as i said you CANT turn it off/on cause there is no option....
PS: you know the german guy from pesx forums
Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3
- Thread starter jonneymendoza
- Start date
as i said you CANT turn it off/on cause there is no option....
PS: you know the german guy from pesx forums
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
There's just so much unrealism!
*Players facing their own goal doing a lightning quick 180 perfect pass.
*Messi putting in a perfect cross with his right foot (when have you ever seen him cross with right? Not much 'cause he can't).
*No buildup play!! Again, it's a 3 passes and shoot fest.
In EA's defense, they're so called major improvements to gampeplay - PP and P+ - are both something that probably needs to be experienced to tell whether it makes much of a difference. I wish it was clear as day but that's probably wishing for too much.
I think what he's talking about is that part of Pro Passing is having to gauge the power of your passes, and it is this part that is an option. The other stuff cannot be turned off, but the power gauge can be. Obviously you should be able to tell when the option is on by whether or not a power gauge is visible.
*Players facing their own goal doing a lightning quick 180 perfect pass.
*Messi putting in a perfect cross with his right foot (when have you ever seen him cross with right? Not much 'cause he can't).
*No buildup play!! Again, it's a 3 passes and shoot fest.
In EA's defense, they're so called major improvements to gampeplay - PP and P+ - are both something that probably needs to be experienced to tell whether it makes much of a difference. I wish it was clear as day but that's probably wishing for too much.
I think what he's talking about is that part of Pro Passing is having to gauge the power of your passes, and it is this part that is an option. The other stuff cannot be turned off, but the power gauge can be. Obviously you should be able to tell when the option is on by whether or not a power gauge is visible.
Mainz05
Objekt der Begierde
as i said you CANT turn it off/on cause there is no option....
PS: you know the german guy from pesx forums
Hab das t übersehen 
Mächtle?TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Liverpool
Thanks Mainz, from those tweets I would read it as there is always error in the game, however the amount of error can be toned down when you turn the powerbar (userskill componant) system off. Then what you are left with is the player stats to create error.
So usercomponant is an added error system based on the player's skill to manually determine the correct amount of power (timing system). I guess it's then a combination of assisted/semi passing but with manual power control.
Or to put it another way, in the passing control options you would have;
- Aim: assisted/semi/manual
- Powergauge: On/Off
Would explain the difference, sadly that means the 180 degree passes are still too easy to do, even if it is barca trying them.
Edit, Maxpower has already said as much.....
So usercomponant is an added error system based on the player's skill to manually determine the correct amount of power (timing system). I guess it's then a combination of assisted/semi passing but with manual power control.
Or to put it another way, in the passing control options you would have;
- Aim: assisted/semi/manual
- Powergauge: On/Off
Would explain the difference, sadly that means the 180 degree passes are still too easy to do, even if it is barca trying them.
Edit, Maxpower has already said as much.....
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Mainz05
Objekt der Begierde
Yes,thats possible...I guess,ProPassing ist always on but its optional to switch the white marker on/off?
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- Thread starter
- #3,486
jonneymendoza
Legend
- 1 January 2004
- Arsenal
And can you give me one example of an engine lasting years without needing to be completely redone?
winston
Champions League
- 7 August 2005
Having just watched all the latest FIFA2011 videos, I can honestly say there was not one single moment that got me excited in the slightest. If someone had said they were all FIFA2010 videos, I wouldn't have batted an eye.
At least PES2011 looks to have made some noticable improvements this year, albeit it's still pretty ropey and with very fake physics at times, but at least there's something to pique my interest, and hopefully the promise of attributes & stats actually meaning something.
I want to see a vid with 2 lower league teams, cpu v human, slow speed, passing assists off.
At least PES2011 looks to have made some noticable improvements this year, albeit it's still pretty ropey and with very fake physics at times, but at least there's something to pique my interest, and hopefully the promise of attributes & stats actually meaning something.
I want to see a vid with 2 lower league teams, cpu v human, slow speed, passing assists off.
Gab_
I agree
- 6 April 2009
Great logic mate. You don't know why they need a new engine, you just know it has to be done because that's how it goes?
Jonney mate you would love the official boards, try it out.
tonnyrat
League 2
- 21 March 2006
this thread on the FIFA board sums up my thoughts to a 'T'
http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/...1303692-dear-gary-patterson-david-rutter.html
http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/...1303692-dear-gary-patterson-david-rutter.html
ELTONSP
League 2
- 31 May 2010
- São Paulo FC.
i really can't see a difference between FIFA10 and FIFA11.
at least for these videos....
at least for these videos....
Some more impressions from the german guy about pro passing.
He tested the new "pro passing" and did some 180 degrees and ping pong passes with defenders by hitting the x button over and over. all passes worked perfectly..like in fifa10... you dont need control the ball....
Huge disappointment!
He tested the new "pro passing" and did some 180 degrees and ping pong passes with defenders by hitting the x button over and over. all passes worked perfectly..like in fifa10... you dont need control the ball....
Huge disappointment!
BobbyBox
WING NUT!
- 10 October 2003
- Arsenal
Some more impressions from the german guy about pro passing.
He tested the new "pro passing" and did some 180 degrees passes and ping pong passes with defenders by hitting the x button over and over. all passes worked perfectly..like in fifa10... you dont need control the ball....
Huge disappointment!
He can't be doing something right? I can't believe they would promote something so much and it fails so spectacularly?
I will wait until next week when some of the guys from here play it, then we will know for sure what is going on.
- Thread starter
- #3,494
jonneymendoza
Legend
- 1 January 2004
- Arsenal
great logic my arse. the videos are their to be seen. hardly ANY difference compared to fifa 10.
heck fifa 09 to fifa 10 was also a minor improvement. why's that i wonder. because EA got lazy or because they are running out of ways to improve the engine?
i bet its the latter and wont be surprised if that was the case. Why dont you go join the official forums mate. you will feel right at home sunny jim
Trance_Allstar
I love lamp
- 18 March 2006
Some more impressions from the german guy about pro passing.
He tested the new "pro passing" and did some 180 degrees and ping pong passes with defenders by hitting the x button over and over. all passes worked perfectly..like in fifa10... you dont need control the ball....
Huge disappointment!
If that is true, then lovely...
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
To be fair things like 180 passing can be fixed without a patch. Hopefully wrong footedness too. The animation speed can't.
Jumbo_
-
He was being sarcastic you tool.
But most of the problems could be easily sorted with some tweaking of what's already there, nothing major needs doing, it's not the engine that is at fault.
Brilliant retort jonney, just brilliant. You repeated what he said to you in a slightly different way.
DuduBR9
Champions League
- 25 July 2010
fuck if thi is going to sound like flame war, but im very disapointed and I probably wont buy it. It looks pretty much like fifa 10 to me , in wich people just need to pass quikly forward/diagonals without thinking, without need to have any notion about the risks of loosing possessio by keeping pass forward. No need to slow down a bit to watch your teamate's runs. or making lateral safe passes or even pass back. It seems that every decision needs to be fast, and still looks too easy to get on attack zone just passing foward quickly, blindly and non thikingi. Oh god, u dont know stupid these 1-2s are...Iheard the same story last year , and i honestly think they dont want to make a game towards to realism. Im tired of it. I want the fifa 08 lead producer BACK!
tonnyrat
League 2
- 21 March 2006
This same crap happened with Madden. EA had great community interaction with the sim portion of the community at Operation Sports before Madden 2010. Game comes out and it isn't anything like the early previews where a select few community members were privy to. The community members - much like the ones here - were very impressed with the direction and changes made to the game early on and touted the revolution everyone had been so desperately waiting for.
The game comes out and it feels and looks like Madden 2009 with some new polish and the same lingering bugs in movement, catching, tackling, etc. that has plagued the series for years. The devs didn't appreciate the reaction and retreated back to the EA forums where the retards roam. Madden 2011 is released without much input from the sim community and goes back to its roots of gimmick offerings like a revamped version of their old auto-playcalling system as a new feature. It plays like a slightly better version of Madden 2010 because of new animations but other pieces of tech used that were introduced when the sim community was involved - mainly the tackling innovations (*cough* like I expect to happen with P+ and PP *cough*) - remained untouched and unoptimized. It's OK though, the Madden devs have promised a completely new and in-depth career mode for Madden 2012! ....
PP and P+ are useless if they don't make a difference and it certainly doesn't look like it does on these videos. Considering the only thing that can be turned off is over/under hitting a pass (the User Skill part of Rutter's comments), doesn't it worry you guys that there is no error at all in these videos when Rutter has specifically stated that portion of the new PP mechanic is always ON during games?
It's as if the execs at EA fear for Fifa and order the devs to dumb the game down late in the dev cycle so ADHD 12 yr olds can go out and buy copies of the game. I hope I get proven wrong because this shit happens every single year on these major franchises. Always play it too safe... Look at GT5, that is a game where the devs know what their customers want and they will give you exactly what you want.
The game comes out and it feels and looks like Madden 2009 with some new polish and the same lingering bugs in movement, catching, tackling, etc. that has plagued the series for years. The devs didn't appreciate the reaction and retreated back to the EA forums where the retards roam. Madden 2011 is released without much input from the sim community and goes back to its roots of gimmick offerings like a revamped version of their old auto-playcalling system as a new feature. It plays like a slightly better version of Madden 2010 because of new animations but other pieces of tech used that were introduced when the sim community was involved - mainly the tackling innovations (*cough* like I expect to happen with P+ and PP *cough*) - remained untouched and unoptimized. It's OK though, the Madden devs have promised a completely new and in-depth career mode for Madden 2012! ....
PP and P+ are useless if they don't make a difference and it certainly doesn't look like it does on these videos. Considering the only thing that can be turned off is over/under hitting a pass (the User Skill part of Rutter's comments), doesn't it worry you guys that there is no error at all in these videos when Rutter has specifically stated that portion of the new PP mechanic is always ON during games?
It's as if the execs at EA fear for Fifa and order the devs to dumb the game down late in the dev cycle so ADHD 12 yr olds can go out and buy copies of the game. I hope I get proven wrong because this shit happens every single year on these major franchises. Always play it too safe... Look at GT5, that is a game where the devs know what their customers want and they will give you exactly what you want.
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BobbyBox
WING NUT!
- 10 October 2003
- Arsenal
The guys from here that are going to the emirates etc will test everything out. So I wont go mental until I hear their opinions 
If they come back from there all negative then I will be upset.
If they come back from there all negative then I will be upset.
WILDSTER180774
Championship
Rom, have you had any feedback at all about todays revelations?
Trance_Allstar
I love lamp
- 18 March 2006
It's not the engine, PES5 has more realistic base movements speeds and animation speeds for passing, 180 degree passes etc. They just need to seriously work on the proportions, right now it looks like someone handled 50% of the animations and someone else handled the other 50%, and neither looked at the other ones work. You can have a good and natural pass animation one time, and the next your player does something that doesn't seem based in any earthly physics. They need to equalize all the animations in an even fashion, preferably also while actually watching and directly comparing situations in FIFA with the exact same situations in real matches, so that they can mimic reality as closely as possible.
I don't have the technical capabilities, but I wish someone would line up a real match between real madrid and barcelona with a match from say Fifa 10, and then press play when both matches kick off.
My guess would be that FIFA10 would constantly look to speed ahead about 20-25% faster, even on the slow setting. And if you pingpong passed, the difference between the game and reality would be about the size of the grand canyon. FIFA10 would be a caricature of the real thing. Sadly they don't seem to these types of direct comparison with real life, and the result is what we get.
Just look at PES2011 and when they showed images that directly compared a real match at kickoff with the game at kickoff, and how they directly imitated camera angles, lighting conditions etc from the real life example.
Obviously for animation it will be alot harder, but considering the amount of mocap they have, I am surprised of the level of manipulation and tweaking they need to do in the computers to get the animations from real humans to look like they do in game (that is, too fast, floaty running, etc).
I don't have the technical capabilities, but I wish someone would line up a real match between real madrid and barcelona with a match from say Fifa 10, and then press play when both matches kick off.
My guess would be that FIFA10 would constantly look to speed ahead about 20-25% faster, even on the slow setting. And if you pingpong passed, the difference between the game and reality would be about the size of the grand canyon. FIFA10 would be a caricature of the real thing. Sadly they don't seem to these types of direct comparison with real life, and the result is what we get.
Just look at PES2011 and when they showed images that directly compared a real match at kickoff with the game at kickoff, and how they directly imitated camera angles, lighting conditions etc from the real life example.
Obviously for animation it will be alot harder, but considering the amount of mocap they have, I am surprised of the level of manipulation and tweaking they need to do in the computers to get the animations from real humans to look like they do in game (that is, too fast, floaty running, etc).
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DuduBR9
Champions League
- 25 July 2010
ok, im watching the video now and i really tink passing was a bit improved (definetly not like i was expecting) as well ai anticipation. But I still have the feeling that everything needs to be fast, players move up to attack fast and kind of easy. Trapping looks fast for every player ,with quick and perfect first touchs on the tball o control it. very disapoiting.
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mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
Absolutely right.
And about your last point on videos - how great would it be if EA released about a dozen "official" gameplay videos feature various situations and settings. H2H games with assisted and manual settings; 1vCPU with the various settings; gameplay at different speed settings; etc.
They know gameplay footage gets posted all over the web, so why not control the process? I'd imagine it would also limit complaints based on wrong info.
liger05
Championship
The guys from here that are going to the emirates etc will test everything out. So I wont go mental until I hear their opinions
If they come back from there all negative then I will be upset.
Thats make or break for me. If the news is not so positive then Fifa 11 wont be a purchase for me.
WILDSTER180774
Championship
Posted by Tech_skill in the fishal forums, this sums up how i feel after todays negative findings.
After seeing today's videos I have to say I am shocked by just how much EA appears to have dropped the ball this year. Now obviously you cannot judge the entire game on video clips, however what the videos do appear to show is a number of issues in the game that fans have repeatedly asked you to correct since fifa 09 at least, fans have even suggested a way to implement these corrections, and yet this appear to have fallen on deaf ears. Here are just a few things I and others noted.
High Pressure: Something that people have been complaining about forever, in this videos, games were being reduced to pressure orgies with players indulging in a never ending cycle of running around and get knocked off the ball, getting the ball back, getting knocked off the ball again, repeat. Especially in the centre of midfield. This is one of the major reasons people feel the need to ping pong, the player doesnt have enough time to consider other passing options before his player is bulldozed off the ball by another player. Even in the earlier fifa 11 videos, I saw David Silva chasing the ball across the back 4 and pressuring defenders (with what looked to be no serious damage to stamina), I thought as part of personality plus, only certain players like Rooney etc would pressure the ball in those kind of situations. I thought the cleverer players like xavi and iniesta could use their greater control of the football to evade pressure from opposing players, I see no evidence of that in these vids.
Individuality: I saw messi doing a near perfect cross with his right foot, also, in the videos i saw that players were still not able to go past another player without using tricks, which again if this is the case, completely defeats the object of player individuality seeing as I thought we were told players like messi would have a sharper turning circle which would allow them to nip past defenders? In the videos I saw, everytime messi or iniesta or a skill player got anywhere near a defender or DM, the defender/DM was simply able to knock them off the ball or do a perfectly timed tackle everytime. I thought each player had indvidual attributes which affected how accurate their tackling was so that some players would be able to make tackles and interceptions tht others wouldn't, I cant see that in these vids.
The passing looked like the usual ping pong where pretty much all the players could do laser guided passes but i am aware some of the journos may have turned off pro passing so the jury is out on that one.
Defensive Lines: Defensive lines were still way too high, this also contributes to why fifa games are one big counter attack session with tons of one on ones. Just looking at the radar on one vid I could see at one point the back 4 of Barca were literally on the half way line, fans have been asking for this to be corrected for years.
Defensive AI: Looks poor, I saw idle defenders standing around playing opposing strikers on side, I saw defenders moving away from the attacking player to allow him a clearer run on goal... just before the human took control of the defender and tried to move him back into a suitable position. This is something that has been mentioned time and again.
Have the bugs really been sorted?: The bug with pique going down hurt and then the GUI showing the player name as David Silva isnt a big deal right now, but if you guys cant get that right on a build which david rutter said was going to be the one used on the demo (ive seen quotes from rutter's twitter on another forum) then what other bugs are in the game at present, it doesnt give people confidence, espeically seeing a fifa 10 had a TON of bugs that were never corrected.
The bottom line is, the major thing I and may others were looking forward to this year was a Fifa game in which the players and teams felt and looked different, after the personality + video demonstration we expected to see different players be very varied in their passing accuracy, movement, ability to go past players, and many other things, these things are not apparent at all in any vid I have seen today, the game looks like a polished fifa 10 with many of the issues people spent ages complaining about still present in the game. The worry is this is going to be another fifa game which has little depth and becomes a game where the players, teams and tactics all become repeatative.
I think you should urgently reconsider how you accept feedback from the community and be honest about exactly what can and cannot be corrected at this time as I think its very clear that what has been seen today doesnt demonstrate the so called massive changes that have been made to this game and that justify why people should spend more hard earned money on it.
After seeing today's videos I have to say I am shocked by just how much EA appears to have dropped the ball this year. Now obviously you cannot judge the entire game on video clips, however what the videos do appear to show is a number of issues in the game that fans have repeatedly asked you to correct since fifa 09 at least, fans have even suggested a way to implement these corrections, and yet this appear to have fallen on deaf ears. Here are just a few things I and others noted.
High Pressure: Something that people have been complaining about forever, in this videos, games were being reduced to pressure orgies with players indulging in a never ending cycle of running around and get knocked off the ball, getting the ball back, getting knocked off the ball again, repeat. Especially in the centre of midfield. This is one of the major reasons people feel the need to ping pong, the player doesnt have enough time to consider other passing options before his player is bulldozed off the ball by another player. Even in the earlier fifa 11 videos, I saw David Silva chasing the ball across the back 4 and pressuring defenders (with what looked to be no serious damage to stamina), I thought as part of personality plus, only certain players like Rooney etc would pressure the ball in those kind of situations. I thought the cleverer players like xavi and iniesta could use their greater control of the football to evade pressure from opposing players, I see no evidence of that in these vids.
Individuality: I saw messi doing a near perfect cross with his right foot, also, in the videos i saw that players were still not able to go past another player without using tricks, which again if this is the case, completely defeats the object of player individuality seeing as I thought we were told players like messi would have a sharper turning circle which would allow them to nip past defenders? In the videos I saw, everytime messi or iniesta or a skill player got anywhere near a defender or DM, the defender/DM was simply able to knock them off the ball or do a perfectly timed tackle everytime. I thought each player had indvidual attributes which affected how accurate their tackling was so that some players would be able to make tackles and interceptions tht others wouldn't, I cant see that in these vids.
The passing looked like the usual ping pong where pretty much all the players could do laser guided passes but i am aware some of the journos may have turned off pro passing so the jury is out on that one.
Defensive Lines: Defensive lines were still way too high, this also contributes to why fifa games are one big counter attack session with tons of one on ones. Just looking at the radar on one vid I could see at one point the back 4 of Barca were literally on the half way line, fans have been asking for this to be corrected for years.
Defensive AI: Looks poor, I saw idle defenders standing around playing opposing strikers on side, I saw defenders moving away from the attacking player to allow him a clearer run on goal... just before the human took control of the defender and tried to move him back into a suitable position. This is something that has been mentioned time and again.
Have the bugs really been sorted?: The bug with pique going down hurt and then the GUI showing the player name as David Silva isnt a big deal right now, but if you guys cant get that right on a build which david rutter said was going to be the one used on the demo (ive seen quotes from rutter's twitter on another forum) then what other bugs are in the game at present, it doesnt give people confidence, espeically seeing a fifa 10 had a TON of bugs that were never corrected.
The bottom line is, the major thing I and may others were looking forward to this year was a Fifa game in which the players and teams felt and looked different, after the personality + video demonstration we expected to see different players be very varied in their passing accuracy, movement, ability to go past players, and many other things, these things are not apparent at all in any vid I have seen today, the game looks like a polished fifa 10 with many of the issues people spent ages complaining about still present in the game. The worry is this is going to be another fifa game which has little depth and becomes a game where the players, teams and tactics all become repeatative.
I think you should urgently reconsider how you accept feedback from the community and be honest about exactly what can and cannot be corrected at this time as I think its very clear that what has been seen today doesnt demonstrate the so called massive changes that have been made to this game and that justify why people should spend more hard earned money on it.
StuartCulli
College Dropout
- 25 July 2006
- Newcastle United
It's not the engine, PES5 has more realistic base movements speeds and animation speeds for passing, 180 degree passes etc. They just need to seriously work on the proportions, right now it looks like someone handled 50% of the animations and someone else handled the other 50%, and neither looked at the other ones work. You can have a good and natural pass animation one time, and the next your player does something that doesn't seem based in any earthly physics. They need to equalize all the animations in an even fashion, preferably also while actually watching and directly comparing situations in FIFA with the exact same situations in real matches, so that they can mimic reality as closely as possible.
I don't have the technical capabilities, but I wish someone would line up a real match between real madrid and barcelona with a match from say Fifa 10, and then press play when both matches kick off.
My guess would be that FIFA10 would constantly look to speed ahead about 20-25% faster, even on the slow setting. And if you pingpong passed, the difference between the game and reality would be about the size of the grand canyon. FIFA10 would be a caricature of the real thing. Sadly they don't seem to these types of direct comparison with real life, and the result is what we get.
Just look at PES2011 and when they showed images that directly compared a real match at kickoff with the game at kickoff, and how they directly imitated camera angles, lighting conditions etc from the real life example.
Obviously for animation it will be alot harder, but considering the amount of mocap they have, I am surprised of the level of manipulation and tweaking they need to do in the computers to get the animations from real humans to look like they do in game (that is, too fast, floaty running, etc).
Exactly. EA don't get football. They just see the big finish to it all.
There's no point playing defensively or conservatively in Fifa.
I'm not looking forward to Fifa 11.
Gab_
I agree
- 6 April 2009
Let's head over to the PES thread *holding hands skipping down the street*
