Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

Re: Fifa 11

Gab_ said:
Unless I've missed something you can't tweak your position like you say for headers. The only way I can move around in FIFA as I recall it is by using Cancel. If I do that I lose my lock to the ball if a team mate is close by.
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Really? You have quite a lot of room to move into better positions for headers (a lot of people doesn't seem to realize though, when playing online against random people I win abnormally many headers). It's most obvious during aerial battles from goal kicks etc (as the ball is in the air for a longer period of time obviously) but it's definitely there for crosses too.
 
Re: Fifa 11

You can tweak your position, yes. You can see it most prominently for heading goal kicks and corners. It's only subtle otherwise, but it's there. I think I use L2 but that might be one of those imaginary things because R2 used to do the same in PES.

(edit: really should refresh before posting!)

I know it isn't about just heading the ball as hard as you can, it's about getting the right weight on it. The majority of that is about getting your position right though. I don't disagree that it's a bit underplayed (or at least that we don't appreciate the difference that charging the header up more actually makes) - but I don't think it's something that would be better fixed by having a low shot modifier than just improving how the power gauge is used.



I did hit two or three fairly dangerous low shots in FIFA 11, one in particular with Rooney at a bit of an angle from 25 yards where the ball bobbled along the floor at pace and just missed the far post. I also hit quite a lot of low shots in WC2010, showing that it can be done.

It's not that the power gauge system is wrong in concept but that it's wrong in execution. The shot type is far too biased towards blasting an always-rising shot at goal, so that, even if the angle of the shot against the ground is really
small, it still manages to rise pretty high by the time it gets to goal, rather than dropping a lot earlier and reaching the goal at around ground level.

Just my opinion. I know that low shots are on EA's to-do list and that Chris Davies raised it in Canada, but if they do improve things further it'll be by tweaking the existing system.
 
Re: Fifa 11

I know I can move freely on goal kicks. If you really can move so good as you two say on crosses then I guess I've missed it because I use Cancel constantly. Won't have access to the game in two weeks, but I'll try to move from header to volley when I'm back.

@romagnoli have you played Football Kingdom?
 
Re: Fifa 11

It's not quite that free, it's more for altering your header. It's more prevalent in FIFA 11 IMO, where you have to try and judge headers yourself a bit more.

No I haven't played FK. I've looked for a PS2 emulator so I can d/l a copy but I've not looked all that hard. It looks entertaining, albeit extremely arcadey.
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
It's not quite that free, it's more for altering your header. It's more prevalent in FIFA 11 IMO, where you have to try and judge headers yourself a bit more.

No I haven't played FK. I've looked for a PS2 emulator so I can d/l a copy but I've not looked all that hard. It looks entertaining, albeit extremely arcadey.
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Yeah it's probably as arcady as it can get. However I do notice that most people prefer the current system (including devs) so I won't go on about it. I'll just have to try to like the current one.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Gab_ said:
Yeah it's probably as arcady as it can get. However I do notice that most people prefer the current system (including devs) so I won't go on about it. I'll just have to try to like the current one.
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What was the FK system? Is that the one that had the modifier button? Sorry, I've been all over the place today!

I'll happily pass it on, but in reality if you want this looked at then you'll probably need to explain why the low shot modifier doesn't guarantee low shots, and what could additionally go wrong. Otherwise Gary might read the first few lines and then move on because he thinks it could become an exploit.

Or you could suggest an alternative way he might look at it, like possibly you could have LT slow the power bar down by 10 or 20% so you can pick out a lower power gauge value more easily and hit a lower (but powerful) shot.
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
What was the FK system? Is that the one that had the modifier button? Sorry, I've been all over the place today!

I'll happily pass it on, but in reality if you want this looked at then you'll probably need to explain why the low shot modifier doesn't guarantee low shots, and what could additionally go wrong. Otherwise Gary might read the first few lines and then move on because he thinks it could become an exploit.

Or you could suggest an alternative way he might look at it, like possibly you could have LT slow the power bar down by 10 or 20% so you can pick out a lower power gauge value more easily and hit a lower (but powerful) shot.
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As I have understood it, the low shot modifier (for example a button) would simply instruct the player to try to shoot a very low shot. If my previously proposed Freekick system, where you tilt the analog stick more for higher intended trajectory, can be used to illustrate, then the low shot modifier would simply be the same as barely tilting the stick at all (you'd need a % of deadzone to be able to tilt a bit to define a direction).

Since this is only you communicating your intention to the game, this is in no way an exploit in itself. Any real player can intend to pull off a very low shot. However, you would need an equally as realistic error system.

1. The more power is added to the shot, the more likely the shot is to get a higher trajectory (not just because of the power itself, but because the ball, when it compresses against the boot, when struck with more force tends to roll up slightly on the boot if struck with anything but a very straight-on laces shot, and this can give it a higher angle coming off the boot).

2. When shooting at more of an angle (if you are not completely facing the goal) you tend to hit the ball more with the "side" of the foot, which can usually be a reason for the ball rolling up on the boot and getting a higher trajectory.

3. When in real life you try to shoot a very low shot, you tend to need to strike the ball slightly higher up than normally, to sort of not attack the ball from underneath. So one other way to give error to the shot would be to make the player striking the shot "top" the shot, causing him to kick the ball more into the ground, if you understand what I mean. This resulting in a slower, mildly rolling bouncing shot.


So this type of shot modifier being realistic to me seems mainly hinged on programming a realistic error system. Obviously if one cannot be programmed to satisfaction it would be easier just to keep the current system, where it unfortunately feels like a tap of the shot button does give less power than holding it longer, which unfortunately also is linked directly to a steeper trajectory.
 
Re: Fifa 11

I just want to retract the stuff about moving your player for headers. It turns out I'm always pressing L2+R2 straight away, so for crosses and duels for the ball I'm overriding the default system. Pressing directions without this seems to do bugger all after 5 minutes of chucking crosses into the box in training. The power bar doesn't seem to do anything to headers either, as I suspected.

I'll pass the shot modifier stuff on. I still think the existing system could achieve exactly the same result with just a little tweaking, but I'm not going to play god with this!


EDIT: Are you guys going by FIFA 10 or WC2010??

WC2010 isn't it. You've both been talking about it for the past few days.
 
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Re: Fifa 11

If you're referring to me generally I refer to FIFA10, usually I use them interchangeably unless I specifically know something is different in WC from FIFA, in which case I will try to specify exactly what version I mean. :)
 
Re: Fifa 11

Trance_Allstar said:
I think in the end the results are the same.
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Yeah, after thinking about it for a while, I came to the same conclusion. The important things are of course that the ball fly realistically according to player and situation. And for that you only need three main factors: direction, speed and spin. Of course weather, altitude, ball-type and ball-inflation should have a say too, but I don't think thats calculated in Fifa.

There was recently released a physics article on ball-flight in soccer games. But all this is probably old news to the Fifa dev-team :)

http://www.physicstoday.org/beautiful_game.html
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
I just want to retract the stuff about moving your player for headers. It turns out I'm always pressing L2+R2 straight away, so for crosses and duels for the ball I'm overriding the default system. Pressing directions without this seems to do bugger all after 5 minutes of chucking crosses into the box in training. The power bar doesn't seem to do anything to headers either, as I suspected.

I'll pass the shot modifier stuff on. I still think the existing system could achieve exactly the same result with just a little tweaking, but I'm not going to play god with this!


EDIT: Are you guys going by FIFA 10 or WC2010??

WC2010 isn't it. You've both been talking about it for the past few days.
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I think I'm mainly referring to FIFA 10, but as far as I have noticed the shooting system works the same in WC too, but with better power in the shots.

I also think that in Football Kingdom when pressing the low modifier it also can be applied to crosses (all high pass button actions), so it's not only for shots. Wasn't a new low lob pass implemented in FIFA 11 by pressing RB? That sounds like in theory could be low modifier and lob button.

Don't really like that that new hard lob pass is RB, because it's not very consistent with the control scheme. RB is used for high backspin crosses or finesse shots, so to me it doesn't make much sense to translate that button to a hard low lob pass. But I guess it was the only button left.

Another reason I like the shot bar to be only power is because it's power in all other situations. It's power for passes, lob passes, crosses and penalties. So I think that in a way it would make sense if it was power for shots and freekicks too, and then stick tilt or trigger press for height modifier. They could maybe even scrap the double and triple tap for crosses too, giving you the control to decide the power on those for the first time (max tilt/press for ground cross and gradually higher the less you press it).

I said I was going to stop posting about it but I can't help myself ;)
 
Re: Fifa 11

Gab_ said:
I think I'm mainly referring to FIFA 10, but as far as I have noticed the shooting system works the same in WC too, but with better power in the shots.

I also think that in Football Kingdom when pressing the low modifier it also can be applied to crosses (all high pass button actions), so it's not only for shots. Wasn't a new low lob pass implemented in FIFA 11 by pressing RB? That sounds like in theory could be low modifier and lob button.

Don't really like that that new hard lob pass is RB, because it's not very consistent with the control scheme. RB is used for high backspin crosses or finesse shots, so to me it doesn't make much sense to translate that button to a hard low lob pass. But I guess it was the only button left.

Another reason I like the shot bar to be only power is because it's power in all other situations. It's power for passes, lob passes, crosses and penalties. So I think that in a way it would make sense if it was power for shots and freekicks too, and then stick tilt or trigger press for height modifier. They could maybe even scrap the double and triple tap for crosses too, giving you the control to decide the power on those for the first time (max tilt/press for ground cross and gradually higher the less you press it).

I said I was going to stop posting about it but I can't help myself ;)
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I would agree that if tilting the stick is out of the question, what they really should do is use for example LT as a height modifier, for shots but also longpasses if possible. I know it is used for activating the trick stick, but basically whenever you power up for a shot, that functionality would be deactivated (which I suppose it already is in FIFA10, powering up for a shot or other ball strike immediately locks the player to that action), and the LT being pulled more or less would be the intended height. If they wanted they could use LT to act as height control for freekicks/corners aswell. Would take a short time getting used to the change, but I can't really spot any drawbacks to it to be honest, unless I am missing something.
 
Re: Fifa 11

I really have the urge to play some football again now that RDR has essentially come to an end, but Fifa10 is out as the squads are so outdated and we're in the wrong division, and the world cup game is out because England are out and I lost enthusiasm for national team football :(
 
Re: Fifa 11

How can you lose enthusiasm for national team football when there's a World Cup on!? Forget England, they were never going to get past the first half-decent opponent anyway :ROLL:

I'm still struggling to unearth any genuine fun in FIFA10, despite persevering. Manager Mode is so empty and sterile, and the AI is so rigidly predictable (sprint forward at top speed, loop immaculate cross onto unmarked striker's head, head wide, repeat ad infinitum).

I've attempted to sustain interest by tinkering with tactics, but really, the AI on both sides care so little for tactical play that it always just becomes a free-for-all regardless. I think the only thing keeping me coming back is the pure challenge of trying to get results with a terrible and hopelessly outclassed team, but that's merely a gaming challenge that has little to do with football.

We never seem to discuss the audio, which I can't help but label horrendously poor. The crowd is this persistently monotonous drone that becomes tiring to listen to very quickly. I find it staggering that over two/three decades of football video games we've yet to find audio that bears any resemblance to an actual football crowd.
 
Re: Fifa 11

The sound is poor, it amazes me no end how far we haven't come in the genre full stop. Other games never cease to amaze with their sound and graphical detail yet the game of Football seems to be the hardest thing in the world to produce?

Yes i understand programming the AI and things like that are immense but there are other sport titles that have to do just that but that does not mean we should be in my mind so far off on the graphics, sound and depth of the game especially on the off line MM department.

The only thing I can think of is it's the online side of things that are holding the game back, that and the fact there is a clear Monopoly of two...
 
Re: Fifa 11

Sound is something that is traditionally undervalued in games. It's definitely even more so in football games. There just aren't enough resources being allocated to the audio.

The custom chants should make a massive difference though - I heavily kitservered PES 6 and it was absolutely amazing. It also means EA are a bit freer to put more effort into getting the non-chant based sound right.

Where PES went for graphical improvements, I'd love it if FIFA went for sound. Sound makes so much more difference than graphics in stills.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Nick Cave said:
The sound is poor, it amazes me no end how far we haven't come in the genre full stop. Other games never cease to amaze with their sound and graphical detail yet the game of Football seems to be the hardest thing in the world to produce?

Yes i understand programming the AI and things like that are immense but there are other sport titles that have to do just that but that does not mean we should be in my mind so far off on the graphics, sound and depth of the game especially on the off line MM department.

The only thing I can think of is it's the online side of things that are holding the game back, that and the fact there is a clear Monopoly of two...
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NBA 2k10 has amazing sounds
 
Re: Fifa 11

Release date has been set to 28th of September for North America. Probably the 1st of October for Europe. Looks like we'll be getting the game three weeks before the usual release date of past years. :)
 
Re: Fifa 11

Scorpio said:
Release date has been set to 28th of September for North America. Probably the 1st of October for Europe. Looks like we'll be getting the game three weeks before the usual release date of past years. :)
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I'm hoping for a EU release of september 24th. They've never released the game earlier in NA than EU so anything else would surprise me.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Nick Cave said:
FIFA 11 news out, gutted this will not be a patch on the others but will stunt any improvement on the MM in FIFA 11... :RANT:
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It's only for PC though isn't it? Don't see why it should affect the console versions of Fifa11, couldn't care less what Fifa on PC does.
 
Re: Fifa 11

I also think it's a lot less likely that EA would clip the wings of their 10 million-a-time football game for the sake of FIFA Manager, which I doubt has sold that many titles since the first edition.
 
Re: Fifa 11

How about a Fifa Manager add-on for the consoles? Pay 10pound (or whatever) and it get's incorporated into the game in the same way like ultimate team.

I would really consider that a worthwhile buy if MM continues to be as weak as it currently is.
 
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