Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

SoulMan said:
Im not sure how people have come to conclusions on what they will play more this year?

Im sure ill buy both as PES now looks play able which means hopefully combined i could get close to 6 months out of them until the build up to PES 2012 and FIFA 12.
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Some people are simply fed up with FIFA, so PES 2011 didn't need to be a superior game, it just needed to be vastly improved and it looks like it is, for them to go back to PES.

I for one am like Anthony: I'll be buying FIFA 11, but I'll also buy PES 2011 - for the first time since 2008 - and that's something right there. Won't know which one will grab more of my time, but I'm primarily an offline gamer and PES has ML...
 
Yeah, I'm already bored of the FIFA vids. Just get the feeling everything is the same as last year, I know they have improved, but I noticed more difference in players with the WC game so I'm a bit sceptical that a slightly bigger difference for 11 will be worthwhile. CM seems dull compared to what you can do in PES and Pro- or Freepassing doesn't make much difference between the games as I play offline only anyway.

PES on the otherhand, the whole ML sounds great and now the gameplay seems to be good enough aswell. Probably even better, as I think Rom mentioned that the biggest difference between the games is player individuality and Team AI. Or something along those lines.

Also noticed something in a couple of vids today which highlights the big difference imo. When a team is under pressure and clearing the ball, more often then not it will go into space and because there are more defenders near the HW-line the attacking team will keep possesion and continue to put pressure on. This leads to more control of the midfield and a better flow of possesion, attacking and counters. The defending team needs to work their arses off in midfield to stop the attacking flow of the opposition otherwise they will continue to be pushed back. And because they are pushed back it means it's easier for the attacking team to keep possesion near the HW-line.

Now compare that to FIFA and a clearance will land at the attacker, who will keep possesion and counter as the other attackers from his team will have enough space to control the ball. And because of this possesion your own backline can push up to the HW-line. Now you end up yo-yo-ing back and forth as there is no worthwhile midfield as it's just attackers and defenders moving up and down the pitch.

Can't wait to play the PES demo, and if it's half as good as expectations and FIFA ends up being what I expect it to be, i.e. slightly tweaked from the WC game, then I will probably pass on FIFA this year!
 
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Hmmm not played Pes yet but even with everyones fine opinions on here im not convinced that Pes 11 will be the holy grail of football gaming. I dont understand how people pick holes in Fifa 11 and then brush over Pes problems. At the end of the day problems are problems and they all add up to the overall experience. Ah you say, but its the gameplay thats more important than animations.

Not true.

The animations are every part of the gameplay, its an important part of bringing the illusion of footy to a console! And Pes still looks stiff to me, and the passing looking and judging at vids still looks like its on rails.

Of course ill be buying both like i always do and giving each a chance to impress. But i agree with the guy a few posts back i think people are being extra hard on Fifa this year and very relaxed on Konami when really it should be the other way around. The reason people are looking at pes favourably was because it was SO BAD in the last few years that any improvement looks like leaps and bounds, whilst Fifa has been in the last 4 years pretty much stable and consistent, kind of the way Pes was on Ps2.

Anyway ill await judgement on both, and hope both bring something new and fresh to the table. It just gets my goat when i hear everyone harping on about Pes this and that every year, its always the same and after the euphoria dies down it actually reveals itself as sub standard.

I dread to think the state of footy gaming if EA hadnt gone back to basics from 07 upwards. Footy gaming would be practically dead.
 
Dryzer said:
Hmmm not played Pes yet but even with everyones fine opinions on here im not convinced that Pes 11 will be the holy grail of football gaming. I dont understand how people pick holes in Fifa 11 and then brush over Pes problems. At the end of the day problems are problems and they all add up to the overall experience. Ah you say, but its the gameplay thats more important than animations.

Not true.

The animations are every part of the gameplay, its an important part of bringing the illusion of footy to a console! And Pes still looks stiff to me, and the passing looking and judging at vids still looks like its on rails.

Of course ill be buying both like i always do and giving each a chance to impress. But i agree with the guy a few posts back i think people are being extra hard on Fifa this year and very relaxed on Konami when really it should be the other way around. The reason people are looking at pes favourably was because it was SO BAD in the last few years that any improvement looks like leaps and bounds, whilst Fifa has been in the last 4 years pretty much stable and consistent, kind of the way Pes was on Ps2.

Anyway ill await judgement on both, and hope both bring something new and fresh to the table. It just gets my goat when i hear everyone harping on about Pes this and that every year, its always the same and after the euphoria dies down it actually reveals itself as sub standard.

I dread to think the state of footy gaming if EA hadnt gone back to basics from 07 upwards. Footy gaming would be practically dead.
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Disagree. I saw some fantastic animations on PES last night. The CPU pinged a beauty cross field ball from RB to LW. It bent into his path. Loooked on the replay and the fella was waving before the pass with his arm in the air.

Little touches like how some palyers look over thier shoulder before a pass, how they control the ball on their chest when running. Even how d'Alessandro cut across the ball with his left and got fade on it as it bent it. I'm very happy with it.

I'll get both, as I like the direction Fifa has been going as a full manual player. But I love what Konami have done if I'm honest.
 
Agree that it's partly down to "something different" and the online part of PES will need to prove itself. But for me, as an exclusively MM gamer CM looks like it won't be offering anything more then stability, and it will actually be offering less features! Whilst the gameplay doesn't look like it will offer more then small improvements on 10 and probably even less from the WC game. I think I managed abuot 2 months on 10, I have managed 4 campaigns on the WC game, and I've become bored with the 5th and 6th. The problem with me for FIFA lies completely with the team AI and the gameplay styles, or lack of. I would be confident that if you play online, against decent people, that FIFA will still offer the better package. But for me it was Rom's description (individuality and team AI) and the ML set up that really pushed me to consider this year's PES as the main footie game. I might end up thinking the demo is a bit meh, but I liked what they were doing with PES10 but couldn't get past the lack of transition animations. 11 has defnitely rectified this aspect so I will probably like it this year. It will be no where near the holygrail but for me could tick the main boxes I want, whilst I know FIFA won't even with it's improvements.
 
Dryzer said:
The animations are every part of the gameplay, its an important part of bringing the illusion of footy to a console! And Pes still looks stiff to me, and the passing looking and judging at vids still looks like its on rails.
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FIFA gives the illusion of a football game because of those smooth animations, I was fooled by it too. The reason people jump on the PES hype train now is because they seem to have the football fundamentals correct. It may look stiff and robotic, but it plays out much more like a real football match than FIFA does.

FIFA does a lot of things great, like collisions, ball physics (not so much the shooting part) and slide tackles for example. But these things doesn't make the game have the "soul" of football. They got a lot of technical things correct, but not many "footbally" things. And it's the latter that is so important for most of us, because that was the reason we started to play PES back in the day.
 
I think FIFA just frustrates a lot of us in here. They take 2 steps forward then always 1 back in everything they do. They get so close to nailing stuff then it always gets reigned in near release date.

Pro passing = reigned in
Stamina = reigned in
Pressure = not reigned in enough
FIFA Clubs = let noobs stat boost via shop and allowed cloning
Career Mode = injuries reigned in
Creation Centre = complete shite for any serious editor.

Now imagine FIFA 11 with all above fixed.
 
vondave said:
Disagree. I saw some fantastic animations on PES last night. The CPU pinged a beauty cross field ball from RB to LW. It bent into his path. Loooked on the replay and the fella was waving before the pass with his arm in the air.

Little touches like how some palyers look over thier shoulder before a pass, how they control the ball on their chest when running. Even how d'Alessandro cut across the ball with his left and got fade on it as it bent it. I'm very happy with it.

I'll get both, as I like the direction Fifa has been going as a full manual player. But I love what Konami have done if I'm honest.
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And you dont see that in Fifa? I've been playing ten recently and i'm still seeing the odd new animation here and there. Yes it isn't a perfect game but theres lots to admire. I play on manual and ive made Gerrard bend a shot with the outside of his foot or seen him hit a daisy cutting through ball with the outside of his foot. Just last night i scored a lovely goal with Joe Cole, he stretched for a mis hit shot and directed it into the net with his head, it was gorgeous and something i hadnt managed to do since last october when i bought it.

Fifa has loads of moments like this, its just that everyone is so used to it and bogged down with online play that tehy dont see it or its no longer a new thing.
 
Gab_ said:
FIFA gives the illusion of a football game because of those smooth animations, I was fooled by it too. The reason people jump on the PES hype train now is because they seem to have the football fundamentals correct. It may look stiff and robotic, but it plays out much more like a real football match than FIFA does.

FIFA does a lot of things great, like collisions, ball physics (not so much the shooting part) and slide tackles for example. But these things doesn't make the game have the "soul" of football. They got a lot of technical things correct, but not many "footbally" things. And it's the latter that is so important for most of us, because that was the reason we started to play PES back in the day.
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Is this based on this Pes just out or 10? Because 10 didnt play out like a real football match, i had to edit goalkeepers and players to get them to act right and to shoot from outside the box. Defensively the a.i was only good because they packed there own half and passed it around the back all day.

And Fifa was no angel either i had to fix the custom tactics, but once i did the game played much more realistically.

Saying that i only play single player and multiplayer if my mates are over, so if your a multiplayer nut your grievences may be well founded.
 
Gab_ said:
FIFA gives the illusion of a football game because of those smooth animations, I was fooled by it too. The reason people jump on the PES hype train now is because they seem to have the football fundamentals correct. It may look stiff and robotic, but it plays out much more like a real football match than FIFA does.

FIFA does a lot of things great, like collisions, ball physics (not so much the shooting part) and slide tackles for example. But these things doesn't make the game have the "soul" of football. They got a lot of technical things correct, but not many "footbally" things. And it's the latter that is so important for most of us, because that was the reason we started to play PES back in the day.
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For me it's actually the opposite. Robotic and stiffness does not sound like a description of something that plays / looks like football to me. I don't care what else you get right.

Smoothness is what I ALWAYS see on t.v and FIFA looks like that to me, it actually feels like that to me.

My money is on FIFA for the next 5 years just as it has been for the past 4 years.

I refuse to 'buy' a football game that plays like I'm controlling lego men. Maybe if it were free I would 'try' it, just for a laugh.
 
Sbu said:
For me it's actually the opposite. Robotic and stiffness does not sound like a description of something that plays / looks like football to me. I don't care what else you get right.

Smoothness is what I ALWAYS see on t.v and FIFA looks like that to me, it actually feels like that to me.

My money is on FIFA for the next 5 years just as it has been for the past 4 years.

I refuse to 'buy' a football game that plays like I'm controlling lego men. Maybe if it were free I would 'try' it, just for a laugh.
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I was as anti-pes as they come over the past 3 years. Pes 11 is fantastic based on last nights extensive play
 
Sbu said:
For me it's actually the opposite. Robotic and stiffness does not sound like a description of something that plays / looks like football to me. I don't care what else you get right.

Smoothness is what I ALWAYS see on t.v and FIFA looks like that to me, it actually feels like that to me.

My money is on FIFA for the next 5 years just as it has been for the past 4 years.

I refuse to 'buy' a football game that plays like I'm controlling lego men. Maybe if it were free I would 'try' it, just for a laugh.
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FIFA looks and move nice but is fooking boring. Everything in FIFA looks and feel the same. Players in FIFA run like "athletes" not like real players. A lot of things in this game is showy.
 
lons_pl said:
FIFA looks and move nice but is fooking boring. Everything in FIFA looks and feel the same. Players in FIFA run like "athletes" not like real players. A lot of things in this game is showy.
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Football players are athletes these days mate. Its not the 1980's were they were drinking pints of beer and having steak before every game.

They are all super fit, lean and dieted assets to a club.
 
I tried the demo extensively last night but I need time to write all I want to. I will do an extensive and detailed "review" of the demo and will compare it to Fifa in many many ways, and post it in both threads.

I tell you now that both games are like two parts of a broken jar. What one game does great the other one fails miserably. So, think in everything Fifa does wrong and expect Pes to do it great and the opposite.

When I find time I'll write it. By the way, my early feelings is that I can be playing both games this season for different reasons. Mainly PES for it's great tactical depth while I just find it really odd to play a game that has no actual manual controls, so Fifa may get its part too.

IMPORTANT: If you happen to be a hardcore FIFA full manual user as myself, it can change a LOT waht you think of PES and your initial reactions to the demo. Semi and assistant users won't find the gap that big. But manual users expect to laugh a little at the "engineered for freedom", right now is the only thing that makes Fifa still interesting to me.
 
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lons_pl said:
FIFA looks and move nice but is fooking boring. Everything in FIFA looks and feel the same. Players in FIFA run like "athletes" not like real players. A lot of things in this game is showy.
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Thank you. :))
That's all I need.

Not robotic movement. I hear in the latest PES game you might as well play with 10 men, and not have a goalkeeper because they are that bad.
 
drekkard said:
I tried the demo extensively last night but I need time to write all I want to. I will do an extensive and detailed "review" of the demo and will compare it to Fifa in many many ways, and post it in both threads.

I tell you now that both games are like two parts of a broken jar. What one game does great the other one fails miserably. So, think in everything Fifa does wrong and expect Pes to do it great and the opposite.

When I find time I'll write it. By the way, my early feelings is that I can be playing both games this season for different reasons. Mainly PES for it's great tactical depth while I just find it really odd to play a game that has no actual manual controls, so Fifa may get its part too.

IMPORTANT: If you happen to be a hardcore FIFA full manual user as myself, it can change a LOT waht you think of PES and your initial reactions to the demo. Semi and assistant users won't find the gap that big. But manual users expect to laugh a little at the "engineered for freedom", right now is the only thing that makes Fifa still interesting to me.
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Do you mean that the L2+pass (the manual one) in PES doesn't work well? Or do you mean that it's too hard to pull it of because of that extra L2 press?

Being a full manual player myself, it would be interesting to hear since I thought that even if it is an extra button press, it would be something I could get used to.
 
Gab_ said:
Do you mean that the L2+pass (the manual one) in PES doesn't work well? Or do you mean that it's too hard to pull it of because of that extra L2 press?

Being a full manual player myself, it would be interesting to hear since I thought that even if it is an extra button press, it would be something I could get used to.
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Hi Gab, first of all I have to say I agree with your impressions in the thread about the fundamentals and the overall vision of both games.

About manual passing, I've reached such a level in Fifa that I can pull out passes at 15º or 20º quite easy and regularly, so I can build up intrincate passes with high accuracy.

That said, my main problem in PES with manual passing is not L2 at all, it's not my skill. It's the feeling I have too much skill related to how it's programmed, becuase it's not actual 360º at all. Most time I can point at 20º but the pass is done anyways at 10º because there's a plaer near. I mean, it doesn't seem to be fully manual, mostly a kind of point between manual and semi in fifa. So, the CPU logic points your pass at last instance. Or at least that's what I'm feeling. Just like movement doesn't feel 360º at all (call it 180º if you want :COAT:).

That makes manual passing quite unrelevant sometimes to me as a player, as I'm not sure if the CPU will makeit as I want anyway. I'm so used to play to space that I'm finding it a little hard to assume the passing model of pes. I knew it would happen and plan to give it time.

Besides, ball physics doesn't help that much. If this PES had the manualness, animation blending and ball physics of Fifa it would be an instant classic and a masterpiece.
 
drekkard said:
Hi Gab, first of all I have to say I agree with your impressions in the thread about the fundamentals and the overall vision of both games.

About manual passing, I've reached such a level in Fifa that I can pull out passes at 15º or 20º quite easy and regularly, so I can build up intrincate passes with high accuracy.

That said, my main problem in PES with manual passing is not L2 at all, it's not my skill. It's the feeling I have too much skill related to how it's programmed, becuase it's not actual 360º at all. Most time I can point at 20º but the pass is done anyways at 10º because there's a plaer near. I mean, it doesn't seem to be fully manual, mostly a kind of point between manual and semi in fifa. So, the CPU logic points your pass at last instance. Or at least that's what I'm feeling. Just like movement doesn't feel 360º at all (call it 180º if you want :COAT:).

That makes manual passing quite unrelevant sometimes to me as a player, as I'm not sure if the CPU will makeit as I want anyway. I'm so used to play to space that I'm finding it a little hard to assume the passing model of pes. I knew it would happen and plan to give it time.

Besides, ball physics doesn't help that much. If this PES had the manualness, animation blending and ball physics of Fifa it would be an instant classic and a masterpiece.
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That does sound a bit worrying. But unlike in FIFA, does those manual passes feel like they have stat based error? I'm not really question you, but could it maybe be at least sometimes that the ball doesn't go where you aim because of this? I'm just thinking because we manual players are so used to having the ball go exactly where we aim, which isn't very realistic, that it could feel that error in a manual system would feel like it snaps to rails when it doesn't go where we aim.
 
Sbu said:
Real football is showy and boring for the most part of the 90 minutes don't you agree?

Sound like FIFA reflects that very well..
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This is computer game not real match. The computer game should have fun. Boring game is rubbish. Good game have to have fun and some realism. Only PES 2011 has theese two things in this moment.
 
The only realism in PES is it has 22 men kicking a ball about nothing more, don't know how you find that to be fun.
 
Sbu said:
Thank you. :))
That's all I need.

Not robotic movement. I hear in the latest PES game you might as well play with 10 men, and not have a goalkeeper because they are that bad.
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That's a bit rich to criticize PES keepers like that when they are one of the worst parts of FIFA...

FIFA keepers are so scripted/predictable... You already know before you shoot whether you have any chance of scoring, and thus have to turn down shooting opportunities you would take in a real game, ruining the illusion you're playing a football match.
Also, attributes make little or no difference for a keeper - I tested this out by shooting against a keeper with the shortest height, with all attributes at 1 - he still made spectacular diving saves and everything...

PES keepers may not be as solid as they perhaps should be, but at least they have human-like reaction times and aren't so predictable you get the feeling you could potentially score from anywhere, and the attributes seem to matter.
 
Rob, I don't think predictable is any bad. If anything, real life football is as predictable as they come.

There are instances in real life football when you just know that surely it's going to be a goal. Don't see how that's a problem in FIFA.
 
lons_pl said:
This is computer game not real match. The computer game should have fun. Boring game is rubbish. Good game have to have fun and some realism. Only PES 2011 has theese two things in this moment.
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I'm sorry my friend, but you are talking nonsense...Most on here are striving for a realistic football game. Your critiscing a game by saying its "showy and boring" and "players run like athletes" when they are athletes. Sorry what?

Do you know what really pisses me off and bugs me to no end? Fully grown men who have an affinity to a game, regardless of being Fifa or Pes. I gotta be honest, I see it most with people who like PES, they just won't budge and acknowledge on how Fifa has developed into the best football game. PES used to be incredible, we all loved it. They changed the forumla and Fifa learnt there lessons. Dryzer has it right by saying Konami are being applauded because they have done a complete overhaul, yet EA are being condemned for little tweaks. I bet there is alot of people here who wish PES 5 was tweaked every year and nothing more.


p.s The goalkeepers in Fifa 10 were superhuman..I had the feeling too that I knew i wouldnt score when i shot. They changed that in the World Cup game..Alot more human like.
 
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Sbu said:
Rob, I don't think predictable is any bad. If anything, real life football is as predictable as they come.

There are instances in real life football when you just know that surely it's going to be a goal. Don't see how that's a problem in FIFA.
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Hello David Rutter.
 
Sbu said:
The only realism in PES is it has 22 men kicking a ball about nothing more, don't know how you find that to be fun.
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I said a very similar thing in another thread to someone else, but:

What is so great about FIFA?

I can only think of three advantages of FIFA this year - Animations, Clubs/11v11 and Licenses...

This is coming from someone who thought FIFA 08, 09 and 10 were better games than their PES counterparts, I am not being biased.

Sbu said:
Rob, I don't think predictable is any bad. If anything, real life football is as predictable as they come.

There are instances in real life football when you just know that surely it's going to be a goal. Don't see how that's a problem in FIFA.
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Now this is just a joke, surely?

You're saying that having 0% chance of scoring, from a position that in real life you would have a decent chance of scoring from is not a bad thing? Or that a certain shot from a certain position is a 100% goal ("sweet spot") is acceptable?
 
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