lancers
League 1
Some UT crap.
Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3
- Thread starter jonneymendoza
- Start date
Some UT crap.
People scoring from corners just feels so cheap and annoying. You outplay somebody and get done from basically a bit of button mashing. Drives me insane.
Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Luton Town
I share the same sentiments. There's no chance that FIFA12 will somehow start to return to the same ethos as 08 (and to a much lesser extent, 09) because oddly, sales are getting stronger the worse and more arcade-like the game gets - not to mention having increasingly dull game modes. I guess advertising, image and licences plays an even bigger part than I thought. With more sales comes more attractive advertising, stronger licences, bigger music acts for the game's soundtrack etc, it's a vicious circle.
On the other hand, with PES, I presume that Konami took a big financial hit with sales decreasing after PES2009 and 2010. I still think that the overhaul in 2011 was only really prompted by poor sales telling them people had gone off the game.
Similarly, EA won't do any positive overhaul so long as more and more people keep buying it. And seeing as my local supermarket had a queue of about 400 people waiting on release day, I don't think that'll change any time soon. Which sucks.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
The Fifa franchise is now in a position where it effectively has no competition, even though PES is still on the scene. EA hold all the attractive licences, and when all is said and done, this is the primary reason why Fifa always has, and always will outsell PES if the status quo continues.
The quality of gameplay and depth of the two titles is almost an irrelevance. PES2011 is the best PES for many years, yet sold poorly and FIFA11 broke the record for fastest selling sports game of all time, the latter arguably not as good a game as two years ago.
The only way EA would experience a drop in sales is if it lost major licences, primarily the Premier League and the Bundesliga. EA has an unofficial monopoly on licensing (obviously the EU competition laws don't apply here) and Jon Murphy has said that nothing will change in the next 12 months at least. I'm hoping Konami cling on to the Champions League licence at least because it's inevitable EA would use it to release a separate game or monetise it as a mode through DLC.
As a Madden player I see parallels between that franchise and the way Fifa is heading. No competition = tiny gameplay changes each year, serious issues not being addressed and loads of pointless fluff added. But it sells so why change?
nerf
Forming triangles
I don't think quality is an irrelevance. It's not a coincidence that FIFA's sales have rocketed while at the same time PES has dipped in quality, is it? FIFA has always had the licenses and the marketing, but not dominated to this extent until the disappointments that were PES 2008, 2009 and 2010.
PES 2011 might be a return in the eyes of some, but I don't think that will be reflected in sales in the same year. It's more likely to have a roll-on effect to 2012. I expect there's an element of momentum with these things.
PES 2011 might be a return in the eyes of some, but I don't think that will be reflected in sales in the same year. It's more likely to have a roll-on effect to 2012. I expect there's an element of momentum with these things.
Gab_
I agree
- 6 April 2009
FIFA is big now because the "experts" went to FIFA with FIFA 08, it became "cool" to like FIFA and like nerf says, it takes time for the masses to catch on. A lot of the same "experts" have now gone back to PES and it will take a couple of years for some of the masses to follow.
If PES 2012 is as good as one can hope, you'll probably only notice the movement from casual gamers and magazine reviewers in 2014.
What I find annoying with EA is that we, as in sim freaks, have no idea if they will try to cater for us in the future. Jon Murphy said in a interview that fuck it, we understand we can't beat EA, so we will go back trying to make a game for the people that loved PES 5. So at least with PES 2012 there is hope I feel. Or do EA claim that the rumoured sliders in FIFA 12 will change the game so much that it will please the sim freaks? Because the sliders in their other sport games just makes a tiny difference, like polishing a turd.
If PES 2012 is as good as one can hope, you'll probably only notice the movement from casual gamers and magazine reviewers in 2014.
What I find annoying with EA is that we, as in sim freaks, have no idea if they will try to cater for us in the future. Jon Murphy said in a interview that fuck it, we understand we can't beat EA, so we will go back trying to make a game for the people that loved PES 5. So at least with PES 2012 there is hope I feel. Or do EA claim that the rumoured sliders in FIFA 12 will change the game so much that it will please the sim freaks? Because the sliders in their other sport games just makes a tiny difference, like polishing a turd.
So the UT update is the 1.4 ps3 and 1.5 xbox patches out now.
The Roster updates are out on the 23rd
And the mods on the Fifa forum have hinted there is a full game update in the works but no date confirmed or details.
Hmmm we'll see! I bet it's a 3rd kit for Lincoln.
The Roster updates are out on the 23rd
And the mods on the Fifa forum have hinted there is a full game update in the works but no date confirmed or details.
Hmmm we'll see! I bet it's a 3rd kit for Lincoln.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Of course it's no coincidence that FIFA has benefited off the back of PES's fall from grace. EA already had a product that appealed to the casual market (hence why FIFA has always outsold PES even when it was completely inferior) but with FIFA 08 they caught the attention of the hardcore football sim enthusiasts. Three years on and the series has failed to deliver on the undoubted promise of that game, hence some of the hardcore are turning back to PES.
Thing is, gaming has changed massively over the past few years, and the focus has shifted from catering for a smaller, hardcore audience to a mass-market, casual one. EA know what type of person buys FIFA and what they want (evidenced by the video a few posts back) and that person is not representative of the people here.
Gaming is big business and EA wants FIFA to be the sports game equivalent of the Call of Duty franchise. The game even the most casual of gamers buys year in year out. Therefore I can't help thinking that the gamechangers and anyone else trying to force change at EA are banging their heads against a brick wall. Because you're not the people FIFA is aimed at.
Gab_
I agree
- 6 April 2009
Yes but like you said, they have always had the casual people and the only reason they got really big is because the leader types that "half casuals" listen to did start to play it and tell everyone that it was the game to play if you know football. If they only cater the casuals again it will drop back to where they were before. People really underestimate the power of a small group of leader types.
The reason NBA 2k sells so good is not because it cater the casuals, even though casual people buy it. They buy it because the experts says it's the game that represents basketball the best way, and that it's the only game to play if you "know" basketball.
That's what I thought EA was finally understanding with FIFA 08 and the more realistic path of the game.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
This.
It's simple logic. If people have a really bad experience with a title, then that is because they bought the title in the first place. The next one will lose sales.
I kind of think the same about reviews of the games. The critics rate the games at a time when they're building on top of preconceptions from the previous title. Which is understandable when they only have a week with the game before the review embargo lifts.
EatonTJ
Why Today Doesn't Suck.
- 11 April 2002
I go the other way on this, I think FIFA (with its faults) is miles better than PES... and I think PES is clearly the game for casuals.
I can't see PES making any significant comeback in sales without some major innovation.
I can't see PES making any significant comeback in sales without some major innovation.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
You're entitled to your opinion but you're horribly, horribly wrong.
andythom77
"He deserves a kicking"
Sorry but you can't say that an opinion is wrong, you can disagree with it and thats it.
It is amazing to see the revitilisation of the official forums since the feedback/suggests area was finally opened. While it doesn't mean they'll listen necessarily the amount and quality of the feedback on that forum has exploded. Haven't had much time to post myself but it's somewhat of a redemption for that community which at times late last year seemed to have lost its intelligent members entirely.
Unfortunately opinions very much can be wrong. Though you are stating it's your opinion, you're making an objective claim which simply doesn't hold water from the briefest analysis.
PES the game for the casuals? That's a fairly wide ranging comment about the demographics which play PES and FIFA - and it really doesn't make sense.
Which is more liable to be 'for the casuals'?
The game with assistance settings so automated that you can play at a high level with absolutely no understanding of football
or
The game where the buyers are hardcore enough to not care for FIFA's endless licenses, or, are determined enough to download option files to mimic the kits, crests and teams?
Your preference for FIFA is up to you, that really is your opinion and it really isn't arguable - but to make a statement like that about the people who play them does require validity which your statement lacks.
Unfortunately opinions very much can be wrong. Though you are stating it's your opinion, you're making an objective claim which simply doesn't hold water from the briefest analysis.
PES the game for the casuals? That's a fairly wide ranging comment about the demographics which play PES and FIFA - and it really doesn't make sense.
Which is more liable to be 'for the casuals'?
The game with assistance settings so automated that you can play at a high level with absolutely no understanding of football
or
The game where the buyers are hardcore enough to not care for FIFA's endless licenses, or, are determined enough to download option files to mimic the kits, crests and teams?
Your preference for FIFA is up to you, that really is your opinion and it really isn't arguable - but to make a statement like that about the people who play them does require validity which your statement lacks.
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R
Rob92
Guest
Now that made me laugh out loud
.I have no idea what you're basing this on, the only reasonable thing I can think of is the difficulty.
FIFA on Legendary is possibly the more difficult game, but as I and others have mentioned, that is only the case for purely unrealistic, artificial reasons.
So you're on the "PES needs innovation" bandwagon - it's not actually that far behind. PES has 360 degree movement, manual passing, far better defensive AI, much more realistic efforts from crosses (not limited to 1v1 aerial battles) and much more.
FIFA has a few things done better, like animations and possibly spacial awareness of attackers.
If you can look past the animations, then PES is pretty much on par or ahead of FIFA in terms of the game engine...
As Rodelero said, opinions can most definitely be wrong.
It's an extreme example, but racists have opinions that are completely wrong - are you saying that you only disagree with their views rather than look upon them as wrong?
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Not wishing to jump on EatonTJ any further as I respect his opinion, but claiming that PES is more suited to casual players is almost factually wrong. Fifa is by far the more pick-up-and-play title, that offers an initial wow factor, but is much more of a game than a football simulation, lacking depth and personality, and in some instances gets the basics of football wrong.
On the other hand PES has introduced a semi-manual passing system as standard, something which was not introduced to appeal to the casual crowd, and can make the playing experience quite off-putting for the beginner. PES2011 takes a long time to fully get to grips with and appreciate. It's also a very tactical game, that rewards good strategy and use of your footballing brain. And PES has a much, much deeper and more engrossing career mode.
So yeah, saying PES is for casuals couldn't be further from the truth.
On the other hand PES has introduced a semi-manual passing system as standard, something which was not introduced to appeal to the casual crowd, and can make the playing experience quite off-putting for the beginner. PES2011 takes a long time to fully get to grips with and appreciate. It's also a very tactical game, that rewards good strategy and use of your footballing brain. And PES has a much, much deeper and more engrossing career mode.
So yeah, saying PES is for casuals couldn't be further from the truth.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
You can. Particularly when that's the opinion
.I was taking the piss obviously, but it just isn't an opinion that anyone who has played both titles extensively would think to form without the influence of hallucinogens or a knowing sense of irony. As I don't think Eaton was tripping or joking, it stands to reason that it's not based on enough experience with PES.
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kobashi
Champions League
- 19 May 2004
I didnt get Fifa 11 but the sales of that game are insane. The game is a beast and whether the Fifa team want the game to go in a new direction is irrelevant. Shareholders want Fifa to sell the most copies possible and that means keep doing what your doing now. A small percentage may walk away from fifa but it doesnt hurt EA at all.
It's the licenses IMO. If the roles were reversed, I would definitely buy PES because of the licenses. The licenses are a major part of making the experience seem more real, and thus immersive.
(PS I have only played the PES 2011 demo, so I have actually no idea what licensed teams are in the game - i'll just visit wikipedia now)
Fifa 12 only need to make the flow of the game more realistic, to hit the nail for me. Fifa 11 got a lot of licenses, huge amount of animations, realistic results (for me anyway), and a career mode that works for my playstyle (simplistic). If they can fix the tackling and tactic AI to make the gameplay more believable, and the flow of the game more realistic, that will be a near-perfect game for me.
Sums in up perfectly for me..As much as ive tried to love PES like the old days i always go back to FIFA full manual. PES just doesnt give me any excitement infact its quite boring
Burak_FB1907
Conference
- 18 August 2005
Ever since International Superstar Soccer on the SNES in 1995, I'd always preferred the Konami football games, every single time they would blow FIFA away.
Last year PES 2010 was still better than FIFA in my opinion, and I would play BAL mode until the early hours of the morning.
However, I was totally let down by PES 2011. The movement and touch of the players is horrible, a tad blocky and choppy for my likng and the feel of the game just didn't feel right to me.
So I went and bought FIFA 11, where I found the game play to be more fluid with a better range and ability of passing on offer.
So I'll soon be part-exchanging my PES 2011 for something else and hoping that PES 2012 hold massive changes in store.
Last year PES 2010 was still better than FIFA in my opinion, and I would play BAL mode until the early hours of the morning.
However, I was totally let down by PES 2011. The movement and touch of the players is horrible, a tad blocky and choppy for my likng and the feel of the game just didn't feel right to me.
So I went and bought FIFA 11, where I found the game play to be more fluid with a better range and ability of passing on offer.
So I'll soon be part-exchanging my PES 2011 for something else and hoping that PES 2012 hold massive changes in store.
No matter the platform you are on you can get the licenses you want fairly easily for PES so it's really a moot point for anyone who is determined to get the licenses. I have the Bundesliga, Championship, Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1 and so on, as well as a load of South American teams and quite a few European teams which are missing from FIFA.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
That's true but I think it's fair to say the average player is not prepared to go to these (albeit relatively simple) lengths to attain a 'fully licensed' PES. People like us on these forums are well aware of option files, but the mainstream player probably isn't.
So licences really are a big deal, especially in the HD age of gaming where games need to look as good as they play.
Vieirinha
League 2
- 18 February 2011
This can be reversed. Aka PES 2011 on PC has the Greek Superleague.... While FIFA doesnt....
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
It's not just about licenses, PES doesn't allow a league structure setup the same as for example UK League 1 with 2 possible promotions, 1 possible relegation, 3 cup tournaments etc. etc.
EatonTJ
Why Today Doesn't Suck.
- 11 April 2002
To briefly chime in...
Regarding which game is more "casual", I think several of us are using completely different metrics. What I meant was that the FIFA series aims to be strictly a simulation of soccer (as best they can make it), while the PES series (as always) spices things up in their own way (Master League vs. a management sim approach) and avoids the constraints of "real" football in order to make the game they want to make.
The difference certainly isn't to the level between the Madden series and the NFL Blitz series, but EA definitely caters more to the hardcore authentic simulation fan than Konami (not that ML doesn't have a lot of sim options, it's just not authentic). So that's why I view Konami for the "casual" player. Not necessarily in terms of gameplay, but when you start a Master League mode, it certainly requires a much higher suspension of belief in comparison to FIFA's (heavily flawed) Career mode.
Despite this being my original thinking, I've now changed my mind completely as to which game has more casual players. Having gone back and played PES 2011 for the last few hours, I've decided there is no way any "Casual" gamer would chose to suffer through playing it for any serious length of time. Clearly, only the hardest of hardcore gamers can still be wasting their gaming hours trying to squeeze any more enjoyment out of PES 2011.
Obviously, I'm being overly facetious, if you like PES more than FIFA more power to you, doesn't bother me. But I do think that for the majority of people, FIFA is currently the better overall game, much like PES used to be.
I think Konami's lack of quality with PES this generation coincides with all of Japan's lack of quality this gaming generation. Nintendo aside, EU/USA developers seem to have really dominated this generation of gaming, unlike last generation in which Japan seemed put out the best game's and technology.
Regarding which game is more "casual", I think several of us are using completely different metrics. What I meant was that the FIFA series aims to be strictly a simulation of soccer (as best they can make it), while the PES series (as always) spices things up in their own way (Master League vs. a management sim approach) and avoids the constraints of "real" football in order to make the game they want to make.
The difference certainly isn't to the level between the Madden series and the NFL Blitz series, but EA definitely caters more to the hardcore authentic simulation fan than Konami (not that ML doesn't have a lot of sim options, it's just not authentic). So that's why I view Konami for the "casual" player. Not necessarily in terms of gameplay, but when you start a Master League mode, it certainly requires a much higher suspension of belief in comparison to FIFA's (heavily flawed) Career mode.
Despite this being my original thinking, I've now changed my mind completely as to which game has more casual players. Having gone back and played PES 2011 for the last few hours, I've decided there is no way any "Casual" gamer would chose to suffer through playing it for any serious length of time. Clearly, only the hardest of hardcore gamers can still be wasting their gaming hours trying to squeeze any more enjoyment out of PES 2011.
Obviously, I'm being overly facetious, if you like PES more than FIFA more power to you, doesn't bother me. But I do think that for the majority of people, FIFA is currently the better overall game, much like PES used to be.
I think Konami's lack of quality with PES this generation coincides with all of Japan's lack of quality this gaming generation. Nintendo aside, EU/USA developers seem to have really dominated this generation of gaming, unlike last generation in which Japan seemed put out the best game's and technology.
lancers
League 1
I don't know if I would call FIFA a simulator as such but after having played 11 the past few weeks I will say that it is more fun and the graphics and animations are better. I can't say which game is better because that is highly subjective but for me it is FIFA. Hopefully Konami can build on this year's effort and become the better game in the future.
I would rather not have to go through the trouble to download kits and such. You turn EA's game on and they are there. This obviously appeals to more people. EA's AI is not perfect but I can't get past the non existent advantage rule, getting stuck on the opposition on free kicks and the constant offsides. Perhaps I and not a good enough player to avoid the offsides but they are much less frequent on the FIFA game than on Pro Evo.
I would rather not have to go through the trouble to download kits and such. You turn EA's game on and they are there. This obviously appeals to more people. EA's AI is not perfect but I can't get past the non existent advantage rule, getting stuck on the opposition on free kicks and the constant offsides. Perhaps I and not a good enough player to avoid the offsides but they are much less frequent on the FIFA game than on Pro Evo.
Gab_
I agree
- 6 April 2009
That's was my thought with FIFA 08, and maybe 09, but how could you still think this after how FIFA is getting just more arcady every version? I had great hopes for FIFA but the latest version is just moving back to where they came from pre FIFA 08. It's just not anything like football to me. I think that's why you had so many people writing about how great it was in 08/09 versions in this section, but things has clearly changed now.
My thoughts exactly except that I would distinguish between online and offline, completely different gameplay and mechanics
It’s an interesting point too that Fifa is more suitable for both the casual and the hardcore...essentially you could put a ball and twenty two people on a field who know nothing about football or don’t care to play properly and what you get is an utter mess, so there’s nothing unrealistic about a game being unrealistic if you don’t use it properly. If you play the game properly to the utmost detail, despite its deficiencies, you’ll see that it’s far better than any other game including Fifa 08 and 09. I have had to take a step back constantly, analyze what I think is totally wrong about the game only to see that the problem is primarily me.
This may be trivial but years back any time you heard a pro footballer talking about video games they would always rave about PES, now from what I hear it’s almost exclusively about Fifa (not including indorsed players of course), you could make what you want of that but I think it’s a genuine reflection of the state of both games more than anything else.
EatonTJ
Why Today Doesn't Suck.
- 11 April 2002
I've read this complaint several times from multiple people and I have to admit I've never quite understood it. I'm not sure in what way FIFA 11 is more "arcadey" than it's predecessors other than having better/more responsive controls. I suppose this could make multiplayer more "arcadey" if the human players use all the games dribbling moves all the time... but that's more the fault of players than the game itself.
I haven't dipped too much into online multiplayer, I play career mode and local multiplayer almost exclusively and I've never found the game to be too arcade like. I've seen videos of people playing the game likes it's arcade soccer, but those are nearly always mutiplayer and/or lower difficulty settings. On legendary, FIFA 11 is terrific and sim-like.