FIFA 10

Dusse said:
But is the MM-guy really responsible for the underdog AI etc? Sure, he should have noticed when playing the game, but surely it's the AI guys that should know about this and not him.

Oh and Rad, I'm sure he's very sorry that he wasn't born in a english speaking country and made two spelling misstakes when writing in a forum. He should be fired right away!
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:OOOH:
 
Nick Cave said:
You answered it yourself, anyone playing the game more then just the odd time would spot it...
My guess would be there is not much they can do about it or it's a big issue to do anything about...
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I've solved the issue for myself now, well not solved but workaround shall we say, in my current MM it's more of a fantasy MM than what I usually play as I'm just finishing up achievements I didn't have yet such as buying/selling someone for £50m, buying 50 players in one MM etc. etc. so my current team is 5 star and I have the likes of Ronaldo, Torres, Bojan, Higuian and such playing for me I also have all coaches on 10 so some of my original Sheff Wednesday players are now 85+ as well.

Anyways the point I was about to make, what I do now is set the skill level based on my opponent, last season I played World Class against all 5* opponents and Professional against all <5* opponents, seemed to work out fairly well as I won the league but got knocked out in all the cups, this season I'm going to start by trying it on Legendary for all 5* opponents and World Class for all <5* opponents, the underdog AI crap is still there but because my squad is so good I can pretty much cope, the key thing is making sure my best 11 are fit for the Legendary matches, if I have to play my reserves I'm screwed :)
 
Gab_ said:
Seems like they have fucked up quite a bit when programming some stuff. Because they said the same things with a lot of stuff, that they had to throw away everything they had in 09 and start over because it was too difficult to add and change things in them. Must be some serious hardcoded shit if they say it is almost impossible to change something like the European competition structure.
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Every single game engine out there, asides from maybe source and unreal 3, have glaring holes within the programming structure. It's perfectly understandable - when they were building this engine in 2005/2006, they can't have been predicting things that now need adding in to the engine in 2009.

Couple that with the fact that they have to build the SDK for use by themselves in the future - and that SDK needs to be conducive to adding whatever feedback or new ideas they come up with in the future. Its a catch 22 - if they knew what would need adding in the future, they would add it in anyway. Anything not built into the system first time around will hence always 'conflict' with how the engine was produced. The obvious solution is that they get every thing right the first time around, but we know that just rarely happens.
 
Placebo said:
I've solved the issue for myself now, well not solved but workaround shall we say, in my current MM it's more of a fantasy MM than what I usually play as I'm just finishing up achievements I didn't have yet such as buying/selling someone for £50m, buying 50 players in one MM etc. etc. so my current team is 5 star and I have the likes of Ronaldo, Torres, Bojan, Higuian and such playing for me I also have all coaches on 10 so some of my original Sheff Wednesday players are now 85+ as well.

Anyways the point I was about to make, what I do now is set the skill level based on my opponent, last season I played World Class against all 5* opponents and Professional against all <5* opponents, seemed to work out fairly well as I won the league but got knocked out in all the cups, this season I'm going to start by trying it on Legendary for all 5* opponents and World Class for all <5* opponents, the underdog AI crap is still there but because my squad is so good I can pretty much cope, the key thing is making sure my best 11 are fit for the Legendary matches, if I have to play my reserves I'm screwed :)
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:DD;)) The lengths we go to, to make this game work in the MM.

I have altered the difficulty when playing lower teams but I hate to have a big squad or sign big players as I am playing with Leeds.
This means on Cup games you have to play your high 60's to mid 70's players who are also tired.

I think what gets me the most is how they can attack with five or six players bombing forward yet always have at least 4 at the back... :P
 
Well I replied to the thread, tried to summarise the situation and how it frustrates us, it's possible my post is too long to get an answer but we'll see:

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/...r-mode-questions-answers-67.html#post10675494

EA_MarcelKuhn said:
[MK] Despite reading around in the forums a bit, it's the first time I hear the term underdog AI. I don't think this is related to specific tweaks that we make to the AI, but the the tatical settings these teams use. Also it might be related to your playing style...maybe expand on what you exactly mean by some teams having a stifling defense and list what formation and tatical settings they play with.
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Without any offence intended, can I ask if you played Fifa09 MM much yourself? Beyond seeing what features are there and such? Because anyone who has played MM any length of time cannot fail to have noticed (and been massively frustrated by) the unbalanced underdog AI logic programmed into the game, basically let's consider two different matchups:

Example my league team is Portsmouth (before the leaking of all their good players), good team, rated 4.5* IIRC in Fifa09?

We play a home match against Liverpool, 5* team, lots of talent, it's a very tough match, Liverpool have skillful players, they pass the ball well and move well and perform realistically to their attributes of being world class players, I score early, manage to hold on for the win, they out possessed me and out shot me but I scrape a 1-0 win.

Next match is a league cup match, against League2 Lincoln City, they're a half * team, their best player is 62 overall and most players are mid 50s, the match kicks off, they constantly harass me for 90 minutes, despite their lowly stats they manage to have the stamina of a Gerrard, the tackling ability of Terry (this is every player mind, the forwards as well), the dribbling skills of Cronaldo (despite me having highly rated defenders of 85+ overall their 55 rate forward manages to dribble all around me), and their players seem to have taken their Drogba cereal and have the shooting ability of world class players, I end up losing and being completely frustrated playing against 11 super charged players who's stats mean absolutely nothing.

That is what the underdog AI logic is like and it's always there to varying degrees when you play against the AI (far worse at World Class/Legendary but still frustratingly there even at Professional).

Now I understand that the "magic of the cup" means that lower teams can raise their game a bit, and higher teams might get a little complacent, but a 50 overall defender cannot become John Terry for one match, a 50 overall forward cannot become Fernando Torres for one match, they can work really hard, they can use sensible tactics of getting men behind the ball as much as possible, marking 2 to 1 and such, but they should not get magical abilities to cheat their way to a win, that's jut bad, annoying design there.

So in short ;) that's what underdog AI logic is about and why we hate it.

Play against top teams and it's fair, if you lose it's because their abilities and play won them the match, play against lesser teams and you're battling their magical stat boosting beans and that's not fair gameplay.

So the question is, will this be fixed for Fifa10? Will underdog teams play fair? IE they'll try really hard, they'll use spoiling tactics as much as possible, but they won't get magical stat boosts?
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Nick Cave said:
:DD;)) The lengths we go to, to make this game work in the MM.

I have altered the difficulty when playing lower teams but I hate to have a big squad or sign big players as I am playing with Leeds.
This means on Cup games you have to play your high 60's to mid 70's players who are also tired.
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With the last 3 matches of the season left to play I had already won the league, so as my next two opponents were Chelsea away then Liverpool I thought what the hell I'll try legendary, so I play Chelsea, they were runners up to me, Legendary, all manual, win 4-0, piss all over them, out shot them, out possessed them, out passed them, played them off the park basically, next match, Liverpool, again Legendary and all manual of course, win 1-0, much closer match but I deserved the win, final match of the season, Wigan at home, stay with Legendary, 0-0 and I was fairly lucky to get the 0.
 
Nick Cave said:
Nice one, let's wait and see, I got nothing on my injury question...
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I saw your post and looked for the answer as he had answered it before that there should be more regular short/medium/long term injuries in Fifa10, but I couldn't find his exact answer (there were a couple of answers on injuries from him in the thread's history) so I gave up looking, simplest way is to just view all his posts and read through them.
 
Placebo said:
I saw your post and looked for the answer as he had answered it before that there should be more regular short/medium/long term injuries in Fifa10, but I couldn't find his exact answer (there were a couple of answers on injuries from him in the thread's history) so I gave up looking, simplest way is to just view all his posts and read through them.
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:TU:
I know Rutter said they had been activated, I had a look through too but could not find anything, it could do with a definitive list in there...
 
andish2001 said:
Every single game engine out there, asides from maybe source and unreal 3, have glaring holes within the programming structure. It's perfectly understandable - when they were building this engine in 2005/2006, they can't have been predicting things that now need adding in to the engine in 2009.

Couple that with the fact that they have to build the SDK for use by themselves in the future - and that SDK needs to be conducive to adding whatever feedback or new ideas they come up with in the future. Its a catch 22 - if they knew what would need adding in the future, they would add it in anyway. Anything not built into the system first time around will hence always 'conflict' with how the engine was produced. The obvious solution is that they get every thing right the first time around, but we know that just rarely happens.
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That is why you have the object oriented mindset, so you don't have to throw everything away just because you want to change something. It's one thing if it is something that stands alone, like their transfer system. It obviously sucked completely so they tossed it out, but if they would have tied it together with something else they couldn't do it that easily. This seems to be the problem with the league structures for example, that the schedule engine, or whatever it was, would break because of it. It's just lazy design from the start that is now biting them in the ass.
 
I absolutely hate the whole 'equalling out' or 'boosting' system used for crappy teams. Half hte fun of the carling cup games should be sticking out your reserves against a lowly side, and be ready for crappy touches and rubbish defending. Instead it's the hardest game of the season, and usually the only way to score is to be 'cheap', which I can justify having just hit hte post for 10th time in 5 minutes.

I know they're doing it to produce 'more realistic' scorelines, and making it a challenge. But in a manager mode, you want games that are 5-0. It happens. There are easy games.
 
Oh I do love posting on the EA forums, just got a lovely PM:

cfc23 said:
LOL,

Your 36, on fifa forums and you play fifa09 games, ROFL, get a life!
BTW you look about 56...
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I replied:

Placebo said:
And you're PM'ing me because?

I'm 36 and I work for a game developer (and also work for EA as a data editor on Fifa), so basically I get paid to play games, to chat about games, I think I have a pretty good life.

What is it you do for a living/life?
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Placebo said:
Oh I do love posting on the EA forums, just got a lovely PM:



I replied:
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I fekkin' hate this stupid childish lageers, cheaters and downright cunts.
Anyway, nice reply Placebo!! Let us know the outcome...If he still mouths off I think all who enter this thread should send the twat a lovely PM :RANT:
 
That's two Evo-Webbers I'll be meeting at the Emirates then! :D

I'll be the fat one in the FSB shirt...
 
BobbyBox said:
what is happening on the 14th?
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It's a FIFA 10 community event but you have to have won entry via an EA competition that's finished now to get in. I was invited through my FSB connection.

If you suck up to MJ or Blaccat though perhaps they'll let you be their +1! ;)
 
Great news lads, shall we set up a questionslist beforehand so you can check stuff out? Already started one in the "things that are great" thread.
 
Chris Davies said:
That's two Evo-Webbers I'll be meeting at the Emirates then! :D

I'll be the fat one in the FSB shirt...
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Thank you, I only found out on your blog

I will be the black guy with the enormous head. lol

Now I need to change my controls back to default, it will be a pain reconfiguring the 360 controls
 
Chris Davies said:
That's two Evo-Webbers I'll be meeting at the Emirates then! :D

I'll be the fat one in the FSB shirt...
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I'll be the fat one without an FSB shirt. :BYE:

Chris Davies said:
It's a FIFA 10 community event but you have to have won entry via an EA competition that's finished now to get in. I was invited through my FSB connection.

If you suck up to MJ or Blaccat though perhaps they'll let you be their +1! ;)
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Sorry Bobby, my friend has already snapped up my guest spot.
 
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