Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

The difference in the green spot is huge between a really good and really bad player. However, it might still be a bit too easy - I think a better solution is to speed up the needle to make it harder rather than to increase the CPU control. And yes, full power makes it extremely hard to have much control over where you'll hit the shot.

Speeding it up so it's more up to LUCK if you hit the middle?

Edit: Been doing penalties now with a player with 19 in penalty attribute, and if you just press the button very short you have a pretty small circle even if you don't hit the green area. And since the power is still pretty hard you can place them in the top corner without much problem.

 

[Dusse]

Re: Fifa 11

Speeding it up so it's more up to LUCK if you hit the middle?

No, so that it requires more skill of the user.

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

No, so that it requires more skill of the user.

Yeah, I hope they don't do that. I want a simulation based game, not a gamers game.

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

Is it me or are the keepers much more dynamic on penalties than in normal play? Seems to be quite a lot of IK going on with the arms and it feels like anything can happen if he saves the ball. I don't get that feeling in normal play, the saves feels much more scripted to me there.

Edit: I take that back. I don't think I have played enough WC 2010 to realise how much more realistic the keepers are in this game. Shooting from impossible angles in practice mode and you actually don't know what will happen all the time like in FIFA 10.

However what I do notice is the extreme need for telling the player to try to shoot low. It's just too weird at the moment when a low shot is just tapping the button, because the player doesn't prepare for a low show and usually always ends up in perfect height for the keeper. A low shot modifier as in Football Kingdom would be so awesome to me, it could replace the LT (hard shot) button so that the power bar was pretty much only power and not height.

Hmm, since the LT is pressure sensitive, maybe it would work that if you don't press it you try a high shot. Then the more you press it the lower you try to shot. I guess the problem is that shooting will always involve two buttons, but I pretty much always shoot with LT anyway because I see no advantage to shoot without it pressed.

 

[Dusse]

Re: Fifa 11

Yeah, I hope they don't do that. I want a simulation based game, not a gamers game.

So do I, and this is by far the best way we have to simulate penalty kicks right now. I suppose you agitate for the removal of manual and semi controls as well? Remove all user control while you're on it. What you want is essentially the same as removing manual in favor for assisted controls IMO. Personally I don't think it's a good idea to remove all user skill impact in the game.

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

So do I, and this is by far the best way we have to simulate penalty kicks right now. I suppose you agitate for the removal of manual and semi controls as well? Remove all user control while you're on it. What you want is essentially the same as removing manual in favor for assisted controls IMO.

Not at all. What I want is attribute based manual controls, just like with the penalties. I am given the control to try to put the ball where I want it and then it is up to the player to put it there. I'm about manual AIM, and you seem to be a little more about manual result.

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Re: Fifa 11

So do I, and this is by far the best way we have to simulate penalty kicks right now. I suppose you agitate for the removal of manual and semi controls as well? Remove all user control while you're on it. What you want is essentially the same as removing manual in favor for assisted controls IMO. Personally I don't think it's a good idea to remove all user skill impact in the game.

The thing is that most people seem to consider manual passing as an obstacle. In fact, 95% of the time, unless I am very pressured, I have no problems aiming even long throughpasses along the touchlines and such pretty much perfectly. So I don't personally consider the manual passing at all an error-inducer on top of the attribute-induced error, I just consider it freedom.

 

[Dusse]

Re: Fifa 11

Not at all. What I want is attribute based manual controls, just like with the penalties. I am given the control to try to put the ball where I want it and then it is up to the player to put it there. I'm about manual AIM, and you seem to be a little more about manual result.

Well, yeah, I do want to control both aim and power, but other than that, no. I just don't think it's a good thing completely removing the users ability to use their own skill to "override" player skill - IE the same way if you have even a bad passer on the ball you should be able do a good pass if you give him the right tools (time, composure, good aim, power etc). It should not be scripted that you can't make a good pass with him - it should be about you having to give him the right circumstances to be able to do something good with the ball, and the same goes for penaltys IMO and even though by principle I don't like that kind of bars I think it's the best compromise for penalty kicks. And let's face it, it's not that hard to hit a penalty kick decent.

The thing is that most people seem to consider manual passing as an obstacle. In fact, 95% of the time, unless I am very pressured, I have no problems aiming even long throughpasses along the touchlines and such pretty much perfectly. So I don't personally consider the manual passing at all an error-inducer on top of the attribute-induced error, I just consider it freedom.

Completely agree, however, I don't realize what my post has to do with that?

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Re: Fifa 11

I think sometimes we speak slightly different languages.

Let me see if I can define this further.


For me, the only thing I want to be in absolute control over is the "theoretical" aspect of the play, the players brains if you will (this doesn't actually include the nervous system, only the actual thought processes and decision making). In any situation, I want to be the brain telling the body what I want it to do.
In keeping with this, manual aim control means alot to me, because it enables me, like a brain could, to for example ask my body to pass the ball into a specific part of the pitch (and I feel that I have enough control over manual passing where this isn't based on any "luck", and only induces a fairly low amount of error, I am not a machine after all so I will never be perfect, but...).


Now, completely separately, I want the entire physical aspect of the game to be down to attributes. How well can the body kick the ball according to the brains wishes.

So, when we take the example of the World Cup penalty system, I don't like having control over the composure meter, because the composure, meaning how well the body can respond to the brains wishes, only affects the physical part of the player. For example, if the player is inexperienced, he might be very nervous taking the final penalty in the WC final. The nervousness affects the body's nervous system, making the muscles not function as well and precisely as they usually do, and his composure becomes very low.

If I am suddenly in control of the composure meter, if I have trained enough striking penalties, I can suddenly calm the players nerves and make him suddenly disregard that he is 18 years old and kicking a penalty in the WC finals, making him suddenly as effective as a much more experienced player. This seems to go against the concept of simulation. Otherwise what is this simulating? Is hitting the composure meter dead center the equivalent of the player suddenly remembering his beloved old grandmother smiling at him and making him forget all about the pressure?
I suppose you could sort of reason like that, but the bottom line is still that for maximum simulation, anything can can be boiled down to an attribute which is derived from observing the real player, should be handled as an attribute, not as something the strategic part of the brain ("aim for the top corner", "run to that space", "try to tackle that guy") can influence.


I hope anyone understands what the point I am trying to get across is. Does anyone agree or disagree with my thinking, and why so?



EDIT: Additionally, I have created a video of me taking penalties with the Swedish goalkeeper Isaksson. The first minute is with the cursor visible, and after the 1 minute mark I remove it and go simply by "feel". Am I the only one who thinks it looks more like a striker shooting penalties? I mean it is the training ground and no pressure (more pressure makes the needle move faster), but for a goalkeeper with sub-20 in attributes I think it seems way too good.

YouTube - FIFA WC2010 - Penalties

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

Well, yeah, I do want to control both aim and power, but other than that, no. I just don't think it's a good thing completely removing the users ability to use their own skill to "override" player skill - IE the same way if you have even a bad passer on the ball you should be able do a good pass if you give him the right tools (time, composure, good aim, power etc). It should not be scripted that you can't make a good pass with him - it should be about you having to give him the right circumstances to be able to do something good with the ball, and the same goes for penaltys IMO and even though by principle I don't like that kind of bars I think it's the best compromise for penalty kicks. And let's face it, it's not that hard to hit a penalty kick decent.

I don't think we disagree as much as it sounds. Problem is that I feel that it is way too much ME at the moment. It feels like 10 clones of me running around on the pitch, so even if I love the freedom of manual passing, it's just too easy to always put it where I want it.

I agree that the errors should be context sensitive, not sure if EA have talked about this in their Pro Passing.

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Re: Fifa 11

Well, yeah, I do want to control both aim and power, but other than that, no. I just don't think it's a good thing completely removing the users ability to use their own skill to "override" player skill - IE the same way if you have even a bad passer on the ball you should be able do a good pass if you give him the right tools (time, composure, good aim, power etc). It should not be scripted that you can't make a good pass with him - it should be about you having to give him the right circumstances to be able to do something good with the ball, and the same goes for penaltys IMO and even though by principle I don't like that kind of bars I think it's the best compromise for penalty kicks. And let's face it, it's not that hard to hit a penalty kick decent.



Completely agree, however, I don't realize what my post has to do with that?

Sorry, I read the previous posts slopily, please disregard my post.

 

[Dusse]

Re: Fifa 11

I think sometimes we speak slightly different languages.

Ja, det vore väl lättare om alla pratade svenska.

For me, the only thing I want to be in absolute control over is the "theoretical" aspect of the play, the players brains if you will (this doesn't actually include the nervous system, only the actual thought processes and decision making). In any situation, I want to be the brain telling the body what I want it to do.
In keeping with this, manual aim control means alot to me, because it enables me, like a brain could, to for example ask my body to pass the ball into a specific part of the pitch (and I feel that I have enough control over manual passing where this isn't based on any "luck", and only induces a fairly low amount of error, I am not a machine after all so I will never be perfect, but...).


Now, completely separately, I want the entire physical aspect of the game to be down to attributes. How well can the body kick the ball according to the brains wishes.

So, when we take the example of the World Cup penalty system, I don't like having control over the composure meter, because the composure, meaning how well the body can respond to the brains wishes, only affects the physical part of the player. For example, if the player is inexperienced, he might be very nervous taking the final penalty in the WC final. The nervousness affects the body's nervous system, making the muscles not function as well and precisely as they usually do, and his composure becomes very low.

If I am suddenly in control of the composure meter, if I have trained enough striking penalties, I can suddenly calm the players nerves and make him suddenly disregard that he is 18 years old and kicking a penalty in the WC finals, making him suddenly as effective as a much more experienced player. This seems to go against the concept of simulation. Otherwise what is this simulating? Is hitting the composure meter dead center the equivalent of the player suddenly remembering his beloved old grandmother smiling at him and making him forget all about the pressure?
I suppose you could sort of reason like that, but the bottom line is still that for maximum simulation, anything can can be boiled down to an attribute which is derived from observing the real player, should be handled as an attribute, not as something the strategic part of the brain ("aim for the top corner", "run to that space", "try to tackle that guy") can influence.

I agree with most part. However, I still do believe that the current system is a decent compromise between fun and realistic. The thing about penaltys..as a goalkeeper myself I hate them during training - no matter how bad the player is they'll still score them 9/10 if they don't fuck around (I'll score them 10/10 of course). The only thing that is really hard about penaltys is controlling your nerves - completely remove user control of that and you end up with a CPU controlled lottery. It's not completely realistic (nor unrealistic) but it's the best way yet. Perhaps better players could have a "smoother" movement of the circle (right not towards the end it becomes stuttery). That way it'd be easier for quality penalty kickers to place it closer to the post. Just an idea. Still don't think it's a good think to remove user control of composure though.

YouTube - FIFA WC2010 - Penalties[/url]

Well..first of all I'm absolutely certain that his penalty attribute is way off, out of experience it's likely that he would be one of the best penalty kickers in the swedish team. Other than that..no, during training I'm yet to meet anyone who won't have that kind of accuracy of penaltys during training, with the nerve aspect being removed, and I've played with a lot of..not so good players. I think it's reasonable. And you're kind of cheating too - should have done it the other way around (by having that blue circle there you have fresh knowledge of exactly how it'll work).

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Re: Fifa 11

Ja, det vore väl lättare om alla pratade svenska.



I agree with most part. However, I still do believe that the current system is a decent compromise between fun and realistic. The thing about penaltys..as a goalkeeper myself I hate them during training - no matter how bad the player is they'll still score them 9/10 if they don't fuck around (I'll score them 10/10 of course). The only thing that is really hard about penaltys is controlling your nerves - completely remove user control of that and you end up with a CPU controlled lottery. It's not completely realistic (nor unrealistic) but it's the best way yet. Perhaps better players could have a "smoother" movement of the circle (right not towards the end it becomes stuttery). That way it'd be easier for quality penalty kickers to place it closer to the post. Just an idea. Still don't think it's a good think to remove user control of composure though.




Well..first of all I'm absolutely certain that his penalty attribute is way off, out of experience it's likely that he would be one of the best penalty kickers in the swedish team. Other than that..no, during training I'm yet to meet anyone who won't have that kind of accuracy of penaltys during training, with the nerve aspect being removed, and I've played with a lot of..not so good players. I think it's reasonable. And you're kind of cheating too - should have done it the other way around (by having that blue circle there you have fresh knowledge of exactly how it'll work).

Såg inte ens att du faktiskt är från Sverige med. Trevlig kväll.

I just looked at the stats for Isaksson, and they are:

PWR 22
FKA 19
CRL 11
PEN 19

So he is pretty much the worst player in the team, and yet can pick out the top corner 10 out of 10, not even once putting it over the bar. The system could use some revising in my opinion.

Also, regarding using the circle first, I just took a few penalties after not playing for over an hour, and it still is as easy. Once you learn the trick it is very repeatable.

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Re: Fifa 11

I agree with most part. However, I still do believe that the current system is a decent compromise between fun and realistic. The thing about penaltys..as a goalkeeper myself I hate them during training - no matter how bad the player is they'll still score them 9/10 if they don't fuck around (I'll score them 10/10 of course). The only thing that is really hard about penaltys is controlling your nerves - completely remove user control of that and you end up with a CPU controlled lottery.

But how do you make a gamer have the nervousness of a penalty shoot-out?! They know it's all down to their own control and with the system being as mechanical as it is (fifa10) and with the lack ot atmosphere in the game in general it's sterile. Imo what would make me nervous is knowing I'm having to take a penalty with a bottler and hoping that a simple down the middle will do.

 

[Dusse]

Re: Fifa 11

But how do you make a gamer have the nervousness of a penalty shoot-out?! They know it's all down to their own control and with the system being as mechanical as it is (fifa10) and with the lack ot atmosphere in the game in general it's sterile. Imo what would make me nervous is knowing I'm having to take a penalty with a bottler and hoping that a simple down the middle will do.

Well, the thing is that having to put it closer to the middle isn't a realistic solution either. You're usually almost as likely to miss it where ever in the goal you try to put it when nerves come in to play. Therefore a more fun (to me at least) is to prefer IMO.

Oh, and yes, the FIFA10 penalty system do suck indeed. But we're talking about the world cup game.

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Re: Fifa 11

What I meant is that knowing the player has crap stats (whether shot stats or composure) and knowing that because of that I have a far higher chance of missing if I aim for the corner. I would then have to gamble between placing it in the corner and hope that he keeps his composure and scores (which makes it cpu influenced and out of your control), or take the chance to have a shot closer to centre and hope that the goalie can't save it (I'm in control as I choose a poorer shot btu I have to hope the AI makes the wrong decision).

Simulation isn't only the technical ability/possiblities of players. I can kick the ball anywhere I want from a penalty, same as all other players in the game so it has nothing to do with "control". It has everything to do with the situation and how it effects your control. I personally don't think having gauges and timers and whatever else is a good way to try to give players "control" of this aspect. The "control" should be knowing football, the players and having the insight to choose the right player (composure vs skill).

I would want the stats to determine this question for everything, offcourse the level of effect would differ but it would add far more "life" (far better word then "soul") to the game and the players.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Is it me or are the keepers much more dynamic on penalties than in normal play? Seems to be quite a lot of IK going on with the arms and it feels like anything can happen if he saves the ball. I don't get that feeling in normal play, the saves feels much more scripted to me there.

Edit: I take that back. I don't think I have played enough WC 2010 to realise how much more realistic the keepers are in this game. Shooting from impossible angles in practice mode and you actually don't know what will happen all the time like in FIFA 10.

However what I do notice is the extreme need for telling the player to try to shoot low. It's just too weird at the moment when a low shot is just tapping the button, because the player doesn't prepare for a low show and usually always ends up in perfect height for the keeper. A low shot modifier as in Football Kingdom would be so awesome to me, it could replace the LT (hard shot) button so that the power bar was pretty much only power and not height.

Hmm, since the LT is pressure sensitive, maybe it would work that if you don't press it you try a high shot. Then the more you press it the lower you try to shot. I guess the problem is that shooting will always involve two buttons, but I pretty much always shoot with LT anyway because I see no advantage to shoot without it pressed.

Gab, it's not really been mentioned yet but FIFA 11 cranks the IK up a lot for keepers. I can only assume from the lack of coverage on keepers thus far that it's something that is still under NDA but good times are coming

Regarding the shooting, a lot of it is because shots just keep rising. There are far too many shots that just keep going up and up. This is definitely cut down for 11 because there aren't so many power drives.

We did discuss having a low shot modifier in FIFA but Gary didn't like how you could hold a button and guarantee you wouldn't hit the ball over even if you charged the bar up fully - why would you choose to shoot high?

I think fixing the shot types so the ball dips more would be a better, more intuitive fix, personally.

 

[Nick Cave]

Re: Fifa 11

Gab, it's not really been mentioned yet but FIFA 11 cranks the IK up a lot for keepers. I can only assume from the lack of coverage on keepers thus far that it's something that is still under NDA but good times are coming

Regarding the shooting, a lot of it is because shots just keep rising. There are far too many shots that just keep going up and up. This is definitely cut down for 11 because there aren't so many power drives.

We did discuss having a low shot modifier in FIFA but Gary didn't like how you could hold a button and guarantee you wouldn't hit the ball over even if you charged the bar up fully - why would you choose to shoot high?

I think fixing the shot types so the ball dips more would be a better, more intuitive fix, personally.

Oh dear the shooting is still too floaty in WC, what is it with EA and hard shots
They need to watch some more games, even in the lower leagues players can still hit with power, same goes for crosses and corners...

Again simple things easily fixed, I would have thought...

As for his button argument ask him why you should have to tap the button with the speed of a ninja to keep it low and where in the laws of physics does power=Height?...

 

[Dusse]

Re: Fifa 11

I really hope this goalkeeper animation:

YouTube - 652A0001_1_FLV_VIDEO_STX.flv

..becomes A LOT less common. I doubt anyone who's good enough to make it into FIFA would still do that regularly. All goalkeeper coaches I've had would kill me if I did that.. every time the goalkeepers in FIFA does that I want to put a gun to my head. It's a beginners mistake. Don't ever fall back - always attack the ball..

 

[BobbyBox]

Re: Fifa 11

The main problem with hitting a shot low and with power is accuracy. As if you try it in real life, the ball has a tendancy to whiz of to the left or right.

Although with more power you can get some degree of lift, I think if a seperate button (or button combination) was used for low shots it would be much better.

The more power you put in the less accuracy and maybe more bobbling as you hit it into the ground etc and also a bit of lift.

Thats all IMO obviously but I do think it should be thought about a bit more.

 

[Nick Cave]

Re: Fifa 11

I agree I'd rather that than just skying it all the time, even if you hit the button if your player is not set up well or at full tilt it doesn't have to guarantee it stays down...

But power = height is just wrong...

 

[BobbyBox]

Re: Fifa 11

I agree I'd rather that than just skying it all the time, even if you hit the button if your player is not set up well or at full tilt it doesn't have to guarantee it stays down...

But power = height is just wrong...

yeah exactly, if you are off balance (or another reason) then it can be miss hit etc and can rise and go totally off depending on the circumstances.

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

We did discuss having a low shot modifier in FIFA but Gary didn't like how you could hold a button and guarantee you wouldn't hit the ball over even if you charged the bar up fully - why would you choose to shoot high?

I think fixing the shot types so the ball dips more would be a better, more intuitive fix, personally.

That's a pretty weird reason thought isn't it? I mean why do real football players don't always shoot low then?

The low shot modifier in Football Kingdom doesn't mean you always shoot low. It means, just like in real life, that the player tries his best to shoot low. But if you time it so that the ball is far in front of you, you won't be able to shoot a low hard shot. I've shot over the bar plenty of times with the modifier pressed.

Also, the additional beauty of this system is that you can also tell the player to try to head the ball down or keep a volley low. Again, it obviously doesn't mean it always will be low, because on headers and volleys it has to do a lot with how you're positioned to the ball. You can't head a ball down if it hits the top of your head. But it gives you the possibility to say to the player that he should try to hit a hard low header for example.

I really don't see any disadvantage in this system compared to the current one. Well, the one disadvantage would be if you think like Gary did and implement it so it would be a scripted low shot. In FK you also shoot very weak and with low accuracy if you time a low shot badly (realistic), so it's not like low shots are any better than high ones.

It's just like with manual passing, it's manual AIM and nothing more.

 

[Nick Cave]

Re: Fifa 11

Maybe it's used as an aid to keep scores and goal chances down...

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

I've never seen the power bar as a true power indicator anyway - you can hit a shot just as powerfully with a tap as with holding the button down. It's your body position and the amount of time/space you've got that really defines how much power you want to use. I think a low shot modifier is a bit clumsy compared to improving the shooting itself. But then I've never really had an issue with either PES or FIFA's gauges charging too quickly. It's just the apparent minimum height that you usually get in WC2010 that can creep too high if the shot is represented as a blast rather than a bouncing shot IMO.

Similarly I think it'd be clumsy to make holding L2 result in trying to keep a header down - every player IRL tries to keep a headed attempt at goal down (except when trying to get it over the keeper). At the moment you do that by tweaking the position of the player to try and make sure you are able to get over it, which is the vast majority of what is required IRL. I've never felt that charging a header up more in FIFA (again, a shooting header) ever feels more or less powerful either, for that matter. I've not tested it extensively though.

I don't disagree that too many shots go higher rather than low, but that can easily be fixed by stopping the gauge from increasing the lift so soon.

 

[Nick Cave]

Re: Fifa 11

Anyway they do it, keeping the ball down should not rely on your reflexes as far as pushing a button goes...

 

[lothario]

Re: Fifa 11

Hey, I've been monitoring this topic for some time now, and absolutely love the input so far. Excellent reads. Are still waiting for Romagnoli's playtest part 2, but maybe I've missed it somewhere in the midst of all these excellent posts.

Regarding shooting, I just have a thought that may lead nowhere, and probably have been mentioned by others, better:

Current Factors
As I see it now, these are the factors, that determine a shot-type and trajectory:

- The intention of the gamer/player (finesse/power/direction)
- The speed and position of the ball
- The speed and position of the player
- The amount of opponent pressure
- The various player attributes (shooting, constitution)
- Preferred foot

The Missing Factor
There may be some other factors, but one thing I noticed, is that the central and only thing that really determines the balls motion is missing:

- How the foot hits the ball.

(All of this is of course my guesses, cause I don't know how it works in the fifa engine. So this post might be completely off)

The Difference
As I see it, the list, that currently has influence on the ball trajectory, has a sweetspot as a starting point (where the shot will be executed perfectly), from which the list then add some error to, to make it more random/lifelike.

So the list concentrates on how the ball will move, instead of how the ball is hit.

The Impact
How will this then have any impact on gameplay? Well, if you get the physics right, on the impact between the foot/shoe and the ball, then it will not be an estimation of randomness (via the list), but really randomness. No error would have to be added to the shot, cause the physics already did that.

The skill of the player now constitutes his ability to set himself up for the shot (reading and hitting the ball, keeping balance), instead of just having a certain chance (rolling a dice) of hitting a good shot.

Conclusion
I have no idea what I'm talking about. But it made sense right now.

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Re: Fifa 11

Hey, I've been monitoring this topic for some time now, and absolutely love the input so far. Excellent reads. Are still waiting for Romagnoli's playtest part 2, but maybe I've missed it somewhere in the midst of all these excellent posts.

Regarding shooting, I just have a thought that may lead nowhere, and probably have been mentioned by others, better:

Current Factors
As I see it now, these are the factors, that determine a shot-type and trajectory:

- The intention of the gamer/player (finesse/power/direction)
- The speed and position of the ball
- The speed and position of the player
- The amount of opponent pressure
- The various player attributes (shooting, constitution)
- Preferred foot

The Missing Factor
There may be some other factors, but one thing I noticed, is that the central and only thing that really determines the balls motion is missing:

- How the foot hits the ball.

(All of this is of course my guesses, cause I don't know how it works in the fifa engine. So this post might be completely off)

The Difference
As I see it, the list, that currently has influence on the ball trajectory, has a sweetspot as a starting point (where the shot will be executed perfectly), from which the list then add some error to, to make it more random/lifelike.

So the list concentrates on how the ball will move, instead of how the ball is hit.

The Impact
How will this then have any impact on gameplay? Well, if you get the physics right, on the impact between the foot/shoe and the ball, then it will not be an estimation of randomness (via the list), but really randomness. No error would have to be added to the shot, cause the physics already did that.

The skill of the player now constitutes his ability to set himself up for the shot (reading and hitting the ball, keeping balance), instead of just having a certain chance (rolling a dice) of hitting a good shot.

Conclusion
I have no idea what I'm talking about. But it made sense right now.

I think I know what you mean.


I think in the end the results are the same. Both PES and FIFA use inverse kinetics to make sure the foot of a player hits the ball, so that it looks good.

So, you could do it two ways:


1. As soon as you press the shot button, the game will collect data of where you aim, and apply error to it (based on player attributes), which will mean that the path of the ball and the error is already determined by the game when you press the shot button. If the error calculated means that the shot will stray off to the right, the game could then make the IK system make the boot hit the ball a bit left of center, causing the shot to veer off to the right.

2. You could press the shot button, and the IK system will hit the ball more or less perfectly, and where the IK system hits the ball will then at that moment determine a flight path.


The only real difference is where in the pipeline of calculations the error is calculated and determined. Approach number 2 is better modeled after reality, but since the error calculation in approach 1 happens invisibly, it's not going to make any difference. The end result is that based on player attributes, the foot will hit the ball more or less perfectly, and the flight path will depend on where on the ball the foot strikes.


I would agree, without having looked at it in alot of detail, that the current FIFA10 IK system might need to better correspond to the trajectory of the ball, so that you could look at a replay, see the moment of impact, and accurately guess the path of the ball purely from looking at the strike.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Hi lothario,

It's an important point. The game does currently model how you kick the ball - pro passing and shooting represent inaccuracy based on where the player is meant to be kicking the ball. I don't know whether the exact part of the ball that is kicked is exactly how the game models the ball being kicked, but certainly the movement of the ball is represented as if the foot as hit the relevant part of the ball, rather than just deciding to fire the ball off in a certain direction. It's why the deflections off of people's thighs/shins etc are so good.

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

Similarly I think it'd be clumsy to make holding L2 result in trying to keep a header down - every player IRL tries to keep a headed attempt at goal down (except when trying to get it over the keeper). At the moment you do that by tweaking the position of the player to try and make sure you are able to get over it, which is the vast majority of what is required IRL. I've never felt that charging a header up more in FIFA (again, a shooting header) ever feels more or less powerful either, for that matter. I've not tested it extensively though.

I don't disagree that too many shots go higher rather than low, but that can easily be fixed by stopping the gauge from increasing the lift so soon.

Unless I've missed something you can't tweak your position like you say for headers. The only way I can move around in FIFA as I recall it is by using Cancel. If I do that I lose my lock to the ball if a team mate is close by.

Being able to choose power is a big thing in doing headers in real life. Heading is an art, it's not just about head the ball as hard as you can. And having so much control over the player that you can choose to do a low header or high header in the small amount of time you have won't work that well. Holding down a modifier so that the player can adjust that half of meter that is needed will work much better.

It's just like with the shooting. Currently you have to time so so that the ball is close to your body. But the player have no idea that you are going to shoot low so he doesn't adjust to the ball, that's not how you shoot a low shot in real life.