FIFA 10

[romagnoli]

Well I'm here and I'm listening to a 20 minute song so I may as well bite..

My point is that having such ridicolous expectations toward a sports game or taking real football as paradigm while talking about videogames is just...insane. You'll never get a 100% perfect game, get over it and try to get the best out of what you've got.

I haven't seen anyone here put forward any ridiculous expectations. Nobody at all. Pretty much everything people have been asking for can be found in games much older than FIFA 10.

Moreover if you haven't at least gone out of your way to play the best football games that have been produced in the last 5~6 years (aka Football Kingdom and J.League Winning Eleven 200x) and got passively fed whatever the marketing departments kept throwing into your general direction instead you really have no room to talk because you know jack shit and have long lost a sense of perspective.

Are you releasing a book of these for Christmas?

You just get better with each post. Are you wearing a beret as you type? At least when people talk like this about the arts they've often got a point (even if they're being a c*** about it). You, well, you haven't got a point. Firstly, I'll put money on almost nobody at EA has played J League Winning Eleven 2009 and yet they're the ones making games for a living.

Besides which, making that case would only have a shred of weight if you were on the side criticizing FIFA 10 while we said it was 'fucking good'. What we've all said is that FIFA 10 doesn't stack up gameplay-wise against football games we have played. Playing Football Kingdom won't lift a veil from our eyes and reveal that actually FIFA has got ping pong passing spot on. You only need to play two games to see what FIFA 10 is getting wrong - FIFA 10, and a game better than FIFA 10.

I'm curious though, if FIFA 10 has been such a disappointment to you then WHAT hasn't?

in before Halo or Modern Warfare.

All the games that didn't turn out to monumentally cock up a long list of key gameplay aspects that have been nailed by games 10 years old.

 

[romagnoli]

well, I played long enough in pes5 and i can say types of goal in pes 5 is limited and much more unique goals you can shoot in Fifa10 ( manual )

Really? Go over to the videos thread and see how many first time volley shots over the keeper you can see. Manual means nothing if the keepers and the ball physics are borked.

 

[Rob92]

My point is that having such ridicolous expectations toward a sports game or taking real football as paradigm while talking about videogames is just...insane. You'll never get a 100% perfect game, get over it and try to get the best out of what you've got.

That's not what people are doing, people know there are limits on how close a video game can get to reality, but we are just comparing what's in FIFA 10 to what's in football games of the past (mainly PES5) and FIFA 10 doesn't do a lot of things as well as games which are 4+ years old now.

Moreover if you haven't at least gone out of your way to play the best football games that have been produced in the last 5~6 years (aka Football Kingdom and J.League Winning Eleven 200x) and got passively fed whatever the marketing departments kept throwing into your general direction instead you really have no room to talk because you know jack shit and have long lost a sense of perspective.

Are you saying I know "jack shit" about what makes a good football game, purely because I didn't import WE/FK? That's an absolutely nonsensical thing to say...

I'm curious though, if FIFA 10 has been such a disappointment to you then WHAT hasn't?

in before Halo or Modern Warfare.

I've actually played neither Halo nor Modern Warfare.
Just to name a few games which havn't been a disappointment to me:
The whole GTA series, PGR4, Skate 1 and 2, Rainbow Six Vegas 2, PES3, PES5, Mass Effect, Burnout Paradise, The Orange Box, Fallout 3, Oblivion......

Need I go on?

 

[DerleiPT]

Really? Go over to the videos thread and see how many first time volley shots over the keeper you can see. Manual means nothing if the keepers and the ball physics are borked.

I dont say Fifa10 has no limited of goals.ITs only game. I want say that Fifa10 has more variety of goals .

 

[stilts1844]

I agree with a lot of what is said here but there seems to be a bit of revisionist history with Fifa 08... it was rife with issues. This whole idea that it had goal variety is pretty outlandish to me, does no one remember the near post goal syndrome that existed in that game? you could score near post goals exceptionally easy and it was nearly impossible to score far post goals. That right there practically kills the idea of great goal variety. And then obviously response times were pretty awful... and you couldn't shield the ball at all when dribbling either. I understand being upset with Fifa 10 but comparing it unfavorably to fifa 08 i think is ridiculous. (And by the way I did enjoy fifa 08 at the time)

 

[romagnoli]

Derlei - To clarify, you want to say FIFA 10 has more variety, or did you mean you won't say that?

Because I think PES's of old had a far greater variety of realistic goalscoring chances than FIFA 10 does. In PES if someone shoots in the penalty area there's a real chance he'll score. In FIFA, because they've not coded defences properly, they've made shooting at an angle other than head on extremely weak.

Take Babel's goal for Liverpool vs Lyon. He was running at almost 90 degrees to goal, but hammered the ball in from 25 yards. You'd struggle to score that in FIFA from 12 yards because shooting sideways is so tame. Consequently when the ball is in your area you don't feel under a lot of threat because the keeper will most likely save whatever is thrown at him.

I also feel that the football you can play in PES is far more expressive, which generates those chances. Dribbling is more intuitive as tricks are controlled with reflex motions with the left stick, rather than going into trick mode. You can be cleverer with the ball to work chances in tight spaces, whereas in FIFA double pressuring kills all and most shots aren't a threat. The R1 dummy is still not effective enough for my liking either, as you can't leave a pass unless you are stationary.

edit: stilts, I agree. FIFA 08 showed promise but it was overrun with fundamental problems such as ludicrous response times, players locking onto the ball when they had no reason to, superhuman keepers and (in contrast to subsequent FIFAs) no physical presence. You could take a first touch right at defenders and the striker would just bomb through them.

 

[Rob92]

I dont say Fifa10 has no limited of goals.ITs only game. I want say that Fifa10 has more variety of goals .

That's why on Clubs, 99% of the goals are from this list (which I posted on the EA forums):

1) Finesse shot into the far bottom corner - BY FAR the most common type of online goal, finesse shots from some angles/positions are 99% guaranteed goals just like 09, usually these are preceded by a sequence of unrealistically perfect assisted first-time passes (ping-pong)...

2) The stupid keepers rushing out (ignoring the double tap of Y/triangle) and getting chipped. It doesn't help that they are midgets most of the time.

3) Cutbacks. A legitimate tactic, but still a cheap and boring one which is almost the ONLY way some teams try to attack.

4) Corners/throw ins which get headed in by the 6'7 giants, who were being marked by the generic dwarf centre-backs (who are not even average human height most of the time) giving you no chance.
This could also happen from crosses but it's rare, as the assisted/semi crossing on this game is usually poo.

5) Free kicks. I don't really need to elaborate much on this - if you practice free kicks for a while in the practice mode from various positions then you will be able aim about 90% of your free kicks inch perfectly into the top corner.
Moving the wall to change the keeper's position and putting a player on the line helps cut down on the amount conceded though.

6) Rebounds off the keeper when he should have caught it, or lucky deflections off defenders straight to the feet of the striker for tap ins.

I'm not really one for saying games have a "feeling" or any other word where you can't actually describe it properly, but on PES5 it just felt like football in the final third - I would take a shot at goal in situations where I would shoot in real life, and the outcome would feel organic and believable, whether it flew into the top corner or into the stands.

On FIFA 10 I end up using my gaming brain more often than my football one, because you know that from some angles you are not going to score, even if you would have a very good chance to do so in real life and that some types of build-up won't work because you'll just get pressured to death if you try them. Online, all you can really do is run like hell and pass, pass, pass to the players who are in the most space and have to shield the ball or do tricks at any time between the passes to retain posession, having no time to think... That's not football.

 

[Jamezinho]

Jamenzinho : I'm not surprised , you allways AGREE with guys who loves pes and dont like Fifa In fact that you like Fifa08 shows your passion to arcadish ,scripted games like example Pes2010 .

cheers

Such a stupid comment for many reasons.

So you believe Fifa 08 is arcadish? It was the game that revolutionised the Fifa series from a simple arcadish game to a more thoughtful simulation. It was the game that made me and most of the other hardcore PES players sit up and take notice. If you think Fifa 08 is a scripted arcade game then by your logic Fifa 09 & 10 are in the same category. The fact is, since Fifa 08, the franchise is far from an arcade game any more and I fully accept that it is very much a simulation since 2007.

Secondly, I've said how much I loved Fifa 08 and Euro 2008 (I also put some serious time into Fifa 09) so to imply that I'm a PES fanboy is far from the truth.

 

[DerleiPT]

This discussion begins to be biased.
you write variants shooting goals in Fifa10 and ok , i can agree with some points but , I ask, what does it mean? i can write the same things about pes5 shooting.You just forgot about pes5 goals exploits

oh , damn i forgot about control players. In fifa10 you can do everything , in pes5 ? looks like walking on the chessboard

I still think in Fifa10manual we have more goals variants .

I never said that this game is an infinite number of goals variants but more than pes5 . btw. i think you take this game too seriously AS simulation / real football , its joke ?

btw.Believe me but i played really long time in pes5 and after few months i knew where i cant(99%) shhoting and where i can shooting on goal.

 

[DerleiPT]

Such a stupid comment for many reasons.

So you believe Fifa 08 is arcadish? It was the game that revolutionised the Fifa series from a simple arcadish game to a more thoughtful simulation. It was the game that made me and most of the other hardcore PES players sit up and take notice. If you think Fifa 08 is a scripted arcade game then by your logic Fifa 09 & 10 are in the same category. The fact is, since Fifa 08, the franchise is far from an arcade game any more and I fully accept that it is very much a simulation since 2007.

Secondly, I've said how much I loved Fifa 08 and Euro 2008 (I also put some serious time into Fifa 09) so to imply that I'm a PES fanboy is far from the truth.

All what i can to say is : good to know your point of view .In fifa10 scripts are visible but its nothing compare with Fifa08 Fifa 08 and simulation come on man.As i said before , balance between deffence and attack doesnt mean sim IN Fifa08.Is many thing which makes this game bad and only better than crapy pes08,09 and with ONLINE better than pes10 also.

 

[Rob92]

What sort of shot can you score on manual FIFA that you couldn't score on PES5? I can't think of one...

The fact that you can't do a powerful standing half-volley (or any standing shot for that matter) greatly cuts down on goal variation, as you have to be moving to get a good shot away... This means that if the ball falls to a player on the edge of the box, you have to take a few touches before hitting it to hit a decent shot, this is where the game forces you to use your gaming brain rather than your football one - your football brain is screaming "HIT IT!" but your gaming one is saying "You won't score that, don't hit it!" and that sort of situation happens so often in FIFA...

I'm also yet to see a good shot from a 90 degree angle, let alone when facing away from goal.
You'll NEVER see a goal like this on FIFA 10:
YouTube - sneijder goal against france (best goal) euro 2008
It would have been possible to score something like that on PES5 though.

I still havn't seen a realistic glancing header, or a diving header scored.

On the "chessboard" comment - every football game apart from FIFA 10 is like that, even FIFA 09 and PES 2010... as I said before, it doesn't add to goal variation.

I also doubt that you found many exploit goals on PES5 - the keepers were slightly easy to beat at the near post, they didn't react properly to cutbacks and there was that free kick bug but I never remember coming across any more (even online, where exploiters are everywhere). On day 1 on FIFA 10 I came across a bunch of cheap goals, such as the ones from the list in post #9580 and just the general feeling that cheap, unrealistic football is rewarded over playing tactical, realistic football... That was the opposite in PES5 by a long way...

 

[klashman69]

The sheer fact that you'd pick FIFA 08 and PES 5/6/2010 (2010? Are you for real?) as paradigms of electronic football over stuff like JWE2008/2009CC and Football Kingdom means that you're just tasteless and rather ignorant when it comes to football games, thus not really worth arguing with.

Also the sheer fact that you seem to think that i have played JWE2008/2009CC (which i haven't of course because i i haven't been able to buy that game means you desperatley making up rubbish to defend FIFA 10.

Also why try to insult me because i don't love football kingdom, i have tried to find this game, i can't seem to see it anywhere and i have no gurantee if it will work with my battered up old PS2. I love the look of Football Kingdom but it's not easy to buy is it?

 

[DerleiPT]

,, What sort of shot can you score on manual FIFA that you couldn't score on PES5? I can't think of one... ''

somethin like bla bla bla . I think very differently and what you think ? want to talk about it ?


You talking about one variant of goal dude and i can say ,, yes i saw goal like this in fifa10 ,, or i can show youtube movie with goal which i havn't seen in pes5 , man its funny.

,,I still havn't seen a realistic glancing header, or a diving header scored.,,

I noticed goals like this.

,, On the "chessboard" comment - every football game apart from FIFA 10 is like that, even FIFA 09 and PES 2010... as I said before, it doesn't add to goal variation. ,,

I talking about player control which is awful compare with Fifa10 - and this is fact.


,, I also doubt that you found many exploit goals on PES5 - the keepers were slightly easy to beat at the near post, they didn't react properly to cutbacks and there was that free kick bug but I never remember coming across any more (even online, where exploiters are everywhere). On day 1 on FIFA 10 I came across a bunch of cheap goals, such as the ones from the list in post #9580 and just the general feeling that cheap, unrealistic football is rewarded over playing tactical, realistic football... That was the opposite in PES5 by a long way... ''

oh man. yes i found some 20-30 m exploit goals on 1vs1 party.Mean 99% goal and 0% for score goal.Yes you found FEW exploits goal but question and what ? This does not prove that in pes5 is more varains of goals and trust me , you cant prove this because you would have make moves with every goal by few years and even this would not have shown this

Me and my friends(pesfanboys in the past) think that Fifa10 have more varianst of goals .thats all . You point of view is different and ok but i think you trying
convince me, because your ego can not stand that your imagination can anyone challenge. As i said before , you CANT prove me that you are right.games are too complicated and its not worth time

 

[klashman69]

The fact that you think FIFA 08 is more of an arcade game than FIFA 10 shows your lack of knowledge of what a realistic football game should be like.

There was good balance between def and attack but it doesnt mean that this game is good. Fifa08 is boring and scripted .[/QUOTE]

Ok, what are you, Hjerpsth's clone or something. Do you just play games for the dribbling and doing tricks with players like Owen Hargreves?

 

[klashman69]

well, I played long enough in pes5 and i can say types of goal in pes 5 is limited and much more unique goals you can shoot in Fifa10 ( manual )

What you mean like chips? One on ones? Shooting across the keeper from range? Shooting directly at him and he watches it sail over his head.

This is someone who played manual ALL last year with fifa 09. I know how to score with it and where you can score.

When it comes to FIFA 10 even on manual, It's still the same poor game.

 

[DerleiPT]

There was good balance between def and attack but it doesnt mean that this game is good. Fifa08 is boring and scripted .

Ok, what are you, Hjerpsth's clone or soething. Do you just play games for the dribbling and doing tricks with players like Owen Hargreves?[/QUOTE]

You said that ? me ? i dont think so.
Hjerpsth's what ?

What you mean like chips? One on ones? Shooting across the keeper from range? Shooting directly at him and he watches it sail over his head.

This is someone who played manual ALL last year with fifa 09. I know how to score with it and where you can score.

When it comes to FIFA 10 even on manual, It's still he same poor game.

I can agree only with chips - it's very bad in new fifa.

I dont know Fifa10 is poor and certainly not as poor as new pes10

 

[klashman69]

Ok, what are you, Hjerpsth's clone or soething. Do you just play games for the dribbling and doing tricks with players like Owen Hargreves?

You said that ? me ? i dont think so.
Hjerpsth's what ?



I can agree only with chips - it's very bad in new fifa.

I dont know Fifa10 is poor and certainly not as poor as new pes10 [/QUOTE]

PES 2010 has annoyances here and there (animations are inconsistent and some unfinished, ref not giving penalties) But underneath there's a proper game of football and a enjoyable one.

If you look past FIFA 10's animations it's a dire game!

 

[romagnoli]

You can't be convinced, no. It's obviously down to player experience, and of course what the player wants to believe. But judging by the several weeks I've spent in here, and the dozens of pages that have sprouted up since FIFA's launch, it seems like most players' experiences are that shooting is still poor, both before and after the emergency patch to fix the awful long range shooting exploit. Countless people have complained that shooting is often as weak as a pass unless you're directly facing goal; countless people have complained that headers are very weak; several people have noticed that defences don't bother stopping strikers from receiving the ball inside the area. PES never had anything even nearly as bad as being able to score 7/10 free kicks with any player on the pitch, and shooting inside the area was always worthwhile (whereas in FIFA it really isn't).

Also, shooting at 30, 45, 60 degrees of the direction you are moving is not 'one variant of goal'. It's utterly essential. It's a massive part of football - the turn and shot. If you can't see the difference between that and, say, a slightly different animation for a shot, then there's no further discussion to be had. It's like trying to teach purple how to speak French. The reason why EA have made shooting sideways mostly hopeless is because they've made it so bloody easy to receive the ball in space in the box (the defence thing covered a few pages back) and they've also made first touches utterly perfect (hit a full power long pass back to your keeper on the goalline and see if you can tell the difference between him and Ibrahimovic). If they made shooting sideways as powerful as it should be then the scorelines would be better suited to Twickenham than Wembley.

For me, and for most of the people who have posted in here over the weeks, it's not even open for debate (and I wonder why I have done, frankly - I always get sucked into these futile little debates where people deny that water is wet). It's down to EA to fix it if they aren't just talking the football sim talk, or they can just listen to the FIFA equivalents of Jimmy G Force and stagnate in their own pool of rancid, backpatting quick thrill success until PES gets it's arse back into gear.

 

[DerleiPT]

You said that ? me ? i dont think so.
Hjerpsth's what ?



I can agree only with chips - it's very bad in new fifa.

I dont know Fifa10 is poor and certainly not as poor as new pes10

PES 2010 has annoyances here and there (animations are inconsistent and some unfinished, ref not giving penalties) But underneath there's a proper game of football and a enjoyable one.

If you look past FIFA 10's animations it's a dire game![/QUOTE]

-------------

ok , pes2010 is best game ever

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/proevolutionsoccer2010

its not argument , it shows u want to be original


Romagnoli - I didnt say Fifa10 is perfect game , its just good game,thats all . Secound question is ,, What did you expect ? perfect game ? competition forces them to hard work. Where is sompetition ? crappy pes2008,2009 or poor pes2010 ? and i think you shouldnt expect perfect game until 2012 ( new xbox and ps ? ) They will not do a new engine until release time newgen consoles.

 

[romagnoli]

PES 2010 has annoyances here and there (animations are inconsistent and some unfinished, ref not giving penalties) But underneath there's a proper game of football and a enjoyable one.

If you look past FIFA 10's animations it's a dire game!

-------------

ok , pes2010 is best game ever

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/proevolutionsoccer2010

its not argument , it shows u want to be original

That's exactly what he said. PES 2010 is the best game ever. You've quoted him word for word. Thankfully when I read all those FIFA 10 reviews each and when every single one of them pointed out how MM was broken, how most of the kits are wrong in one way or another, how the gameplay is a pingpongy hell and how the defence doesn't bother covering players, I was at least able to make a balanced choice between the two.

It's funny how spending money, rather than receiving money, to play games can give you a slightly different opinion of the games in question.

Keep posting, please. With each reply you give you are discrediting yourself more and more.

 

[DerleiPT]

But i did not want to be malignant(no constructive criticism) but read his posts and he is typical fifa hater.

You spending money .. you have not played demo ? hmmm ?

 

[wan_d7]

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

 

[tc811]

For the record, DerleiPT has poor reasoning ability, so I agree with the rest that he's a joke.

 

[romagnoli]

For the record, DerleiPT has poor reasoning ability, so I agree with the rest that he's a joke.

Thanks but Derlei's keeping us well informed of this already.

But i did not want to be malignant(no constructive criticism) but read his posts and he is typical fifa hater.

You spending money .. you have not played demo ? hmmm ?

If you have been reading any of the posts of the last day or so rather than just reading 'blah blah blah' as you so eloquently put it before (nice constructive criticism there) or assuming that someone's dislike of FIFA 10 is purely down to some sort of bias, then you will have noticed us repeatedly say that the problems lie "under the surface", or that you discover the problems 'after a number of weeks of play'. This includes after a couple of weeks of owning the full game after playing the demo several times almost every day since release.

I'm very reluctant to spend another day humouring you so please make your next post worth answering, rather than yet another tired old non-discussion.

 

[brunnoce]

I can say with 100% confidence that the variety of goals you could score in PES 5 and the number of different types of goal you'd see in a ten match stretch far outstrips what you can score in FIFA 10.

Unfortnalty thats still true... but EA is getting there, FIFA10 is a lot better than 09 in this aspect... i think theyll reach that PES golden era level o variaty next year, theyre very close.

 

[beachryan]

Have to agree with the complaints about goal scoring in FIFA 10. Never have I been so excited by the prospect of a game and then so let down by its execution. Barely playing it now, might trade it in.

It's hard to put it into words, but you just know when you're going to score and when you're not. The curling finesse shot from the opposite side from a strikers better foot will almost always work. But then, you can be through, one on one and try to power it home and the keeper will more or less always pull off a time-melting reaction save. I tried shooting on manual, but it's rubbish, far too sensitive.

Dunno, sad but I just miss the magic of certain goals you'd get in PES. Where you'd never see the same thing again. Just don't get them in FIFA.

 

[Rob92]

Haha, you should just give up now DerleiPT...

You really are only embarrassing yourself by being so defensive of FIFA and doing a such a bad job of making any sorts of argument against mine and others' points.

I would continue to have a debate with someone who was capable of making a proper one back, but so far you have proven yourself incapable of doing so.

 

[drekkard]

Even though I agree with the general consensus of PES5 having slightly more variation of goals than Fifa, in pes5 it was all so scripted that I never felt I "deserved" those goals. You could take Adriano, Nedved or Gerrard and score again and again from downtown. Or you could dribble the keeper 90% of the times. That doesn't take merit to that game, specially for the balanced gameplay, but the feeling of scriptedness always annoyed me. It wasn't me at all who was doing things and that feeling kept growing more and more with every iteration of the game.

On the other hand, the problem with fifa seems to be more on the side of AI and the unbalanced gameplay rather than goal variations. It all goes down to how you play the game. I never try to repeat patterns of play, and always try to do different things, one unexpected early cross, one shot from a narrow angle, etc... and in manual settings it works quite well. The thing that detracts from the experience is the extreme difficulty to do these "original and creative" plays, but they are there, no doubt about it. I've scored really strange goals and beautifully crafted ones.

Last night I played against s33k3rgr and we scored great goals to each other, all of them unique in its way (subtle headers, dribbling the goalkeeper, long range shots, one on one, volleys...). It's the stupid unbalancing and AI of the game that seems to "force" players to end up the plays the same way. Of course, that's a big problem and needs to be addressed and turns what could have been the greatest football game ever made to a "only" good game.

As a gamer, I can overcome the shortcomings of both games, but have a lot more enjoyment with Fifa and my main concerns are (stated many times, I know) about AI, physicality, tactics... to me goal variety is there and is great, it's only the rest of the game that doesn't let it bright.

That said, there's some things they should address, like shooting in certain angles like rob says, but to me that is not as important as the things that kill the game in the midfield.

That's my two cents.

 

[DerleiPT]

Haha, you should just give up now DerleiPT...

You really are only embarrassing yourself by being so defensive of FIFA and doing a such a bad job of making any sorts of argument against mine and others' points.

I would continue to have a debate with someone who was capable of making a proper one back, but so far you have proven yourself incapable of doing so.

and vice versa

Sorry but your arguments are funny sometimes. You really are only embarrassing yourself by showing one or two examples and trying to say that this is fact , maybe only your fact ? i am not defend Fifa10 bacouse i know about crappy MM , chips and some other bigger or smaller bugs + Ea lies before release . I just want to say that some peoples expect too much or playing too much(i think both) .Online and human vs human is really good and i have a lot of fun. I've never seen that in the game ai was a demanding for longer than a few weeks and you shoudnt expect this in pes11 or fifa11.

Another thing is being ,,trendy,, and speaking in superlatives about pes 5 which is v.good game but idealization this game is funny for me.

 

[Jamezinho]

It's hard to put it into words, but you just know when you're going to score and when you're not. The curling finesse shot from the opposite side from a strikers better foot will almost always work. But then, you can be through, one on one and try to power it home and the keeper will more or less always pull off a time-melting reaction save. I tried shooting on manual, but it's rubbish, far too sensitive.

See that's where Fifa contradicts itself. The game gives you wonderful freedom to express yourself with 360 degree movement, slick and open passing, and an organic trick system, plus all the stunning animations on top. I'm mainly playing PES at the moment but I'm very envious of Fifa for it's freedom of build-up play. But, for me the game falls down when in shooting range as it's less about freedom of play and being creative, and more about knowing what you can and can't do in order to increase the chance of scoring. As Rob said, your gaming brain has to take over and your football brain has to step aside.

Dunno, sad but I just miss the magic of certain goals you'd get in PES. Where you'd never see the same thing again. Just don't get them in FIFA.

This is still the case in PES 2010. Even though it's not a great game, it still has most of the classic PES moments and my HDD is full of some stunning goals already. I can still play hopeful passes into the box and there is always a chance that a goal could result from it and I can still shoot from from the most hopeful of angles and distance and it can, and will, go in.

PES's gameplay was built on scripting and the magical goals are an example of scripting being a good thing. Of course there are plenty of examples of scripting being bad and frustrating in PES, but in my opinion all sports games need a bit of scripting to keep them fun and to provide the magic moments otherwise the game can feel a bit flat. I mean, I play a lot of NBA 2K and Madden and they both use scripting to pull off magic slamdunks and touchdowns but they are great fun and the games would be poorer without it.

Scripting in games is not always a bad thing.