold the x button down constantly you will close down your opponent and hassle him, but 19 times out of 20 you will commit a foul. the most effective way of tackling needs to be a timed press of the 'tackle' button like in PES 5, mistime and again you will commit a foul. Attributes should play a big factor of course so i'd expect hardworking strikers such as Olic and Klose to commit many 'strikers tackles',

Also will there be cards for persistent fouling (same player commits 7-8 fouls?) I'm sure you have suggested this anyway but again, just sharing more.

 

[nerf]

Re: Fifa 11

That guy KSAOdjabet whatever look at him here vs a man who admit's he's an average player who doesn't use skills:

Spoiler

YouTube - KSIOlajidebt vs Antoholland: Arsenal vs Spain ft Van Persie, Fabregas, Torres & Villa FIFA 10 Sports

Is that NHL 10 they're playing?

 

[klashman69]

Re: Fifa 11

Is that NHL 10 they're playing?

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

It's horrifically fast. Thank Christ they've fixed that.

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

Incidentally I guess it was missed among the past 30 pages or so but EA have put further error into rainbow flicks this year and have asked their database guys to give out trick ratings far more appropriately, so Agbonlahor won't be a world class trickster. I've also gone into a lot of detail about why it'll be a lot easier to defend against tricksters and uncreative, bot-like players. One thing I will say is that I strongly recommend you learn how to dribble in WC2010. If you can do that then you're well placed for FIFA 11 which will be further improved by things like close dribbling, dribbling while 'bounced' and less universally effective tackling coverage.

That's a good start, but they really have to add error to all tricks, so you could potentially lose control off the ball. Not scripted though, what happens have to be dynamic. For example accidentally touch the ball while doing a bunch of step overs. This would shift the tricks from "FIFA Street" to a more realistic working system.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Fully agree. Klash started up a thread about tricks and I said exactly that. Rainbow flicks is a start, but it needs to be extended out. I want to see flips that don't flap etc. At the moment it's 360 spins and rainbows and that's it.

 

[klashman69]

Re: Fifa 11

Fully agree. Klash started up a thread about tricks and I said exactly that. Rainbow flicks is a start, but it needs to be extended out. I want to see flips that don't flap etc. At the moment it's 360 spins and rainbows and that's it.

Yes, and they should fail in context to 'surprise, surprise' attributes, composure and context of their position.

A good example is Drogba a player who likes to try tricks but his technique isn't as consistent as some of the top players, so there should be maybe even as high as a 25% chance if he tries any trick more advanced than a step over of feint it could fail.

Ratface who when your 3-0 up and cruising and with a few goals under his belt will be able to perform tricks with say 90-95% efficiency but when losing 1-0 in a tight game and put under pressure should see that efficiency drop to 50% 50% even

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Re: Fifa 11

One thing that I really dislike, and I'm not sure if it is in WC2010 or FIFA 11 still, but in the video posted above:

YouTube - KSIOlajidebt vs Antoholland: Arsenal vs Spain ft Van Persie, Fabregas, Torres & Villa FIFA 10 Sports

At 0:54 a player gets the ball on the edge of the pitch, and he crosses the ball. The way that player accelerates into a full sprint immediately after receiving the pass is really bad. He receives the ball angled a bit to his side, almost strafing, and from this position he just snaps into a sprint as if he has a harness and 10 guys pull him forward. This behavior when receiving passes is also what gives the video it's speedy appearance. Also check out the 90+ degree turn at 0:43. If you did that with a defender or player who doesn't have the ball, they would lean to the side and brace with their legs to push themselves in the new direction, and they would loose speed. But when a player with the ball does it, they again seem like they are being pushed by an invisible force. In fact it should be slightly more troublesome for a player with the ball to do this type of turn, since they obviously also has a ball to manipulate at their feet, so they cannot always plant their feet in the optimal way to push themselves off in the new direction.

Also the kicking animations for passing etc are too snappy and the limbs move too quickly in these instances. There is an imbalance between certain animations, some seem realistic, some seem sped up.

 

[klashman69]

Re: Fifa 11

One thing that I really dislike, and I'm not sure if it is in WC2010 or FIFA 11 still, but in the video posted above:

Spoiler

YouTube - KSIOlajidebt vs Antoholland: Arsenal vs Spain ft Van Persie, Fabregas, Torres & Villa FIFA 10 Sports

At 0:54 a player gets the ball on the edge of the pitch, and he crosses the ball. The way that player accelerates into a full sprint immediately after receiving the pass is really bad. He receives the ball angled a bit to his side, almost strafing, and from this position he just snaps into a sprint as if he has a harness and 10 guys pull him forward. This behavior when receiving passes is also what gives the video it's speedy appearance. Also check out the 90+ degree turn at 0:43. If you did that with a defender or player who doesn't have the ball, they would lean to the side and brace with their legs to push themselves in the new direction, and they would loose speed. But when a player with the ball does it, they again seem like they are being pushed by an invisible force. In fact it should be slightly more troublesome for a player with the ball to do this type of turn, since they obviously also has a ball to manipulate at their feet, so they cannot always plant their feet in the optimal way to push themselves off in the new direction.

Also the kicking animations for passing etc are too snappy and the limbs move too quickly in these instances. There is an imbalance between certain animations, some seem realistic, some seem sped up.

This brings up a very interesting point.

There are many totally unrealistic and arcadey animations in FIFA 09-10 and the world cup game (There were a few even in EURO 2008) but unlike FIFA 08 in which all animations seemed very consistent FIFA gets away with them and most people won't noticed because the game is so fluid and blends so well together as a 'game'.

I'd just love to get that 'weighted player' feeling back that was in FIFA 08 with most players apart from the likes of Messi and ratface, nani, Lennon etc..

The irony is :

Spoiler

FIFA 09-10 WC may have more unrealistic and unnatural animations than PES 2010, difference is that PES 2010's is robotic so the bad animaions tick out like a sore thumb and look ugly. Where as you will miss many if not all of fifa's poor since the game runs so smoothly an fluidly.

Romi, are there any elemts of FIFA 08 which are back for FIFA 11?

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Dude, there are loads! I don't know what you've been able to read during your exile, but there's a lot of stuff in here. I'd recommend the link in my sig as a starting point

Specifically to Trance_Allstar's point (and I think I talk about it to an extent in the link), FIFA 11 has a lot more inertia about it. What you can see in those points T_A highlighted are times in the game where momentum, something EA have done a good job of getting into many other aspects of the game, has simply not been applied. The player seems to have a force pushing them in a direction, because our brains expect the player to have to push against their own inertia.

FIFA 11 does a lot more to make sure you don't get players who instantly sprint off in the direction you press. WC2010 took very subtle steps in this regard but FIFA 11 is a big jump forward. I don't want to commit to saying that this is definitely gone, because specific examples like this are the sort of thing you have to be looking for really. But, however it achieves it, FIFA 11 makes every player feel a lot more like a body of mass rather than a laser pen image dancing around the screen.


FIFA 08 showed a lot of promise and popped my next-gen FIFA cherry, but in many ways was a bollocks game. achieved realism in much the same way PES 2010 does - by making the game as a whole so unresponsive and restrictive that 90% of the time you can't convey what you want your player to try and do without a sizeable pause. Where FIFA 09 and 10 went wrong is that what you wanted them to try was what they would actually do. FIFA 11 reins it back and makes it feel all the time as if you're trying, the payoff being it's a lot more emotive and satisfying when you succeed.

 

[klashman69]

Re: Fifa 11

Dude, there are loads! I don't know what you've been able to read during your exile, but there's a lot of stuff in here. I'd recommend the link in my sig as a starting point

Missed pretty much all your previews

FIFA 11 does a lot more to make sure you don't get players who instantly sprint off in the direction you press. WC2010 took very subtle steps in this regard but FIFA 11 is a big jump forward. I don't want to commit to saying that this is definitely gone, because specific examples like this are the sort of thing you have to be looking for really. But, however it achieves it, FIFA 11 makes every player feel a lot more like a body of mass rather than a laser pen image dancing around the screen.

More promise but it was really worried with that Arshavin/Campbell video in which Arshavin still looked as if he was skating

FIFA 08 showed a lot of promise and popped my next-gen FIFA cherry, but in many ways was a bollocks game.

It's very dated but the fundamentals were and still are brilliant in certain aspects. You know the 'feeling' it's feels like football and plays like it, even if it was so basic and stuck on rails. The fouling is silly, the keepers are just unspeakably basic and has many annoyances but at the time it was fucking awesome and i loved it, still do every know and again.

Also it was again the only FIFA game to have individuality. I played a friendly with Brazil and Argentina (me) Milito actually played similar to Milito in holding the ball up well, Ronaldinho actually attempted to embarrass me with that sombrero flick on his second touch.

Also i adored the long shots, they were so fresh and every goal felt different (semi shooting) It had that feeling where you could try your luck and you knew you had a small chance of scoring. Just a fun, likable but a times very frustrating game.

Kit i have to say were absolutely diabolical!

 

[SoulMan]

Re: Fifa 11

SoulMan - I don't think so. You certainly can't just smash X - you need to weight each pass accordingly. The defences are a lot better by default, the pace of the game and passing speed is a lot slower - particularly when trying to 180 pass - and even Barcelona have some passing inaccuracy. The fact that defenders have physical presence in more than just a shoulder barging sense is a big step forward too. I can see FIFA having a real tactical side to it at long, long last.

Whether it's truly enough in the hands of exploiters/EA don't make the game more forgiving between now and October we will have to see, but I'm very confident that the current game tips the scales very much in my favour when playing assisted noobs. Rest assured that if I don't feel like good football gamers can beat good gamers then I will keep flooding EA's forums and PM inboxes with your and my suggestions/complaints.

I'm certainly going to keep at them to give FIFA 12 an ultra sim mode that would make Placebo blush..

Thanks for the reply dude, you touched on tactics in your reply.

Will their finally be build up play? I love to play a slow paced passing game that just tears my opposition open and then play that killer ball to a striker for a clinical finish.

Am i going to be able to do this now?

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Re: Fifa 11

Dude, there are loads! I don't know what you've been able to read during your exile, but there's a lot of stuff in here. I'd recommend the link in my sig as a starting point

Specifically to Trance_Allstar's point (and I think I talk about it to an extent in the link), FIFA 11 has a lot more inertia about it. What you can see in those points T_A highlighted are times in the game where momentum, something EA have done a good job of getting into many other aspects of the game, has simply not been applied. The player seems to have a force pushing them in a direction, because our brains expect the player to have to push against their own inertia.

FIFA 11 does a lot more to make sure you don't get players who instantly sprint off in the direction you press. WC2010 took very subtle steps in this regard but FIFA 11 is a big jump forward. I don't want to commit to saying that this is definitely gone, because specific examples like this are the sort of thing you have to be looking for really. But, however it achieves it, FIFA 11 makes every player feel a lot more like a body of mass rather than a laser pen image dancing around the screen.


FIFA 08 showed a lot of promise and popped my next-gen FIFA cherry, but in many ways was a bollocks game. achieved realism in much the same way PES 2010 does - by making the game as a whole so unresponsive and restrictive that 90% of the time you can't convey what you want your player to try and do without a sizeable pause. Where FIFA 09 and 10 went wrong is that what you wanted them to try was what they would actually do. FIFA 11 reins it back and makes it feel all the time as if you're trying, the payoff being it's a lot more emotive and satisfying when you succeed.

That sounds very promising, I love the fact that they are catering more towards the not-so-casual players who like a realistic game and like to use manual controls. And only 2.5 months left till release.

 

[Scutch]

Re: Fifa 11

Thanks for all your info and updates, Rom.

Much appreciated, mate.

I'm hoping we'll get a bit more info (or a start) on Manager Mode this month, too. I believe the restriction is lifted on the 19th? Or have I just plucked that date out of nothing?

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Re: Fifa 11

I want some info on the goalkeepers, since there has been some rumours that they have had alot of work done to them, which I am looking forward to.

 

[Placebo]

Re: Fifa 11

Other than the YT vid about GK improvements I don't think there's been anything official released?

 

[Dusse]

Re: Fifa 11

Thanks for all your info and updates, Rom.

Much appreciated, mate.

I'm hoping we'll get a bit more info (or a start) on Manager Mode this month, too. I believe the restriction is lifted on the 19th? Or have I just plucked that date out of nothing?

Rutter says embargo lifts 22th.

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Re: Fifa 11

Other than the YT vid about GK improvements I don't think there's been anything official released?

I don't think so either. Romagnoli hinted at goalkeeper improvements a while ago, and the FSB podcast also mentioned how great the goalkeeper animations looked. They were very unspecific though so it is hard to say if the changes are merely animations, or if there is some new tech or such in there aswell. The goalkeeers in FIFA10 need work done both for the movement animations, so that they aren't magically pulled along the goal line when trying to save a freekick for example, and the save system would also need an overhaul in my opinion, to a more physics based solution. Some situations are poorly programmed, for example if you take short distance shots, the goalkeepers can react in literally milliseconds, and they almost always manage to fling their hands up to cover their head if the shot is going to hit them there. The movement speeds of their limbs sometimes is superhuman, so a reprogrammed system there would be very welcomed. Overall the movements of the goalkeeper often seem like they are pulled towards the ball. When you shoot a low shot and the goalkeeper gets just a finger or two on it as he stretches to the side, 9 times out of 10 the touch is enough to deflect the ball just outside the post. They could add a variable that makes it possible to achieve random angles of deflection, from good saves all the way down to the slighest of brushes that barely makes any difference in the trajectory. The system is way too mechanical to be realistic, which is something they could do alot of work on.

 

[PU6HY]

Re: Fifa 11

Speaking of keepers, I thought user controlled ones were supposed to be added in 10 but never happened. Man it would be hard controlling them and I personally don't think it's that great an idea unless it's not too hard (I tried it in NHL and it was solid). Are they ever going to add this option?