Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

Rob92 said:
In the end, this is just a game of fake football designed to waste our free time.

I think most of us (me incluced) need to learn to not treat it as such an important thing :P.
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Yup but it is a "game" after all and a "game" suppose to be fun to play innit. For me i dont find fifa "fun" to play on 1v1 and especially in club/bap mode as all you ever face are clones who exploit this game turning a regular footy match into a arcade ping pong 200mph speed of peoples clones outpacing your defence.

@others, yea its just a shaking cam but people like us can only judge from what we can see/play and at the moment all we can see are these videos. We are all waiting for the demo to make a final decision though.

O and i would like to mention the pc version. if and i mean if fifa 11 on consoles is near identical to fifa 10 and pc version is basicaly fifa 10 +WC then as far as i can see, fifa 11 on pc is basicaly 95% identical in terms of gameplay to the consoles
 
Fc_Zenit_Fan said:
Great post. I just looked at the video again, and yes, Barcelona does has pro-passing off and Real has it on and you can clearly see the difference, especially with Messi making a perfect cross with his right foot. I'm a bit more positive/excited about the game. I agree though, we need more footage!
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For the dozenth time: You CAN'T turn ProPassing on/off. There is simply no option for that. All you can do is to turn the Powergauge on/off.

So basically the error rate of the pass is always controlled by ProPassing (at least this is intended by EA) but you can choose if you also want to control the power of the pass.
 
tonnyrat said:
ugh...
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Regarding this, i think the main problem is that it looks like 80 percent of the acceleration when moving from stationary to normal dribble speed happens with the very first step. The acceleration curve seems way too steep the first half-second.

Also this doesnt even taken into consideration that the conservation of the players movement is way too high through alot of turns and pass trapping moves, meaning if they corrected the acceleration curve, they still would have the problem of players not being slowed down nearly enough in many situations, and sothey wouldnt even be affected by the longer acceleration curve. This also means that an unbalance would take place, since a sprinting or runnung attacker receiving a pass could angle around, loosing almost no speed, and fly past a stationary defender, who would take even longer to get up to speed to chase him down. To me there is more than one angle this problem works on.
 
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Trance_Allstar said:
Regarding this, i think the main problem is that it looks like 80 percent of the acceleration when moving from stationary to normal dribble speed happens with the very first step. The acceleration curve seems way too steep the first half-second.

Also this doesnt even taken into consideration that the conservation of the players movement is way too high through alot of turns and pass trapping moves, meaning if they corrected the acceleration curve, they still would have the problem of players not being slowed down nearly enough in many situations, and sothey wouldnt even be affected by the longer acceleration curve. This also means that an unbalance would take place, since an attacker receiving a pass would fly past a stationary defender, who would take even longer to get up to speed to chase him down. To me there is more than one angle this problem works on.
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So have EA given you a job yet, or are they afraid of hiring someone who might make the game too realistic?
 
Surprised nobody has mentioned the lighting yet, I watched the PES11 GC video yesterday and was blown away by how impressive the lighting looks, they seem to have nailed it and occasionally if you can look past the poor PES animations you think you're watching a real match, the Fifa lighting on the other hand still looks iffy, can't understand how they still after the 9th or 10th Fifa game on next gen cannot get it right :(
 
Gg1 said:
I analysed a bit the Screenshots :
fifa11.jpg


;) :D
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On another screen shot you can seen Jean Makoun's half socks in addition to the knee high socks.
 
Shooto said:
EA/KONAMI are so big because they know how to make money. Hardcore gamers for want of better word are but a drop in the ocean when it comes to sales. If all Evo-web didn't buy fifa or pes they wouldn't even notice.

It is strange to see all the negativity surfacing from a few shaky cams from gamescon. Wait till the demos land and we can try for ourselves.j
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That wasn't really my point, the point is that "casual" players follows hardcore players, therefore they drop a lot of sales in time.

FIFA always sold well because it's the official game full with licenses, give those licenses to Konami and everyone would buy PES instead, it's as simple as that.

PES 5 didn't sell so amazingly well because it was a game for casual people, it was the hardcore footballers dream come true. If you "knew anything about football", that was the game to play. Whatever people hear is the best/coolest/realistic game to play from people "in the know" they follow. It's not just in games, this is applied for all products in life (firefox anyone).

I say it again, the only reason FIFA is so big now is because of us PES people that are early adopters. FIFA 08 didn't have an amazing following directly, even if that game is pretty much the same as FIFA 09 that had more people coming. That's because it was still cool to hate FIFA back then. But time move on and more and more casuals hear from people that "knows their stuff" that FIFA is actually the "cool" game now and the migration starts to happen.

I remember seeing a video about the coca cola company showing that they get this, because they were out looking for group leaders, the people that the group of friends listened to/followed. So they made sure to understand exactly what that leader type wanted from them, what was important in life style and all (because it's not as straight forward as a football game). So they single out the people that they know others will listen to and that is how they grow bigger and bigger, not because they target casuals, that should always be the indirect target.

I mean that's the whole point of inviting people like Romagnoli and other football brains. So there are certainly people at EA that seem to get this, however I do think that people higher up in the company don't get this at all and still tells them to make sure casual people is the goal (because there are more casual people duurrrrrr duurrrr).

I'll finish this long post by saying that realistic doesn't mean that the game is harder to play so that casuals can't play it. They have this idea of what people think is "fun" which is based on this myth about less depth equals more fun.
 
Placebo said:
Surprised nobody has mentioned the lighting yet, I watched the PES11 GC video yesterday and was blown away by how impressive the lighting looks, they seem to have nailed it and occasionally if you can look past the poor PES animations you think you're watching a real match, the Fifa lighting on the other hand still looks iffy, can't understand how they still after the 9th or 10th Fifa game on next gen cannot get it right :(
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I know it's hard to judge from the short and poor vids we have had but I seem to prefer the PES ones for most of the graphics even with the dodgy animations... :PIRATE:
 
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FIFA always sold well because it's the official game full with licenses, give those licenses to Konami and everyone would buy PES instead, it's as simple as that.
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This is a massive reason, you look at posts on the EA site and it's full of kids who state the main reason FIFA beats PES is real names, teams and kits...

So they single out the people that they know others will listen to and that is how they grow bigger and bigger, not because they target casuals, that should always be the indirect target.

I mean that's the whole point of inviting people like Romagnoli and other football brains. So there are certainly people at EA that seem to get this, however I do think that people higher up in the company don't get this at all and still tells them to make sure casual people is the goal (because there are more casual people duurrrrrr duurrrr).
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Or you single out people who will spend all their waking moments promoting and basically working for EA for free, who will be online 24/7 pushing the game to the masses or people that have web site links that will do just the same... :P


I'll finish this long post by saying that realistic doesn't mean that the game is harder to play so that casuals can't play it. They have this idea of what people think is "fun" which is based on this myth about less depth equals more fun.
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Amen to that, there will always be people that want nothing more than to pick up and play and the game has that, there will be people who want to do a Management career, these people want the depth in the game, the realism that makes the game immersing and involving.. There are those that want to find every loop-whole and glitch in the game so they can win at all cost and these people have..... online... :P



I say it again, the only reason FIFA is so big now is because of us PES people that are early adopters.
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We made FIFA,:SHOCK: and I have been buying it all these years, I demand a free copy...:PIRATE:
 
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For me the most illustrative example of why FIFA10 was such a failure as a football game was the first time I played my fiancee’s lil brother. He’s fantastic at video games, but more Modern Warfare etc, and has no interest in football whatsoever. Whereas I’m a reasonably hardcore football game fan, and know way too much about the sport. We played 3 matches, he on assisted, me on semi-assisted, and once he got the controls sorted, he beat me in all 3. I was trying to make triangles, create space, play through balls and so forth, and he was just pressuring and tearing away with sprint. And it worked.

It’s clear this isn’t by accident. Someone at EA (screw you Peter Moore!) clearly believes that accessibility is the most important thing in these games.

But that’s so clearly bullsh*t. The best selling games of the past few years have been World of Warcraft, Modern Warfare and the Guitar Hero games. Not one of those is the type of game where a newbie can take on an experienced gamer and win (on the same difficulty anyway). They take hours and hours to get good at. And buyers love em.

Konami made the PES sell in Europe based almost solely on its reputation as the ‘best and most realisitic’ simulation. And they had great growth. I remember when you couldn’t even get it on a US playstation, but presto, reputation fuelled demand and they started releasing it there. EA are being extremely short-sighted if they honestly believe that making a game that 90% of people find fun for an hour will bring more commercial success than a game that 50% of people find fun for a year. Casual gamers are going to migrate to mobile games and things like the Wii. And it will leave the real gamers with a voracious appetite for realistic and long-term enjoyable experiences.

All the chat coming out of Gary Patterson is good, reads like a dream. But if none of that is apparent in the gameplay, well something has clearly broken at EA. And we’ll once again go into a cycle where FIFA sells well, but loses the hardcore fans. And eventually the market will follow.
 
beachryan said:
All the chat coming out of Gary Patterson is good, reads like a dream. But if none of that is apparent in the gameplay, well something has clearly broken at EA. And we’ll once again go into a cycle where FIFA sells well, but loses the hardcore fans. And eventually the market will follow.
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That's both good and bad in a way, at least we know that they have the base to make it realistic, they just don't turn it up enough. So if we get sliders for all this in FIFA 12 then the offline part should be fixed, but the same problem will be there for online.

Just wish they had the balls to go on and make all those things actually show up in the gameplay and see what happens, they haven't even tried it out. Well Rutter apparently did try out a more realistic version he said and they toned it down because it was "too hard". I bet that version was much better. It might be too hard in the beginning because you're used to FIFA 10, but you'll probably learn to play the game in a different way in time, maybe a more realistic way.
 
gameklip said:
Why the hell did ronny leave man utd? Berba, Ronny and Rooney would have dominated Europe for years.

Anyways, it does look a lot like that turn doesn't it?
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C.Ronaldo is a soldier and I don't mean that in the mercenary way.He had several missions to accomplish (18th PL title and win the CL) and felt like he did his thing.
SAF managed to hold on to him for a bonus in which he helped United win the league, a latin player was never gonna stay at United forever
 
Gab_ said:
That wasn't really my point, the point is that "casual" players follows hardcore players, therefore they drop a lot of sales in time.

FIFA always sold well because it's the official game full with licenses, give those licenses to Konami and everyone would buy PES instead, it's as simple as that.

PES 5 didn't sell so amazingly well because it was a game for casual people, it was the hardcore footballers dream come true. If you "knew anything about football", that was the game to play. Whatever people hear is the best/coolest/realistic game to play from people "in the know" they follow. It's not just in games, this is applied for all products in life (firefox anyone).

I say it again, the only reason FIFA is so big now is because of us PES people that are early adopters. FIFA 08 didn't have an amazing following directly, even if that game is pretty much the same as FIFA 09 that had more people coming. That's because it was still cool to hate FIFA back then. But time move on and more and more casuals hear from people that "knows their stuff" that FIFA is actually the "cool" game now and the migration starts to happen.

I remember seeing a video about the coca cola company showing that they get this, because they were out looking for group leaders, the people that the group of friends listened to/followed. So they made sure to understand exactly what that leader type wanted from them, what was important in life style and all (because it's not as straight forward as a football game). So they single out the people that they know others will listen to and that is how they grow bigger and bigger, not because they target casuals, that should always be the indirect target.

I mean that's the whole point of inviting people like Romagnoli and other football brains. So there are certainly people at EA that seem to get this, however I do think that people higher up in the company don't get this at all and still tells them to make sure casual people is the goal (because there are more casual people duurrrrrr duurrrr).

I'll finish this long post by saying that realistic doesn't mean that the game is harder to play so that casuals can't play it. They have this idea of what people think is "fun" which is based on this myth about less depth equals more fun.
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Outstanding post. Take a bow son.
 
beachryan said:
For me the most illustrative example of why FIFA10 was such a failure as a football game was the first time I played my fiancee’s lil brother. He’s fantastic at video games, but more Modern Warfare etc, and has no interest in football whatsoever. Whereas I’m a reasonably hardcore football game fan, and know way too much about the sport. We played 3 matches, he on assisted, me on semi-assisted, and once he got the controls sorted, he beat me in all 3. I was trying to make triangles, create space, play through balls and so forth, and he was just pressuring and tearing away with sprint. And it worked.

It’s clear this isn’t by accident. Someone at EA (screw you Peter Moore!) clearly believes that accessibility is the most important thing in these games.

But that’s so clearly bullsh*t. The best selling games of the past few years have been World of Warcraft, Modern Warfare and the Guitar Hero games. Not one of those is the type of game where a newbie can take on an experienced gamer and win (on the same difficulty anyway). They take hours and hours to get good at. And buyers love em.

Konami made the PES sell in Europe based almost solely on its reputation as the ‘best and most realisitic’ simulation. And they had great growth. I remember when you couldn’t even get it on a US playstation, but presto, reputation fuelled demand and they started releasing it there. EA are being extremely short-sighted if they honestly believe that making a game that 90% of people find fun for an hour will bring more commercial success than a game that 50% of people find fun for a year. Casual gamers are going to migrate to mobile games and things like the Wii. And it will leave the real gamers with a voracious appetite for realistic and long-term enjoyable experiences.

All the chat coming out of Gary Patterson is good, reads like a dream. But if none of that is apparent in the gameplay, well something has clearly broken at EA. And we’ll once again go into a cycle where FIFA sells well, but loses the hardcore fans. And eventually the market will follow.
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Another outstanding post in my opinion.
 
The thing about Konami is, love or hate the direction they're taking (and the beta is the first next gen PES I've really got into, rather than develop a fever, have a strange metallic taste in my mouth and pull clumps of hair out of my head), at least the whole company is unified behind one vision of football - Seabass' vision - and that is geared very much toward the hardcore. EA keep hedging their bets and, even though the devs want to, they just aren't allowed to cut loose. EA say the speed is unchanged, but Adam came to the conclusion it was way faster independently of us, and not a single Guildforder thought the speed was untouched. Not saying they're BSing but something has clearly been sped up, deliberately or inadvertently when cleaning out the bugs.

We all agree and know what we want EA to do. They have the tweaking system this year; we need to instigate a mofo'ing campaign over on the official forums to get passing inaccuracy right up and game speed right down. If they haven't done so within a month or so of release then it's facepalm time.

We're all agreed on the FIFA 12 slogan, right?

FIFA 10 - how big can football get?
FIFA 11 - we are 11
FIFA 12 - fuck the casual gamer. Fuck him outside in the street in front of his relatives.
 
beachryan said:
For me the most illustrative example of why FIFA10 was such a failure as a football game was the first time I played my fiancee’s lil brother. He’s fantastic at video games, but more Modern Warfare etc, and has no interest in football whatsoever. Whereas I’m a reasonably hardcore football game fan, and know way too much about the sport. We played 3 matches, he on assisted, me on semi-assisted, and once he got the controls sorted, he beat me in all 3. I was trying to make triangles, create space, play through balls and so forth, and he was just pressuring and tearing away with sprint. And it worked.

It’s clear this isn’t by accident. Someone at EA (screw you Peter Moore!) clearly believes that accessibility is the most important thing in these games.
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Jesus:SHOCK: You can lose to a newbie also in PES and in any other sports game. Thats sport (even the virtual). I really dont understand the need of bashing FIFA again and again for such pathetic reasons. You dont need to be a football fanatic to be good at FIFA/PES.
Its not football, its a game where pushing buttons is whats matters the most.
It feels like some people who went to FIFA from PES take it as a discredit and somewhere in their head they still have their PES brain who laughed at FIFA some years ago.
Accessibility is an important thing. And yes, FIFA was, is and will be a game for masses. Thats called being a company who wants to earn money. Still the game as a whole is going towards realism.
From three years ago there is a little thing called manual controls. And thats for hardcore gamers and thats the magic of FIFA. The magic which PES had, lost it and maybe will never get back. So you cant say the game is ONLY for masses. Hardcore gamers will also find their stuff like they did in PES 5/6...
 
romagnoli said:
The thing about Konami is, love or hate the direction they're taking (and the beta is the first next gen PES I've really got into, rather than develop a fever, have a strange metallic taste in my mouth and pull clumps of hair out of my head), at least the whole company is unified behind one vision of football - Seabass' vision - and that is geared very much toward the hardcore. EA keep hedging their bets and, even though the devs want to, they just aren't allowed to cut loose. EA say the speed is unchanged, but Adam came to the conclusion it was way faster independently of us, and not a single Guildforder thought the speed was untouched. Not saying they're BSing but something has clearly been sped up, deliberately or inadvertently when cleaning out the bugs.

We all agree and know what we want EA to do. They have the tweaking system this year; we need to instigate a mofo'ing campaign over on the official forums to get passing inaccuracy right up and game speed right down. If they haven't done so within a month or so of release then it's facepalm time.

We're all agreed on the FIFA 12 slogan, right?

FIFA 10 - how big can football get?
FIFA 11 - we are 11
FIFA 12 - fuck the casual gamer. Fuck him outside in the street in front of his relatives.
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:LOL: Classic...
 
CarlitosCZE said:
Jesus:SHOCK: You can lose to a newbie also in PES and in any other sports game. Thats sport (even the virtual). I really dont understand the need of bashing FIFA again and again for such pathetic reasons. You dont need to be a football fanatic to be good at FIFA/PES.
Its not football, its a game where pushing buttons is whats matters the most.
It feels like some people who went to FIFA from PES take it as a discredit and somewhere in their head they still have their PES brain who laughed at FIFA some years ago.
Accessibility is an important thing. And yes, FIFA was, is and will be a game for masses. Thats called being a company who wants to earn money. Still the game as a whole is going towards realism.
From three years ago there is a little thing called manual controls. And thats for hardcore gamers and thats the magic of FIFA. The magic which PES had, lost it and maybe will never get back. So you cant say the game is ONLY for masses. Hardcore gamers will also find their stuff like they did in PES 5/6...
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Yep,at the end of the day it's a Console/PC game, it can be exploited like any other...
 
CarlitosCZE said:
Jesus:SHOCK: You can lose to a newbie also in PES and in any other sports game. Thats sport (even the virtual). I really dont understand the need of bashing FIFA again and again for such pathetic reasons. You dont need to be a football fanatic to be good at FIFA/PES.
Its not football, its a game where pushing buttons is whats matters the most.
It feels like some people who went to FIFA from PES take it as a discredit and somewhere in their head they still have their PES brain who laughed at FIFA some years ago.
Accessibility is an important thing. And yes, FIFA was, is and will be a game for masses. Thats called being a company who wants to earn money. Still the game as a whole is going towards realism.
From three years ago there is a little thing called manual controls. And thats for hardcore gamers and thats the magic of FIFA. The magic which PES had, lost it and maybe will never get back. So you cant say the game is ONLY for masses. Hardcore gamers will also find their stuff like they did in PES 5/6...
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Oh yeh you can see that. I think people are seemingly dissapointed at the lack of progress and saying it isn't looking very realistic because they're all in on some big joke you know.
 
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romagnoli said:
The thing about Konami is, love or hate the direction they're taking (and the beta is the first next gen PES I've really got into, rather than develop a fever, have a strange metallic taste in my mouth and pull clumps of hair out of my head), at least the whole company is unified behind one vision of football - Seabass' vision - and that is geared very much toward the hardcore. EA keep hedging their bets and, even though the devs want to, they just aren't allowed to cut loose. EA say the speed is unchanged, but Adam came to the conclusion it was way faster independently of us, and not a single Guildforder thought the speed was untouched. Not saying they're BSing but something has clearly been sped up, deliberately or inadvertently when cleaning out the bugs.

We all agree and know what we want EA to do. They have the tweaking system this year; we need to instigate a mofo'ing campaign over on the official forums to get passing inaccuracy right up and game speed right down. If they haven't done so within a month or so of release then it's facepalm time.

We're all agreed on the FIFA 12 slogan, right?

FIFA 10 - how big can football get?
FIFA 11 - we are 11
FIFA 12 - fuck the casual gamer. Fuck him outside in the street in front of his relatives.
Click to expand...

Love it! Seriously nearly best post ive ever read!

This is how i felt last night when Adam was breaking the news of the gameplay being faster and then today rutter and gary telling us its been unchanged.

Also love the slogan.
 
The point isn't that it can be exploited. It's that even if you know the game inside out and play football you can still be beaten by nothing more them dumb button bashing from someone who has never played the game.

The problem is that EA are presenting themselves as if they are making the most realistic football game when clearly they aren't focussing on that. To me it's not aproblem if they just come out and state; "We are a commercial company and we need to develop the game for the massmarket and that means making it as easy/dumb/assesseble as possible. Fine, just don't directly mislead people like Rom, and everyone else who has managed to go to these events which in turn indirectly misleads the hardcore. And remember the majority of people who invested in FIFA NG were hardcore gamers looking for the promised sim they were creating.

The same cycle as 5 years ago is starting to develop. By PES5 a lot of us were pretty pissed off with the ML and the total lack of development and started looking elsewhere. FIFA07 NG came along, and even if it did have huge faults, the potential was there. 08 came along and that also had it's fault but had at teh same time improved a lot. By 09 it was a serious game and recieved the critical acclaim. And with Konami flopping about like a fish on land FIFA was the top game. However like Konami, albiet in a different way, they seem to have stopped developing the game at the pace and vorociety(sp?) needed and look like they are trying small tweaks to keep it up without losing the market/acclaim they have got.

And it's showing, I find myself looking at the PES11 videos in the same way I was looking at the FIFA07 ones. I know there will still be quite a few things off, but I also see that it's developing in the right direction, and quite possibly has a stronger base to go from. It might not be this year (demo's will determine whether I buy only FIFA or get both) but if the trend continues a lot of us will probably playing be PES12 next year.
 
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Yesterday was such a strange day. I spent the morning downloading all the chants and entrance music from the fantastic thread on the fischal forums. Transferred it all to my ps3 and i got so excited. If it implements well having custom chants etc is going to add great atmosphere to fifa11. So i was buzzing with pre release excitement and then slowly 1 by 1 the vids from Gamescom started hitting and i felt myself gradually deflating bit by bit like a compulsive weight watcher member. Then when Adam confirmed our fears about pace etc i felt angry. Its like EA get so close. 2 steps forward but then always 1 back.
 
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