Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

Re: Fifa 11

ant0n said:
injuries? why?
Click to expand...

Last I heard there were injuries in real life, so it does seem like a fit for a realistic simulator.

And yes, I agree. It really should be in, maybe as an option to toggle on/off in unranked matches for people that doesn't like realism.
 
Re: Fifa 11

I remember Fifa in the 90's used to have the option to toggle on/off cards and injuries, and also choose between arcade or simulation.
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
I didn't check what the sub-ratings were but the star system is still in. Obviously there's a lot more to each team than that now.

There isn't a randomly generated form system like PES's arrows - what you're talking about is basically Live Season.

I strongly recommend you do read through this thread, there's an awful lot of improvement over FIFA 10 and World Cup.
Click to expand...

I'll read through it.

That's a shame it's one aspect of FIFA that always felt a little bit lazy to me and simplistic to me. I'd rather have a graph of the teams attributes and judge from their for myself as to whether or not that they are a good team. I can't really ignore the star system as i have no other basis for judging how good a team is.

I meant anything but the current Live Season formula in truth. Live season is a good idea in theory but it changes too quickly and players don't go down enough, they just go up and up. It isn't exactly fun when Rooney goes from 92 to 97. Him at 92 overall was a representation of him in top form to begin with i don't need or want him going up anymore. I wish it was more of representation of the player of a prolonged period of time, not a constant shift from week to week. Then again that isn't the same as randomly generating form from match to match i guess.

Randomly generated form is really simplistic admittedly but atleast it means i don't feel compelled to play the first XI all the time. I wouldn't want it to follow PES' example though, i thought EA might have some ideas of their own.
 
Last edited:
Re: Fifa 11

Lami said:
I remember Fifa in the 90's used to have the option to toggle on/off cards and injuries, and also choose between arcade or simulation.
Click to expand...

I played fifa 2003 on my gamecube the other week, it had this feature but i couldn't exactly tell what it did.
 
Re: Fifa 11

I think it's here where I explain why I think the menus are making very little progress.

I don't think Rooney is a 92 but I take your point. I like Live Season but ATM it's fairly pointless if the stats aren't being used properly. I think EA see live season as their version of PES's arrows tbh, I imagine they think they've already covered that area for better or worse.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Leo said:
Last I heard there were injuries in real life, so it does seem like a fit for a realistic simulator.

And yes, I agree. It really should be in, maybe as an option to toggle on/off in unranked matches for people that doesn't like realism.
Click to expand...
Let me know how you feel about it when you get see you next tuesdays taking out your best players.
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
I imagine it'll be used for every other player. As for your own player? Dunno. I guess they could use the positioning arrows to tell you that you should be moving from place to place quicker, but otherwise work rate is the sort of attribute that only affects CPU control.
Click to expand...
I look at this way:
For human controlled players that have this trait they will obviously have more stamina and a higher aggression so it is basically like having 100% aggression in your custom tactics.

Don't know if you addressed the implementation of the trait but it was just a concern I had with it. Don't want more BS like custom tactics.
 
Last edited:
Re: Fifa 11

ant0n said:
I look at this way:
For human controlled players that have this trait they will obviously have more stamina and a higher aggression so it is basically like having 100% aggression in your custom tactics.
Click to expand...
Work rate (an attribute, not a trait) will be a CPU-only attribute, like Vision presumably is. It can't impact on a human-controlled player, it wouldn't make sense.

I could be wrong, but similarly I've seen no evidence that the Aggression setting in Custom Tactics has any impact on human-controlled players. That setting instructs CPU players how aggressively to close down and launch into tackles, which is all down to you if you're in control.
 
Re: Fifa 11

ant0n said:
injuries? why?
Click to expand...

Leo said:
Last I heard there were injuries in real life, so it does seem like a fit for a realistic simulator.

And yes, I agree. It really should be in, maybe as an option to toggle on/off in unranked matches for people that doesn't like realism.
Click to expand...

ant0n said:
Let me know how you feel about it when you get see you next tuesdays taking out your best players.
Click to expand...


:P If it happens in real life it should be in FIFA, I'd also like to see training injuries in there along with a whole host of other things that would go to make up a far more realistic MM...
 
Re: Fifa 11

nerf said:
Work rate (an attribute, not a trait) will be a CPU-only attribute, like Vision presumably is. It can't impact on a human-controlled player, it wouldn't make sense.

I could be wrong, but similarly I've seen no evidence that the Aggression setting in Custom Tactics has any impact on human-controlled players. That setting instructs CPU players how aggressively to close down and launch into tackles, which is all down to you if you're in control.
Click to expand...

I think Vision SHOULD make an impact. For example, for players with low Vision rate, further imprecision should be applied on passing for longer passes or passes between many defenders.

But I understand right now is very hard to implement properly and it's not a prioritym so it sohuld be ditched for Human players as you say.

About AGGRESSION, it should make an impact as well to your CPU mates. I mean, your CPU should be able to tackle or barge for the ball when near an opponent even if you're not there, right? That's one of the things I thought they were improving: your team CPU players should make the same things every other CPU player can do. Human input should impact only your controlled player, everything around should be aware and act the same way and applying the same stats/tactics/etc...
 
Re: Fifa 11

Drekk,

What I said is that the friendly CPU does a lot less ball watching and actually follows the play, breaking out of their position to intercept a loose ball. I didn't say it was like playing BAP - you'll still have to use 2nd pressure at the right time if you want the CPU to make a tackle, or switch to them yourself and get stuck in. But when defending as a back four, you don't feel like you're having to babysit three other idiots. You feel like everyone's covering their man.

Your team mates are much more proactive, but not to the point where the CPU just runs in and tackles for you. Presumably Konami or EA could do that quite easily, but it wouldn't make sense - you wouldn't feel you were playing 1 v 1 at all. It'd be like playing single player vs the CPU but with one human player on their side. Besides, can you imagine how mental the forums would go if a team-mate kept giving away penalties when you hadn't pressed anything?


Oh, and for vision, I always thought it should still be a factor in being able to pass behind or to the side of you, since you need to be able to read the game to understand where your team-mates will be in a few seconds of movement. But yes, otherwise, it is probably best ditched for human players.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Oh, well, you're right about CPU not making an effort to go for a given player. But there are a lot of situation that I would like my CPU player to be smart enough to tackle if the opponent is just at his side with the ball, not just let him go through. Mainly I was aiming for that kind of situations, not full-time like you described. Sorry for a bad explanation earlier.

So the right question should have been:
Is there any kind of scenario where CPU players of my team CAN tackle and gain possession? Or a CPU will let the opponent go though if you don't control him and tackle yourself? It's a tricky one...
 
Re: Fifa 11

ant0n said:
Let me know how you feel about it when you get see you next tuesdays taking out your best players.
Click to expand...

I'd feel about the same. Apparently there is this thing called yellow and red cards in football to counter these things, they have been used for some time now in real life with great success. I think they should be able to solve this problem in football simulators also.
 
Re: Fifa 11

I think I've said before that the CPU AI definitely jockeys now. Valencia and Felt her were up in my face even though the player 2 pad was on the floor, and the jockeying AI certainly stuck the boot in where appropriate.
 
Re: Fifa 11

To the boys who have been to the play test did you notice if the refs are still extremely bias to the AI and if the AI (even shit teams) make bullshit slide tackles that somehow get the ball ?
 
Re: Fifa 11

I don't notice half this "scripting", but then I'm not very observational at the best of times. Only thing that bothers me is when they play keep ball when they're leading, they're far far too good at that
 
Re: Fifa 11

It's the most irritating thing in the world. If they can't balance it better, I'd rather they just ripped it out wholesale.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Wilkmyster said:
I don't notice half this "scripting", but then I'm not very observational at the best of times. Only thing that bothers me is when they play keep ball when they're leading, they're far far too good at that
Click to expand...

I mentioned this to Gary fairly early on in Canada. On reflection I'm not sure if I made enough of a point of it. I don't even mind that there's a boost in the AI's decision making towards the end of the match, but I'd much rather it felt like it scaled with a human player raising their game at the end of the match - at the moment it's just way too much.

Do people feel it was just as bad in WC2010? Personally I thought it dropped down a notch or two.
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
I don't even mind that there's a boost in the AI's decision making towards the end of the match
Click to expand...
I do. They should not magically become better (unless there was an individual 'Mentality' attribute/trait like in PES). The concept of playing cautious possession football at the end of the game to protect a scoreline should merely be a style change, a tactical change. Defend deep, commit fewer players forward, and attempt to pass the ball between them based on their normal abilities. Maybe take a striker off for a midfielder. It doesn't need much more than that.
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
Do people feel it was just as bad in WC2010? Personally I thought it dropped down a notch or two.
Click to expand...

Too much for me as it's a complete change to the gameplay (the stats boost basically takes the game to a higher setting - eg from Prof to World Class).

If the cpu team need to chase a goal late on, it would be far more realistic that they change tactics, throw an extra man or two forward and launch more hopeful long balls. However, launching more long balls should not be accompanied by an increase in speed, accuracy, etc, because if anything, as teams become more desparate, players make hastier decisions and tend to play less thoughtful and precise passes, but more rushed, speculative ones.

They should play with more haste, but not magically become faster runners, more accurate passers, harder kickers, etc. That's a very important distinction. The change should be tactical, not physical.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Are you all saying that you don't look at the clock around the 80 minute mark and think, "shit, I haven't scored yet, I need to step it up"? And I don't mean playing to the same standard but actually getting a bit more serious about your play? I definitely do. I completely agree that EA massively overdo this to the point where it's silly, but it wouldn't be remotely true to describe how I step it up as merely changing formations or tactics, nor do I think it's true of the vast majority of people you play online.
 
Re: Fifa 11

Oh, and the changes are not physical. They really, really aren't. It's the AI stepping up it's ability to use what it has to shield the ball better, to better judge what passes will succeed, and what gaps it can thread a pass through etc. It is, in no way, shape or form, faster or stronger or attribute boosted in any other way. It's purely the AI's decision making and reaction times becoming absurdly good.
 
Re: Fifa 11

nerf said:
I do. They should not magically become better (unless there was an individual 'Mentality' attribute/trait like in PES). The concept of playing cautious possession football at the end of the game to protect a scoreline should merely be a style change, a tactical change. Defend deep, commit fewer players forward, and attempt to pass the ball between them based on their normal abilities. Maybe take a striker off for a midfielder. It doesn't need much more than that.
Click to expand...

winston said:
Too much for me as it's a complete change to the gameplay (the stats boost basically takes the game to a higher setting - eg from Prof to World Class).

If the cpu team need to chase a goal late on, it would be far more realistic that they change tactics, throw an extra man or two forward and launch more hopeful long balls. However, launching more long balls should not be accompanied by an increase in speed, accuracy, etc, because if anything, as teams become more desparate, players make hastier decisions and tend to play less thoughtful and precise passes, but more rushed, speculative ones.

They should play with more haste, but not magically become faster runners, more accurate passers, harder kickers, etc. That's a very important distinction. The change should be tactical, not physical.
Click to expand...

romagnoli said:
Are you all saying that you don't look at the clock around the 80 minute mark and think, "shit, I haven't scored yet, I need to step it up"? And I don't mean playing to the same standard but actually getting a bit more serious about your play? I definitely do. I completely agree that EA massively overdo this to the point where it's silly, but it wouldn't be remotely true to describe how I step it up as merely changing formations or tactics, nor do I think it's true of the vast majority of people you play online.
Click to expand...

I agree the way the AI boosts needs looking at, as Nerf and Winston say it's far too much as it is (don't know on WC I don't play it)..
Players in the last minutes of a game don't suddenly jump in class and forget they are fatigued, they alter their style of play, try to hit more balls into the box or drop a midfielder or a defender for a striker...
 
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
Oh, and the changes are not physical. They really, really aren't. It's the AI stepping up it's ability to use what it has to shield the ball better, to better judge what passes will succeed, and what gaps it can thread a pass through etc. It is, in no way, shape or form, faster or stronger or attribute boosted in any other way. It's purely the AI's decision making and reaction times becoming absurdly good.
Click to expand...

How do you know this because EA say so? I'm still convinced the AI ignore their own stats, even after everyone at EA assures it's not true, if it is the case they just use thier stats to the nth degree then this needs to be altered too far too many times the AI uses it as a get out of jail card...;)
 
Last edited:
Re: Fifa 11

romagnoli said:
Are you all saying that you don't look at the clock around the 80 minute mark and think, "shit, I haven't scored yet, I need to step it up"? And I don't mean playing to the same standard but actually getting a bit more serious about your play? I definitely do. I completely agree that EA massively overdo this to the point where it's silly, but it wouldn't be remotely true to describe how I step it up as merely changing formations or tactics, nor do I think it's true of the vast majority of people you play online.
Click to expand...

Tactical change means more than formation. It's your approach to the match. You cannot become physically faster, stronger, etc. The cpu's increased reactions times is an absolutely critical flaw. It is a vital component of the gameplay.

Players should be fatigued by this stage in the match (we know that they currently aren't). Fatigued players should be less able, make poorer decisions. Their stats should reduce (alothugh we know stats currenlty means nothing). Instead, cpu teams become near perfect, whether it's Brazil or Thailand.

People have labelled it GOD mode, and they have done so for a reason.

Online is not an appropriate comparison as that represents how people have to play this game, where unrealistic ping-pong passing is rewarded, and a more realistic longer ball game (as real life teams would adopt in desparate times) is completely unrewarded.
 
Re: Fifa 11

I'm talking from experience. The AI is coded to be more precise and better with it's decisions in the last 5-10 minutes of each half. So the decision making (which most likely involves the AI looking at the probablility of success for each passing/dribbling option available, much as we would, but with more mathematical precision) combines with the current uber-accuracy of passes and crosses and the CPU's overly quick reaction times to become god-like. There is nothing that the CPU manages that isn't equally possible for a human with immense reaction times and a scary affinity with the game could achieve. People just think "oh it must be a stat boost" because it's easier to label as such. In actual fact you COULD hold Rio Ferdinand off with San Marino's striker if you were controlling him but you will never have the understanding of the game to be able to do this as regularly as the AI.

It is not, repeat, not, stat boosting. It is boosting of the effectiveness of an AI which doesn't do a great jb of mimicking human fallibilities to begin with.

As soon as people realise this, they can actually contribute to EA to fix it. If people stay stuck on this stat boosting idea then EA will not fix anything because there isn't a stat boosting system in place.

Edit: my reference to online is not about FIFA 10 but any sports game, or any competitive game for that matter. Every game I play where the final score actually matters has people raise their performance towards the end. The only cases where this doesn't happen is where the opposing player doesn't seem au fair enough with the game to have the ability to step it up. I did also explicitly isolate tactics from formations, and user performance from tactics.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom