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Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

Re: Fifa 11

TikTikTikTikTik said:
From what I remember they can't as it's an official license and they can't "actively" portray the officials in a bad light.

Ofcourse they could just not allow a replay of the mistake and then it's all fine again........
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Yeah that's probably the case. The official Fifa license can be a bit of a hindrance sometimes.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Jamezinho said:
I'm all for that. Wrongly called/uncalled offsides, dodgy handballs, goal-line disputes - it's all part of football for better or worse.
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But having that wouldn't make sense because we are using technology :P

I bet if that happens in a game, someone from FIFA (the real one) would shout, "Hey it can even happen in video games, see? Technology isn't the solution then!".
 
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They do constantly try to get more freedom from FIFA about this and have apparently managed to haggle a tiny tiny amount of error out of them, but, as we all know, FIFA fucking hate technology.
 
Re: Fifa 11

There's a video on YouTube of Aaron talking about some CPU AI improvements, if someone feels like posting it up ;).
 
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I was crossing my fingers for some mention of marking and defensive shape, but the rest sounds good.
 
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Yeah this is just about opposition AI. They're churning out a lot of vids at the mo so fingers crossed they'll let us know officially what they've done with the defensive AI soon. But as I said it's much better ;)
 
Re: Fifa 11

Any takers?

Trance_Allstar - you about? I hear you have some free kick ideas. Have you got a link to anything? The key for EA to realistically look at putting it in is that it has to make sense in terms of real football. Other than that I think they'd be fairly open minded.

romagnoli said:
You can put it in the bottom corner as well of course, but I know what you mean. It's a tricky one. It'd be wrong to ask EA to create a separate saving logic for free kicks - the keeper has to use the same system for saving free kicks as for shots. So you can't just make the keepers spill shots or miss them entirely without impacting how they cope with normal shots from distance (although in those cases the keeper usually has the advantage of seeing the ball sooner).

You have to look at why keepers in real life might let one in at the corner they're covering - it's because they pre-empted that the shot would go for the other corner. There are also little things like the kick taker being unsighted (I was chopping an onion! But I think Endo's FK against Denmark was from a position where the second kick taker was hidden by the wall?) etc, but the keeper's own momentum is the chief issue.

So how do you put this into a game without leading to you conceding goals because the keeper moved stupidly, or creating a situation where the keeper is readable? If you left it just to the keeper then couldn't that lead to more potential CPU cheat complaints in the future?

You can move the wall and therefore the keeper at the moment; is the solution to make the timing and commitment of the keeper's decision making tied to this? Or do you make it player controlled in some way?


I'd be interested in us coming up with a detailed direct free kick system here - one that is much deeper and more involving than those in both PES and FIFA, neither of which have moved on from what ISS PE was doing. One of the things I talked to Gary Paterson about a helluva lot in Canada was improving free kicks, and he agreed that the system they have isn't great. He suggested that the amount you hold the left stick in a direction after charging the shot could determine how much spin you put on the ball - e.g. more topspin = more height error as you might hit the ball too 'cleanly' and hoof it up or end up hitting too high up the ball and hitting it into the wall. Less topspin = safer, better connection, but...well, less topspin. The same would go for sidespin. I thought that was interesting, though it could easily go the way of the PES 2010 penalty and be way too complicated, certainly for novices, with the end result that people just hack strikers down online because they'll never score the free kick. It's the sort of thing that'd need a lot of explaining too.

In Guildford, I think I said, the power bar was broken for free kicks so you couldn't see exactly how much you'd charged the shot up. I thought this was really good - shame it was just a bug. All it needed was some sort of yes/no indicator to show that the game knew you had pressed shoot (which is half the point of power bars) and it would've been immense. You'd have to get a feel for free kicks, rather than just filling up a bar to roughly the same percentage and holding the stick up and left.
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Nick Cave and others will tell you the free kick system from WE9 and WE10 was one of the best. You can score some great goals.
 
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The thing is it's no different to what PES uses now, or what ISS Pro used 13 or so years ago. It's not the system that has changed; it's the balancing of the shot physics and the keeper. It's still a system designed for the d-pad and very basic physics, even if you could score great goals (I scored some amazing strikes with Bobby Carlos in ISS PE2, let alone in the PES series!).

Edit: Apparently there were modifiers after all. I always took talk of that to be a placebo, like when people think that hitting low shots in FIFA is double tap shoot, when actually it's just the one tap.

Ah well - never stopped me scoring!
 
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Re: Fifa 11

tc811 said:
Nick Cave and others will tell you the free kick system from WE9 and WE10 was one of the best. You can score some great goals.
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:D Not sure if that's a dig or not?..

TBH I don't mine the free kicks, it's hard to say as I think in someways you learn how to score them and repeat but in a way is that not what you do in real life?..

I don't score that many but I only play MM with lesser teams and never get enough seasons in or money to get to buy the top free kick takers...

If you are a top exponent of the art in real life I would like to know what the success ratio is, I guess I tend to score 1 in 6 or so...


Oh' and you can score some great goals... ;)
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
The thing is it's no different to what PES uses now, or what ISS Pro used 13 or so years ago. It's not the system that has changed; it's the balancing of the shot physics and the keeper. It's still a system designed for the d-pad and very basic physics, even if you could score great goals (I scored some amazing strikes with Bobby Carlos in ISS PE2, let alone in the PES series!).
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I can't think how you would make it any better though, unless as you say to take away any aids and is that then just making it harder for the sake of making it harder?...
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
I always took talk of that to be a placebo, like when people think that hitting low shots in FIFA is double tap shoot, when actually it's just the one tap.

Ah well - never stopped me scoring!
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It's utterly incredible how that kind of stuff arises. There are so many... complete and utter wives tales which go around about how the game works - and a lot of them are quite hard to disprove.

Sometimes I wish that EA would just explain to people how the game actually worked rather than wanting us to work it out for ourselves all the time!
 
Re: Fifa 11

Nick Cave said:
I can't think how you would make it any better though, unless as you say to take away any aids and is that then just making it harder for the sake of making it harder?...
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Better than PES you mean? I think you definitely can. Better than FIFA 10? Oh hell yes!

It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that whenever I take a free kick within 30 yards in FIFA 10 I expect to score, and feel no excitement when I do. World Cup is an improvement, but as Rod complained earlier, there's no benefit in aiming at the keeper's side in the way there is in PES.

There are a lot of tiny differences between PES and FIFA, ranging from keeper ability to swerve amount, that mean that the system couldn't just be carried across and give people like Rodelero that combination of genuine threat and unpredictability. I think keeper ability should be reduced to an extent, with an element of guessing where the free kick is going to go in the first place (something PES does to allow shots to go in at the guarded post) but also that free kicks should be harder to put on target. Those are the two targets I have in mind, personally.

Besides which I know that Gary wants to keep some of that aspect of the direction you press representing the spin on the ball, so pressing down to shoot won't get on with him because AFAIK you don't typically take direct free kicks by putting back spin on the ball. It's pretty much always sidespin with a hint of topspin where possible.

I'm trying to think of an effective way to use the shoulder triggers, which are analog, to modify the free kick trajectory. I'm torn between modifying trajectory (L2 = more lift so less power to get over wall but also more of an arc and less inaccuracy, R2 = less lift so more power, doesn't come down so quickly and more prone to error), or how much spin you try to put on the ball (e.g. how much you veer from hitting the middle of the ball, increasing error). Kind of plumping for trajectory at the moment, though it is in essence what PES already does! Still, combine it with a hidden power bar and you can try and correct your initial shot. What I did like about Gary's initial suggestion was that it covers the concept of trying to put the right amount of curl on the ball, rather than the curl being on/off.

Dunno. Just thoughts. I'm trying to get as many ideas as I can off people and see what the best ones are. Someone on the official forums suggested the Tiger Woods golf swing system! Would be pretty weird to say the least. I wonder if anything can be done with that though, to make it more like a free kick. Probably not!
 
Re: Fifa 11

I don't like the idea of pressing anything after you hit the ball apart from maybe holding the stick in the direction you played for the most curve after it leaves your boot, but I don't want to see any stick movement to add spin or anything after the ball is struck...

It's a while since I hit a FK in PES but I agree on the keeper part I think a lot of FIFA suffers from the all knowing AI being too keen, you do feel like the game knows what you're going to do before you hit the button (I know this is obviously true but you get my drift)and this is very noticeable on FK's...
 
Re: Fifa 11

Sorry, none of that is meant to be for after the ball is struck. It's meant to be after you power the bar up but before the ball is struck.
 
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I think as you say the keepers need to have less of a clairvoyance thing (I think that's a word :P) about them and the players stats, weather and even importance of the FK itself should play a part in it...
 
Re: Fifa 11

Nick Cave said:
Ahh.. you mean in the way you get an image of the ball and pick the point of impact?...
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Kind of. Depends on which system you want to use.

Gary Paterson's idea was a bit like the 2005 system with the spinny ball, except you can't see the spinny ball and you have a limited amount of time between pressing shoot and kicking the ball to find the right point of contact.

My shoulder trigger idea #1 was altering how far back your player 'leans', which therefore means the ball starts off travelling higher or lower depending on which you press. So you can lean back a bit and use less weight when at close range, or get your head over the ball and use more power when shooting from range. This is kind of like pressing down on PES for more height or pressing up for more power. The min and max lean wouldn't be that different from the standard shot, but more of a subtle tweak.

Shoulder trigger idea #2 was changing how far your point of contact strays from the exact middle of the ball (based on what you press with the left stick). So the more off-centre you hit the more error in the shot, and the more centrally you hit the more direct and safe the shot but it also moves less dangerously.

I'm leaning more towards Gary's tbh. Personally the four things I'm trying to capture in one system are
-the power bar,
-the spin on the ball,
-the amount of spin ( = risk of error), and if possible
-a tweak of the trajectory.
 
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When can we expect gameplay videos ? Cause honestly all those videos describing the game without anything on the actual game is frustrating.The videos from Gary and Aaron are pointless without proper gameplay to watch
 
Re: Fifa 11

Nick Cave said:
:D Not sure if that's a dig or not?..

TBH I don't mine the free kicks, it's hard to say as I think in someways you learn how to score them and repeat but in a way is that not what you do in real life?..

I don't score that many but I only play MM with lesser teams and never get enough seasons in or money to get to buy the top free kick takers...

If you are a top exponent of the art in real life I would like to know what the success ratio is, I guess I tend to score 1 in 6 or so...


Oh' and you can score some great goals... ;)
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Not a dig at you Nick, I just remember you and Badgerman came to the same conclusion that free kicks in PES are AWESOME. Being able to curl left and right and altering the trajectory of the free kick with triangle and square allows plenty of manipulation of the ball. Along with random strikes on the ball, it really becomes an addiction when you purposely draw fouls just to place yourself 25 meters from goal and hope you'll wet yourself when that ball sails into the net.

I also love the fact that there are so many youtube videos on how to take a free kick in PES. One person's technique is much different from the next person's, and the great thing is people have different methods of being successful in a dead ball situation (Not under the wall with down circle, that's too easy).

To avoid being OT, can someone find out if you can still take good FKs with van der Sar?
 
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Re: Fifa 11

@ Roma,

Can they add the option to choose the 2nd kicker? Maybe it's my lack of knowledge about it but whenever I try a 2nd man freekick it never feels like there is any control over who is actually going to be receiving the ball. I always seem to end up passing it sideways and hoping the correct player runs onto the ball.

An improvement would be a more arranged freekick set-up whereby you choose the first and second kicker and the direction they are standing (left or right). Then you have the same set-up with the difference being a bumper+pass is a short lay-off to the chosen 2nd kicker or you only press triangle/pass (regular system) to pass to a "generic" 3rd man (who is positioned how they do it now around the box).

As for freekick system, not sure if so many "systems" is needed. I posted about it somewhere.....I would say have the basic system;

Aim is by directing the player before the kick, then you have power and at whilst power is being determind you can determine curve by holding/pressing the direction control. The only element I would add is a couple of modifiyers, a power straight shot and finesse for more of a "dink" over the wall. Everything is offcourse hidden (with maybe the powerbar having the same system of passing+).

I think the "soul" (can't believe Im using that word...) is in the combination with player stats AND the state of the game. Maybe they can incorporate the WC penalty stress bar (again hidden and used as a "random" modifyer for stats) that can read the situation. So it's linked to matchtime (5th min or 85th min), matchtype (league, cup, (semi)finals), etc.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Just thinking, since the new PS3 update comes with a video editor and uploader, will EA make use of it? As in let us save in the format we want then use the PS3 editor and uploader for the rest.
 
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