Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

Northzzz said:
Also is it just me or don't you find people who post their gamertags EVERYWHERE asking for a game (often with a nice comment like 'who fancy a game on fifa world cup 2010 on ps3 add me dannyboyrash and then i will kick ass') a little bit weird. What would be the difference between trying to a find a game that way and playing a random quick match?
Click to expand...

One of the many reasons why all online gaming will be flawed no matter how polished the engine is. The egotistical maniacs who win at all costs and genuinely give a shit about their gaming. I'm competitive, I like to win and obviously I enjoy banter with mates if you're actually playing the game together; making a night of it etc.

But online it's just a whole new level. There's no personality to it if that's the correct way of saying it. It's just the, "I win, I rock. You lose, you suck", mentality that fucking kills online gaming for me.
 
StuartCulli said:
"In order to disrupt the opponent, you'll NEED to press."

"Press and hold A."

Oh, fuck off.
Click to expand...


Wank isn't it? Pressing A or X or whatever should make your player tackle there and then. If you're nowhere near the ball carrier, you tackle and look a right tit, but it'd force you to learn to get close using jockey.
 
StuartCulli said:
One of the many reasons why all online gaming will be flawed no matter how polished the engine is. The egotistical maniacs who win at all costs and genuinely give a shit about their gaming. I'm competitive, I like to win and obviously I enjoy banter with mates if you're actually playing the game together; making a night of it etc.

But online it's just a whole new level. There's no personality to it if that's the correct way of saying it. It's just the, "I win, I rock. You lose, you suck", mentality that fucking kills online gaming for me.
Click to expand...

Online gaming certainly tends to bring out the worst aspects of human nature. Too many bad experiences myself, can't be bothered with it anymore.
 
I loved FIFA 11 VIDEOS, it looks better than PES 2011,
but still something in my head, tactic options in PES is better than FIFA

I hope FIFA will fix this in FIFA 11
 
Online gaming as a whole - be it on FIFA, COD or anything - is now ridiculously over-competitive.

I don't get why they do it at all... Well done, you've cheated and exploited your way into the top 10% in the leaderboards spending hundreds of hours on the game, what has that gained you? Absolutely fuck all! It just reinforces the fact that you're a cunt who has no friends or life, and have too much free time!
 
Rob92 said:
Online gaming as a whole - be it on FIFA, COD or anything - is now ridiculously over-competitive.

I don't get why they do it at all... Well done, you've cheated and exploited your way into the top 10% in the leaderboards spending hundreds of hours on the game, what has that gained you? Absolutely fuck all! It just reinforces the fact that you're a cunt who has no friends or life, and have too much free time!
Click to expand...

Yep, some FPS's are fantastic with a crowd you Know, likewise FIFA online, otherwise most times after 10 min's you start to lose the will to live... :P
 
At the same time, FIFA could be so much fucking better against randomers. The mentality is definitely an issue, but it's not insoluble. Just having a development team who WANT to deal with the exploits/ers/cheats would get this game a long way.

Whilst most people online in games these days are awful, I think in the future Clubs/OTP games where you've got a few mates playing with you should be great fun even against randomers.
 
Can't wait till you can tell us more info about CM, Nick. ;)

Big fan of the mode as you know and I've been silently reading without replying to many of your posts as well as Rod among others. Appreciate the impressions you guys are posting.
 
Rob92 said:
Online gaming as a whole - be it on FIFA, COD or anything - is now ridiculously over-competitive.

I don't get why they do it at all... Well done, you've cheated and exploited your way into the top 10% in the leaderboards spending hundreds of hours on the game, what has that gained you? Absolutely fuck all! It just reinforces the fact that you're a cunt who has no friends or life, and have too much free time!
Click to expand...

I've said it before and I'll say it again: leaderboards are the worst thing to happen to online gaming.
 
I know some of you guys have already seen this but I just now did and, wow, I'm shocked and not sure what to think. My immediate reaction is that FIFA is in trouble, at least as far as i'm concerned. FIFA looks boring in comparison and pes looked, well, fun.

More specifically I noticed fifa's pitch looks too small and cramped, which I've been saying for a while. I know Gary and others have said pitch size is fine and increasing them would not solve the game's problems, but seeing these videos only confirms my opinion, even more so when you consider: pes is clearly the faster of the two based on those vids and yet when players charge for the ball, dribblers still have the time and space to evade the tackle. This simply is not the case in FIFA.

Another issue for me is that FIFA player models are so damn cartoony. I'm not sure that's the correct word for it but others have used it. Pes players look so much sharper, more realistic.

Pes looks fantastic but not perfect and there's two things I see that really bother me: first, after FIFA the lack in freedom of movement is noticeable; and second, the way the ball travels is unrealistic and visually jarring - too speedy and too straight.

As someone who's been calling for fifa's speed to be toned down, I'm at a bit of a loss for why FIFA looks so poor, so boring, so unemotional. I wonder if this marks the end of my brief spell as a FIFA player and my return to pes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SoxSlDLrCM&feature=player_embedded
 
Rodelero said:
It's hardly a good test.
Click to expand...

Nobody said anything about a test but when it comes to video games, comparing gameplay footage is certainly not a terrible "test". Yes, there could be a number of reasons for why the FIFA gameplay looks so dull in comparison but there's no excuse I can think of for most of the points I made.
 
mfmaxpower said:
I know some of you guys have already seen this but I just now did and, wow, I'm shocked and not sure what to think. My immediate reaction is that FIFA is in trouble, at least as far as i'm concerned. FIFA looks boring in comparison and pes looked, well, fun.

More specifically I noticed fifa's pitch looks too small and cramped, which I've been saying for a while. I know Gary and others have said pitch size is fine and increasing them would not solve the game's problems, but seeing these videos only confirms my opinion, even more so when you consider: pes is clearly the faster of the two based on those vids and yet when players charge for the ball, dribblers still have the time and space to evade the tackle. This simply is not the case in FIFA.

Another issue for me is that FIFA player models are so damn cartoony. I'm not sure that's the correct word for it but others have used it. Pes players look so much sharper, more realistic.

Pes looks fantastic but not perfect and there's two things I see that really bother me: first, after FIFA the lack in freedom of movement is noticeable; and second, the way the ball travels is unrealistic and visually jarring - too speedy and too straight.

As someone who's been calling for fifa's speed to be toned down, I'm at a bit of a loss for why FIFA looks so poor, so boring, so unemotional. I wonder if this marks the end of my brief spell as a FIFA player and my return to pes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SoxSlDLrCM&feature=player_embedded
Click to expand...




A great post. I feel similarly (EA have been napping too long) but I can still see FIFA11 as being the best football game this gen, thusfar, overall. Why? Well because, overall it offers a lot more game-time-wise. The gameplay itself is solid and enjoyable if not a little limiting and the graphics really are smoothly, sveltly, steller upclose.

The problem for EA is, and this video highlights it, the foundations they built FIFA NEXT GEN upon are showing signs of rust. Such as pitch sizes. How many times have we asked for the pitch at Old Trafford to be closer to the stands, only to be told that that's not possible for them or palmed off with some other excuse. I sincerely think all the pitches can only be one size and of a certain distance to the action to maintain game performance.

Another issue I can see that PES seems to handle flawlessly is player MOTION. INERTIA. Watch those vids again. The defenders in PES actually have a response time to adhere to. If they get turned by an attacker they can go off balance and be left for dead but if they aren't turned they can still hold their ground or track back to block passing lanes. The FIFA defenders aren't being turned at all. Their actual bodies aren't rotating at the hip either way. Always balanced and poised for the tackle like a shimmying wall.

The final gameplay element that PES has over FIFA from looking at the vid is how quickly the player can release a pass and the control thereafter. Look at the vid. PES' players can release a pass or shot at many differing angles. The only problem is that they don't have the animations to match those angles at times. However, I can see konami are making the effort to get them in there though. I've seen loads of different shooting animations in the new PES2011 videos.

Graphically, I think PES has the lighting nailed but FIFA has caught up with player models (shapes and faces).

Basically EA has been caught sleeping at the wheel. PES has caught up exponentially on EA's incremental efforts and it's starting to show. By next year we won't be able to tell which game is better (both will have their faults as usual) but for EA to let it get that close again is asinine. Especially with a full licence. Especially with what was a 2year gap.

I've said this since Konami released their first vid in MAY (yes MAY, a full 3-4months before EA) that I'm back on the PES this year regardless of what EA produce, and this hasn't changed. From the marketing to the actual reveal there hasn't been a strong enough conviction about EA's direction with FIFA11 imo and it shows in a vid such as above.

Having played it myself I can say that if you liked FIFA10 you will love FIFA11. If you grew to loath FIFA10 you will be happy but demand more.

(all imo btw).
 
The pitch size thing is just utter, definitive proof that people don't know what they are talking about. This is a fact - Old Trafford's pitch in FIFA, in any sense that matters to gameplay, is exactly the same dimensional/physical size as Old Trafford in real life. As for the endless and completely irreverent whinging about how far it is from the stadium - we know why this is. It's a pity, but it would take a lot of work which could be put in better places to deal with this. Of course they could change this - but it would require a change to the way they've dealt with the stadia in this engine which is a change which takes a long time. It's hardly gamebreaing.

In actual gameplay terms, its utterly meaningless. The question is simple - is FIFA's engine advanced enough to deal with the GAMEPLAY changes necessary - yes it is.

FIFA 11 is a game which will go to prove what the problem is - EA are being pulled two ways by their community. If they can get over that hurdle, it will be like a dam bursting - but until they do, we are going almost nowhere. I'm not happy about it - but it's absurd to think the engine is at fault - and it's worse still because it neglects the fact that what really is wrong: EA's intentions.
 
Last edited:
Rodelero said:
The pitch size thing is just utter, definitive proof that people don't know what they are talking about. This is a fact - Old Trafford's pitch in FIFA, in any sense that matters to gameplay, is exactly the same dimensional/physical size as Old Trafford in real life. As for the endless and completely irreverent whinging about how far it is from the stadium - we know why this is. It's a pity, but it would take a lot of work which could be put in better places to deal with this.
Click to expand...

Even if I take your word for it on the first point, the second does not negate my comment on the rust that has reared it's head regarding their flexibility with pitches. Working with a few graphics packages I know that scaling is highly important from the very start of the project. Fuck up from the start and you won't get a chance to sort it out, ever.

It's not soley the fault of the pitches though. Players cover a lot of ground too quickly and "pressing and holding X to press" leads to a dispossesion every other second. These are also things are making play seem congested.

In actual gameplay terms, its utterly meaningless. The question is simple - is FIFA's engine advanced enough to deal with the GAMEPLAY changes necessary - yes it is.
Click to expand...

Yes, but I've said this in my write-up and I'll say it now, unless EA actually apply these changes rather than hinting at them subtely (mulitple players jumping for a ball etc) then how am I to know? The proof is in the pudding and in that vid (the pudding) we can clearly see that we're not having much time on the ball in FIFA. And that's just one of many aspects that EA should be looking into. I'm not going to stop going on about my fellow attacking AI. Needs to react quick if they're rated highly and runs need to be smarter. Maybe they can adapt the set-piece creator to allow you to craft attacking formations? The tech is right there is it not?

Edit: I just saw your edit and I agree EA need to sort out their direction. Didn't I sa exactly that in my first post though?

"From the marketing to the actual reveal there hasn't been a strong enough conviction about EA's direction with FIFA11 imo and it shows in a vid such as above."

From that vid you can't tell which game has the licence, (from the slickness though you can see FIFA has more cash behind it tech-wise), and that surely is a failure on EA's part. Hopefully with the new-found ties with the Barclays Premier League they have more visual reminders of their licence on the fiel from presentation to gameplay (maybe instead of EA swoshes we can get the logo of the home team swooshing by?).

Just a few thoughts..
 
Last edited:
gameklip said:
Even if I take your word for it on the first point
Click to expand...

You can measure the distances yourself, compare goalsize to sixyard to penaltyarea (all which have specific dimensions) to the pitch, and it checks out.

the second does not negate my comment on the rust that has reared it's head regarding their flexibility with pitches. Working with a few graphics packages I know that scaling is highly important from the very start of the project. Fuck up from the start and you won't get a chance to sort it out, ever.
Click to expand...

Not really - it's just probably quite a large change in terms of cost against the benefit. It's a visual thing, but the actual problem comes down to EVERY stadium they have built fits around the same fundamental pitch. It would take recrafting every stadium to 'fix' it to people's likes. This just doesn't add up to EA.

If you look at FIFA 07, and look at FIFA 11, they are unrecognisable - EA are plenty capable of changing large chunks of the game. They just don't think it's wortwhile. Please, if there is an example of EA's faults - this really shouldn't be it. It completely misses the point.

It's not soley the fault of the pitches though. Players cover a lot of ground too quickly and "pressing and holding X to press" leads to a dispossesion every other second. These are also things are making play seem congested.
Click to expand...

You could argue perhaps that the physical shape of the players is too large - but frankly if you play from a zoomed out view (my personal preference is totally zoomed out and a little less high than the default).. and you SEE the space. But that space disappears immediately - as you say - becuase of how fast players cover space. Though, having said that it's primarily an acceleration thing - and a stamina thing.

Yes, but I've said this in my write-up and I'll say it now, unless EA actually apply these changes rather than hinting at them subtely (mulitple players jumping for a ball etc) then how am I to know? The proof is in the pudding and in that vid (the pudding) we can clearly see that we're not having much time on the ball in FIFA. And that's just one of many aspect that EA should be looking into. I'm not going to stop going on about my fellow attacking AI. Needs to react quick if they're rated highly and runs need to be smarter. Maybe they can adapt the set-piece creator to allow you to craft attacking formations? The tech is right there is it not?
Click to expand...

The video doesn't prove shit about how much time you have on the ball. If you fail to react to someone moving at you and the other player pressures all the time, then it will look like there is no time on the ball. The question is whether it's effective to pressure all the time, or not. The game would be wrong to FORCE you to play right - the game needs to encourage you to play right and if you don't you should get screwed.

If tehy have failed to solve this, it's because they are weak when it comes to giving us what we want. It's the same story - casual v hardcore. They aren't incompetent - but they have a great formula for making money and they are scared to change it.
 
Rodelero said:
The pitch size thing is just utter, definitive proof that people don't know what they are talking about.
Click to expand...

That's a bit harsh. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about but I'm pretty sure I'm allowed opinions and there's enough FIFA and pes veterans out there that have suggested bigger pitch sizes that I don't think it was an outlandish point.

This is a fact - Old Trafford's pitch in FIFA, in any sense that matters to gameplay, is exactly the same dimensional/physical size as Old Trafford in real life.
...
In actual gameplay terms, its utterly meaningless. The question is simple - is FIFA's engine advanced enough to deal with the GAMEPLAY changes necessary - yes it is.
Click to expand...

Are you saying you don't think there's a difference between the two games' pitch sizes? When playing pes there certainly seems more space to operate than in FIFA; when watching games I get the same impression. A lot of other pes/FIFA players have expressed similar views. I don't give a rat's ass if the pitch sizes are equal to their real world counterparts, all that matters is how the game plays. Am I saying pitch size is the biggest or only problem? No. But until I see some definitive proof that fifa's pitch size isn't an issue I'll remain apprehensive.

In the end I can't talk in depth about EA's intentions or their gameplay engine because I'm neither a mindreader nor game designer, so you'll have to forgive me if all I can comment on are gameplay experiences and footage of the new game. When I see something that doesn't resemble the real game, I mention it and take a guess at a solution.
 
Rodelero said:
You could argue perhaps that the physical shape of the players is too large - but frankly if you play from a zoomed out view (my personal preference is totally zoomed out and a little less high than the default).. and you SEE the space.
Click to expand...
Yep, right off the bat you can see in the comparison video that PES has camera perspective that is similar to broadcast standards so width-wise you can almost see end-to-end (in FIFA it's zoomed in closer, you can't even see the touch lines when you're playing down the centre.) I'm surprised that not many people took notice of this and extrapolate how the difference in camera perspective creates the illusion of larger space.

Speed of play (or should I say, talent) aside, it's the main reason why televised games held in the biggest football stadium we have here in my country (that can seat 6000 but has an international size pitch) looks congested as they can only position the camera so high. It's also the reason why I used to think that the pitch in Sega's WorldWide soccer was too cramped compared to Konami's GoalStorm until I finally switched to a higher angle, same principle applies here...
 
Last edited:
Camera angles certainly can deceive but I've played enough of both games to know that FIFA feels more cramped. That's just my opinion of course, but there's plenty of others who've expressed similar views. Again, I'm not saying it's any type of definitive solution, but until I have concrete reason to think otherwise, I'll remain unconvinced regarding fifa's pitches.
 
No-one sane would deny that FIFA is cramped as hell - but it's nothing to do with the pitches physical size. Making it larger would be a false solution - when the obvious ones are really not that complex. The main culprit, in FIFA 11, for the pitches being cramped will be the acceleration speeds. It's a simple case of, if I have three meters between me and an opponent, and that opponent is standing still, or even running away from me, I know that he can almost instantaneously cut the space between us. That's the core of what is wrong. You don't have the time to react that you should have.

Visually, if the pitch looks 'cramped' I'd say the main reason might just be players do look quite bulky - but then that camera angle is not one even remotely close to a real football camera.
 
Nick Cave said:
On for this Friday by the looks, I have the questions from the thread but as it's now closed if you think of any other CM stuff you would like to know I'll keep a check...
Click to expand...

Not sure if it was asked already (I saw it mentioned previously but can't remember if it was asked in the sense of being a question to find out):

They say the transfer system is all new right? So please check that you can sign a free transfer player outside of the transfer window as in real life, if the answer is no ask them why the hell not!
 
Played 08 yesterday, just to see how much of a difference the games are.

Have to say I was pleasantly surprised by 08, yes the players look crap and out of proportion, reaction times are a bit slower (but not game breaking), however I was playing on professional and I just couldnt get past the defense (Liverpool v Derby!). Their positioning and tracking felt far better and shooting actually had some dip!

Not sure if the better reactions and player controls now bypasses the "better" defense of 08, but it felt a lot better and smarter.
 
Placebo said:
Not sure if it was asked already (I saw it mentioned previously but can't remember if it was asked in the sense of being a question to find out):

They say the transfer system is all new right? So please check that you can sign a free transfer player outside of the transfer window as in real life, if the answer is no ask them why the hell not!
Click to expand...
Added... ;))
 
Rodelero said:
No-one sane would deny that FIFA is cramped as hell - but it's nothing to do with the pitches physical size. Making it larger would be a false solution - when the obvious ones are really not that complex. The main culprit, in FIFA 11, for the pitches being cramped will be the acceleration speeds. It's a simple case of, if I have three meters between me and an opponent, and that opponent is standing still, or even running away from me, I know that he can almost instantaneously cut the space between us. That's the core of what is wrong. You don't have the time to react that you should have.

Visually, if the pitch looks 'cramped' I'd say the main reason might just be players do look quite bulky - but then that camera angle is not one even remotely close to a real football camera.
Click to expand...

I think the fear with saying it's acceleration speeds is that EA will then rule that out by saying "but we've got slower acceleration speeds than PES", which may even be true from a technical standpoint but doesn't feel remotely the case in practice.

Rod, when the demos land it'd be well worth having a look at where the momentum is conserved in PES compared to where it isn't in FIFA. Chiefly it seems to be the drop in speed when turning that PES nails, meaning you can't afford to turn several times in quick succession without slowing way down - but that affects the defenders as well as the attackers. It might be an idea to bookmark that Mexican vid of Pepe jogging around extremely nimbly and comparing it to the same player if Real are in the PES demo.
 
I wonder why we have the pitch issue, if as Rod says the size is not the problem, is it an optical illusion?..
Are the players sizes the issue?.. I must admit to wanting a larger pitch or scaling down the players slightly before now...

On the playing front it seems we are now at a point where most people (and by that I mean us nerds on these forums) know what needs to be addressed in the game and we can see why EA are reluctant to implement them..
I do wonder if there is a some Holy Grail copy they have somewhere that has all Simulation elements we want...:PIRATE::JAY:
 
Jamezinho said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: leaderboards are the worst thing to happen to online gaming.
Click to expand...
Leaderboards have been in games forever. Don't forget that old arcade machines were all about putting your three initials on that high score list. Or AAA. Most people were called Adam Arnold Andrews back then, I think.

They exist today for the same purpose: to give punters an incentive to keep coming back to play the game some more. This is especially important in an annual title where you want to sustain interest in the franchise and the profile thereof. Keep as much of them playing as much of the year round as possible. If the leaderboards went, so would the attention of that large portion of gamers who are motivated by climbing those rankings.

I don't play FIFA online, but it strikes me that (at least part of) the solution would be more intelligent match-making, making it easier for people to find like-minded gamers to play with.

mfmaxpower said:
FIFA looks boring in comparison and pes looked, well, fun.
Click to expand...
I think the one thing I like from the PES videos in comparison to FIFA is that the ball looks more like an independent object. It can bounce free and loose in PES more, by the looks. In FIFA it feels an extension of players - in a bad way. There's so rarely a scramble for a genuinely loose ball, and every rebound appears to fall straight to a player. I could swear they fudge those rebounds, give them a bias towards a nearby player, or maybe the players just home in too immediately. Any wildly hacked clearance still seems to be met right at the bounce point by a teammate or opponent. It's unnatural.

Boil pretty much any ball sport down to its basic component: ball trajectory. Is it bouncing inside the court, is it heading between the sticks, is it within the goalkeeper's/goaltender's reach, is it falling toward our team or their's, is the unexpected deflection lucky or unlucky. It's smooth and spherical and bouncey; the unpredictability is half the fun. The effort toward manipulating this elusive object is the game, any game.

This is another reason why people use the dreaded 'scripted' word in FIFA. Whether it's caused by the ball physics or the way players behave/move - probably both - the ball feels too neatly attached. Throw in the repetitive, un-inventive off-the-ball movement (if I see another CPU striker make that same in-to-out diagonal run for a ball down the line every time... argh) and everything feels so samey and predictable.

'Predictable' is never exciting or emotional.

Speaking of exciting and emotional, in FIFA you never seem to get the ball really thumping off the goalposts. It's one of the most electric moments in the sport, when a shot crashes down off the bar or cannons away wildly off the post. There are a couple of moments in the PES footage in that video. In FIFA the goalposts seem too soft, or maybe shots don't travel fast enough. I want to hear an almighty clang and see the frame rattle and the ball spin away to who-knows-where.

In FIFA it would probably cushion the ball nicely into the path of the next CPU player...

EA themselves have used the phrase 'emotional response'. In football it's the intake of breath as the ball bounces loose around the penalty area, the unknown of the ensuing desperation to reach it first (where they could actually use this 360 contact thing they're banging on about this year), the gasp of 30,000+ as Pienaar's curler pings off the crossbar with Friedel rooted, the shock as Tevez shanks one over an open goal from eight yards, the appreciation of an imaginative one-two that comes off in creative way... and so on.

I understand that such emergent unpredictability is a difficult thing to engineer with ones and zeros, but it's something both games would do well to focus on, I think. Because right now, when people use the words 'scripted' or 'on rails', you can see what they mean.

mfmaxpower said:
Pes looks fantastic but not perfect and there's two things I see that really bother me: first, after FIFA the lack in freedom of movement is noticeable; and second, the way the ball travels is unrealistic and visually jarring - too speedy and too straight.
Click to expand...
Something that bugs me about PES videos is how often you'll see the recipient of a pass stop dead and stand still, awaiting the arrival of the ball. That looks jarring. It happens very rarely in real football, particularly in the opposing half of the pitch. They would step towards the ball and shape themselves to receive it at the orientation they want, not plant their feet square and wait stationary until it gets there.
 
Last edited:
I've seen some vids and pictures and there were a LOT of player faces that looked just like them now or close enough to be recognizable and some of them were pretty average reputation players, not big ones. So I was impressed too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom