FIFA 10

brunnoce said:
Most important thing for me actually...
if that is fixed the variaty of goals will be ALOT bigger.
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Indeed. PES has a huge advantage in this aspect, you rarely see goalkeepers save shots without actually touching the ball, and they have realistic reaction-times aswell as a limited reach.

What they need to correct in FIFA is:

1. Goalkeepers magically being "pulled" in the direction the ball is struck the moment it is struck, thus being able to gain an extra feet or two in reach, which can mean everyhting.

2. Physics needs to be ALOT more refined, A big percentage of shots that go to the sides are parried by the goalkeeper even though he isn't physically touching the ball. It happens several times per match usually when I play it.

3. Apart from goalkeepers being pulled, they also have ridiculous reaction times, and also their movements can reach superhuman speeds. If you take a shot from close range, they can usually get their hands up to cover their face even though a real life human would barely have time to register where the ball is going, much less protect their head.


I'd really like ot see a whole need system for goalkeeping, the current one is very scripted (certain overhand saves seem to have a 100% save percentage, if that animation is executed the goalkeeper will always be able to tip the ball over the bar. There needs to be more mistakes, more uncertainty, etc etc.
 
Trance_Allstar said:
Indeed. PES has a huge advantage in this aspect, you rarely see goalkeepers save shots without actually touching the ball, and they have realistic reaction-times aswell as a limited reach.

What they need to correct in FIFA is:

1. Goalkeepers magically being "pulled" in the direction the ball is struck the moment it is struck, thus being able to gain an extra feet or two in reach, which can mean everyhting.

2. Physics needs to be ALOT more refined, A big percentage of shots that go to the sides are parried by the goalkeeper even though he isn't physically touching the ball. It happens several times per match usually when I play it.

3. Apart from goalkeepers being pulled, they also have ridiculous reaction times, and also their movements can reach superhuman speeds. If you take a shot from close range, they can usually get their hands up to cover their face even though a real life human would barely have time to register where the ball is going, much less protect their head.


I'd really like ot see a whole need system for goalkeeping, the current one is very scripted (certain overhand saves seem to have a 100% save percentage, if that animation is executed the goalkeeper will always be able to tip the ball over the bar. There needs to be more mistakes, more uncertainty, etc etc.
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Good post

The variety of goals is a biggy for me as this takes away the feeling of "every game is different".

There are too many animations, scripted moments at the front end of the game where it really matters, resulting in a repetitive affair and an ultimate lack of long term love.

Great point about the keepers being pulled on shots, this is far more obvious when they punch it, you can see the whole motion in that instance,is on rails.

By the sounds of it they are working hard on freeing the whole thing up so I beleive this could be the greatest footy game ever.

........................hopefully:COOL:
 
Dusse said:
If they removed assisted and semi shooting a more realistic goalkeeper behavior would be possible.
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Exactly, the accuracy of assisted shots means that if the keepers were realistic you would get way too many goals.

Shooting and keepers, two of the most important things in footy games and EA have fucked up them up in every single FIFA - they've done almost everything else really well.
 
Trance_Allstar said:
I'd really like ot see a whole need system for goalkeeping, the current one is very scripted (certain overhand saves seem to have a 100% save percentage, if that animation is executed the goalkeeper will always be able to tip the ball over the bar. There needs to be more mistakes, more uncertainty, etc etc.
Click to expand...

great post man, and this last part resumes pretty much how i feel about it too...
there are some really nice save animations, but theyre so scripted and so comum that it makes them feel really cheap, wich ruins it...a spetacular save should feel great to see, making u thinkg "how tha fuck did he save that??" thats something u still get on PES6, and one of the reasons i still couldnt put it to rest...
 
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Trance_Allstar said:
I'd really like ot see a whole need system for goalkeeping, the current one is very scripted (certain overhand saves seem to have a 100% save percentage, if that animation is executed the goalkeeper will always be able to tip the ball over the bar. There needs to be more mistakes, more uncertainty, etc etc.
Click to expand...

Trance out of interest, and by all means don't share if you don't want to - what is your line of work? You seem to be a man with ideas for enhancing usability and controllability of games. Such clarity in design is sorely lacking at the higher levels of game design. Don't waste your talent! :))
 
brunnoce said:
Most important thing for me actually...
if that is fixed the variaty of goals will be ALOT bigger.
Click to expand...


fact!!!!
this and more movement around the ball for your teammates...
in fifa08 this was perfect, but in fifa09 players without the ball don´t move around the pitch... they keep your positions to much and you get forced to do the same style of play over and over...
i need the AI of your teammates be like FIFA08 again...

please EA...

no superhuman keepers and AI from your teammates like FIFA08!!!
 
Dr Force said:
Good post

The variety of goals is a biggy for me as this takes away the feeling of "every game is different".

There are too many animations, scripted moments at the front end of the game where it really matters, resulting in a repetitive affair and an ultimate lack of long term love.

Great point about the keepers being pulled on shots, this is far more obvious when they punch it, you can see the whole motion in that instance,is on rails.

By the sounds of it they are working hard on freeing the whole thing up so I beleive this could be the greatest footy game ever.

........................hopefully:COOL:
Click to expand...

brunnoce said:
great post man, and this last part resumes pretty much how i feel about it too...
there are some really nice save animations, but theyre so scripted and so comum that it makes them feel really cheap, wich ruins it...a spetacular save should feel great to see, making u thinkg "how tha fuck did he save that??" thats something u still get on PES6, and one of the reasons i still couldnt put it to rest...
Click to expand...

Cheers. :)


andish2001 said:
Trance out of interest, and by all means don't share if you don't want to - what is your line of work? You seem to be a man with ideas for enhancing usability and controllability of games. Such clarity in design is sorely lacking at the higher levels of game design. Don't waste your talent! :))
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Thanks for the kind words mate. ;)

I currently work at customer support for a large Swedish company. Though if I had to guess I'd say that most developers at EA headquarters have lots of ideas and such, but once it boils down to 1s and 0s and editing parameters in a text document, mocapping things, making things fit together, I'd bet I'd start crying due to limitations and such... ;)
 
Another thing that doesn't seem to be considered often regarding keepers are 1) Bad 'positional' mistakes and 2) Spills (or random errors)

The difference between good and bad keepers isn't only reaction time and how far they can dive, which currently is pretty much all that is different. In real life those are two of the most important differentiations between good and bad keepers... beyond making fantastic saves, it's consistency. If you watch really bad keepers, they'll come out at the wrong times (on corners etc.) and overcommit themselves at the wrong times. They'll also spill the ball more, so perhaps on a low shot that bounces right in front of them the ball could bounce away from them (neeever happens now) or maybe punch when they could catch the ball (they do this now, but there doesn't seem to be a diff between good and bad keepers) etc etc.

I think this would go a long way to making keepers more realistic and differentiated!
 
stilts1844 said:
Another thing that doesn't seem to be considered often regarding keepers are 1) Bad 'positional' mistakes and 2) Spills (or random errors)

The difference between good and bad keepers isn't only reaction time and how far they can dive, which currently is pretty much all that is different. In real life those are two of the most important differentiations between good and bad keepers... beyond making fantastic saves, it's consistency. If you watch really bad keepers, they'll come out at the wrong times (on corners etc.) and overcommit themselves at the wrong times. They'll also spill the ball more, so perhaps on a low shot that bounces right in front of them the ball could bounce away from them (neeever happens now) or maybe punch when they could catch the ball (they do this now, but there doesn't seem to be a diff between good and bad keepers) etc etc.

I think this would go a long way to making keepers more realistic and differentiated!
Click to expand...

Nicely put, it's true the keepers do tend to follow the same pattern of play, I hope the effort from EA means we will see a difference between say a Peter Schmeichel and a Roy Carrol...
 
stilts1844 said:
Another thing that doesn't seem to be considered often regarding keepers are 1) Bad 'positional' mistakes and 2) Spills (or random errors)

The difference between good and bad keepers isn't only reaction time and how far they can dive, which currently is pretty much all that is different. In real life those are two of the most important differentiations between good and bad keepers... beyond making fantastic saves, it's consistency. If you watch really bad keepers, they'll come out at the wrong times (on corners etc.) and overcommit themselves at the wrong times. They'll also spill the ball more, so perhaps on a low shot that bounces right in front of them the ball could bounce away from them (neeever happens now) or maybe punch when they could catch the ball (they do this now, but there doesn't seem to be a diff between good and bad keepers) etc etc.

I think this would go a long way to making keepers more realistic and differentiated!
Click to expand...


Yeah, you're right. I've never really thought about it, since goalkeepers as far as I know never do a "catch" animation unless they can catch it 100% guaranteed.

I hope they can merge goalkeepers with their excellent physics system, so that balls deflect realistically at all times, even when missing a catch and having the ball jump out of their hands.
 
Guess we"ll have new nets this year. Hope they react realisticly.

"Art guy from euro is on fifa this year. lighting like that AND new nets... :)"
 
I've quoted myself the comment of "Fifa10 = bigger pitch, smaller players" but does anyone actually remember reading this from an official source?
 
Placebo said:
I've quoted myself the comment of "Fifa10 = bigger pitch, smaller players" but does anyone actually remember reading this from an official source?
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What I don't get is that if they've reduced the size of the players with, what I've heard, 10%, that would make for example Petr Cech too small in relation to the goal size he is guarding (assuming they weren't complete idiots and didn't base the sizes on actual real-life measurements). So then they would have had to reduce the size of the goals aswell, and if we assume that the arenas like Old Trafford and such are based on real life examples, the players would be too small in relation to arena details like player tunnel etc.

So what is the deal here, had the pitch become bigger (and thus players are smaller in comparison), or have they both increased pitch size and made players smaller aswell?

Am I the only one who ponders these questions? :)
 
Where did you hear the players were 10% smaller? And if it is that amount, maybe the goal has also been made smaller? It always seemed to me it was too small anyways (or perhaps the players were too big already), I always intended one day to capture a screen of a specific keeper stood upright in the centre of his goal to compare against a real photo of the same keeper in a goal but never got around to it........
 
Your friend Suff said he thought the players were roughly 10% smaller after his playtest back in April.

@ Trance Allstar - I was thinking the same thing mate. Surely everything should have been made to scale in the first place then there would be no problems.
 
Scorpio said:
Guess we"ll have new nets this year. Hope they react realisticly.

"Art guy from euro is on fifa this year. lighting like that AND new nets... :)"
Click to expand...

I think this has been listed as one of the smaller improvements.

They are not that far away, its just that they seem to have the same animation for alot of the goals. I hope they can make them more flexible and show real time physics.
 
It would be nice to have a larger pitch, I also hear crosses will be heavier and faster and goals more varied... It all 'sounds' good...


Cross park passes are now generally a lot more driven - about half the time to cross the pitch. Shots have a lot more variety too.
 
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Trance_Allstar said:
Thanks for the kind words mate. ;)

I currently work at customer support for a large Swedish company. Though if I had to guess I'd say that most developers at EA headquarters have lots of ideas and such, but once it boils down to 1s and 0s and editing parameters in a text document, mocapping things, making things fit together, I'd bet I'd start crying due to limitations and such... ;)
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No problem, but you're probably right about executing the ideas, and this is probably one of the main reasons gaming has stagnated a little bit in recent times I think. Im sure there are tons of people like yourself who have all these great ideas but find that they are constrained by the development tools on hand. Time for third parties to get in on the SDK market I think! (Properly I mean in a comprehensive way to force MS and Sony to raise their game - obviously a lot of 3rd party software already exists for development but it mainly focuses on specific functions.)
 
Obviously they don't make the players smaller and leave everything else the same. If anything they made the pitch bigger and moved back the default camera a little making everything look smaller while the pitch seems pretty much the same in size.

The driven crosses sounds good, but I don't want it to end up like in the later PES versions. Harder crosses should in theory mean more risk of the cross to be miss hit (it's much easier to hit a slow/weak/backspin cross in real life). If they still have the super accuracy in the semi/assisted settings it will look like pinball like in PES.
 
Gab_ said:
Obviously they don't make the players smaller and leave everything else the same. If anything they made the pitch bigger and moved back the default camera a little making everything look smaller while the pitch seems pretty much the same in size.

The driven crosses sounds good, but I don't want it to end up like in the later PES versions. Harder crosses should in theory mean more risk of the cross to be miss hit (it's much easier to hit a slow/weak/backspin cross in real life). If they still have the super accuracy in the semi/assisted settings it will look like pinball like in PES.
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Yeah, I agree. What would make my day would be if they said "we've implemented some cool new ways to control longpasses and shots, so now you can basically achieve any kind of trajectory you want at any given time, be it slow and floaty, or driven and quick".
 
Nick Cave said:
It would be nice to have a larger pitch, I also hear crosses will be heavier and faster and goals more varied... It all 'sounds' good...


Cross park passes are now generally a lot more driven - about half the time to cross the pitch. Shots have a lot more variety too.
Click to expand...

I agree Nick as by making the pitch seem a tad larger it will give either the perception or the reality of having more time and space on the ball.

The driven crossfield balls (ala gerrard et al)has been missing for far too long in FIFA and has been criticised for the balls floaty appearance which detracts from the feeling of real world weight.

I presume shots will also have more power and putting this together with more variation should give a more rewarding experience where it matters.

The other thing that needs a bit of work is the heading, especially infront of goal. There does not seem to be alot of variety here either. I can count the number of times I have hit a powerful downward header that bounces up over the keeper and into the roof of the net on one errrrr...........finger! its happened once in 100's of games, yet flicking on from a cross is almost a given.

I love the sound of standing your opponent up and taking them on, if this has to be mastered but can be very rewarding then I think we would have reached a milestone in football games. I just hope you do not create the wonder guys like PES which become an unrealistic one man show.

Can't wait to see the 360 dribbling in action, I think it will look amazing;)
 
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