Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

Nick Cave said:
Apparently EAs' response, "they are expensive and everyone just skips them anyway", yet they make celebrations a big PR point and almost a mode in itself and the reason people skip the cut scenes is they're the same four we had in the previous incarnation...

This reminds me of PES standing still and taking things out to add atweak here and there...
Click to expand...
Yeah right. Sponsoring the Premier League, THAT's expensive!
 
in the in.com vid not one time does anyone use normal dribble to try and beat anyone even thoug EA have imprroved it apparently. Goal celebrations are quality imo. The cam angle is weird but finally we're see some passion from the celebrations. I love how kaka ripped that shot in.

In the in.com vid you can tell human v human will always be franetic but I sort of noticed the holes opening up in theteams as they got more tired from the constant pressuring. As long as that is a viable tacti i'll just pass the ball back and along my back line and wing to wing until the opposition player relents. That's how you combat pressure. You don't just keep charging mindlessly into a midfield mire. If the pressure is punished as EA say with slower response and fatigue then it should atleast be fair.

The youtubed vid on the other page is a really nice one imo.

As I said, i play a decent game of "semi" so you should see some interestingimpressions next week. I will be upset if my player can pass 180degrees while falling with pace and accuracy. That shit should be GONE from the game. In real life it's impossible. If they want to keep something like that in the game they should make the turning tighter for skilled player so they can atleast turn before. The Youtube on the other page shows the Leverkusen player making a nice turn near the end.

I personally am not to worried. I just want to see more out of Pro Passing and P+. I'll grill EA on that and ask them why it's not as evident in the vids we've seen thusfar.

In the chelsea vid though i was impressed when at one point the guy tries to stroll past essien and essien snapped a tackle at him and snatched the ball of him. Looked realistic. Someone was doing a long stride run with a striker as well. Looks quality. It will have it's moments (P+) but PP concerns me. Needs more punishment for inaccuracy from defenders.
 
That last vid showed far more passing error, thankfully. EDIT Or it was the last one before all these others got posted....

After the storm of dissapointment with the early videos more and more of the improvements seem to be visible. Just hope the guys on monday can give us a definitive anwser.
 
Last edited:
Well FIFA10 IS fun to play and this definitely looks better than that and the World Cup game (which was even better than FIFA10).

My worry is ProPassing:

YouTube - FIFA 11 Gameplay - Real v Barca

What have EA been doing for 11 months? Cause simply tweaking sliders won't cut it for a new release. Be-A-Keeper & Creation Centre will be about as relevent as being a defender and gameface in FIFA10.

I fear EA dropped the ball this year with regard to where they've put their effort. My hope is it feels much fresher when played.
 
Gab_ said:
I like the new in game celebrations and that people grab on to other players in game, looks great. Like when Kaka scored and he didn't even have time to start celebrating because a team mate grabbed him. Or when he slides on his knees and another player pull him down, all in game, that's impressive stuff to me, but I'm an IK whore so that might just be me.
Click to expand...
They all look contextual and simplistic; cpu draw teammates towards you and the type of celebration pulled off is determined from whether you are standing or on the ground. You can see a split-second stutter before they're performed so there's nothing really IK about it; we're still years away from procedurally generated animations ala BackBreaker's euphoria engine.

On the other hand, it's nice that you have a smaller window of opportunity to manually perform your own celebrations because the multi-player ones seems to be triggered even when your teammates are a meter away from you.
 
Last edited:
I wonder if there are things EA may be adding as we speak that were going to be held back for next year as they seem to be behind PES at the moment, I know they are still saying there are other features and Modes due to come but I just can't see how or why they would be leaving it this late?...
 
adelante said:
They all look contextual and simplistic; cpu draw teammates towards you and the type of celebration pulled off is determined from whether you are standing or on the ground. You can see a split-second stutter before they're performed so there's nothing really IK about it; we're still years away from procedurally generated animations ala BackBreaker's euphoria engine.
Click to expand...

Where did I say IK is the same as procedurally generated animations? It's adjustments of limbs in the animations. Of course there is IK in these new celebrations, doesn't mean it's something amazing that looks more lifelike than life. It's a million times better than before (remember everyone being the same height?).

Edit: Also you made it sound bad that they are contextual?
 
to be fair to the vid above the ball does start to bobble more with each first time pass and it is barca but defenders shouldn't have that good a pass. If one of those players is Puyol for instance, he would struggle to keep up in a move like that.

Another short vid:

YouTube - Fifa 11 von der Gamescom!
 
Other modes and features still yet to be revealed?? Just when I thought we would be free of any more potential worries that new features inherently bring -_-
 
nerf said:
The thing about ping pong passing is that it goes way beyond just accuracy error.

Yes, first-time passes and passes at difficult angles (180 degrees, etc) should be less consistently accurate, this is true. But most of the problem comes from the facility of the mindset that each next pass can go forwards, quickly.

Watch any video of FIFA and notice how almost every pass goes diagonally forwards. Diagonal forward pass, touch, diagonal forward pass, turn, diagonal forward pass, first-time diagonal forward pass, shoot.

This is not how real football is played, 90% of the time.

In FIFA there's almost never a need to pass backwards, or even sideways half the time. There's never the feeling of being forced to turn and play the safe ball back to your centre-back, to start again. The 'protect the ball and hold possession' pass. In FIFA, the 'hold possession' pass is an easy diagonal fowards pass to the next teammate up the pitch, standing happily unmarked.

There's no risk in the forward pass, so why not play it?

Firstly, as we know, there's no risk because contextual/attribute error in past FIFA games is non-existent, so you know the forward pass will unerringly reach its target and be controlled perfectly. This is supposed to change in FIFA 11, we'll see. My presumptive feeling is that it will have nowhere near the necessary impact on high-attributed 5-star teams, which is all anyone uses.

One of the great joys of Manual controls is that it introduces an amount of uncertainty, because the factor of human error compromises your confidence that the forward pass will be an accurate one. So sometimes you elect to play safe and play backwards, knowing that a pass to a wide open & stationary teammate behind you requires less precision than a pass to a teammate with opponents in close vicinity, or weighting it into the path a moving target. This uncertainty is absent with Assisted controls, so your pass selection is not compromised.

Secondly, and perhaps even more importantly, there's no risk because the next teammate up the pitch is so often unmarked, so you know he will have time and space to receive it safely. The AI is clearly not very smart when it comes to marking. In real professional football, a player has to use intelligent movement to shake his marker and/or to locate a few yards of space to offer for a pass. Simultaneously, his teammate with the ball often has to delay and wait for said movement to develop, rather than always having an instant un-marked option like you get in FIFA.

Thirdly, this inability to mark players tightly (and we rely on the AI for this, because we only control one guy at a time) is exacerbated by the complete lack of team shape, of team-wide organisation. Look at any video of FIFA gameplay and it is a challenge to figure out what formation either midfield is supposed to be in. They're just a cluster of individuals chasing their tails. Where's the risk in passing through or around a random jumble of individuals? It makes that forward pass easy because of the wide open passing lanes, and makes finding forward space easy because there's no shape covering those zones.

Diagonal forwards pass, diagonal forwards pass, diagonal forwards pass...

The very idea of equating FIFA's flowing ping pong with so-called 'playing like Barcelona' couldn't possibly be more erroneous. Spain & Barca play more backwards and sideways passes than anyone. The fact that they are better technically-equipped than anyone else to manipulate the ball in tight areas still does not result in forward pass after forward pass.

In real life, that pass back to your centre-half is usually the option with a higher chance of success than a forward pass to your striker. That's not about technique or passing accuracy, you can't mystically pass towards your own goal more accurately than you can pass towards the opposition goal. It's because you're not trying to force the ball past/between opponents, to a teammate who is marked and likely to be under pressure when he receives it, in a situation where any inaccuracy results in a loss of possession. Your centre-back, in contrast, has the time and space to gather almost any quality of pass safely, because he is un-marked and not under pressure. Passing should be about the availability of teammates in context of the shape and organisation of the opposing team.

All of this is what FIFA fails to emulate and the same is true for PES, or any other football video game I've ever known. When one dev team recognises this, when they realise that it goes beyond just making four defenders stand in a line, I'm convinced their game will take a leap ahead of their direct competition and anything we've played before.
Click to expand...

Here is Fifa, ladies and gentlemen.:WORSHIP:

What makes me get :RANT: is the fact that there are so many people in forums claiming that Fifa is a sim with that unrealistic, unbalanced and unchallenging (crap AI) gameplay. What a fucking joke! Very sad that in brazilian's forums I can't say the truh about Fifa and it's "amazing" animatios that, becaus they are enough to make the game the most realistic game on earth (:SHOCK:). Saying anything negative about fifa means that I'm a pure troll and I'm a blind PES fan in brazilian's forums. WTF ?!!

ps: brazilian people should know football :SHOCK:... very sad;
 
Gab_ said:
Where did I say IK is the same as procedurally generated animations? It's adjustments of limbs in the animations. Of course there is IK in these new celebrations, doesn't mean it's something amazing that looks more lifelike than life. It's a million times better than before (remember everyone being the same height?).

Edit: Also you made it sound bad that they are contextual?
Click to expand...

There's no IK in the celebrations because for starters you still see geometry clipping so the animations are all precalculated without taking into consideration of the player size, build, etc. Any implementation of IK in games is usually for interactive posture control and you already know FIFA uses this to position a player's feet to ball within anthropomorphic constraints so the ball feels untethered. There's absolutely no need for IK in a animation where you have no control i.e. it's unnecessary to keep calculating the position of the a player's limbs in a hugging animation because that is already recorded in motion capture.

An example where they might want to implement IK during a celebration is if say, you're running around after scoring a goal when a cpu teammate follows close behind and reaches his hand to touch your shoulder. As you run, his hand remains stuck on your shoulder but his extended limbs (arms, shoulders, etc) bend and rotates accordingly as you turn.

I only brought up procedurally generated animations because apart from loading in a predefined animation, it's another more elegant solution than what you're implying here (which is the extensive use of IK to calculate position of limbs as soon as the celebration is triggered). And, I never said it's bad that this is all contextually driven; just pointing out the possible trigger mechanic behind determining the different types of celebration.
 
Last edited:
CarlitosCZE said:
YouTube - Fifa 11 - Gameplay-Demo (Leverkusen - Madrid), gamescom Nice one:))
Click to expand...

This video is probably the best in terms of pace/gamespeed.

New animations I loved in this video:

- The save from the keeper with his leg
- The passing using chest(?) afetr a throw-in
Very good.:WORSHIP:

Many passes from leverkusen seemed to show that pro passing was on. The only thing I hate from leverkussen there, in terms of passing (and in previous Fifa), was that quick passing in wich the player seems to perform it with his wrong foot, i don't know.

Real Madrid is a stronger team, we all know that, so it's fine the fact that passes from real madrid seem to be more accurate, but it seems that pro passing is not making impact there (for RM, of course), and if it's on for RM, that worries me.

The AI for Leverkusen was shocking in some simple attacking plays from RM. Another non-sense gaps through the defence, and the defender who should be there closing that gap was running out of position.
 
gameklip said:
What have EA been doing for 11 months? Cause simply tweaking sliders won't cut it for a new release. Be-A-Keeper & Creation Centre will be about as relevent as being a defender and gameface in FIFA10.
Click to expand...

True that. Hopefully the answer is this:

Nick Cave said:
I wonder if there are things EA may be adding as we speak that were going to be held back for next year as they seem to be behind PES at the moment, I know they are still saying there are other features and Modes due to come but I just can't see how or why they would be leaving it this late?...
Click to expand...

But really, what are EA doing even now? Rutter & co said "lots" more info was yet to come but we're 6 weeks away from release. What, is their strategy? Build our anxiety levels to just before breaking point and then try to wow us with some new feature or something?

I think it's fair to say EA are doing an absolutely horrendous job with PR this year. Throw us a friggin bone already!

Also, I'm confused about Pro Passing - where's the power meter at? Is not suppose to be above the player's head? Or is it in the lower corners above their names?
 
The pro passing meter is now at the top of the player status bar, where you see the green-yellow-red bar when they pass. If Pro Passing is on, you see a white indicator on the bar to show what the optimum pass would be - it looks like two white arrows pointing at the bar from the top and bottom.

That's just one part of Pro Passing though, and it's the bit which can be taken off.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom