Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

Re: Fifa 11

Lami - should do. FIFA replays are saved in flv format so you shoul be able to muck about with the visa directly ia PS3 before then uploading to YouTube or Facebook. pretty cool.
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
Someone on the official forums suggested the Tiger Woods golf swing system! Would be pretty weird to say the least. I wonder if anything can be done with that though, to make it more like a free kick. Probably not!
Click to expand...


Hey Romagnoli, I am kind of humbled someone actively wants my opinion on this. :)

I have given this alot of thought in the past when I was most active with thinking of ways to improve PES.

The Tiger Woods system I have considered, and it was basically used in PES3 for the Xbox (which was the last game from KCEO if I recall correctly). I don't like it for some reason, I think it is too much with the gauges and such visible on the screen (if you do a literal translation from golf games).



Some of my prefered systems would be something like this:


System 1 (less agile). I would like some type of indicator visible on the screen where you determine the intended height of the shot. Preferably this would look something like the system from ISS98 etc on the N64.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiVgP7yO82A#t=0m40s

The reason I like this approach is that I would prefer to let you, the player, as clearly as possible get your intentions across to the game. If you have some type of arrow (not necessarily as long and "visible" as in the above clip), you will be able to clearly intend a certain height on the shot. Unlike the ISS clip, FIFA locks the camera to the aim when you have a player waiting to take a free kick, so the arrow is more just to define the general initial angle of the trajectory as the ball leaves the boot.

Once the Powerbar has been filled, I would like to use the same system of using the left stick to define curl. I think it works well and you can intend to get a lot of curl, or just a more subtle bend.





System 2

After doing alot of typing and thinking as I write this post, I have also "come up" with System 2, which right now I feel is the ultimate in terms of agility and fluidity. It would necessitate the use of the analog stick for defining the initial angle of the ball trajectory and also some other aiming. This would alienate the digital pad users, but at this point I feel it is time to design the game with only the stick in mind.

Variation 1:

Basically, like in current FIFA and PES, you have the camera behind the players as he takes the freekick. Moving stick left and right shifts the aiming left and right, moving the camera along with it.

When you have defined the general direction of aim, what you do is lean the analog stick more or less forwards to define a high or low initial trajectory. Basically think of it as still having an invisible arrow like the ISS clip above, but having it linked in real time to the angle of the stick tilt. So when the stick is not tilted forwards at all, the arrow is flat against the ground for an intended ground shot, and then as you tilt the stick more and more forward, the arrow will raise more and more off the ground.

As soon as you have defined your initial angle with tilting the stick, you then power up the shot with a traditional power bar, essentially locking the takeoff angle in place. The left stick then instead works as a curl definer up until the moment the ball is struck.


So the workflow for this version of the system would be:

1. Stick LEFT/RIGHT to define aim direction.
2. Tilt stick forwards more or less for higher or lower trajectory
3. While holding stick forwards, press shot button to power up power bar
4. Stick then automatically becomes curl definer.






Variation 2 (superior in my opinion):

An alternative to this could be that you need to hold Left Trigger to enable curl definition. This way if for some reason you wanted to alter the height fluidly (let's say you change your mind and might want to put it low under the wall instead), you could release LT before the strike of the ball to re-define the height using the stick, then again press LT to define curl. You could also at this point change the ball strike power fluidly. This would alter the workflow slightly.



So for example:

1. You use Stick LEFT/RIGHT to define aim direction in the unguarded corner of the goal.
2. You press shot button to power up power bar.
3. You tilt stick to define initial angle. You then press LT to lock the height control.
4. Holding LT now defines curl. Player starts his run-up to shoot.

5. You then instead want to change to a high trajectory, softer strike over the wall. Quickly you click shot button to define a new, softer power, release LT while re-tuning the stick tilt to a higher tilt angle for an over-the-wall shot, then hold LT for the final curl definition.


This system is very fluid and allows you to do changes like these. I would like some way of doing changes in aim direction aswell, possibly using RB/LB (these would be free and no longer be used as modifiers for controlled or hard Free kick anymore since the height and power applied will determine that dynamically (for example crossing a threshold on the power bar will move shot from instep to laces strike).



And, there is an easy way to change the aim dynamically mid-runup to a large extent.

In the above workflow description for Variation 2, when you first define the aiming direction using LEFT/RIGHT stick input, when you press the shot/lob/pass button this locks the camera from moving from that point onwards.

So:

1. You use Stick LEFT/RIGHT to move the camera aim to define general aim direction in the unguarded corner of the goal.
2. You press shot button to power up power bar to desired height.
3. You tilt stick to define initial angle. At this point the stick also works as a secondary aiming device, just like you would aim any manual pass in the game. So with the camera locked in place, you can tilt stick in any direction and with any stick tilt to let you do last minute changes to both height, aim and curl.




For example, as the player runs up to shoot, you could just use Y/Triangle to instead power up a throughball and aim it, like in the game, to a specific player. You could also change from a shot to instead mid-runup power up a longpass and instantly define a new aim and initial strike trajectory and Left Trigger-Curl for the longpass. The only change that would be needed is to pull back the camera a bit from the player taking the freekick, so that you can get an overview. AND, there would be a button that lets you shift between striker view and Normal In-game Camera. This system is designed so that it can actually be used with the normal in-game camera, since you can use the stick to aim just like any other manual shot or pass in-game. The difference being the stick-tilt and the LT-curl control.

So, with this system, there is basically no limits to what you cannot do. You use only any shot or pass button, the left analog stick, and LT. It also works as intuitively as the normal passing and shooting methods, you can change mid-runup to instead just pass back to a defender, or switch from a shot to a cross instead, and someone who is used to the system could probably do it in less than a second, simultaneously powering up a new powerbar to change type of strike, aiming and defining height, then LT for curl).

Downsides would be no digital pad compatibility. Also it would take some getting used to (however the new penalty system does aswell so I feel it is the right direction to go in).


Any error would be added based on player attributes, and I would like to see an improved error system to make sure that for example trying alot of topspin, like Rom mentioned before, will have more variation of error since certain types of shots and curls are harder than others. Hopefully a dynamic system can be created where they can develop a sliding scale where only the most skilled freekickers can do the most extreme curls or striked consistently.




(I say I thought of this, but to be fair this is how ISS98 etc also did it. In those games you could use the Blue arrow as in the video, but you could also with a button remove the arrow and shoot freely defining power with shot button and height with stick tilt).

Excuse the layout of this post, I spent alot of time writing lots of stuff so I am glad if it just makes any sense at all to anyone but me at this point. :)
 
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Re: Fifa 11

Hi,

I like these ideas, very interesting.

The problem is that I know Gary Paterson doesn't like feathering (half pressing) the stick. Rodelero made some references to the problems with variable dead space that controllers have, particularly after a few years of wear. Although that might not be such an issue if you can see where the game is aiming the trajectory before shooting.So, while I do think they're interesting ideas, I doubt it'll make it into FIFA :(.

If you can think of any ways to convert these ideas accordingly, while keeping the spin and trajectory options open for hitting lobbed passes too - then let me know! Otherwise I'll copy these ideas over to the official thread in case Gary P reads it.
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
Someone on the official forums suggested the Tiger Woods golf swing system! Would be pretty weird to say the least. I wonder if anything can be done with that though, to make it more like a free kick. Probably not!
Click to expand...

Yeah, that was me!
I'm not saying I've sat down and worked out all the finer details but I think the concept would work if implemented properly and it's certainly better than the current system.
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
Hi,

I like these ideas, very interesting.

The problem is that I know Gary Paterson doesn't like feathering (half pressing) the stick. Rodelero made some references to the problems with variable dead space that controllers have, particularly after a few years of wear. Although that might not be such an issue if you can see where the game is aiming the trajectory before shooting.So, while I do think they're interesting ideas, I doubt it'll make it into FIFA :(.

If you can think of any ways to convert these ideas accordingly, while keeping the spin and trajectory options open for hitting lobbed passes too - then let me know! Otherwise I'll copy these ideas over to the official thread in case Gary P reads it.
Click to expand...

True about the dead space for analog sticks, I feel that completely. I am personally more on the school of thought that if your controller is that worn, get a new one. ;)

It is very hard to adapt the 2nd system to anything but an analog control element. With LT being used for Curl that leaves the Right Trigger. But in my head when I imagine holding a pad and doing all these things I can't imagine involving both triggers, where the Right Trigger would also be depressed more or less, and left stick, and a button. From personal experience the left stick is very easily manipulated. Everyone has a base level of skill with the left stick and how to move it, and even partially tilting the stick comes quite naturally after just a bit of practice, your muscles are so easily controlled in the left thumb it's not a big thing to learn. Besides there is already "feathering" of the left stick in the game, when you control the pace of a player as he moves. Though that is just 4 or 5 levels of control so your stick would need to be pretty busted up for that to interfere. ;)


The only thing I can think of right now that could work quite well and where you don't loose any functionality whatsoever is a system where you move the height control to the shot/lob button aswell.

So, all the things in the system i described would work the same, but whenever you power up a shot or strike that can get height (shot, longpass or lofted through ball), you would first hold to fill up the power gauge, and as soon as you release the button to set the power, a second gauge would appear which starts from the bottom (0%) and moves up towards full (100%). One more press of the same shot button will confirm the desired height.

So, for example if you first power up to say 35% of the power bar, then then let the 2nd bar fill to say 50%, that will lead to a quite soft and fairly high trajectory. Adding top spin to this shot with LT + Left Analog Stick before the ball is struck will produce a high soft dipping shot, suitable for freekicks from 25 meters or so:

YouTube - Ronaldinho Freekick


Conversely, powering up to say 80% (higher power giving more error) and quickly confirming the initial trajectory angle gauge at around 10 or so % will mean that you desire the player who strike a very low driven shot. You could also obviously as in real life decide to give this type of shot backspin with LT + Left Stick, so that you get one of these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8j_gX9g3_c#t=0m12s



The reason I prefer the Stick tilt is I would liker to see the entire game based around it. But currently for set pieces only this system will probably work just as well. If you optimize the speed of the gauges and the time resolution the game can sense from your input I imagine someone could change shot type mid-runup and still have time to define both power and height, and with the manual definition of power, height and curl you will have a completely free system to use, and given enough practice and a good physics system for the ball flight and trajectories (which I feel the WC2010 game improved even further), I can see people being able to mimic real-life FK examples to a very fine level.


After this, the only thing missing as far as the freekicks are concerned I imagine is some system to mimic the slow aerodynamic shifts on almost non-rotating balls that make for example Juninhos long freekicks so hard to catch for goalkeepers, since these types of shots can shift dramatically in flight.
Also some type of anticipation system for the goalkeepers, dynamically altering their reach in different directions, aswell as reaction times.
 
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Re: Fifa 11

The deadspace thing is as much a problem with third party controllers as anything - but your suggestion wouldn't have the same issue. The problem on TW is that, the method is simply pushing back, and forth - if you don't do that perfectly it will apply error onto the shot. Some controllers don't really take into account the left/right as well so they just neglect it.

Partially tilting won't have a problem - it's the sort of having to move it through angles within a certain period of time quite quickly and looking at how accurately you do it that might be a problem - but in these it shouldn't be.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Trance,

cheers man. I've posted it all on the official forums. I want to hold out a couple more days so people can mull over your thoughts, any new ones people have, and what's already there. Then I'll send it Gary's way (if he doesn't read it already - would be nice to be able to put an alarm on a thread to say a dev is reading it!).

Again, I like the idea of stick tilting but Gary did say when we discussed free kicks that he doesn't. It's a good alternative with the second gauge appearing - which aptly enough is like the old method used by golfing games before TW came along (tap to start swing, tap at top, tap at bottom / tap and hold, release at top, tap again at bottom)...


I was holding the pad earlier and wondered about the idea of using both sticks, following the TW suggestion people were making. Just thinking off the top of my head but would there be any benefit in half borrowing PES's old manual stick charge-up system - push the right stick in a direction, the direction being the ball spin and the amount of time you push it charging the power gauge - and then pressing the left stick for a certain amount of time to change ball trajectory from a default angle? You could also have the option to press left or right on the left stick to tweak the final straight-line direction, and you could use the system to hit crosses into the box too - lean back and put some backspin on to float the ball in, or lean forward and put high power and backspin on to hit those low powerful long passes.

Would twin sticking be too much for the masses to cope with? Is this too gimmicky? Would it not really feel like you're shooting if you're just pushing an analog stick? One big concern that just hit me is that you can't really hit the ball without spin using this. But can you actually hit a stationary grounded ball with just topspin and no sidespin? If not then pressing up on the right stick could equal no spin.


...It's bollocks isn't it. :(

Ah well, worth eliminating from the process anyway.
 
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Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
Trance,

cheers man. I've posted it all on the official forums. I want to hold out a couple more days so people can mull over your thoughts, any new ones people have, and what's already there. Then I'll send it Gary's way (if he doesn't read it already - would be nice to be able to put an alarm on a thread to say a dev is reading it!).

Again, I like the idea of stick tilting but Gary did say when we discussed free kicks that he doesn't. It's a good alternative with the second gauge appearing - which aptly enough is like the old method used by golfing games before TW came along (tap to start swing, tap at top, tap at bottom / tap and hold, release at top, tap again at bottom)...


I was holding the pad earlier and wondered about the idea of using both sticks, following the TW suggestion people were making. Just thinking off the top of my head but would there be any benefit in half borrowing PES's old manual stick charge-up system - push the right stick in a direction, the direction being the ball spin and the amount of time you push it charging the power gauge - and then pressing the left stick for a certain amount of time to change ball trajectory from a default angle? You could also have the option to press left or right on the left stick to tweak the final straight-line direction, and you could use the system to hit crosses into the box too - lean back and put some backspin on to float the ball in, or lean forward and put high power and backspin on to hit those low powerful long passes.

Would twin sticking be too much for the masses to cope with? Is this too gimmicky? Would it not really feel like you're shooting if you're just pushing an analog stick? One big concern that just hit me is that you can't really hit the ball without spin using this. But can you actually hit a stationary grounded ball with just topspin and no sidespin? If not then pressing up on the right stick could equal no spin.


...It's bollocks isn't it. :(

Ah well, worth eliminating from the process anyway.
Click to expand...



Well, maybe not bollocks, it could technically work.

For me though, I do not really like context-sensitive systems, at least not when they can be avoided. I like having a set of tools that are as consistent as possible throughout different situations.
For me, the best system would be one that isn't too different from the usual ways to control the game. I like the consistency, and it doesn't feel like you have 5 different systems for penalties, free kicks and such. Since none of the analog sticks are used for any sort of ball kicking normally, i feel it would be awkward and a bit forced perhaps to suddenly use them for one specific thing. Trust me when I say that thinking back to older FIFAs where you had crosshairs that you moved along the goal to aim (Even if I wanted for some reason to hoof the ball out into the stands you could not aim outside the goal mouth!), and where at corners you would not control the corner kicker but some guy in the box... Brrrr. :)


With the system I specified you basically only modify the power bar to include a second height control, and the LT trigger controls the curl (which feasibly could also be used in normal game-play if they programmed it). All other controls remains the same, you use the shot button for normal shot ball strikes, you can press B/circle to do a more lofted cross type strike, and at any point you can abort a shot or lob mid-runup by simply pressing A or Y to pass or make a through-ball in any direction if the opportunity should appear. If you wish you could switch camera from the normal FK camera to the in-game camera for better overview if you want to strike a throughball to someone in the box, or you could use the normal ingame camera to actually strike a freekick on goal, since all you need to do is aim the analog stick where you want the initial aim to be (perhaps a bit outside goal so that you can accomodate for curl), then shoot as if a normal in-game shot (only adding a second button press to determine "height"), and holding LT to curl in a certain way.

It's quick, efficient, and in line with existing systems. For me that type of solution would be the most ideal, and you have absolute control over every aspect of the shot, power, type of ball strike and foot shape (shot, longpass, lofted/chipped throughball), height of the trajectory, and curl. All aspects that would influence your shot in real life.


Another way of approaching it would be to have some type user-influenced error system, similar to the new penalty system, but to me that is a purely "arcade" function, I am happy having a simple error system based on attributes. When I control the game I don't really want to wrestle with it or time pressing a button for a moving meter to hit a certain point. If the game aims to be a simulation then only the player attributes should induce error on my input. Obviously in real life Klose kicked the ball wide of the goal because of his attributes only, not because some invisible god failed to correctly time a moving needle on a gauge. So for his actions to be believable in a game you would need to model it in a realistic fashion.

Sorry, I just typed along on that last part. Just thinking out loud. :)

BTW I haven't said anything, but thanks for the amount of info you have posted in this thread Romagnoli. I enjoy reading your posts. :)
 
Re: Fifa 11

I fully agree about consistency of controls. I do remember the darker FIFA moments like the corner system - shocking scenes. I was way out of my depth with the right stick business, but entertaining the idea because the TW system had been suggested by a few people and just cos I know my ramblings were only ever going to be hypothetical! :)

Glad you're enjoying the thread. I'm still meant to be typing up a Part 2 to the Q's I took to the playtest! Anyway, thought I'd get you on the case partly because Stuartyd recommended you for your past work on free kicks but also because I remember your suggestions from my days on PESFan way back when.

I'm going to try and keep things in the Suggestions thread from now on, but I don't mind this one rumbling on in here.
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
I fully agree about consistency of controls. I do remember the darker FIFA moments like the corner system - shocking scenes. I was way out of my depth with the right stick business, but entertaining the idea because the TW system had been suggested by a few people and just cos I know my ramblings were only ever going to be hypothetical! :)

Glad you're enjoying the thread. I'm still meant to be typing up a Part 2 to the Q's I took to the playtest! Anyway, thought I'd get you on the case partly because Stuartyd recommended you for your past work on free kicks but also because I remember your suggestions from my days on PESFan way back when.

I'm going to try and keep things in the Suggestions thread from now on, but I don't mind this one rumbling on in here.
Click to expand...

Glad I am not the only one who has nightmares about those things hehe.
Theres only one way to brainstorm, so I agree that all ideas are good ideas. ;)
 
Re: Fifa 11

I for one don't like all the arcade curving with free kicks and corners in Fifa10. Why not keep it simple and realistic instead of right stick up, left with a press of R2 and all that crap. No power bars or gauges, just you and the ball trying to score with vision and feeling.

Just use the shoot button and let the strike be determined on the players attributes for free kick accuracy, shot power and curving.

Also a failure system to be implemented so that not every FK from for example Pirlo is a goal. Like the video we saw where skilled and low skilled players where shooting at goal.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Scorpio said:
I for one don't like all the arcade curving with free kicks and corners in Fifa10. Why not keep it simple and realistic instead of right stick up, left with a press of R2 and all that crap. No power bars or gauges, just you and the ball trying to score with vision and feeling.

Just use the shoot button and let the strike be determined on the players attributes for free kick accuracy, shot power and curving.

Also a failure system to be implemented so that not every FK from for example Pirlo is a goal. Like the video we saw where skilled and low skilled players where shooting at goal.
Click to expand...

I'm with you. Just give us the option to pick the spot to shoot the ball from and let the stats do the rest, plus the wind etc, gravity etc.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Scorpio said:
I for one don't like all the arcade curving with free kicks and corners in Fifa10. Why not keep it simple and realistic instead of right stick up, left with a press of R2 and all that crap. No power bars or gauges, just you and the ball trying to score with vision and feeling.

Just use the shoot button and let the strike be determined on the players attributes for free kick accuracy, shot power and curving.

Also a failure system to be implemented so that not every FK from for example Pirlo is a goal. Like the video we saw where skilled and low skilled players where shooting at goal.
Click to expand...


I respect your opinion, and at the same time humbly disagree. If the purpose of FIFA really is to be a simulation, then the game should give us the most amount of tools in any given situation to mimic real life. The word "arcade" to me signifies either doing something that is far from how reality works, or oversimplifying things so that you have less control than in real life. Your idea would mean, if I haven't misunderstood anything, that you only use the shot button, and nothing else? How would you then be able to define if you want to curl the freekick with your instep or the outside of the boot? You could design some type of system to let the Freekick taker himself decide what to do (basically what the current normal shooting system is, you give it power and define the aim, and the player does the rest, sometimes himself opting to use the instep even though you didn't hold RB for a Finesse Shot, sometimes curling it one way, sometimes another.

It could work on a base level, like the shooting does now.

However, the problem I see is that you would miss a whole lot of nuance. For example, if I am taking a freekick, let's say from this position:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Free_kick_02.jpg/800px-Free_kick_02.jpg

And want to shoot the ball low in a straight line maybe 2 meters outside the far post, in the hopes that someone will run into the box and deflect the ball into the net. If I then aim the Freekick just outside the post, how can i be sure that the player himself won't instead think I want him to curl it inside the post. If that it the corner the goalkeeper is guarding, this will mean that my player will give away the ball.

Or if I want to aim the freekick at the far corner where the goalkeeper is, but instead curl it away from the goalkeeper so that he will miss any attempt at reaching the ball, and someone can tap it in. What is the player instead decides to try to curl it towards the near corner instead?

In the end any attempt at simplifying the system too much will lead to alot of frustration. Since there is an unlimited number of ways to strike a freekick (determined mainly by the shape of the foot, height, power, curl), boiling it down to a single button will mean that you loose all control.

If this happens we'd be back to the same things many of us hate about the old PES games (and why I can't even play the old PES5 anymore, despite playing only that game for many years after its release), not being able to properly communicate our intentions to our players. It also does not at all fit with the current direction the FIFA game is taking, with for example the new penalty system which aims to specifically not just have you press a button and let the game do the rest.

Again, I hope I don't come across as a bore. :)
 
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Re: Fifa 11

I agree with T_A. There has to be a lot more to free kicks than just point and shoot. There's a lot more to it in real life, and when there isn't more to it then there's no satisfaction in scoring.


http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/...200468-fifa-11-goes-tour-uk.html#post16280611


EA_PWride said:
During the week starting the 19th July I will be touring the UK with the e3 build of FIFA 11 and enabling people to get hands-on with the new gameplay features.

Gamerbase centres in Glasgow, Manchester, London and Reading will be the venues for the tour with one venue per day.

Places are limited to 50 per venue and you need to register your interest on the Gamerbase site to be in with a chance of gaining a spot.

More information can be found here; Gamerbase - Fifa 11 - First Look Tour
Click to expand...
 
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Re: Fifa 11

How about a FK system based on the same idea as the penalties in FIFA WC.

I have never tried it, but saw the videos and it looked like they were adding a bit of Skill to taking pens.

Maybe that could be expanded on for FKs.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Shooto said:
How about a FK system based on the same idea as the penalties in FIFA WC.

I have never tried it, but saw the videos and it looked like they were adding a bit of Skill to taking pens.

Maybe that could be expanded on for FKs.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure. The penalty system is basically based on manipulating a "crosshair" of sorts and moving it to different points of the goal mouth. In a way you'd be back to the crosshair-system used in FIFA2002-ish or around there. Plus it would only work for shots, since you'd otherwise need to adjust it so that you can aim outside the goal mouth for crosses etc, which would take away the whole point of the system. Unfortunately I feel that it is a bit too specific for the penalty situation where the only intention anyone has is to put the ball in the net.

As for the timing aspect of the penalty system it could definitely be added to even the current Freekick system, so that you need to time a moving arrow on a certain point of a scale to ensure a clean ball hit or such. At that point you are sort of snuggling up to Tiger Woods though with timing-based systems (which I dislike, but it could definitely work).
 
Re: Fifa 11

I don't really like the timing part in the current penalties, I think that should be up to the player you're controlling. What they do now is basically saying: "This player has bad attributes, but if you're a good gamer you can override them".
 
Re: Fifa 11

Gab_ said:
I don't really like the timing part in the current penalties, I think that should be up to the player you're controlling. What they do now is basically saying: "This player has bad attributes, but if you're a good gamer you can override them".
Click to expand...

True. Ideally for me the composure should be dependent of the player stats, not whether or not I can time it properly. With the current design of the penalty system someone could train themselves and learn to always hit the green middle section for a good composed shot. If they scrapped that composure bar and instead programmed the player attributes correctly, you would end up with a system where experienced players (with better nerves and composure) in the game could actually be preferable to striking penalties, even if they have worse shooting and accuracy stats than more skilled, but less experienced players. And there wouldn't be a way for you to train yourself to escape this fact since it would be based on the attributes of each individual only, as in real life.
 
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Re: Fifa 11

Gab_ said:
I don't really like the timing part in the current penalties, I think that should be up to the player you're controlling. What they do now is basically saying: "This player has bad attributes, but if you're a good gamer you can override them".
Click to expand...

I like that. There is nothing more annoying than missing a penalty because the CPU decides that you should (people hate "cheating" otherwise, why not on penaltys?). It's the ideal way IMO - player skill combined with user skill. It could probably be done a bit harder, by it's the best penalty system by far any game have had yet. Would be horrible to add pure luck to it.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Dusse said:
I like that. There is nothing more annoying than missing a penalty because the CPU decides that you should (people hate "cheating" otherwise, why not on penaltys?). It's the ideal way IMO - player skill combined with user skill. It could probably be done a bit harder, by it's the best penalty system by far any game have had yet. Would be horrible to add pure luck to it.
Click to expand...

It wouldn't be pure luck without it. If you know you have a bad player (could indicate visually or by the vibration in the pad) you would be better off not trying to put it in the top corner. It would be luck based in the old system, but not in this new one where you can try to place the ball wherever you want.

It's very unrealistic now because you can take the crappiest player and put it in the top corner all the time if you're a good gamer. I don't think that is what FIFA should be all about.
 
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Re: Fifa 11

Dusse said:
I like that. There is nothing more annoying than missing a penalty because the CPU decides that you should (people hate "cheating" otherwise, why not on penaltys?). It's the ideal way IMO - player skill combined with user skill. It could probably be done a bit harder, by it's the best penalty system by far any game have had yet. Would be horrible to add pure luck to it.
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The thing is that I recently figured the system out. Completely. I can pretty much be 100% in putting shots in the top corners with any decent players, and I can be 100% sure to NEVER miss the goal, whatsoever.

You can try it yourselves. When taking a penalty, the only thing you need to remotely worry about is hitting the timing marker on the green section (which isn't that hard if you have decent speed in your fingers).

Once you press the shot button to confirm the timing, the powerbar will start to fill up. Once you release the powerbar, after just a moment you will see the player start the shot animation. As soon as you actually see the player start animating to take the shot (the very moment he starts the shot animation), press the analog stick towards either top corner, or bottom corner. The system is designed so that it will always stop the cursor after x time after the player starts animating (not taking into account some players having longer or shorter animations), and if you move the stick just after you see the player start moving, the cursor will always stop next to the post. So this current system can be WAY too mechanical once you figure it out, which also means that the player attributes don't play nearly enough of a role. So in order to be realistic, the current system would need to add alot more "luck" (or rather, error based on player skill), and at that point there is no point in having the player-influenced error/composure timing system anymore, since you have already coded the needed error/luck/whatyoumightcallit in the system, and it makes more sense from a design aspect, if you wish to make a simulation, to base everything to do with error on the players stats, as in real life.

In my ideal penalty system, I can very precisely decide where I want to aim, and what power i want to give the shot (as in real life), and then I need to make sure that my intentions are not too optimistic for the player (a defender might not be able to put the penalty in the top corner but would be at risk of hoofing it 1 meter over the goal, so I would need to aim slightly away from the post to compensate for the degree of error that the player attributes dictates. The new penalty system, once you spend 15 minutes with it and learn how it works, has in my opinion way too little error in it to be called a simulation.
 
Re: Fifa 11

I like that, the more you press a direction, the further across the ball is aimed. I don't like the idea of just pressing left and then missing because the game thinks you should. However I don't know if the invisible circle you move across changes size per player, regardless of the 'composure' bar.

Another problem is that it seems like you can max out the power without losing accuracy. That seems a bit odd.

Edit: What Trance said.
 
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Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
I like that, the more you press a direction, the further across the ball is aimed. I don't like the idea of just pressing left and then missing because the game thinks you should. However I don't know if the invisible circle you move across changes size per player, regardless of the 'composure' bar.

Another problem is that it seems like you can max out the power without losing accuracy. That seems a bit odd.
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I think better players might have a little smaller perfect green spot, but the difference is too small for you to notice.

The power makes the circle much bigger if you mean in WC 2010, haven't played in a long time but I'm pretty sure it's huge and red if you go full power.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Gab_ said:
I think better players might have a little smaller perfect green spot, but the difference is too small for you to notice.

The power makes the circle much bigger if you mean in WC 2010, haven't played in a long time but I'm pretty sure it's huge and red if you go full power.
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The difference in the green spot is huge between a really good and really bad player. However, it might still be a bit too easy - I think a better solution is to speed up the needle to make it harder rather than to increase the CPU control. And yes, full power makes it extremely hard to have much control over where you'll hit the shot.
 
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