Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

[Rodelero]

I would suggest, and imagine that online you'll get preset selections - so a 'hardcore' mode and a 'casual' mode for instance. We have a few months after FIFA 11's release to influence that - and we should make it very clear how it should be done.

Hopefully at the very least FIFA 12 can be the year we put this, and the assisted/semi/manual issue to bed. It's been too long.

 

[ant0n]

I would suggest, and imagine that online you'll get preset selections - so a 'hardcore' mode and a 'casual' mode for instance. We have a few months after FIFA 11's release to influence that - and we should make it very clear how it should be done.

Hopefully at the very least FIFA 12 can be the year we put this, and the assisted/semi/manual issue to bed. It's been too long.

You're telling me. The sim crowd has been ignored since 09.

 

[Rob92]

Right now my game footy of choice is FIFA WC and by the looks of things FIFA 11 has improved on that and I prefer that to PES 5 (or any other PES for that matter).

PES 5 was great at the time (and I used to love it) but you can't seriously say it's better than any of the latest next gen footy games (FIFA or PES).

If I insert a PES 5 disk right now, not only does it look like rubbish, it also plays and feels like one. And the AI doesn't come close to good compared to today's games imo.

So I wouldn't want a recycle of PES 5 with any next gen innovations...not in year 2010/2011.

PES5 does a hell of a lot of things better than the recent FIFAs... Also, I don't see any aspect of PES 2010's gameplay that is better than PES5's.
I still believe PES5 is the best football game available.

It doesn't even look that bad on PC when patched - In fact the pitch textures make the overall look better I'd say...

Here's why I think it's gameplay is better than FIFA's:

Good balance between defending and attacking - defending required skill, and the amount of action in a 10 min game felt right.

Responsive controls - the best example would be "super cancel", it was great in PES and I used it all the time, in FIFA it's unresponsive and just makes things more difficult most of the time...

Better AI - Defence and midfield hold their shape better than in FIFA, attacking fullbacks will overlap, strikers find better positions in the box for crosses... Marking is more realistic, you can't just pass to an open striker in the centre-circle for a counter attack all the time like in FIFA, especially if man marking is set up.
Sometimes there is a lack of movement but I don't think that's any better in FIFA.

More realistic passing - There were less perfect 180 degree turn passes, "ping-pong passing" was, although possible, difficult to get anywhere with as the ball would bounce about and be difficult to control or hit accurately first time after a few passes.

More realistic first touch - You can't just collect a blasted pass waist height with ease... Players would make mistakes and knock the ball too far sometimes...

Better refereeing - Penalties and cards could be given for standing tackles, and the amount of free kicks given was more realistic (on FIFA you can go a whole half without a foul...)

Better dribbling - There weren't a load of tricks, but it felt much more accurate to beat opponents with direction changes, wrong footing them etc.

Realistic shooting physics with various types of shot, you can also hit truly powerful shots (unlike FIFA).

Keepers with human-like reactions who can be beaten by the pace of a shot, go the wrong way, come and collect crosses, catch the ball at their back post and actually make the odd mistake. FIFA keepers (and shooting) are too predictable, making you know where you can and can't score from.

Far superior in-the-box action - You can create space inside the box without having a defender steam in and barge you off the ball, crossing and heading/volleying is so much more convincing (just go into free training in PES5 and put a few crosses in and have efforts on goal, then do the same in FIFA... you'll see that it's terrible on FIFA).
Players would throw themselves at the ball, you'd see them actually missing the ball at times when they had to stretch, or attempted diving headers and overhead kicks (on FIFA, contact is always made with the ball...)

Better set-pieces - You could actually cross properly from free kicks and corners, as well as the free kicks at goal being (although a little too easy) more realistic with more depth of control.

I could probably go on, but I'm starting to feel that this post is getting too long .

I still play PES5 from time to time, and although the gameplay always impresses me, I have to admit I do miss the ability to play the ball into space that you have from manual controls.
It pisses me off that all the stuff mentioned above can be done well on such inferior hardware on a 5 year old game, yet it's been fucked up on much better consoles.
Absolutely no progress, there's been steps forward in some areas (such as animations and freedom of control) but so many steps back in others.

 

[jonesdean]

nick a couple of questions if i can ask.
If you are playing as player only and just starting out could your club loan you out at all, so say you were a player at manchester united could you be loaned out to norwich to gain experience? then return the following season or after 3 months as previously stated. Also do other clubs make bids for you as a player if you impress? or if you are placed/request to be on transfer list? if fifa 10 you would only sign for a year then be presented with different offers i take it from the previews you can sign a 4 yr contraact so is it possible to be purchased?

are the game objectives more realistic in fifa 11. in fifa 10 you woulf be asked to score a hat trick and win the game by 4 goals sometimes. as a holding midfield, defender winger this could be difficult and therefre you wouldnt progress as well. as this been looked at?

very dissapointed to see you are not able to be subed as a player. this would be realistic to come on for 20-30 mins when breaking into the team or gaining fitness after an injury. if you are having a bad game or tired you should be taken off i think. would also be a nice touch to be dropped to reserves if you have dipped in form or need match practice.

can you help a wrexham lad with any answers?
cheers

 

[Lons]

Rob92

If you like so much PES 5 you have to wait for PES 2011

 

[Rob92]

Rob92

If you like so much PES 5 you have to wait for PES 2011

I'm not up to date on any of the PES 2011 news, or what the features are, but I will definitely try the demo... FIFA isn't looking too promising from the vids.

 

[Rodelero]

I'm kinda the same, watching PES out of the corner of my eye, but I don't really know that much about it. Excited to play the demo though, really think it could be a very solid competitor this year. Hopefully it lights a fire.

 

[mfmaxpower]

Right now my game footy of choice is FIFA WC and by the looks of things FIFA 11 has improved on that and I prefer that to PES 5 (or any other PES for that matter).

PES 5 was great at the time (and I used to love it) but you can't seriously say it's better than any of the latest next gen footy games (FIFA or PES).

If I insert a PES 5 disk right now, not only does it look like rubbish, it also plays and feels like one. And the AI doesn't come close to good compared to today's games imo.

So I wouldn't want a recycle of PES 5 with any next gen innovations...not in year 2010/2011.

Please re-read my post. I did not say I want PES 5 gameplay, I said I want PES 5 gameplay QUALITY with today's innovations. That means taking the WC game, also what I'm playing right now, and making sure the fundamentals of football are more accurately reflected, like first touch, foot preferences, individualism, and intelligent AI. Of course PES 5 can not stand up against the years of innovation that has gone on since, but in terms of the quality of football fundamentals being represented, FIFA today still remains behind where PES was years ago.

I would suggest, and imagine that online you'll get preset selections - so a 'hardcore' mode and a 'casual' mode for instance. We have a few months after FIFA 11's release to influence that - and we should make it very clear how it should be done.

Hopefully at the very least FIFA 12 can be the year we put this, and the assisted/semi/manual issue to bed. It's been too long.

I admire you for still having confidence in EA. Based on some of Gary's posts, it does sound like sliders or segregated modes may be introduced next year, but I have absolutely zero faith they'll do enough to satisfy.

I feel sorry for you guys that are primarily interested in online modes though, because I'll bet my left nut you'll get screwed when it comes to online options, again. The default settings, for both offline and online, will always be made for the kiddie casuals in mind, but while offline it'll be pretty simple for them to implement sliders effectively, differentiating gameplay online between hardcore/sim and casuals if fear is always going to be too much for EA to manage effectively. There's little debate, for instance, over what "casual" mode would be online, but tailoring a "hardcore" mode for online play will be near impossible - sliders will be great for offline but aren't possible for online. Hopefully I'm wrong but I just don't see EA caring enough to get it right.

Looking down the road, considering EA's philosophy to cater to the casual masses at all costs, I don't see a direction FIFA could take that would both make sense for EA from a business perspective and satisfy those of us interested in greater adherence to realism - EA would probably make more money if next year they integrate Facebook into the game rather than realistic first-touch!

I applaud EA for their success, I just don't agree with their vision.

You're telling me. The sim crowd has been ignored since 09.

Lol. Since 09? FIFA has always ignored the sim crowd! I cringe remembering FIFA ten years ago. In fact, FIFA (the organization) should be ashamed of themselves for not taking the licenses away from EA back a decade ago on the grounds of protecting the image of the sport!

 

[YoungGun_UK]

I'm not up to date on any of the PES 2011 news, or what the features are, but I will definitely try the demo... FIFA isn't looking too promising from the vids.

I agree that PES5 is probably the best game in context for the time it was released and how good it was compared to the competition but I do think PES10' and FIFA 10' have things which are better such PES 10's first touch mechanic, Its actually brilliant and something missing from FIFA entirely and lacking in previous PES's. The Manual of FIFA (and same for PES11) of being able to put the ball anywhere has really opened up the game so much and is really a essential. I also think individuality is better in PES 10 but isn't showed off enough (much more noticable in 11)

overall its still the best overall package combinging everything but PES 11 is showing signs of having all the things which made PES5 and much more potentially.

 

[Jamezinho]

I'm not up to date on any of the PES 2011 news, or what the features are, but I will definitely try the demo... FIFA isn't looking too promising from the vids.

Like you, I adore PES5 for all the same reasons but I believe that PES2011 is a much better game, and that's just based on a beta that's months old. PES2011 will win back many of the fans it lost to Fifa, I have no doubt. It's a simulation through and through.

 

[mfmaxpower]

PES5 does a hell of a lot of things better than the recent FIFAs...

Ah, I see you beat me to it!

Re: PES 2011, it's been just in the last month that I've gotten back into following PES news - last time I bought PES was 2008 but FIFA 08 converted me to the Dark Side - and I've gotta say, man I'm pumped for PES this year.

It's not hard to figure out who to listen to, the guys who harken back to PES 5 but aren't fanboys - those who're just interested in a quality football game no matter the name on the box - and from the impressions of people who seem to know what they're talking about, PES 2011 has the potential to be the best PES to date. It won't be better than FIFA 11 as a whole package and some of its animations and other details will surely still lag behind - they can only close so much of the gap in one year - but it does sound as if the "magic" may be back.

 

[jonneymendoza]

PES5 does a hell of a lot of things better than the recent FIFAs... Also, I don't see any aspect of PES 2010's gameplay that is better than PES5's.
I still believe PES5 is the best football game available.

It doesn't even look that bad on PC when patched - In fact the pitch textures make the overall look better I'd say...

Here's why I think it's gameplay is better than FIFA's:

Good balance between defending and attacking - defending required skill, and the amount of action in a 10 min game felt right.

Responsive controls - the best example would be "super cancel", it was great in PES and I used it all the time, in FIFA it's unresponsive and just makes things more difficult most of the time...

Better AI - Defence and midfield hold their shape better than in FIFA, attacking fullbacks will overlap, strikers find better positions in the box for crosses... Marking is more realistic, you can't just pass to an open striker in the centre-circle for a counter attack all the time like in FIFA, especially if man marking is set up.
Sometimes there is a lack of movement but I don't think that's any better in FIFA.

More realistic passing - There were less perfect 180 degree turn passes, "ping-pong passing" was, although possible, difficult to get anywhere with as the ball would bounce about and be difficult to control or hit accurately first time after a few passes.

More realistic first touch - You can't just collect a blasted pass waist height with ease... Players would make mistakes and knock the ball too far sometimes...

Better refereeing - Penalties and cards could be given for standing tackles, and the amount of free kicks given was more realistic (on FIFA you can go a whole half without a foul...)

Better dribbling - There weren't a load of tricks, but it felt much more accurate to beat opponents with direction changes, wrong footing them etc.

Realistic shooting physics with various types of shot, you can also hit truly powerful shots (unlike FIFA).

Keepers with human-like reactions who can be beaten by the pace of a shot, go the wrong way, come and collect crosses, catch the ball at their back post and actually make the odd mistake. FIFA keepers (and shooting) are too predictable, making you know where you can and can't score from.

Far superior in-the-box action - You can create space inside the box without having a defender steam in and barge you off the ball, crossing and heading/volleying is so much more convincing (just go into free training in PES5 and put a few crosses in and have efforts on goal, then do the same in FIFA... you'll see that it's terrible on FIFA).
Players would throw themselves at the ball, you'd see them actually missing the ball at times when they had to stretch, or attempted diving headers and overhead kicks (on FIFA, contact is always made with the ball...)

Better set-pieces - You could actually cross properly from free kicks and corners, as well as the free kicks at goal being (although a little too easy) more realistic with more depth of control.

I could probably go on, but I'm starting to feel that this post is getting too long .

I still play PES5 from time to time, and although the gameplay always impresses me, I have to admit I do miss the ability to play the ball into space that you have from manual controls.
It pisses me off that all the stuff mentioned above can be done well on such inferior hardware on a 5 year old game, yet it's been fucked up on much better consoles.
Absolutely no progress, there's been steps forward in some areas (such as animations and freedom of control) but so many steps back in others.

great post!!

loved PES5 on the pc. i even had fifa commentary on it lol

 

[romagnoli]

Well it's still something that I want more of a sim from - it's not an uncompromising sim. The tricks are likely to still be an issue even if they tone it down, and the 180 passing is definitely more effective than I'd like. You can tell it's up there with PES 5&6 though - it's already being given the rose tinted specs treatment and it's only been gone a week...

 

[DerleiPT]

Like you, I adore PES5 for all the same reasons but I believe that PES2011 is a much better game, and that's just based on a beta that's months old. PES2011 will win back many of the fans it lost to Fifa, I have no doubt. It's a simulation through and through.

another year and the same song ? pes 10 (had to be like pes5) wasnt good as pes5 and now pes11 ? Pes11 will be better than 10 i am sure but not as good as some people here trying to say , i have no doubt Overall beta reviews on not pes forums are not so possitive so....we need wait for demo.Pes2010 was different than 2009 in possitive way but it doesnt make 2010 great game.Pes2011 have some new animations(still far to Fifa) and some good things but its still very similar to pes2010 whet could not attract me for long time to this game We should not make big hype for Pes11 because several people told that its new and much better game , the same announcements were last year and what ? I know, Fifa added not so many new things this year but i still believe that Fifa11 has better gameplay base for online and offline 1vs1. Not this year for pes , maybe next but not this

 

[kevano22]

Ah, I see you beat me to it!

Re: PES 2011, it's been just in the last month that I've gotten back into following PES news - last time I bought PES was 2008 but FIFA 08 converted me to the Dark Side - and I've gotta say, man I'm pumped for PES this year.

It's not hard to figure out who to listen to, the guys who harken back to PES 5 but aren't fanboys - those who're just interested in a quality football game no matter the name on the box - and from the impressions of people who seem to know what they're talking about, PES 2011 has the potential to be the best PES to date. It won't be better than FIFA 11 as a whole package and some of its animations and other details will surely still lag behind - they can only close so much of the gap in one year - but it does sound as if the "magic" may be back.

Agreed with this, I will be buying both games this year and hopefully playing FIFA for clubs and PES for everything else.

The version of FIFA I played in Guildford killed all my hopes of us having an amazing new super game - and the fresh engine which PES is showing looks great - it's all I wanted - something new.

Excited for both games but PES is tipping it for me at the moment, if it can recreate some of the magical moments I used to have back in the day then we're in for a treat

 

[Rodelero]

I admire you for still having confidence in EA. Based on some of Gary's posts, it does sound like sliders or segregated modes may be introduced next year, but I have absolutely zero faith they'll do enough to satisfy.

I feel sorry for you guys that are primarily interested in online modes though, because I'll bet my left nut you'll get screwed when it comes to online options, again. The default settings, for both offline and online, will always be made for the kiddie casuals in mind, but while offline it'll be pretty simple for them to implement sliders effectively, differentiating gameplay online between hardcore/sim and casuals if fear is always going to be too much for EA to manage effectively. There's little debate, for instance, over what "casual" mode would be online, but tailoring a "hardcore" mode for online play will be near impossible - sliders will be great for offline but aren't possible for online. Hopefully I'm wrong but I just don't see EA caring enough to get it right.

They are possible online, because you'll have presets. It's the sensible way of doing it. It's like on Call of Duty (it's not the best example but many can relate to it). You can set up what you want offline, on LAN, or for private matches, but online there are certain presets which you play on.

If they implement the sliders, then we can have a hardcore preset, they'll have no excuse. FIFA 12 is my breaking point - but I'm not giving up on FIFA without a fight and I'm not going to pull punches. If they fail to sort the assisted/semi/manual and casual/purist problem, that's it for me, as long as PES doesn't crack.

The 11v11 is the only thing which will keep me if the gameplay continues to fail to disappoint - I know you don't care for it - but I love it - I hate the gameplay in FIFA and I still love it - so I know how good that mode will be when they get it right.

Looking down the road, considering EA's philosophy to cater to the casual masses at all costs, I don't see a direction FIFA could take that would both make sense for EA from a business perspective and satisfy those of us interested in greater adherence to realism - EA would probably make more money if next year they integrate Facebook into the game rather than realistic first-touch!

I applaud EA for their success, I just don't agree with their vision.

I think it would be naive to imagine that EA and Konami are so different. There is a difference, but it's not a philosophy, it's a necessity. Konami don't try for the casual fans because there is no point - EA have them and cannot be expected to let them go. If we want EA to create great games for us - and if we want the two games to be pushing eachother in terms of realism, we are going to have to work with EA to show them a way that we, and the casuals can get what they want - and I'll be pushing them every yard I can.

I believe that Gary wants to give us what we want, but can't. Maybe that's naive. We'll see. This year, let's fight to get them to use the livepatching to tweak this game into the state we want it to be. This depressive apocalyptic doomsaying is pointless. It's interesting to see how easily some people here slip back into EA hatred Konami reverence mode before they've even played the games.

If you have no faith in EA, why do you care? At least give them a little benefit of the doubt. They've moved forward this year, not massively, but a bit - they'd hit a wall which they should be able to deal with next year with sliders/presets. If they don't, then that's it - but let's just hold our horses a little. PES has not suddenly jumped into this infallible position on a different planet to FIFA.

 

[romagnoli]

Absolutely. Anyone who has played 10v10 or 5v5 when everything has clicked knows it's inevitable that it will become as obligatory in goofy games as 1v1 or manager mode. As far as I'm concerned anyone who disagrees with that just hasnt played Clubs in the right environment to get that Eureka moment. It's just a matter of time before Konami add the same to PES and then both sides will be competing to reach that 'right environment' as frequently as possible.

 

[Rodelero]

The sooner the better in my opinion. If FIFA does fail to impress me next year it will be painful not to have Clubs - I may have to buy both, which I won't be doing this year at least not at launch, because so many other games release this month.

 

[quiet_riot]

My lasting memory of PES5 was that I didn't score for about 15-20 games when I first got it! Obviously the gamer in me didn't allow me to drop the difficulty down, but boy it was an epic feeling when I managed to score!

 

[mfmaxpower]

They are possible online, because you'll have presets. It's the sensible way of doing it. It's like on Call of Duty (it's not the best example but many can relate to it). You can set up what you want offline, on LAN, or for private matches, but online there are certain presets which you play on.

If they implement the sliders, then we can have a hardcore preset, they'll have no excuse. FIFA 12 is my breaking point - but I'm not giving up on FIFA without a fight and I'm not going to pull punches. If they fail to sort the assisted/semi/manual and casual/purist problem, that's it for me, as long as PES doesn't crack.

I didn't mean to imply it's not possible from a technical standpoint, but rather when I try to put myself into EA's shoes, I don't see them caring enough to get it done so it works well. For one thing, what do you envision a "hardcore" preset to be like? Obviously not just manual controls because there's already a manual filter, so what would the hardcore preset change from a default casual preset? The first problem I see is coming to a consensus what a hardcore preset means for us. Second, would EA agree with our view or see it even as too hardcore? Third, it wouldn't take much - if just one setting is wrong or "too" hard - a hardcore preset could easily become irrelevant if too many are turned-off by it and remain with the default online setting.

The reason for my pessimism for online play, and I'm only referring to h2h since I have relatively little experience with Clubs, is we shouted like hell all this past year and all we got are Manual Leaderboards (and I guess PP too you could say) to help with online play from a hardcore point of view. Maybe it'll be more than babysteps next year but all I can go on is history.

I think it would be naive to imagine that EA and Konami are so different. There is a difference, but it's not a philosophy, it's a necessity. Konami don't try for the casual fans because there is no point - EA have them and cannot be expected to let them go. If we want EA to create great games for us - and if we want the two games to be pushing eachother in terms of realism, we are going to have to work with EA to show them a way that we, and the casuals can get what they want - and I'll be pushing them every yard I can.

Ah but you see, a business philosophy is driven by necessity, and it is because their situations are so different that they design their games based upon such different philosophies. And this is my entire point - because EA do not need to cater to the hardcore, their philosophy will remain to listen first and foremost to the casuals while only giving minor attention to the rest of us. In hindsight, maybe what was naive was for me to believe EA was actually interested in going in a different direction beginning with FIFA 08. Maybe, and hopefully, you're right and FIFA 12 will be our year.

I believe that Gary wants to give us what we want, but can't. Maybe that's naive. We'll see. This year, let's fight to get them to use the livepatching to tweak this game into the state we want it to be. This depressive apocalyptic doomsaying is pointless. It's interesting to see how easily some people here slip back into EA hatred Konami reverence mode before they've even played the games.

Don't get me wrong, I believe the same about Gary, and Rutter too. When I say EA I am not referring to the individuals who make the game but to the company (and probably Peter Moore). I think you're absolutely right and I bet he has a frustrating job, wanting to deliver a game that he must feel is somewhat watered down, a sacrifice in the name of big business motives.

And you act as if we don't have reason to be upset with EA, as if it's our fault that EA makes it so easy to hate them. I'm sure you've been on the official forums since Creation Center debuted, so it's not like there's only a few people not so happy with EA right now. And saying Konami reverence is just a load of crap - this forum is full of people who hate the last few editions of PES. They were horrible. But of course people who've traditionally had a preference for a football sim, and thus preferred PES back in the day, are happy to see evidence the franchise may return to quality.

If you have no faith in EA, why do you care? At least give them a little benefit of the doubt. They've moved forward this year, not massively, but a bit - they'd hit a wall which they should be able to deal with next year with sliders/presets. If they don't, then that's it - but let's just hold our horses a little. PES has not suddenly jumped into this infallible position on a different planet to FIFA.

I care because I haven't played PES 2011 yet! I care because I've put a lot of time into FIFA since 08 and see loads of potential in the game. But I gave them the benefit of the doubt leading up to 10 and 11, so it's hard to do that a third time. You and I have different preferences and interests in what we want from a football game, so at times we're talking about different things. For example, as someone who spends most of his time playing MM in the past, I've become completely disheartened looking at what CM has to offer me. You, as someone most interested in Clubs, are in a different situation and are probably justified in having greater optimism as Clubs and 11v11 is definitely on the up and up. So, funny thing is FIFA 12 could improve in CM only and in no other way, and it could become my favorite FIFA of all time!

In the end, I don't think I have to have faith to care though. One of my favorite sports teams, that shall remain nameless for the moment, has been utter crap for the last 15 years and I never had faith (until this year!) they'd improve, but my love for the team never waned. But like I said, the main reason I care is because I haven't played PES 2011 yet, but if PES 2011 is good enough I'll likely care a lot less in the future. Hey, maybe I'll even get to return to my PES pedestal where I got to look down with an arrogant sneer at those who played FIFA!

Absolutely. Anyone who has played 10v10 or 5v5 when everything has clicked knows it's inevitable that it will become as obligatory in goofy games as 1v1 or manager mode. As far as I'm concerned anyone who disagrees with that just hasnt played Clubs in the right environment to get that Eureka moment. It's just a matter of time before Konami add the same to PES and then both sides will be competing to reach that 'right environment' as frequently as possible.

Not really sure what your point is or who it's directed at. I for one certainly never meant to give the impression Clubs or 11v11 or whatever isn't hugely popular. I hope you guys get all you want (just not at the expense of ML or CM dammit!). I get enough human interaction during the day and team interaction from the teams I'm on IRL that I just want an escape when I switch on FIFA/PES, so I'm not a fan of these modes, and certainly don't think they should be the foundation of football games, but like I said above, everyone has a different interest in what they want out of these games, so to each's own.

Hell, maybe in the future FIFA will split into two games and I won't have to pay for your clubs and you won't have to pay for my manager mode!

 

[Rob92]

My lasting memory of PES5 was that I didn't score for about 15-20 games when I first got it! Obviously the gamer in me didn't allow me to drop the difficulty down, but boy it was an epic feeling when I managed to score!

Same here! I didn't score in my first few games, so completed all of the situation training and challenge training which helped at lot .

That reminds me, challenge training was a great mode IMO, I don't know why they removed it for PES6... did they ever bring it back?

 

[andythom77]

Same here! I didn't score in my first few games, so completed all of the situation training and challenge training which helped at lot .

That reminds me, challenge training was a great mode IMO, I don't know why they removed it for PES6... did they ever bring it back?

i had exactly the same situation with PES5, i couldn't score for toffee when i first got it, which was good cause it felt great when you finally did. i really liked the change between each game and the learning curve that came with it.

nowadays with fifa they just seem to carry on after each game, just little tweaks, no new learning curve.

 

[Rodelero]

I didn't mean to imply it's not possible from a technical standpoint, but rather when I try to put myself into EA's shoes, I don't see them caring enough to get it done so it works well. For one thing, what do you envision a "hardcore" preset to be like? Obviously not just manual controls because there's already a manual filter, so what would the hardcore preset change from a default casual preset? The first problem I see is coming to a consensus what a hardcore preset means for us. Second, would EA agree with our view or see it even as too hardcore? Third, it wouldn't take much - if just one setting is wrong or "too" hard - a hardcore preset could easily become irrelevant if too many are turned-off by it and remain with the default online setting.

All that is needed for a hardcore preset to work, is for enough people to want to play it and for it not to be hidden. For me, I'd choose hardcore as the most realistic they can manage - and I believe there are enough people to want it - and casual to be the thing EA thinks most of the non-hardcore people want to play.

How this meshes with assists is probably the hardest thing. What we really need with this is to have a long conversation with EA over how this should be done - to try to kill the assisted/semi/manual and segregation based problem dead. It's going to take some real thinking about how we can get this conversation with EA started early enough, and to get what is necessary. There are lots of ways to do this, but there is one key to any segregation measure:

Every sector of the community must have enough people in it to not discourage others from playing within it. This is what goes wrong with manual. As the year goes on, the number of people on the filter drops, and once it drops to the point you can no longer get games fast, the speed which the numbers are dropping accelerates exponentially.

They have to be careful to make sure that the presets are not hidden in the same way that manual is, and in fact they should take steps to seriously encourage the use of the 'hardcore' preset online.

The FIWC, for instance, should be hardcore only, and the same goes for the 360 equivalent tournament. The hardcore leaderboard should be designed to be the one people want to be on. These are simple tricks which EA have missed totally with manual.

When playing online, as opposed to having a 'custom match' to choose your presets, you should actually be given the choice everytime you go onto the menu: Main Menu > XBOX Live > Head 2 Head Match: Casual or Hardcore - in the same way that EVERY Call of Duty player KNOWS what the 'Hardcore' playlist is.

Whether or not people play casual, or hardcore, they should know that hardcore exists, and that hardcore is the one you want to play on - the one the best people play on - the most realistic one.

The reason for my pessimism for online play, and I'm only referring to h2h since I have relatively little experience with Clubs, is we shouted like hell all this past year and all we got are Manual Leaderboards (and I guess PP too you could say) to help with online play from a hardcore point of view. Maybe it'll be more than babysteps next year but all I can go on is history.

That's perhaps a little unfair. They've done quite a lot to help with the main issues in online - pressure, and PPP being nerfed are the most obvious two. They are babysteps - though Pro Passing shouldn't be. PP should be a lot more than it is and we can only hope that EA can be persuaded to change that. The technical side of PP should lead to a much bigger improvement, but it's not tuned right, no doubt. FIFA 10 online has a lot wrong with it - and FIFA 11 online will have a lot, lot less. Doesn't mean that it's a perfect simulator at all - but I'd prefer a game which is enjoyable online which has a few departures from realism than one which is realistic but an exploitable shitty cesspool style mess like FIFA 10's online.

Ah but you see, a business philosophy is driven by necessity, and it is because their situations are so different that they design their games based upon such different philosophies. And this is my entire point - because EA do not need to cater to the hardcore, their philosophy will remain to listen first and foremost to the casuals while only giving minor attention to the rest of us. In hindsight, maybe what was naive was for me to believe EA was actually interested in going in a different direction beginning with FIFA 08. Maybe, and hopefully, you're right and FIFA 12 will be our year.

One way or another, sliders remove their excuse, that's what's critical about FIFA 12. They'll have no excuse.

And you act as if we don't have reason to be upset with EA, as if it's our fault that EA makes it so easy to hate them.

I do? I personally am upset with EA and have probably gone at least as far as anyone else explaining my problems with it and criticising their game - but hatred? If you can hate EA for FIFA 11, Konami should be well past the point of return for their last few poor-excuses for games.

I'm sure you've been on the official forums since Creation Center debuted, so it's not like there's only a few people not so happy with EA right now. And saying Konami reverence is just a load of crap - this forum is full of people who hate the last few editions of PES. They were horrible. But of course people who've traditionally had a preference for a football sim, and thus preferred PES back in the day, are happy to see evidence the franchise may return to quality.

Many on this forum are ready to jump back to the days when FIFA was laughed at as some kind of arcade farce and PES was the golden replica of football - and it shows.

I care because I haven't played PES 2011 yet! I care because I've put a lot of time into FIFA since 08 and see loads of potential in the game. But I gave them the benefit of the doubt leading up to 10 and 11, so it's hard to do that a third time. You and I have different preferences and interests in what we want from a football game, so at times we're talking about different things. For example, as someone who spends most of his time playing MM in the past, I've become completely disheartened looking at what CM has to offer me. You, as someone most interested in Clubs, are in a different situation and are probably justified in having greater optimism as Clubs and 11v11 is definitely on the up and up. So, funny thing is FIFA 12 could improve in CM only and in no other way, and it could become my favorite FIFA of all time!

We can hope.

Hey, maybe I'll even get to return to my PES pedestal where I got to look down with an arrogant sneer at those who played FIFA!

Though you're clearly being flippant, many would love that day to return. The way I see it is that.. two games are better than one, and having a simulator fostering MLO and another fostering 11v11 is a great thing - and at the end of the day EA are MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more likely to produce FIFA 12 as a simulator if you, and I have faith in them. FIFA 12 has a much better chance of being a great game if people like Romagnoli continue to strive for it, than it does if all EA are left with in their reputable community are glorified yes/PR men.

 

[romagnoli]

max, it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular - it was all encompassing. So technically you fall within that.

We all want manager modes that we can play too, which sounds like the difference here. You seem to have closed the door on Clubs, possibly online too going by the human interaction comment? That's fine. But there's no way they're going to be separate games and no way they need to be.

 

[klashman69]

Man, it's getting depressing in this thread. Let's get positive!

Anyone looking forward to playing with Average European teams like Basel and some of the Turkish and Russian teams. Should be good trying to win the champions league with them eh?

 

[Lami]

That reminds me, challenge training was a great mode IMO, I don't know why they removed it for PES6... did they ever bring it back?

 

[ant0n]

Man, it's getting depressing in this thread. Let's get positive!

Anyone looking forward to playing with Average European teams like Basel and some of the Turkish and Russian teams. Should be good trying to win the champions league with them eh?

Not if MM is as simplified and boring as it's always been. LOL. I just want to play clubs again.

 

[klashman69]

Not if MM is as simplified and boring as it's always been. LOL. I just want to play clubs again.

Well the one good thing about manager mode/career mode is the real league structure. That's it really. Just like how you could play in such a variety of different leagues.

 

[tonnyrat]

PES 5 = YouTube - PES 5 Superpatch Menu Music

man that song+commentary brings backs some awesome memories.

 

[WEtongelre]

That's the WC 2002 song isin't it?