FIFA 11 Career Mode Thread PS3/360

[mfmaxpower]

Were are in touch with him on the GC forum, he's asked us for ideas and input so it's good to know he's open to new ideas, we have naturally bombarded the poor sod...

That's great to hear. If nothing else he did a fantastic job keeping in touch with the community during the WC game's development, while I actually think gameplay wise that game is overall still probably the best to date.

I have to say, though, I'm getting a little resentful of these GC forums. Basically you few get access to the devs and intelligent, constructive, and mature discussion (I assume) while the rest of us are stuck with the chaotic official forums and all too infrequent and curt dev updates. Sorry but, wtf?

 

[PLF]

When's the patch out for x360? And can I get it if I don't have xbox live?

 

[Nick Cave]

Well bum him into submission until we get what we want.

That's great to hear. If nothing else he did a fantastic job keeping in touch with the community during the WC game's development, while I actually think gameplay wise that game is overall still probably the best to date.

I have to say, though, I'm getting a little resentful of these GC forums. Basically you few get access to the devs and intelligent, constructive, and mature discussion (I assume) while the rest of us are stuck with the chaotic official forums and all too infrequent and curt dev updates. Sorry but, wtf?

It's not as good as it sounds and we do have to put some effort in, I don't see the point of being a GC if you are not going to liaise with and take on-board other forum members points and issues.
I know I have my bias towards CM but I am pushing to improve other areas and even things I hardly ever play in the game...

 

[Placebo]

When's the patch out for x360? And can I get it if I don't have xbox live?

It was released already on Friday, yes you can download it and install it via USB flashdrive.

Edit: Although none of the sites I know which host title updates have it yet, you can try requesting it at one of these:

http://www.se7ensins.com/forums/topic/116376-title-updates-offline/
http://www.xpgamesaves.com/forum/142-xbox-360-title-updates/
http://digiex.net/downloads/download-center-2-0/xbox-360-content/title-updates/
http://www.elitemodscene.com/gamedb/

 

[mfmaxpower]

Don't get excited over the patch though.

* Growth still appears broken, even beyond simply having been conceived poorly, like players declining in OVR because they aren't getting enough playing time (that's form related, not OVRs!!).

* I received the email "Worth a try?" saying my LB has a lot of potential and I should give him more playing time. He has started almost every match for me.

* I received the same email for my best CB who is in the starting eleven. I've noticed both times I received the email following a game each player was rested for, so clearly it's a bug where my idiot of an assistant coach only takes into account the one match and not my player's contribution throughout the season. Raises further doubt as to what is working properly and what isn't, not helped by the system being so opaque.

* I received an email saying a player was making good progress. He's one of my oldest players and in the player growth screen "nothing to report" is next to his name. Considering I have other players that are younger, said to have "high potential," are playing as much and just as well, but NOT growing, this is extremely confusing, really poor, and I can only imagine not working correctly.

* Out of 8 players put up for either sale or loan only 1 player was bought. Awesome.

* One of the players I could not sell - a teenager no less - has dropped a point in OVR because he's not playing enough. So not only could I not sell him but I have to play him regularly or else his OVR decreases. Awesome.

Other things:

* I'm almost through November and every match so far in my season has been at night. Every one.

* Micro pauses? I never encountered prior to patch but during matches sometimes the game slows a moment or two, almost like it's "skipping frames" or something. Not sure what it is but had never seen it until the recent patch.

(Edit: I should've mentioned, this is a brand new CM I started after the patch, using ESTAC in Ligue 2.)

 

[mfmaxpower]

CAREER MODE
There are a lot of improvements you’ll notice here, which will all further boost the realism of the mode, but in summary: Your match fixtures during the season for cups and leagues, as well as the time of day they all happen, should now be much more realistic. We’ve also improved how accurately player ratings and growth are displayed, as well as making sure the players get the awards they deserve, when they deserve them. Using an odd exploit to secure a whopping $2 billion budget has now gone away, while the emails you receive as a manager will be more appropriate and players you’ve loaned out will now be easier to see and manage.

There are a lot of improvements you’ll notice here, which will all further boost the realism of the mode

Any idea what these are? I haven't noticed any.

Your match fixtures during the season for cups and leagues, as well as the time of day they all happen, should now be much more realistic

Midway through my first season of a new career and EVERY match has been at night (I know I can change this pre-match).

We’ve also improved how accurately player ratings and growth are displayed, as well as making sure the players get the awards they deserve, when they deserve them.

Player growth is still a mess (see above post). Not sure what awards are being referred to.

Using an odd exploit to secure a whopping $2 billion budget has now gone away, while the emails you receive as a manager will be more appropriate and players you’ve loaned out will now be easier to see and manage.

EA spent time removing an exploit that has no bearing on the game mode unless used by the player. Yippee. Essentially it was an option people could use to improve the game for them. What's next, they remove the option to assign player growth manually? Oh wait...

Emails will be more appropriate - what the hell does that even mean? If we're talking about player growth, then no I'm still receiving stupid emails. That, however, may be less an issue of things working properly and more to do with just being a poorly conceived system.

Loaned players easier to see and manage? I put 8 players up for either sale or loan and only 1 garnered any interest. In all 4 of my CM careers I have yet to be able to loan a single player.

Granted this all has to do with CM but so far my appraisal of this "patch" is the same as the game and EA in general - it's a joke.

 

[mfmaxpower]

At the end of my first season of a new CM with ESTAC in France Ligue 2. Finished 9th in the table, fulfilling my board expectations. (I still have one game left so who knows if a surprise awaits but I wanted to type this while I had access to the player growth screen.)

Player growth appears no different. Six players grew for me; four players decreased. My LWB increased by 3, my ST by 2, the other four - all defensive players (of course) - grew by 1. The four players that decreased are all young and decreased by 1, simply because they didn't get enough playing time.

*My LWB that grew by +3: he is 28 and my assistant coach assessment is "nothing to report."

*My other players to grow are all between 21 and 24.

*The four players with -1 "growth" are ages 20, 21, 22, and 24.

*I have seven players that are listed as "high potential, give him playing time" that did not grow at all. All seven saw varying amounts of playing time.

*Of the four players that are -1, three players are listed "high potential."

*Of the four that are -1, only one player was not part of my rotation, granted they started infrequently, especially in the beginning when I didn't realize growth still operated this way.

Basically here's my assumption: player growth isn't broke in that it's working as intended; player growth is broken in that the way it was intended to work is absolutely retarded. There is absolutely no point in having a large squad because you will never be able to avoid having players decrease in OVR (and value!!) without constantly rotating your squad in such a way that is unrealistic.

Probably the best strategy is to maintain the smallest squad possible while adding depth through loans - this way if you use your loans as your backups then you lose nothing in the end by them decreasing in OVRs.

One positive of this is it forces you to rotate your squad if you want to maintain their OVR much less hope for growth. It kind of does the job injuries and form should be doing. It's a horrible system if it's really working as intended and I'm shocked that professionals conceived CM to operate this way.

Another positive I noticed is that my players had suspension due to accumulated yellow cards. I don't recall this happening prior to the patch.

Overall I'm debating whether to continue with CM or just mess around with UT. At this rate I'll be surprised if PES isn't my only football game in the near future. There's just not enough in FIFA this year to keep me interested even if in the end I still might prefer FIFA's gameplay to PES.

God damn you EA.

 

[Blublub]

Sorry, but this patch is an utter disgrace. Not a single gameplay tweak that I can tell. Big broken stuff in CM is still broken (match times, etc.) despite what the release notes say. Considering they only have a couple bites at the console apple to fix these things, it's looking pretty gloomy for rescuing any manner of single player game here.

 

[mfmaxpower]

Finished my first season of a new career started post patch. My board expectations were to finish in top half of league, I finished 11th.

The board congratulated me on fulfilling its expectations and I was told my reputation had increased for doing so.

Nice job on that patch EA.

Also, a player I loaned for a short loan during the winter transfer period left at the end of his three month contract. I was never sent an email and I don't recall seeing a news story. One day I just went to go add him to my bench and he wasn't there anymore. I'm assuming this isn't the case of my loaned player disappearing but instead EA not thinking it might be worthwhile to inform us of this. Any ideas as to whether this is a bug or not?



***

On a more positive note, I struggled to score during the first half of the season while conceded few goals so at the winter transfer window I unloaded many of my defenders to afford upgrades at offensive position.

What's interesting is that at midseason I was 9th in the table with a +1 goal differential. At the end of the season I finished 11th with a minus -3 goal differential.

It's nice to see that there were repercussions over the long haul for my poor managerial decisions, as I got rid of my top keeper and top RB. The second half of the season played out very similar to the first half - a drudgery to be honest, with goals a scarce commodity - but it's nice to think my decisions to sacrifice defense actually did make a difference.

In a CM with little character or features, it's nice to see something matter.

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Does the player growth actually work? I mean, do you notice players develop when controlling them? If not the menu's could just be fluff and you are getting worked up about something that isn't even "there". I won't be finding out, as I can't be bothered to play anymore. EA have really developed this game; from 9 months of play on 09 - to - 2 months of play on 10 - to - 2 weeks of play on 11.

 

[Placebo]

Another positive I noticed is that my players had suspension due to accumulated yellow cards. I don't recall this happening prior to the patch.

That was there and working pre-patch as I mentioned it in here, it's wrong of course because 10 yellows should be a 2 match ban and in Fifa11 it's the usual 1 match ban same as all reds (in 10 a red card could mean up to a 3 match ban).

 

[PLF]

Lol maybe I won't even bother with the patch then.

Doesn't really seem to have fixed anything except the fixture problem and on top of that, has caused some other problems for some people it seems.

---------------------------

In regards to Job offers at end of season, I find this really disappointing! Anybody ever had more than ONE job offer at end of season? And anybody had anything outside current country?

I finished 2nd season with Anzhi Makhachkala and I think I've taken them as far as I could breaking into top half of table but not being to compete with the big 6 who our budget is only a fraction of.

I was looking forward to moving out of Russia and experiencing a new league/country but am disappointed to once again see there's only one offer and only from another Russian club. Now this time at least unlike last due to my higher reputation, it's Rubin Kazan who've offered me the job having disappointed in first 2 seasons and not mounted a challenge.

They want me to finish in top 2 which is a tough task with likes of Sparktas Moscow and Zenit in particular but I've accepted as it's a new job, much better players, more money and I can get them back in CL and on top of Russian football. Nonetheless it's disappointing to only see 1 offer and from another Russian club, would've been nice to see several offers (and that's what I expected but then again EA fuck everything up! Can't get anyting simple right!) and some from abroad so it brings up the question for me, has anyone?

 

[mfmaxpower]

I've always received multiple offers though none from different leagues. Granted I haven't reached as far as completing two seasons in the same career so i probably didn't have the success or reputation to deserve interest from outside my own league.

I'm now a quarter through my second season at ESTAC in Ligue 2 but I think I'm going to start a new ML in PES as FIFA and CM just don't have the variety and depth to hold my interest. FIFA has never been known for its depth in gameplay so I've always relied on the gamemodes to keep me playing. Maybe I'll switch over to single player UT for a bit - I do enjoy constantly being able to mix and match players, trying out unheard of players, scouting for talent in the case CM draws me back in again.

 

[PLF]

You've received multiple offers at end of season?

I've only ever had 1 other club offer me the job and of course I could keep my current one having met objectives.

 

[mfmaxpower]

At the end of my most recent season in France's Ligue 2 I received offers from two other Ligue 2 clubs in addition to my own. I'm pretty sure I received the same number of offers previously as well.

 

[PLF]

I see. Good to know. Though of course it sucks that only teams in your own league seem to offer you a job.

p.s. Just noticed it turns out there IS actually an "Avoid Relegation" objective. Try choosing "Dagenham" in Npower League 1 (3rd division in England). Never seen that before!

 

[BobbyBox]

Been doing a VP career for 3 seasons but I am pretty convinced there is a bug when the computer rests me?

It always seems to rest me on important cup games. I was rested for both legs of a semi final champions league match against Real Madrid (which we lost). I played one or two games in between and was then rested. I was then also left out for the semi finals of the FA cup and the final!

It has happened in my previous two seasons aswell. Usually get rested for cup games (especially later stages) and my team usually loses! it is so frustrating!!

anybody else had this?

 

[mfmaxpower]

I see. Good to know. Though of course it sucks that only teams in your own league seem to offer you a job.

p.s. Just noticed it turns out there IS actually an "Avoid Relegation" objective. Try choosing "Dagenham" in Npower League 1 (3rd division in England). Never seen that before!

True although we are left to wonder - as with much of CM! - whether this is intentional or a bug?

I could imagine this being how it was intended for realisms sake, after all I had no right really to earn attention from other leagues when i finished bottom half of France's second division.

From this to the way player growth seems to be intended to work their are indications to me that EA have gone a little too far with trying to inject realism throughout the mode. I could totally be wrong and maybe these are all the result of incompetence and poorly conceived features.

When it comes to gameplay i will always be for adding more realism but when it comes to the game modes the balance probably needs to lean more toward fantasy to be fun. At the least it's just another example for why sliders and options should be a priority for next year so people can play the type of CM they want.

 

[nerf]

From this to the way player growth seems to be intended to work their are indications to me that EA have gone a little too far with trying to inject realism throughout the mode. I could totally be wrong and maybe these are all the result of incompetence and poorly conceived features.

My guess is that they went with their first iteration. Someone drew up an initial spec of how it might work, it was coded, and that first stab was put in a box and shipped without being re-visited for some balancing love.

Game dev is an iterative process, or should be. Nothing gets done spot-on at the first attempt, it has to be tried and then balanced. So much of what is in FIFA gives the feeling of 'well it works, we don't have time just now to polish it', and then that deadline races around.

 

[mfmaxpower]

My guess is that they went with their first iteration. Someone drew up an initial spec of how it might work, it was coded, and that first stab was put in a box and shipped without being re-visited for some balancing love.

Game dev is an iterative process, or should be. Nothing gets done spot-on at the first attempt, it has to be tried and then balanced. So much of what is in FIFA gives the feeling of 'well it works, we don't have time just now to polish it', and then that deadline races around.

I would love to know exactly how many people are working on different aspects of the game as FIFA screams of a lack of manpower accross the board. Seems like too much a coincidence that quality issues increased as the economy tanked; massive layoffs occurred in recent years at EA while bugs and issues have increased.

 

[daikirai]

I've gotten offers outside my league, but that season I won the league and league cup, and went far into the europa leage. And the offers were from teams trying to stay in the middle of the second division.

 

[mfmaxpower]

This isn't just frustrating, it's infuriating: I'm barely into October in my second season of a post-patch CM and my first player (this season) has gone down in OVR by -1. He's one of my top subs, only 24, has performed very well with solid ratings (as all CDMs tend to in FIFA) and he's about middle of the pack for appearances.

I have had four players go up by 1 but what the hell am I suppose to do if i cant keep one of my top subs, and sometimes starter, from dropping in rating, much less my reserve players? I have more than a dozen reserve players with many not having played a single minute this season - why the fuck can't they be the ones to drop? I brought in some loan players specifically to fill out my reserves rather than buy players I'd rarely use and have them go down in ovrs and value. WTF?

Surely the system is broken right? Nick, any clue whether this has been acknowledged at EA? And if it's broken, why the hell didn't they fix it in the patch? It's only the most important - pretty much the only - feature in the entire mode besides transfers after all!

Seriously EA, are you trying to lose customers?

 

[mfmaxpower]

A post from the official forums with pretty solid evidence that growth is without a doubt broken:

Let me illustrate the poor state of realism present in Career Mode

In my 6th season of Career Mode:

Search: Age 17-21, Ratings 80-100, Results 0
Search: Age 17-25, Ratings 80-100, Results 18 http://img403.imageshack.us/i/dsc00248lb.jpg/
Search: Age 40-50, Ratings 75-100, Results 50+ http://img713.imageshack.us/i/dsc00249u.jpg/

+ a bonus pic of oldest players in the game http://img152.imageshack.us/i/dsc00250w.jpg/

In my 1st season of Career Mode:

Search: Age 17-21, Ratings 80-100, Results 11 http://img38.imageshack.us/i/dsc00254ge.jpg/
Search: Age 17-25, Ratings 80-100, Results 50+ http://img153.imageshack.us/i/dsc00252lc.jpg/
Search: Age 40-50, Ratings 75-100, Results 1 http://img502.imageshack.us/i/dsc00255.jpg/

You see? In my 6th season i have no young superstars like in todays world of football, also there is only 18 players up to the age of 25 who are rated higher than 80, i wasnt able to find out how many there are at the start of the game, but its 50+.

Also, when we start our virtual careers, players do not seem to retire! WOW! How realistic is that! Bunch of 40+ year olds. REALISM presented to you by EA!

But hey, you can go on and defend your buddies at EA because "they are making an effort for the right direction". Im sorry, but if 08 had a better Career Mode than 10 or 11 then i dont see this as a progress.

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Ouch.

 

[mfmaxpower]

Really sucks too because I had been playing PES but wanted to play some FIFA, I was enjoying the three matches I played but then that -1 growth occurred to one of my most promising young players and it totally deflated the experience. I stopped playing after that and I think I might just stick to messing around in UT if i continue to bother with FIFA.

 

[mfmaxpower]

For those who may have missed it, posted in the EA forums in the main patch thread by EA Rom:

I've been off getting some more in-depth details about the player growth system, for your information. The dev team have explained it for me in terms my simple head can fathom, so... in a nutshell:

Players grow based on their playing time, their performance and their age.
Players gain experience based on playing time, match importance, quality of opponent, and match performance (Match Rating). They lose experience while they are injured.
Players grow in three categories – Physical attributes, Mental Attributes and Skill Attributes. All three attribute categories grow and peak at different times based on age. As the individual attribute groups peak at different times, the overall sometimes doesn’t tell the whole story.
Physical attributes peak between 25 and 29 years, with accelerated growth between 20 and 24 years.

Mental attributes peak between 30 and 38 years. There’s slow but steady growth starting at 22 years and lasting until 35.

Skill attributes peak between 25 and 30 years, with accelerated growth between 17 and 22 years.
When players play matches they gain experience. Only once they gain enough experience do they grow. When they reach a growth point, we compare their overall and their three attribute categories to their potential and their age. Based on that we determine how much they grow on a base level. At the same time we look at the player’s performance and add / remove some growth based on that.

So, given all that going on, this what we’re seeing in the game:
Players get the closest to realising their full potential between 25 and 28 years

That’s also when they grow the most

Players also grow in the off-season, which is not tracked by the Player Growth screen.
And, knowing that, here’s some tips for you from the dev guys:
Play the players you think are talented.

Be aware that simming over multiple games might result in the AI Team Management taking your young and talented players off and replacing them with what they deem “better” players.
Keep a close eye on your players’ attributes, not just their overall. (One thing we’ve taken on board from your feedback is that this stuff could be more transparent – we’ll work on that for the future).

Mark your players' birthdays on your calendar as the growth point they hit afterwards might give them another growth boost.

 

[mfmaxpower]

This is my response, which i both PM'd him and posted in that thread. Basically, it sounds great but the experiences of myself and others indicates that the results of the player growth system are not consistent with that description. In particular, he doesn't mention why players should be dropping in OVR when they're young players!

Rom, thanks for the detailed explanation of how player growth is suppose to work. Unfortunately the reality of how the growth system is working appears quite different, and it's extremely disappointing that no one at EA including yourself bothers to acknowledge the issues - despite the massive number of posts devoted to this problem, many of which include detailed information of our own experiences that act as irrefutable evidence that the logic behind the growth system is not working as it should.

For example, in your explanation you wrote the following:

Players grow based on their playing time, their performance and their age.

And also:

Players get the closest to realising their full potential between 25 and 28 years

That’s also when they grow the most

That makes sense and is a solid basic model for growth. If only our experiences matched that model, consistently.

In my most recent CM for example, after 1.5 seasons the two players that have grown the most for me have both been 28 years of age (both are +3). Is it not curious that the players that have grown the most for me are both at the end of their peaks?

Having two 28 year olds grow 3 points would not be so strange if other players were developing at similar rates, and yet nothing could be further from the truth! Not only do I have a young squad but many are listed as having "high potential" and have performed relatively well for me. And yet - and yet! - of these "high potential" youngsters less than half a dozen have grown at all in 1.5 seasons but just as many have gone down in OVR!!

In fact, in my most recent match one of my top substitutes, and sometimes starter, dropped -1 in OVR! Not only does it make absolutely no sense for players to be decreasing in OVR for any other reason than old age (Form - one of the many features you guys have removed - is NOT related to player growth, or at least shouldn't be.), but it also makes absolutely no sense when one player - who has seen match time, is listed as "high potential," and is only 23 - goes down in OVR, while other players who have yet to see the pitch remain unchanged.

I have now played a total of approximately six seasons in CM, on both the 360 and PS3, both pre and post patch, and I can report with 100 percent certainty that player growth is not functioning properly - instead player growth appears somewhat random, inconsistent, and rarely reflects what could be expected based on what we read on the player growth screen or what we see from playing matches.

It is clear a problem exists. Considering the popularity of this topic since release, and considering the massive popularity of this game mode, it's a fair assumption that at the moment you have a large number of unhappy customers. It would be appreciated if not only EA acted accordingly, but it would be nice if you guys at least acknowledged the issue to us, and at least tried to give the impression that you care and are looking into a fix.

Last year MM was not fixed and we were stuck with the 2 billion dollar debt bug among others. CM and its small number of features was sold to us as being a necessary start over to avoid working with the old bug-filled code. You appear an intelligent person, and I think you can see that it is not only the moral thing to do but the right business decision to adequately address the community's concerns.

 

[PLF]

Well said.

Nice post.

 

[nerf]

"One thing we’ve taken on board from your feedback is that this stuff could be more transparent – we’ll work on that for the future."

No sh*t, Sherlock. Maybe one day they'll wake up to how much of their game is constantly hamstrung by crappy 'after-thought' UI. All of their MM/CM incarnations have suffered from insufficient feedback, even when stuff is working properly.

 

[Placebo]

More transparent? Fuck that I want more working not broken, bullshit excuse.

I also replied:

Players grow based on their playing time, their performance and their age.

No surprise the system is so horrendously flawed then considering the match rating system is completely flawed as it has been for years, I've seen players score a hat-trick and get 7, score and get 2 assists and get 6, nonsense.