Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

[mfmaxpower]

I'm just trying to be both realistic and productive. Of course EA are not interested in creating a "sim game" - nobody is interested in making a pure simulation because it wouldn't sell. There is a definitive difference between a "sim" and a video game that makes the term "sim game" an oxymoron.

It doesn't matter anyways because any game is going to have unrealistic elements. That is just the reality we have to deal with. But that's okay. Is PES a horrible, unrealistic game just because it allows you to link four skill moves together and execute them by the most simplest method? I don't think so, and that's because Konami does so much of the other stuff well and with realism in mind. And that's the goal - to push EA toward doing enough that balances out the crap parts of the game so it's worth playing for people like us.

No matter the game, whether it's PES or FIFA, I'll point out something unrealistic and not "sim" for everything that is. It's all about balancing one against the other because the games will always be limited in what they can do by both technology and market demands. If it was at all possible I would love nothing more than to have a game made for just those who are interested in a more realistic football game but we live in a different reality as long as kids who make highlight YouTube vids are spending hundreds of millions a year on games.

**edit: but about EA not fixing the game and seemingly being spread too thin and acting as if its fan base are pieces of shit, yeah EA are a bunch of assholes.

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

@ Rom, Jimmy

I understand that. Tbh I loved parts of PES. Played a Copa while waiting for the optionfiles and it was great. Acclimitised to the movements and reaction and you could really feel the depth of play, tactics, matchflow, personalty, etc are all great imo. Then I started a ML (with optionfile) with Liverpool, as I have always done, and having the better/faster players made the lack of transitions so jarring that it was such a dissapointment.

And as has been mentioned by Klash and Max, the game would have been good 3 years ago but atm it still lacks a huge amount of technical polish imo. FIFA is the opposite, technically great but footballing-wise crap.

I guess my patience has run out to play either as I have a pile of other top rated games that haven't even been opened yet. Had either been at the level that we should be able to expect I wouldn't have stopped playing them. I just can't be bothered to make do.

*It's a bit sad, but I would actually be more happy with FIFA09 with just the daysetting fixed in MM.

 

[Vindaloo]

Is it just me or has the patch introduced 'micro pausing' rather than removing it? I had never had any kind of stuttering at all on the 360 before the patch, but had 3 in about 5 hours play last night. They're not game breaking, it only pauses for a split second, but they've definitely screwed something up.

 

[glen]

Is it just me or has the patch introduced 'micro pausing' rather than removing it? I had never had any kind of stuttering at all on the 360 before the patch, but had 3 in about 5 hours play last night. They're not game breaking, it only pauses for a split second, but they've definitely screwed something up.

Yeah its a bit odd. Several people have been mentioning it now appearing on the 360.

I never had it anyway on my PS3 but it was supposedly a PS3 only problem and now 360 users are reporting it.

 

[klashman69]

My friend knows what he is talking about. He has predicted every week who would be voted off of the X Factor...that just shows the pedigree of him.

My philosophy is if you judge a game after 3 matches you DON'T know you stuff

I thought the first match on FIFA 11 demo was awful. Still played another 30+ to make sure i wasn't doing something wrong!

 

[aitken]

http://www.ea.com/uk/football/videos/fifa11-tricksters-interview-2

FIFA 12: STREET SOCCER.

 

[BobbyBox]

My philosophy is if you judge a game after 3 matches you DON'T know you stuff

I thought the first match on FIFA 11 demo was awful. Still played another 30+ to make sure i wasn't doing something wrong!

3 games to my friend, is like a lifetime of playing the game to a normal person.

He makes up spreadsheets on every minute of the game played. Everything you can think off (and not) he goes over in so much detail. Then hires someone in independently, to carry out an evaluation on the report he has drawn up. Both himself and the independent evaluator came up with the same conclusion about Pes.

It was actually the evaluator that came up with the phrase 'Pes is like aids'.

 

[mfmaxpower]

3 games to my friend, is like a lifetime of playing the game to a normal person.

He makes up spreadsheets on every minute of the game played. Everything you can think off (and not) he goes over in so much detail. Then hires someone in independently, to carry out an evaluation on the report he has drawn up. Both himself and the independent evaluator came up with the same conclusion about Pes.

It was actually the evaluator that came up with the phrase 'Pes is like aids'.

Funny, my evaluator came to quite the opposite conclusion, and he is widely regarded as the best in the biz. Why don't you ask your friend for those spreadsheets and post 'em so we can figure out where he went wrong.

 

[klashman69]

3 games to my friend, is like a lifetime of playing the game to a normal person.

He makes up spreadsheets on every minute of the game played. Everything you can think off (and not) he goes over in so much detail.

I think your friend is a bit of a nutcase. Did he even bother to learn and master the controls? Or did he expect everything to fall into place?

And when i mean learn all the controls, does he hold the R2 button and press the left stick in the direction he wants to instantly control the ball in, stuff like that? Or did he expect the game to play like the old pes games?

 

[Rob92]

Surely you're not taking him seriously?

 

[romagnoli]

FFS Rob, shhh!

 

[BobbyBox]

I think your friend is a bit of a nutcase. Did he even bother to learn and master the controls? Or did he expect everything to fall into place?

And when i mean learn all the controls, does he hold the R2 button and press the left stick in the direction he wants to instantly control the ball in, stuff like that? Or did he expect the game to play like the old pes games?

I still can't understand how you can question my friend after everything I have told you?!

He has got EVERY x factor elimination correct! he hires an evaluator with his own money, to carry out a very thorough examination of the report and it's findings.

How many spreadsheets have you produced about pes?....exactly!

It doesn't matter how much you play a game, if someone has created an in depth analysis themselves and can prove that the game is not only not good, but is like contracting a deadly disease, then I know who I am going to trust.

Jeez, I really can't stand such stubboness?! My friend has all the information trust me.

 

[StuartCulli]

Don't be a dingbat.

 

[Jumbo_]

For what it's worth Robertbox, I believe you.

 

[BobbyBox]

For what it's worth Robertbox, I believe you.

There he is, tell them Jumbo how you make all the spreadsheets? Who is going to be eliminated in this weeks X Factor? make them believe!

Prove them all wrong!

 

[BobbyBox]

In all seriousness, I have played pes but not the full game. I thought it was good.

But I have been playing Fifa mostly since Fifa 8. I don't have time to master Pes again really. But I will be buying it in the future and giving it a good go, by that I mean not touching Fifa and just Pes for a while.

To me Fifa is dissapointing and I think EA are not telling the truth about alot of things and not admitting who their target audience is and what their aims are.

But in saying that I can also enjoy it and take it for what it is. Although I do think it has many, many flaws. I do think that you can play different styles and do have to approach it tactically to some degree. I think there is a difference in teams (not enough) and that there is a slight noticeable difference with personality. But it needs to be improved heavily.

The problem I have is that I love playing fully manual. The demo of pes felt limiting to me. But I know if I got used to it and it is as great as people are saying, then I could forget about fully manual. But as I said at the moment I can't be arsed to go back to Pes just yet. More through laziness and lack of time, but I will give it a good go in the future.

There is no doubt though that Pes looks like it will overtake Fifa completely, if EA don't start listening to the people they are pretending to listen to at the moment.

All in all Fifa can be improved ten fold, but I am still enjoying playing it for the moment when I can

 

[ibra77]

But in saying that I can also enjoy it and take it for what it is. Although I do think it has many, many flaws. I do think that you can play different styles and do have to approach it tactically to some degree. I think there is a difference in teams (not enough) and that there is a slight noticeable difference with personality. But it needs to be improved heavily.

Despite the offensiveness of your avatar which usually causes me to skip your posts, I feel I must say that is a good analysis. Well said.

 

[ibra77]

Is it just me or has the patch introduced 'micro pausing' rather than removing it? I had never had any kind of stuttering at all on the 360 before the patch, but had 3 in about 5 hours play last night. They're not game breaking, it only pauses for a split second, but they've definitely screwed something up.

It's not just you. Never saw micro-pausing until after the patch.

 

[BobbyBox]

Despite the offensiveness of your avatar which usually causes me to skip your posts, I feel I must say that is a good analysis. Well said.

Thank you.

I didn't know my avatar was offensive? I have had it there for ages, but it is probably time for a change. I will have a look around and see a suitable replacement avatar.

EDIT: done, much more classy now. No testicles to be seen.

 

[tc811]

Use this one:

 

[klashman69]

Surely you're not taking him seriously?

Fail by me.

BobbyBox you got me there well done,

It's time for me to leave that joke of a site PES gaming, I've been so used to arguing with, quite literally 'disturbed' people. I was like on auto reply to bullshit.

 

[Murkurial]

I'm just trying to be both realistic and productive. Of course EA are not interested in creating a "sim game" - nobody is interested in making a pure simulation because it wouldn't sell. There is a definitive difference between a "sim" and a video game that makes the term "sim game" an oxymoron.

I don't even know if the conversation can continue when the "a pure sim wouldn't sell (because it'd be too boring, etc.)" comment is thrown out there. And by someone who's opinion on EA and the state of FIFA I've come to respect a great deal, no less.

Clearly you realized that I wasn't implying that EA should make a perfect 100% simulation of the sport (as something like that isn't even possible) right? It's clear though that their focus isn't even on bringing it close to that. That was my point. It sounds like you're arguing semantics here a bit with the "sim game." There doesn't exist, anywhere in life, a perfect 1:1 simulation of any sport is there?

And when the elements that we want them to fix (gameplay-wise) are precisely those that would lead one to consider it closer to a pure sim, what then?

LOL, I guess crossing our fingers really is all we can do now.

 

[mfmaxpower]

No, you're right. And i see what you mean - it's a bit silly to consider you or anyone would be asking for a total sim, my apologies. My only point really is that of all the unrealistic elements in FIFA, the use of skills is not an issue for me because to me it's a part of the sport that will likely always be glorified and exaggerated in games. However, since I play single-player almost exclusively I can understand how there might be issues I'm not aware of.

I guess after spending so many years having little respect for the FIFA series, then switching to FIFA with 08, I'd like to not give up on the franchise just yet. I agree with you about having massive concerns regarding EA's intentions but i suppose after thinking that EA signaled a commitment to greater realism a couple years ago I'd like to imagine it hasn't all been for naught.

I'm really pissed at EA atm though much of it is due to non-gameplay things, mainly CM and the lack of communication. Still, I've promised myself I'd give FIFA one more year because I really think there's a fantastic game of football still to be pulled out of that engine and I'm trying to wait at least until we hear what's on tap for next year before I write EA off completely.

 

[Honome]

Use this one:

 

[PU6HY]

I've been giving PES a go lately but have now gone back to full manual FIFA.
Much better experience imo. I have seen some passing in PES that is even more pingpongy than assisted FIFA!

Some of the moves leading to goals are just complete bullshit with the perfect passing. Goalkeepers are very poor too.

On another thread I have moaned and moaned about how shit assisted FIFA is but even though some of you see flaws in the AI in FIFA, I still feel the overall gameplay is much better than PES especially, again, on full Manual.

PES is a strange one though. The ball movement doesn't seem to flow nice at all. It just feels as though it slows down to quick and looks strange. As if the pitch is soaked.
When you are building up play in your own half though, it doesn't seem as pingpongy as assisted FIFA and plays OK. Holding down L2 to go all manual causes issues when you don't have the ball though. I don't want to have to hold down a button for manual as I bet the oppo is playing fully assisted most of the time. I like playing on a level playing field.

Finding matches online takes forever in PES too. Not being able to quit out without quitting the game after somebody picks the top teams for millionth time does my head in.

MLO isn't for me either. Nor is CM in FIFA. I find building up my own team boring as hell. Not a football manager type of guy. I just want to pickup the game and get playing asap. Spending ages in menus bores the pants off me.

I wish Pro Passing was forced on at all times in FIFA even in unranked matches. That way, I might even join back into leagues I've left on another forum. As it stands, most use assisted passing and they honestly believe they are the dogs danlies at the game. I personally think they are shit as if they were that good, they wouldn't need all the help playing it in the first place!!! Doesn't mean they wouldn't be capable of being good on manual though but they are afraid their "reputation" might take a beating if they don't win every game by using cheap tactics and laughable unrealistic passing!

Anyway, jumping back and forth a bit but as it stands, FIFA is still my game of choice over PES and my copy of that is being taken back next week. Why spend time on an inferior game IMO. I gave it a go, and when the ball is at my virtual players feet, I find the passing (which is the main thing I look for in a footy game) to much more to my liking in FIFA... only on ALL Manual though.

In all seriousness, I have played pes but not the full game. I thought it was good.

But I have been playing Fifa mostly since Fifa 8. I don't have time to master Pes again really. But I will be buying it in the future and giving it a good go, by that I mean not touching Fifa and just Pes for a while.

To me Fifa is dissapointing and I think EA are not telling the truth about alot of things and not admitting who their target audience is and what their aims are.

But in saying that I can also enjoy it and take it for what it is. Although I do think it has many, many flaws. I do think that you can play different styles and do have to approach it tactically to some degree. I think there is a difference in teams (not enough) and that there is a slight noticeable difference with personality. But it needs to be improved heavily.

The problem I have is that I love playing fully manual. The demo of pes felt limiting to me. But I know if I got used to it and it is as great as people are saying, then I could forget about fully manual. But as I said at the moment I can't be arsed to go back to Pes just yet. More through laziness and lack of time, but I will give it a good go in the future.

There is no doubt though that Pes looks like it will overtake Fifa completely, if EA don't start listening to the people they are pretending to listen to at the moment.

All in all Fifa can be improved ten fold, but I am still enjoying playing it for the moment when I can

 

[Niero]

I've been giving PES a go lately but have now gone back to full manual FIFA.
Much better experience imo. I have seen some passing in PES that is even more pingpongy than assisted FIFA!

Some of the moves leading to goals are just complete bullshit with the perfect passing. Goalkeepers are very poor too.

On another thread I have moaned and moaned about how shit assisted FIFA is but even though some of you see flaws in the AI in FIFA, I still feel the overall gameplay is much better than PES especially, again, on full Manual.

PES is a strange one though. The ball movement doesn't seem to flow nice at all. It just feels as though it slows down to quick and looks strange. As if the pitch is soaked.
When you are building up play in your own half though, it doesn't seem as pingpongy as assisted FIFA and plays OK. Holding down L2 to go all manual causes issues when you don't have the ball though. I don't want to have to hold down a button for manual as I bet the oppo is playing fully assisted most of the time. I like playing on a level playing field.

Finding matches online takes forever in PES too. Not being able to quit out without quitting the game after somebody picks the top teams for millionth time does my head in.

MLO isn't for me either. Nor is CM in FIFA. I find building up my own team boring as hell. Not a football manager type of guy. I just want to pickup the game and get playing asap. Spending ages in menus bores the pants off me.

I wish Pro Passing was forced on at all times in FIFA even in unranked matches. That way, I might even join back into leagues I've left on another forum. As it stands, most use assisted passing and they honestly believe they are the dogs danlies at the game. I personally think they are shit as if they were that good, they wouldn't need all the help playing it in the first place!!! Doesn't mean they wouldn't be capable of being good on manual though but they are afraid their "reputation" might take a beating if they don't win every game by using cheap tactics and laughable unrealistic passing!

Anyway, jumping back and forth a bit but as it stands, FIFA is still my game of choice over PES and my copy of that is being taken back next week. Why spend time on an inferior game IMO. I gave it a go, and when the ball is at my virtual players feet, I find the passing (which is the main thing I look for in a footy game) to much more to my liking in FIFA... only on ALL Manual though.

I guess attribute based footies are not for you. Have fun with FIFA m8.

 

[BobbyBox]

I guess attribute based footies are not for you. Have fun with FIFA m8.

Well done, thanks for your insight, very mature.

 

[mfmaxpower]

I guess attribute based footies are not for you. Have fun with FIFA m8.

Nice response. Now what, does he respond by saying have fun with your robotic PES? And then we fall into the same old stupid cliche-filled debate?

Because saying FIFA is not attribute based is like calling player movement in PES robotic - they are both exaggerated claims used by fanboys who'd rather dismiss the other game than actually consider that their preferred game may not be perfect.

For the most part PU6HY makes a fair argument for how PES is still lacking in certain areas, and though I've been playing far more PES than FIFA lately, I totally understand where he's coming from and think he's spot on in some areas. To be honest, if CM was worth the effort I'm not sure which game I'd be playing more of.

PES's heavily assisted passing, for example, I agree is a major drawback after you become spoiled by the freedom and challenge that manual passing provides in FIFA. Through passing in PES in particular cheapens the satisfaction felt from putting together a great goal, while the button mashing arcade style that is possible in PES reminds me of one of the main reasons why i hate assisted settings in FIFA. Even the shooting system in PES, which overall I like, could use with less assistance imo, especially when it comes to shot power.

Probably the biggest problem coming back to PES after a few years of mostly playing FIFA, at least for me, is how lacking in polish PES is and the minor hiccups that plague almost all areas of gameplay. From animations to ball physics to players not responding to their surroundings to keeper gaffes, it is rare that a game goes by in PES that i don't see something retarded, the result of poor programming, and it pulls me out of the experience. None are gamebreakers for me, so far at least, but when you add them all together, combined they almost are.

So it's really no surprise at all to me that fans of FIFA would have enough reservations with PES 2011 to not switch over or back to PES. Maybe next year though.

MLO isn't for me either. Nor is CM in FIFA. I find building up my own team boring as hell. Not a football manager type of guy. I just want to pickup the game and get playing asap. Spending ages in menus bores the pants off me.

Although this comment makes me wonder why you bothered with PES at all - its strengths will never be a pick up and play game like FIFA. Sure it can be fun at first but so many of the best parts of PES only fully reveal themselves after weeks if not months of gameplay. For example, if you're not interested in spending a good amount of time in the menus you will never be able to understand your players and maximize your team's potential on the pitch like is possible to do in FIFA.

While your gameplay critiques are more or less valid, you sound like a good example of the casual gamer that FIFA but not PES will always try to cater to first and foremost. So really it only makes sense that you'd prefer FIFA.

 

[Niero]

Nice response. Now what, does he respond by saying have fun with your robotic PES? And then we fall into the same old stupid cliche-filled debate?

Because saying FIFA is not attribute based is like calling player movement in PES robotic - they are both exaggerated claims used by fanboys who'd rather dismiss the other game than actually consider that their preferred game may not be perfect.

For the most part PU6HY makes a fair argument for how PES is still lacking in certain areas, and though I've been playing far more PES than FIFA lately, I totally understand where he's coming from and think he's spot on in some areas. To be honest, if CM was worth the effort I'm not sure which game I'd be playing more of.

PES's heavily assisted passing, for example, I agree is a major drawback after you become spoiled by the freedom and challenge that manual passing provides in FIFA. Through passing in PES in particular cheapens the satisfaction felt from putting together a great goal, while the button mashing arcade style that is possible in PES reminds me of one of the main reasons why i hate assisted settings in FIFA. Even the shooting system in PES, which overall I like, could use with less assistance imo, especially when it comes to shot power.

Probably the biggest problem coming back to PES after a few years of mostly playing FIFA, at least for me, is how lacking in polish PES is and the minor hiccups that plague almost all areas of gameplay. From animations to ball physics to players not responding to their surroundings to keeper gaffes, it is rare that a game goes by in PES that i don't see something retarded, the result of poor programming, and it pulls me out of the experience. None are gamebreakers for me, so far at least, but when you add them all together, combined they almost are.

So it's really no surprise at all to me that fans of FIFA would have enough reservations with PES 2011 to not switch over or back to PES. Maybe next year though.



Although this comment makes me wonder why you bothered with PES at all - its strengths will never be a pick up and play game like FIFA. Sure it can be fun at first but so many of the best parts of PES only fully reveal themselves after weeks if not months of gameplay. For example, if you're not interested in spending a good amount of time in the menus you will never be able to understand your players and maximize your team's potential on the pitch like is possible to do in FIFA.

While your gameplay critiques are more or less valid, you sound like a good example of the casual gamer that FIFA but not PES will always try to cater to first and foremost. So really it only makes sense that you'd prefer FIFA.

Yousaid it yourself.

 

[mfmaxpower]

Yousaid it yourself.

Said what myself? Passing assistance from the CPU is not the same as player attributes. PES has a manual passing option with the use of L2 and using it does not all of the sudden turn off the influence of player stats. Manual passing turns off, or at least limits, cpu aim and power assistance, that is all.

Anyone who says manual passing is not attribute based does not know what they're talking about. Similarly anyone who says FIFA is not attribute based is just as equally incorrect. Arguing player attributes do not have enough an influence on manual passing or gameplay in general is a totally different though valid debate.