Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

glen said:
I can't remember the last time goal of the month was 4 people bundling the ball over the line from a ropey miss hit corner.

Those videos are more fun to watch and play than 17 passes between the back 4.
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If you like this videos and you're one of the gamechangers then I get why the game isn't changing at all.
 
........can someone please tell me what I'm suppose to like to fit in with everyone else on the forum?

Am I for example allowed to like jay jay ochca's rainbow flick? Are ronnie's hocus pocus acceptable?

Please feel free to post up an approved YouTube viewing list that conforms to everyones conclusive opinion.

I don't play FIFA like the people in the video's it's not my style but I do enjoy watching some of them just like I enjoy the mega factories bugatti tv show.
 
It's not the videos Glen, it's the fact that it highlights EA's consumer and how far away it's removed from us. It's not football, it's some FIFA Street BS that's totally contradicting EA's own message of creating a football simulation. The fact that this is what get's PR and how they want people to see the game is what annoys everyone on here. The past few years have seen nothing worth mentioning that indicates they are creating a simulation. Coupled with the lack of skill to actually balance the game, the bugridden mess the modes are and the shoddy technical state PES is in nodody has a decent footiegame anymore...and yet they are making millions for producing "shit".

You being here is a handy target to vent frustrations, but it's all aimed at EA in the end.
 
TikTikTikTikTik said:
It's not the videos Glen, it's the fact that it highlights EA's consumer and how far away it's removed from us. It's not football, it's some FIFA Street BS that's totally contradicting EA's own message of creating a football simulation. The fact that this is what get's PR and how they want people to see the game is what annoys everyone on here. The past few years have seen nothing worth mentioning that indicates they are creating a simulation. Coupled with the lack of skill to actually balance the game, the bugridden mess the modes are and the shoddy technical state PES is in nodody has a decent footiegame anymore...and yet they are making millions for producing "shit".

You being here is a handy target to vent frustrations, but it's all aimed at EA in the end.
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:CONFUSE:

Tell that to my poor thumbs and sleep-starved brain.
 
Yeah, sorry Tik but I do have a very decent footy game. It's definitely rough around the edges and has had a lot of server issues up till now but I'm happy that my football brain is finally, after 4 years or so, being engaged. I can see why others might not be content though.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
:CONFUSE:

Tell that to my poor thumbs and sleep-starved brain.
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I've never played the New Pro. But I just know it's shit. A friend of mine played 3 matches on it and never played it again and he knows his stuff.

Pro Evo is like aids and Fifa is like the cure for aids.
 
I think Konami was the KING of the soccer games back in 2000-2006 but then they destroyed. I mean they lost control.

And FIFA. It was joke in 2001, look at something FIFA 2001. It was complete joke and now they made a very decent game.
 
That video is an absolute joke and EA themselves promoting playing the game like that worries me for the direction they are heading with the game...

I know Bobby is joking/exaggerating, but it's actually not far from what you hear most people say about PES 2011 - it suffers from it's reputation from the last 3 years where it has been terrible.
 
glen said:
to fit in with everyone else on the forum?
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Stop dismissing everyone's perfectly valid and reasonable objections and complaints by responding in blatant EA apologism and you'll fit in just fine, we complain about one thing and you say well they're trying, we complain about something else and you say well it's because we're hardcore fans, don't tell me why I'm complaining about this, that or the other thank you very much.

Or you could just call me paranoid again and I'll continue thinking you're a douche on here (surprisingly not the view I have of you from the EA forums, strictly speaking).
 
Placebo said:
Stop dismissing everyone's perfectly valid and reasonable objections and complaints by responding in blatant EA apologism and you'll fit in just fine, we complain about one thing and you say well they're trying, we complain about something else and you say well it's because we're hardcore fans, don't tell me why I'm complaining about this, that or the other thank you very much.

Or you could just call me paranoid again and I'll continue thinking you're a douche on here (surprisingly not the view I have of you from the EA forums, strictly speaking).
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I said I liked a video.......and you went off on one.

I have issues with the game much of it rod and rom on this forum articulate better than I.

The sooner you realise I want a better game as well then I think we'll get on just fine.

You may think I'm douche but be fair I come here maybe disagree a little with how vehement you guys can be but it's clear you (we all) want a better game and experience.

What tires me is the fact I say l like a video and then get all this ea corporate fan boy fucking stuff.

Now we gonna talk about making the game better or just critique my opinion and whine about a score ticker?

What's interesting placebo is hurried in your rants are some solid thoughts I just wish you'd explain what would make the game better rather than just focus on a few things that are broken and bitch about them to death.
 
You have an oppinion ("I like that video") and I have mine ("I don't like that people like that video").

Why should my oppinion be wrong and yours right?

It's quite clear why people on this board doesn't like the video. It is not realistic and shows an aspect of the game that most of us would even ditch. If the efforts put on fantasy tricks had been spent on balancing the game, we would be much happier with the final product.

I don't have to apologize for being a hardcore footy gamer and I have all the rights to complain about a product, specially when we have been all the year watching and hearing EA representatives talking lies about the game. They have spent months in building hype about the "simulation" aspect and then the game had nothing of it. I have all the rights to call it as I want without offending anyone.
 
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I know it's a minor point but I'm seriously dissapointed about how many international teams have either been stripped out or given generic kits almost half of the teams actually at the world cup are either generic or missing.

No Serbia, Japan, Ivory Coast, Nigeria, Ghana, Chile, also Ukraine are now missing... and then teams like South Africa, Uruguay, Cameroon, Brazil, Russia, Slovakia have these nonsense kits...

Spain and now France also have out of date kits.
 
Placebo said:
Excuse me? Being pissed off that EA are forcing the scores of EPL matches I pay to watch thus wasting my money is whining?
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I pay to watch the games too.

It's annoying I agree and god knows why the option to turn it off is gone....but personally if it was me I wouldn't play FIFA till I'd watched the football or use the solution you did which was not to sign in to EA.

I guess for me the score is secondary, it's more about how the score happened not the end result so I see it as a minor issue. Unlike player growth which as you know is a fallacy and somewhat fucked. That's annoying.

@dekkard - I understand that mate, it's just I was lambasted for liking it so it's only fair I respond no?
 
I think the problem is that it's not tricks that people hate (or maybe they do but their boring sods!) its the fact how that's not how tricks work in football, you can't pull a billion ones off and they all come off, its about them being effective at the right times an being used to create space (something which the other gamee has this down to perfection IMO).

Watch any match by the likes of Ronaldo and Ronaldinho and their use of tricks isn't that much
 
Have to say, I'm with Glen on this one and I'm sorry but I think you all are blowing this way out of proportion. Football is a game, it serves as entertainment. As a video game FIFA is an exaggerated reproduction of the real world game, and as such will never be, or should be, a perfect sim. Same with PES. Look at what gets picked out for weekly highlight reels on tv - the fantastic goals and instances of skill. Look at the players that are most idolized around the world, are they your tough tacklers and box to box midfielders or most skilled players and wonderful goal scorers?It is unrealistic for us not to expect that what is glorified in the real world game will not be glorified in the video game version and to an exaggerated extent. Again, it's a game.

More important to me is how they are implemented and how they influence the overall balance of gameplay. Like Glen said, those vids are not my cup of tea. But you know what, I'll be the first to admit I find those vids impressive because I suck at skill moves. In FIFA I'm lucky if I maintain possession after a Ronaldo chop (partly because it's not nearly as effective as it is in PES because of the overly diagonal angle of the chop) much less string together multiple moves. For me, these vids don't bother me because on a whole I don't find skill moves to be exploitable in the game and I don't see them unbalancing gameplay. In fact if anything skill moves are not effective enough and I'd much rather be talking about how the unrealistic player movements and overly effective and exaggerated tackling animations DO unbalance gameplay. Maybe skill moves are exploitable and I'm not seeing this side of the game because i play single-player, but I've yet to see anything that points contrary to my own experiences.

And is it not more than a little hypocritical for those of us who are enjoying PES this year to blast EA for these vids when there's just as much unrealistic bullshit - if not more I dare say - going on in PES? Hell, I am a far better FIFA player than I am a PES player at the moment and yet I can perform tricks with greater ease in PES. Link feints anyone? Not to mention outlandish volleys and bicycle kicks. Or 30-yard defense splitting through passes? I find stringing together a series of passes finishing with a through pass for a score FAR more difficult and rewarding in FIFA (using manual controls) than in PES and yet in recent years I've played FIFA FAR more than PES. In fact, even if I wanted to I could not make a highlight vid like those for FIFA but with link feints in PES I might.

Does that then make FIFA the more sim game and EA the one more committed to realism? No because the fact of the matter is both games have major shortcomings and take liberties with the real world game, just in different areas and ways.

EA's job (and Konami's) is not to reproduce a perfect sim of football but a fun game. What i consider a fun game is going to be different from what you consider a fun game and from what Hjerpsethisthimus or whatever the hell his name is considers a fun game. Skill moves and their implementation imo do not unbalance gameplay and if anything are a little too ineffective to rely on (because of important imbalances elsewhere), so let the kids have their tricks I say and let's focus on getting EA to fix the real problems in the game. Flashy tricks are always going to sell games just as flashy players are going to sell tickets and merchandise, that's just the reality and it us up to those of us who care enough about the little details to keep pushing the companies in the right direction so that flashy tricks and volleys and other "less important" stuff don't undermine or dominate gameplay.

I am not trying to defend EA here. In fact, in total contrast to those highlight vids I've compiled about 30-40 of my own replay clips from fifa 11 that are all instances of things I'd prefer to never see again in FIFA, mostly focusing on animations, sliding, tackling, and player movement. If i wasn't so lazy and if I knew what (free) program I can use to put them all together I would have posted them already. Hopefully i can make that happen soon.
 
YoungGun_UK said:
I think the problem is that it's not tricks that people hate (or maybe they do but their boring sods!) its the fact how that's not how tricks work in football, you can't pull a billion ones off and they all come off, its about them being effective at the right times an being used to create space (something which the other gamee has this down to perfection IMO).

Watch any match by the likes of Ronaldo and Ronaldinho and their use of tricks isn't that much
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I'm in general agreement with this. I don't think the tricks should be done away with, but just make them less successful with more "error" animations added to each one. I expect flair players to try tricks to break open defenses... that's what happens in real life. But I don't expect moves like rainbows and sombreros to work with the level of frequency they do in FIFA.
 
romagnoli said:
Yeah, sorry Tik but I do have a very decent footy game. It's definitely rough around the edges and has had a lot of server issues up till now but I'm happy that my football brain is finally, after 4 years or so, being engaged. I can see why others might not be content though.
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I think what Tik may be trying to say is we don't have a football game at the moment that fulfills its potential or meets the standards that other games from other genres have set for this gen. Or at least that's how I feel. I enjoy playing both games, PES more than FIFA at the moment but i tend to go back and forth, but i can't help but feel disappointed and unsatisfied by both. Sad to say so quickly after their release but for me next year can't come soon enough.

On the positive side I have a good feeling about the next editions of both - PES because Konami laid a solid foundation this year and FIFA because they already had a solid foundation and I cant help but think they'll step up their game after this year's debacle. (yes I know FIFA sales are in the gazillions but I'd like to imagine EA aren't stupid enough to ignore the growing discontent of the fan base and I'd like to think Ruttter and the devs are decent human beings.)

BobbyBox said:
I've never played the New Pro. But I just know it's shit. A friend of mine played 3 matches on it and never played it again and he knows his stuff.

Pro Evo is like aids and Fifa is like the cure for aids.
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This post made my eyes bleed. I don't know what's worse: judging a football game after only three matches or trusting the opinion of someone who played only three matches.
 
mfmaxpower said:
I think what Tik may be trying to say is we don't have a football game at the moment that fulfills its potential or meets the standards that other games from other genres have set for this gen.
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That's more or less true but tbh i think we should just should stop thinking about what 'could have been' and work with what we have!

The problem is with PEs which i can see is that PES 2010 really should have been PES 6 on the xbox and this game we play now should have been PEs 2008!

So i get it. This PES could have been made three years ago and we should have a much more advance game now.

As with FIFA since 08 it's been taking 1-2 steps forward and double amount of steps backwards! The game seems to go all out for pleasing casuals and ignores people who want a game a even resembles football! Even without the individuality i think sim players like us would be happy to play FIFA if it had those fantastic fundamentals that FIFA 08 had!

So when it comes to the sliders I'd say for FIFA 12. Hopefully we could have a setting which augments all the fundamentals in turning, foot planting, ball physics, inertia etc.. back to how it was in FIFA 08. That's what i want from FIFA 12 and i believe that's a realistic aim for the team to produce.
 
EatonTJ said:
I'm in general agreement with this. I don't think the tricks should be done away with, but just make them less successful with more "error" animations added to each one. I expect flair players to try tricks to break open defenses... that's what happens in real life. But I don't expect moves like rainbows and sombreros to work with the level of frequency they do in FIFA.
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Do they though? Maybe I'm not seeing this because I rarely play with top teams?

Hell, my feelings have been that i don't like how at the moment they restrict your ability to attempt a skill move based on star rating - ratings imo should dictate success rate not ability to attempt a trick.

Again, maybe it's because my most recent CM is in France's Ligue 2 but I struggle to pull off the most basic moves.

Also, maybe I have a different opinion because skill moves are far less effective against CPU opponents than they are against human opponents? If that's the case then maybe there are gameplay imbalances in h2h matches im not aware of as a single player, um, player.
 
klashman69 said:
That's more or less true but tbh i think we should just should stop thinking about what 'could have been' and work with what we have!

The problem is with PEs which i can see is that PES 2010 really should have been PES 6 on the xbox and this game we play now should have been PEs 2008!

So i get it. This PES could have been made three years ago and we should have a much more advance game now.

As with FIFA since 08 it's been taking 1-2 steps forward and double amount of steps backwards! The game seems to go all out for pleasing casuals and ignores people who want a game a even resembles football! Even without the individuality i think sim players like us would be happy to play FIFA if it had those fantastic fundamentals that FIFA 08 had!

So when it comes to the sliders I'd say for FIFA 12. Hopefully we could have a setting which augments all the fundamentals in turning, foot planting, ball physics, inertia etc.. back to how it was in FIFA 08. That's what i want from FIFA 12 and i believe that's a realistic aim for the team to produce.
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Sliders will NOT be enough. Animation movements, momentum, foot planting... some of these issues must be built into the core of the game to work. You cannot have on/off switches for things like two-footed hop skip tackling animations, players sliding on the pitch, or unrealistic collisions. It's either in the game or not. Some of the most serious issues FIFA has is not about casual vs hardcore, like those i just mentioned, and need to be eradicated from the game entirely.
 
mfmaxpower said:
Sliders will NOT be enough. Animation movements, momentum, foot planting... some of these issues must be built into the core of the game to work. You cannot have on/off switches for things like two-footed hop skip tackling animations, players sliding on the pitch, or unrealistic collisions. It's either in the game or not. Some of the most serious issues FIFA has is not about casual vs hardcore, like those i just mentioned, and need to be eradicated from the game entirely.
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That was my initial impression of what needed to happen. but i don't know much about programming so i don't know if it's possible or not to make sliders effective in this area.

I was thinking along the lines of putting all the animations, momentum stuff etc.. in. Getting it to work to a realsitic scale then finally work on how to tone it down etc.. for slider use :)
 
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Noticeable exploits need to be addressed/fixed also. Maybe I'm crazy, but side foot accuracy just seems ridiculous. It's all I ever see anyone shoot with online, trick trick trick, cutback, side foot.
Someone mentioned it in the thread earlier, but tricks need a chance to fail, either the player doesn't hit the ball correctly, misses it, or whatever. Playing clubs is just headache inducing. Something needs to be done to make passing worth it for these teenagers online. And not just the shitty VP achievements either, passing needs to be a means to an end. I'm tired of watching little Timmy the right back parading up the field with roulettes, flick-flacks and rainbow flicks only to take an inside foot shot that the keeper doesn't even move for.
Then I finally receive the ball and no less than six opposition players have come at me from various angles to throw down some NFL linebacker tackle, and they're off with the ball.
 
mfmaxpower said:
This post made my eyes bleed. I don't know what's worse: judging a football game after only three matches or trusting the opinion of someone who played only three matches.
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My friend knows what he is talking about. He has predicted every week who would be voted off of the X Factor...that just shows the pedigree of him.
 
daikirai said:
Noticeable exploits need to be addressed/fixed also. Maybe I'm crazy, but side foot accuracy just seems ridiculous. It's all I ever see anyone shoot with online, trick trick trick, cutback, side foot.
Someone mentioned it in the thread earlier, but tricks need a chance to fail, either the player doesn't hit the ball correctly, misses it, or whatever. Playing clubs is just headache inducing. Something needs to be done to make passing worth it for these teenagers online. And not just the shitty VP achievements either, passing needs to be a means to an end. I'm tired of watching little Timmy the right back parading up the field with roulettes, flick-flacks and rainbow flicks only to take an inside foot shot that the keeper doesn't even move for.
Then I finally receive the ball and no less than six opposition players have come at me from various angles to throw down some NFL linebacker tackle, and they're off with the ball.
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Hmm, then sounds like the role of tricks online is quite different than single player. My experience has been that defending is so over-powered this year that stopping dribblers is pretty damn easy and passing is more than worth it. Maybe this is down to minimal error and momentum allowing for unrealistically fast reactions by CPU defenders - human controlled defenders will never be able to act as quickly thus they're more likely to overshoot a dribbler or leave a little extra space for a dribbler to exploit.

If tricks are going to be further limited online - I was already unhappy to see how far fewer players have 5 star ratings than list year - then it needs to be done in way that doesn't further take some of the flair out of the single player experience.

Maybe for online VPs should have a cap of how many times they can use skill moves per match or something, so it becomes more about making sure you make the best of your limited chances? Almost like how many games will have special abilities that can only be used so many times, either through a regen power bar or limited ammunition even.

I guess because I'm offline i don't see skills as much of an exploit as they once were. Are all online players seeing skills exploited all the time? I'm just shocked because i find defending so ridiculously simple this year and don't even bother using the tackle and teammate press buttons anymore.
 
It's no so much that it's impossible to stop, although it is different online, because it's human/human not human/cpu, so there is a delay in processing/reacting to the trick, or possible tricks. I also don't hold down the pressure/secondary pressure buttons. I just try to play in a position to intercept pass or be prepared to make a tackle of someone decides to trick towards me.
I'm more upset that the game rewards these things so much, and makes them so easy to do, that everyone who gets online wants to do them. Also the VP achievements are part of this "beat 5 players with tricks, no problem!", they encourage this behavior, so when someone ends up at goalie, he still goes for the achievement, or a right back will, etc.
Everyone is either 6'8" or 5'4" online also. I just want to see error in the tricks, and some new way of building your VP I guess. I have no idea what should be done at the moment, I just know it has to change. It's ridiculous as it is now. Players are rewarded for tricking their way up the field and firing off as many shots as possible from any distance/angle they feel their cheesing might score from.

I like what they did this year as far as your VPs position limiting some stats, but that needs to be taken further, I don't want to see goalies with five star tricks, or 6'8" fullbacks doing roulettes either. Also no more white, blue, red, green whatever hair please. For fucks sake, and stick to black gloves, I don't need to see xXskills2killzXx with a yellow afro, one red glove, one blue glove, and lime green shoes.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
mfmaxpower said:
Skill moves and their implementation imo do not unbalance gameplay and if anything are a little too ineffective to rely on (because of important imbalances elsewhere), so let the kids have their tricks I say and let's focus on getting EA to fix the real problems in the game. Flashy tricks are always going to sell games just as flashy players are going to sell tickets and merchandise, that's just the reality and it us up to those of us who care enough about the little details to keep pushing the companies in the right direction so that flashy tricks and volleys and other "less important" stuff don't undermine or dominate gameplay.
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I keep hearing that part in bold and I keep wondering how that works? We tell EA what's wrong. They don't fix it. They add new trick moves. They put tricksters up on a pedestal in official interview videos. Or they create a defending tutorial where they explicitly state that holding the press button is the way to play defense.

You don't think that bringing this cheesy shit to the fore hampers the game's image and overall direction at all? At the very least it's indicative of how they want the game to be received. Polyphony Digital aren't looking to bring the Burnout crowd to Gran Turismo. They're about sim and they promote the game as such.

Problems still aren't addressed (they've done NOTHING with this most recent patch) and yet we get Ultimate Team being promoted, we get that abortion of a mode in Creation Center promoted. We get douchebags pulling off trick moves in situations where nobody would try then, and when they shouldn't work...being promoted.

And all the while...nothing's being fixed.

I don't think it hurts to come to the realization that EA don't really give a fuck about making a sim game.
 
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