FIFA 10

My feeling is - after playing a hell of a lot more FIFA 10 than 09, that for some reason, it getting WORSE for me.

At the start, I was scoring lots of (different) goals, seeing organic movements and generally really enjoying it.

Now, 99% of games feel the same, build up is the same, I havent scored in (literally) god knows how many games (Pro level) and any half chances I get are from nabbing the ball from the last man.

I've tried manual and semi passing, crossing and shooting and no combo satisfies me.

I'm gutted really as it CAN be a great game and multiplayer online is ace, but single player has only got so many plays left in it for me, before I give up on it.

It got so bad that I brought PES6 back on Saturday (£1.99 Blockbusters!) and its still got the magic that I loved (personally feel 6 was the best for me) and immediately I was creating exciting football and scoring varied goals.

Such a shame :(
 
I always endeavour to mix things up as well but an awful lot of creative avenues that I look to take I know deep down will almost never lead to a goal. I still score the odd nice goal but contrary to what you say I don't feel like I've crafted a goal in FIFA. In PES's of old I would be able to score almost any goal I could think of, really turning on the style to capitalise on panicked defending, and I would feel rewarded precisely because I managed to score a good goal with a lesser club. It's only the elite clubs that suffer from convenient outcomes from 50 50's or overly easy goals; play with a decent but not top team and this is eliminated (besides which you are often able to beat the Chelsea spammers anyway if you're focussed). In FIFA the ball physics, overphysicality and lack of acceleration curve of the players renders the close game rather feeble while wingers are able to do fullback for fun just by using a trick or by using the right stick to knock the ball on. You can try playing the ball around in tight spaces but it is seldom rewarded to the same extent as first time passing up the pitch.
 
After 70-70-70... now "every" team has 50-50-50...

I have waited for the official update of the team tactics and it seems like it is here. Not sure this is THE update but if it is... what a joke! If every team played much the same before this change now it's even worse.

I have just gone through the EPL teams but every team has either 50 or 60 on crossing, every team has between 50 and 60 on shooting and so on.

I am one of the people that thinks EA has done a good job listening to the community and the fans in recent years but this year... I don't know what happened.

There's just too much empty talk this year! (kind of EA in the past)
 
pboreham said:
My feeling is - after playing a hell of a lot more FIFA 10 than 09, that for some reason, it getting WORSE for me.

At the start, I was scoring lots of (different) goals, seeing organic movements and generally really enjoying it.

Now, 99% of games feel the same, build up is the same, I havent scored in (literally) god knows how many games (Pro level) and any half chances I get are from nabbing the ball from the last man.

I've tried manual and semi passing, crossing and shooting and no combo satisfies me.

I'm gutted really as it CAN be a great game and multiplayer online is ace, but single player has only got so many plays left in it for me, before I give up on it.

It got so bad that I brought PES6 back on Saturday (£1.99 Blockbusters!) and its still got the magic that I loved (personally feel 6 was the best for me) and immediately I was creating exciting football and scoring varied goals.

Such a shame :(
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Stick to PES then. Scoring in FIFA is not difficult.
 
stahre said:
After 70-70-70... now "every" team has 50-50-50...

I have waited for the official update of the team tactics and it seems like it is here. Not sure this is THE update but if it is... what a joke! If every team played much the same before this change now it's even worse.

I have just gone through the EPL teams but every team has either 50 or 60 on crossing, every team has between 50 and 60 on shooting and so on.

I am one of the people that thinks EA has done a good job listening to the community and the fans in recent years but this year... I don't know what happened.

There's just too much empty talk this year! (kind of EA in the past)
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So, the new squad update is really out?
can u check if Neill is at Everton?
 
Yeah I downloaded the latest squad file and you're right, gone are the all 70s of lower league teams, definitely looks like they've done nothing to match the teams with those splendidly created custom tactics people have made, so I hope they still plan to fix that, problem is when they release it that will reset the stadium names and this squad file also reset the stadium names.

No Neill at Everton either.
 
Placebo said:
Yeah I downloaded the latest squad file and you're right, gone are the all 70s of lower league teams, definitely looks like they've done nothing to match the teams with those splendidly created custom tactics people have made, so I hope they still plan to fix that, problem is when they release it that will reset the stadium names and this squad file also reset the stadium names.

No Neill at Everton either.
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So there is no point in downloading until they change the stat's? Or is this the change?...
 
Placebo said:
Yeah I downloaded the latest squad file and you're right, gone are the all 70s of lower league teams, definitely looks like they've done nothing to match the teams with those splendidly created custom tactics people have made, so I hope they still plan to fix that, problem is when they release it that will reset the stadium names and this squad file also reset the stadium names.

No Neill at Everton either.
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meh :(
 
http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/...ies-mm-fix-request-thread-3.html#post11954045

EA_MarcelKuhn said:
...it seems that long-term injuries are happening, but they are very rare. Which is what I've experienced when I played the game as well. I just happened to get one right away which is why, back in the pre-release days, I immidiately posted that it's fixed.

To give you some more detail, we've retuned the injury system, added some new long-term injuries and (slightly!) increased the chances of long-term injuries happening in simmed games. I will keep coming back to this thread, to get a better idea about the frequency and lenght of injuries you are seeing as I agree they are important.

I think the idea with the sliders is a good one and we will look into it.

Oh, and "Hi all"...;)...still reading all posts - just not replying as frequently anymore as PWride does an excellent good job keeping you all in the loop.
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There are no long term injuries. There are no medium term injuries. When playing matches, this is based on a cumulative 500+ matches played between myself and a couple of friends, despite your repeated promise that medium/long term injuries were fixed, they're not. I think it's pretty clear you got the injury when simming a match and posted that it was fixed, it's not.

Out of 500+ played matches we've only ever had 1 week injuries, never, ever any more than that, a bug from Fifa08 and Fifa09 you failed to fix despite promising repeatedly was fixed.

So you still keep reading but you're refusing to address any of the dozens and dozens of issues we've posted about from manager mode, a mode you posted on here repeatedly about to promote with promises of things that would be fixed and weren't, things that would be implemented but aren't, where's medium length injuries? Long term injuries? Prize money for winning tournaments? Promotion warchest to rebuild your squad? Etc. etc. etc.
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Rob92 said:
I'm also yet to see a good shot from a 90 degree angle, let alone when facing away from goal.
You'll NEVER see a goal like this on FIFA 10:
YouTube - sneijder goal against france (best goal) euro 2008
It would have been possible to score something like that on PES5 though.
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Why would you give an example of a goal that can only be regarded as exceptional? Shouldn't a game's level of realism be judged on how often we see the most common types of goals occur?

To give an example like that is like me saying that FIFA is unrealistic because I haven't seen a goal remotely close to maradona's famous run. The game has been out for what - 2 months? And you complain you haven't seen a goal like above in the probably 700 matches you have played? It took Wesley his whole career up until that point to score a goal like that - and if you took all the matches of football occurring on that date when he scored it and all the matches on every day before it, in the whole world, it probably took well over 10 million matches for him to score it. Lower your expectations.

While I agree FIFA 10 is marginally disappointing, please maintain some perspective. Yes, goals like that were possible and more common in PES - for mine it was the poorer for it. The goal was special because it was rare. Complaining you haven't seen a replication within 2 months of the game's release is damning, prejudicial and wrong.

Does anyone agree with me that so many of us feel underwhelmed by FIFA 10 not because its "bad" or any worse than FIFA 09 or 08, but because of the hype, and by extension the expectations we created? Maybe PES never got shit - maybe it simply plateaued at the level of PES6 - at which point either the technology wouldnt allow any further development, the people behind it ran out of ideas, or they didnt have the skills to execute the ideas if they did have them. Has FIFA and EA reached the same point at 08/09? Its a shorter cycle than PES had, for sure, but at the end of the day the games can only be as good as the people creating them. Maybe NBA2K is (/was - lol) as good as it is because the people behind it are more talented than those behind FIFA.

My point is - rather than assuming that EA have fucked up or have in some way held back, could it be that they just aren't that good? Money and resources to buy development are one thing - having the requisite talent is another. How many of you are pushing the envelope at your workplace? They are workers just like you and me - to expect groundbreaking and exceptional performance from every release is unreasonable.

P.S. This isnt a shot at you guys - I too am guilty of this.
 
So finally an official statement from Marcel:

EA_MarcelKuhn said:
Manager Mode feedback received

There has been a lot of feedback since we released FIFA 10, and it took me a while to comb through all of it. At this point, I just wanted to let you know that I’m reading ALL of your posts and thank you for all your comments. We are very committed to follow-through on our multi-year plan to make a kick-lalala Manager Mode, and together we will get there.

We've completed the first step, and we’ve added many features to the mode for FIFA 10. I’ve been frank so far, and I will openly admit that we’ve outpaced ourselves a little bit. As a result, even the two updates we’ve released have not allowed us to find & fix all the issues that are still lingering in the code we’ve inherited. As time goes by, we will re-write more of the fundamental subsystems that drive the mode, and further increase its quality and depth.

With that all being said, I’ve completed several play-throughs (simming, playing and both combined) and have talked to many people who've invested some time in the mode. Bottom line is that we’ve delivered a definite improvement over last years’ mode with FIFA 10, and I hope you are able to enjoy the changes as well, despite some of its current shortcomings.

See you out there,
marcel
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Of course it was posted in the "Dev Team Lobby" so nobody can actually reply as all posts are censored to only allow positive ones in there.

So a couple of threads being used to post in directly to Marcel:

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/...ft-xbox-360/838514-ea-marcel-you-lied-us.html

Thread title's a bit contentious but you can't blame someone for seeing it like that, I added my own reply:

Placebo said:
DaMoneyz said:
ok im going to pick esact quotes what markel and ea lied to us about if anyone could help that would be great. if anyone could head over to the manager mode q&a thread and pick out quotes from marcel that arnt true that would be great i will add it to my op
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Where to start? The list is so long.

He said medium/long term injuries were fixed, they're not.
He said playing two matches on the same day was fixed, it's not.
He said inappropriate teams qualifying for Europe was fixed, it's not.
He said when you get promoted you get a transfer fund bump to help you survive in the new league, you don't.
He said AI would make appropriate lineup selections, they don't.
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Another is http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/...k/821145-feedback-issues-manager-mode-32.html

Placebo said:
DefunctDvlfsh said:
Disgraceful. Still no response from EA.
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This apparently is the official response:

EA_MarcelKuhn said:
There has been a lot of feedback since we released FIFA 10, and it took me a while to comb through all of it. At this point, I just wanted to let you know that I’m reading ALL of your posts and thank you for all your comments. We are very committed to follow-through on our multi-year plan to make a kick-lalala Manager Mode, and together we will get there.

We've completed the first step, and we’ve added many features to the mode for FIFA 10. I’ve been frank so far, and I will openly admit that we’ve outpaced ourselves a little bit. As a result, even the two updates we’ve released have not allowed us to find & fix all the issues that are still lingering in the code we’ve inherited. As time goes by, we will re-write more of the fundamental subsystems that drive the mode, and further increase its quality and depth.

With that all being said, I’ve completed several play-throughs (simming, playing and both combined) and have talked to many people who've invested some time in the mode. Bottom line is that we’ve delivered a definite improvement over last years’ mode with FIFA 10, and I hope you are able to enjoy the changes as well, despite some of its current shortcomings.

See you out there,
marcel
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So basically he admits it was released broken but they're doing nothing to fix it :(

Seeing as he posted in the censorship section where they only allow posts in that are positive and non-critical I sent Marcel a PM:

Manager Mode Broken Promises

Placebo said:
Marcel,

Can I ask what on earth went wrong? You spent months and months and months promising all these great things, promising that old bugs we'd had to suffer through would be fixed, and what do we find when we buy the game? Old bugs are not fixed, new bugs are introduced and the mode is completely broken, and to top it all off you go into hiding and refuse to address all of the issues raised? Hardly seems fair after so many months of convincing us how great Fifa10's MM was going to be, I am very, very surprised and disappointed that you would hide from us all Marcel.

Regards,

Paul.
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Obviously not expecting a reply but I don't think it's very fair that he made months of posts promising great things for MM, then goes into hiding and only posts to basically wink at us for finding all the bugs we found.
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andish2001 said:
Does anyone agree with me that so many of us feel underwhelmed by FIFA 10 not because its "bad" or any worse than FIFA 09 or 08, but because of the hype, and by extension the expectations we created?

My point is - rather than assuming that EA have fucked up or have in some way held back, could it be that they just aren't that good? Money and resources to buy development are one thing - having the requisite talent is another. How many of you are pushing the envelope at your workplace? They are workers just like you and me - to expect groundbreaking and exceptional performance from every release is unreasonable.
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It's an interesting question.

The thing is, software development is very much an iterative process. Once everything is functional, time has to be spent 'polishing', tweaking and balancing. You could do this to the nth degree, but there are deadlines and a line has to be drawn somewhere.

To hurry to the point, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the feel of the gameplay to improve each year, even within the time constraints of an annual cycle. Each year brings more iteration to polish what you had to leave alone last year, with the benefit of a wealth of feedback on what wasn't quite right last time to act upon.

Over 08 & 09 they got that process right and made clear progress. With 10... some stuff is better, some is the same, but some stuff feels worse.

I don't think it's an indication of a glass ceiling, I just think they got some stuff wrong this time around. You could take what already exists on-the-pitch in FIFA 10, add nothing, and tweak and re-balance gameplay variables and details for weeks (...months) to produce a better playing game within the existing structure, without the need to break new ground.

So, yes, there is unfulfilled expectation there, which brings disappointment and breeds (exaggerated?) negative responses. But I'm not convinced that could be written off as being due to excessive hype, because some of the expectation is justified. You don't expect the keepers to get worse, for example.

*pause for breath*

And then we come to careless coding, which is an area where EA indisputably fucked up this year. A colleague and I shared the opinion that FIFA 09 was already a fairly buggy game (though not to a game-breaking level); sadly FIFA 10 is riddled with the things, unnecessarily so. Nothing quite disrupts the gamer's fun, ruins immersion and brings down the whole standard of the product as much as shonky/half-arsed errors (the industry refers to testing as 'Quality Assurance' for a reason). On top of that correctable pile, throw issues such as the Gameface fail and various online mode connection issues and it all contributes to frustration and negative feeling.

Note that none of that is about being groundbreaking - just about doing it right.

Some improvements were made this year. I prefer the 360 degree movement, I like the advances in animation, etc. But there are several things... the goalkeepers, the marking, player inertia/acceleration, the weather, and so on... that can spoil my fun at times. They didn't in 09. To me that suggests it's not all hype or limitations, but just that FIFA 10 ultimately gets some key things - very, very fixable things - wrong. Ergo... relatively underwhelmed.
 
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andish - I'm not asking to see a carbon copy of that goal, what i'm saying is that it's impossible to strike the ball like that in FIFA, because of the way the basic and scripted shooting system works.

Here's two facts about the shooting in FIFA:

You cannot shoot powerfully at most angles.
You cannot shoot powerfully when standing.

Those two things mean that as I said, to score a goal anything like that Sneijder one is impossible (the angle), and also that to have much success in goalscoring you have to focus your chance creation around being able to have a shot while moving and facing the goal, as trying to score in other ways has a dramatically lower success rate so it's not worth even trying, which in itself greatly reduces goal variety...

I understand your point about that being a rare goal, but to illustrate my point, go into the practice mode from the arena with a team who has a few long shot specialists, start a "practice match" with no opponents apart from a keeper, and try shooting from various positions/angles, bear in mind that this is with absolutely no pressure and full stamina, so the shots should be the best possible for each player.
You'll notice that every shot taken in some ways is rubbish, and every shot taken in other ways is a rocket. It's a flawed system.
 
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What is it you want implemented Rob?

To me it makes sense that running onto a ball and smacking it will result in a more powerful shot that standing still.

I also think that the system should like in real footy make your player shoot with less power when he has less to aim at, unless you choose to blast it in which case you should miss 8 or 9 times out of 10.

I might not be understanding you though, but I think you should have to work to get space to unleash a pile driver, or be lucky enough to be running onto a slide rule pass enabling a first timer.

Anyway, never mind you will have MW2 soon and can learn all the cheats/clitches for that ;)
 
I fully acknowledge that you should get more powerful shots when running onto the ball, the problem is more to do with how weak the standing shooting is.

When I played indoor football at school, on penalties we had a rule where you had to take your penalties by just putting your standing foot next to the ball and take the pen with no run up. Even then, we could all hit fairly powerful pens.
An example recently of a goal in a match would be Leon Best's goal against Derby (can't find a video now, sorry I can't give another example, I don't watch that much football nowadays due to not having Sky).

On FIFA, if you come to a stop and then try to hit a shot with no "run up" or momentum from moving, and you will get a pathetically weak shot which would beat no keeper in the world... You can also try doing the flick up by holding LT + tapping RB, then hold forward on the left stick to flick it up to about head height then try volleying it on the way down. As your player has no momentum, the volley will be crap, when in reality volleying the ball from standing can still result in getting a good shot away.

Surely you lot must have had it happen where you cross the ball into the box, and your unmarked winger on the far side is standing there waiting for it to arrive, he moves backwards to prevent headering it, and then when you press shoot, he does one of those silly little weak shots i've mentioned because he was standing still, despite the ball having a lot of pace on it from the cross.

I know i've compared to reality a couple of times in this post but I can't see the hardware being the limitation on the lack of a good shooting system, because PES5 had one and it didn't have the problems I posted above and that was on much worse hardware.

What i'd like to see is the shooting system being revamped (new animations may be needed) to allow powerful shots at angles to be possible, decent standing shots to be possible and a lot more variation in the trajectory of the shots (more curl/dip, the shots in FIFA 10 travel in almost straight lines) - in short, i'd like it to be more like PES' shooting.

And btw, I got MW2 :D.
 
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andi - the reason why that goal is used is because we remember the great goals, and they are more likely to be posted in isolation than as part of a 9 minute compilation. Who is going to post a Youtube clip of a decent, realistic but relatively unmemorable shot? ;) It's important to make clear that we're not asking for these types of goals, but these types of shots.

You have to remember that it is not the specific goal that we are missing here - it's a huge swathe of realistic goal opportunities lost because shots from an angle are no more powerful than passes, and keepers are exceptional shot stoppers at the best of times. The example given is maybe a bit lobbish to fully convey the point by itself but we're not talking about a missing animation but a key aspect of the game that most take for granted. To post some memorable goal styles again, the Sheringham corner, the Shearer turn and shot, the Ronaldo cut across goal and hammer it in near post, etc etc, are all goal types that are eliminated by this fundamental flaw.

YouTube - Ryan Babel Goal against Lyon 1-0

Babel - it's an exceptional goal but the point is power at an angle is possible.

Consequently when a striker manages to turn and find space against my centre back for a free shot on his stronger foot, 10 yards out, if he is at a bit of an angle (45 degrees is plenty, 30 is enough) I don't expect to concede unless the shot is utterly, utterly perfectly aimed. Not being afraid of the opposition in this situation is a damning indictment for a football game. Can you imagine a tennis game where you can only hit a winning forehand shot if you are running in the direction you want the ball to go?

Don't forget, for that matter, that free kick takers very rarely run straight at goal. Beckham is practically at 90 degrees to the ball; most free kick takers are at about, what, 45-60 degrees? Certainly more than 30. Yet they manage (sometimes, not all the time, EA!) to generate enough power to beat a wall and the keeper from 20-30 yards, all while hitting a ball that is not already carrying momentum.




edit: btw andi - it is an interesting question about whether it's the actual devs that are holding the game back. I raised the point about the dev team's actual talent a while back when I questioned how many of the team working on FIFA 10 were also working on the worst FIFAs of this decade. They may have got some new guys in to cause the current shift towards quality, but there are always going to be those people who think that the best solution to stopping through ball exploits is to make the defence always stand 5 yards off the strikers, and the best fix for easily lobbed keepers is to break the shooting.

I don't doubt that Konami have a similar situation though; their advantage is that they've had several years of building up from a tiny team of people who know how to balance a PS1 football game, adding all of the little details and intricacies to make the single player a year-long experience ever since. FIFA meanwhile, is on a crash course, and as a result is always going to have some holes that need plugging. What is frustrating though is that EA have been focussing so much on animations, skilled dribbling, Virtual Pros etc etc, and then claiming that they have been all about 70% refinement this edition.
 
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edit: btw andi - it is an interesting question about whether it's the actual devs that are holding the game back. I raised the point about the dev team's actual talent a while back when I questioned how many of the team working on FIFA 10 were also working on the worst FIFAs of this decade. They may have got some new guys in to cause the current shift towards quality, but there are always going to be those people who think that the best solution to stopping through ball exploits is to make the defence always stand 5 yards off the strikers, and the best fix for easily lobbed keepers is to break the shooting.
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The "improved" crossing reminded me a lot of the bad old days. It's totally scripted with a ridiculous amount of curl. Ive had low crosses curl back to about half way between the halfwayline and the goalline because it just kept on curving even though it was bouncing off the turf. FIFA oldgen had the same trajectories.
 
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