FIFA 10 360/PS3 Demo Feedback + Videos

pboreham said:
Aaarrgghhhh!

I want to love this game - I can see its so beautiful and trying to be the best football game ever, but another 5 games tonight (on Pro), still no goals scored - barely a shot.

10 games now, shots I can count on 1 hand and no goals :(

Gonna have to drop to Semi-Pro, but I find that too easy.

Such a frustrating game. I think it just doesnt suit my (poor!) skill level and I'll never be happy with Semi-Pro or Pro.

Any tips here guys? I'm really trying to play un-PES like. Not really sprinting, trying to pass it around etc.

Whats the point of the skill dribble? Do you just hold both buttons and flick the left stick (or right stick)? If its right stick, then thats gonna be impossible for me.

Christ, I'm moaning more than Davies! ;)
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not alone mate i feel your pain haha

i really enjoy the game, and like all footy games previously i always play on the hardest level, cos the satisfaction when you score is great and worth the wait....you just need longer games to perfect your skills on fifa 10...that will happen come 02/10/09
 
I see some grievances about the cpu's AI from quite few people here and i need to say this.

A perfect or a perfectly balanced AI will never be created in a game, especially a game of football. Even the real players do some silly or unbelievable stuff on the field and the producers of the game need a way to simulate those moments too. But this is a difficult job of course. The field where Fifa 10 (and Fifa 09) shines is the multiplayer matches (2v2, 3v3 .... or even 10v10) and this happens when the players play the game as it should be played. I'll explain that.

The game when played multiplayer (2v2...10v10) should be played in all manual settings from some serious and consistent manual players who know how to play safely and responsively and not to give away the ball easily. When i say play safely i mean that sometimes when a player is under heavy pressure its no shame to play a long ball or clear the ball, especially if the player happen to play in the defence.So the ability to cooperate well with your teammate is what makes the difference in the game. To pick the right formation, to apply the right strategy, to try to hold the ball as much as you can (when holding the ball i mean to have quality possetion and try to make some dangerous circumstances in your opponents area). Thats what i am talking about.


So for me AI players never will be made to behave like we want (opponents or ours). Our job is to help the AI players and make the play more easy for them.
I really want your opinion about the issues that i am talking about.
 
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Vids




Nearly scored a fantastic goal look:
http://www.easportsfootball.de/media/play/video/9192230

...and a perfect lob
http://www.easportsfootball.de/media/play/video/9191170

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some pics
742A0001_0_JPEG_SCREENSHOT_zHY.jpg


nice detail on the mic of the ref with the ea logo
742A0001_2_JPEG_SCREENSHOT_RyK.jpg


two friends
742A0001_1_JPEG_SCREENSHOT_qXc.jpg
 
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http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/9224234

Horrible goal - and I've cut out the nasty bit!

What I wanted to ask is whether the touch at the very beginning is something in FIFA 09 - and, is it the 'change of foot' thing?

It kinda looks like I've done a tiny bit of skilled dribble but this happens now in open play seemingly. I wasn't holding any trigger I don't think - maybe LT, which is just slower dribble.
 
PESV said:
You might want to try zooming the camera in. You'l be closer up on the action and your broadcast experience might also be reduced. Just a tip.
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Thats not what I'm talking about though, it's the feeling of detachment, not the actual view. I play PES on Wide Cam, always have, as far away from the action as possible, thats the way I like it, it's similar with Fifa but the whole experience just feels detached. It's hard to explain as a lot of people obviously dont feel it as well, but I know some do because I've seen them struggle to describe it as well. :)

(I was trying to give my opinions without mentioning PES, but had to here, apologies)
 
Played a few more games of this yesterday. Everything that annoyed me about FIFA09 is still there. For me, the few little touches and tweaks they've made haven't changed the fundamentals of the gameplay experience one iota. Playing against the AI is still woeful.
 
Dar said:
Thats not what I'm talking about though, it's the feeling of detachment, not the actual view. I play PES on Wide Cam, always have, as far away from the action as possible, thats the way I like it, it's similar with Fifa but the whole experience just feels detached. It's hard to explain as a lot of people obviously dont feel it as well, but I know some do because I've seen them struggle to describe it as well. :)

(I was trying to give my opinions without mentioning PES, but had to here, apologies)
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For me the feeling of detachment might stem from the fact that on all manual, you are so involved and constantly focused on the tactics, movement and such that you might not have as much time to enjoy the actual action on the pitch in the role of a normal observer.

Whenever you get a good shooting opportunity in PES, you just hold a general direction and press shot, and there isn't much else to do, so while the player is preparing to shot, you can just take a small second to anticipate the shot. In FIFA, on manual, you are never relaxed in that sense, I always tweak my aim up until the last moment of shooting. Passing on manual means that not only are you scanning the play and looking for opportunities like in PES, but you also are forced to aim very precisely and be alot more involved in that sense. In PES once you have decided to pass to someone, you just hold a general direction and press the pass button once. You get these little micropauses in PES where you have done all you can and the game finishes the particular move you want to do. In FIFA, again on manual, you never get the same pauses. For passing you can't just decide to pass to someone and then press the pass button once, you are constantly judging distance, angles, whether it is better to pass more directly at a teammate, but putting more power into it, or to pass slightly slower but infront of him and letting him run onto the ball, all the while keeping track of the movement of each defender so that none of them suddenly starts moving in a way where you have to change your plans, in which case you need to calculate a new set of circumstances all over again.

FIFA usually starts shining mpre after a few games, when my mind gets used to the manual passing and such, when my hands are managing most passes on their own and I don't have to be actively focusing on every nuance.
 
I think some people expect too much from a computer game and need to remember why they started playing PES in the beginning.

The FUN factor! Back when you played PES and fell in love with the series, it didn't have fancy AI, no fancy graphics, modes etc. But you enjoyed it for what it was and didn't look for things to nitpick and complain about.

People need to focus on playing the computer game. If you want this ultra-realistic football with perfect graphics, no floaty balls, and realistic shots ... then there's a park you can go and play on outside ;)

It's a computer game, relax and enjoy! These people who say they haven't bought a football game for years because they've been so disappointed with PES/FIFA need to have a think about why they buy games in the first place.
 
Yeah nice post Trance, but all the things you just said should, in my opinion, make you even more involved in the game. I know what you're talking about and thats half why I actually have left passing and shooting on Semi in the demo (the other half being due to the time constraints and high CPU pressure all over the pitch) but it doesn't make much difference to the actual feeling of detachment from the game.

I'm trying my best to pin point the reasoning for it, maybe trying MM again this year and actually having a team to care about and really want to do well may help in getting the feeling I'm looking for.
 
I also think a lot of old school PES players just feel detached from the game because it doesn't feel like PES. It was the same for me in the beginning when I switched sides. I didn't feel in control of the game because I didn't know how to play it and it didn't feel like PES. PES to me was how a football game should feel like.

I never bothered with PES 2008 and 2009 I only played recently. And now when I play PES it's the opposite. I feel completely detached from the game and not in control at all. And it's not because 2009 is different from for example PES 5, because I played PES 5 recently too and felt the same way. So at least for me the reason is because I'm not comfortable with the game and don't know/remember how to be in full control.
 
I really can't explain the detachment thing, all I can think about is that - and somebody has said this in the PES thread but I won't name names because I don't want to start a flame war, I'm just repeating what's been said - that in some people's hearts they want to be playing PES.

(EDIT: Gab got there first. Give it to someone who's never played PES and I bet they'd feel it, I've got a nephew who never played PES for more than a day because he hated how rigid it was and when he scores a goal in this, he feels it.)

When I score a goal I jump out of the seat, whether it's a long-range goal or not, because it's bloody hard work and it's so enjoyable against a friend especially.

I even jumped out of the seat a few times yesterday when I DIDN'T score, I was close to scoring from range and I kept saying "Christ if that had gone in!"

There has to be some explanation, games don't have souls no matter how many times people say PES has one, and it annoys me when stuff like this comes up. I didn't feel excited when I scored in FIFA 09 but there's an easy explanation - because you could beat the CPU on Legendary reasonably easily, and you could only score from certain places. If I played with a friend and they shot from outside the box, I'd go frigging MENTAL with them. "WHAT ARE YOU DOING THAT FOR, you're just wasting time, you can never score from there, the ball is like a balloon remember".

It's not a game like Max Payne where the characters have back-stories and you can "really feel the character, you can feel his pain, you just want to jump into the screen and kill all those bad guys man". It's a football game and when I score a goal, because it's realistic now - in as much as you really can score from anywhere, but not very often in my experience - I feel it.

EDIT:

Gab_ said:
I never bothered with PES 2008 and 2009 I only played recently. And now when I play PES it's the opposite. I feel completely detached from the game and not in control at all. And it's not because 2009 is different from for example PES 5, because I played PES 5 recently too and felt the same way. So at least for me the reason is because I'm not comfortable with the game and don't know/remember how to be in full control.
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I'm not one for mindless PES bashing but this isn't it, because I feel exactly the same. People can show videos of PES wonder-goals (one's been posted over and over in the PES thread recently to show how good it is) but when I play the game and everything's so stiff and robotic, it doesn't feel like football to me (and when I watch those goals I can see the stop/start movement and the "scripts" where someone pulls off a move and the ball magically pings off). It feels like some kind of electronic Subbuteo - which is what football games where years ago, but now where at the point where they're just starting to become simulations (they're not perfect yet, they never will be, but they're getting better all the time).
 
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Dar said:
Yeah nice post Trance, but all the things you just said should, in my opinion, make you even more involved in the game. I know what you're talking about and thats half why I actually have left passing and shooting on Semi in the demo (the other half being due to the time constraints and high CPU pressure all over the pitch) but it doesn't make much difference to the actual feeling of detachment from the game.

I'm trying my best to pin point the reasoning for it, maybe trying MM again this year and actually having a team to care about and really want to do well may help in getting the feeling I'm looking for.
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It can be hard to pin those things down. I went from 3 hours of FIFA10 and played some PES5 yesterday. I was surprised how little I like PES when going straight to it from FIFA10. There were more things bothering me in PES than in FIFA, which sort of helped me realize how good FIFA10 really is, seeing I've played PES5 almost daily for like 4 years now. FIFA10 still needs to fix some things, mostly the heading (they should just carbon copy the PES5 heading, and also volley, system really).
 
Gab_ said:
I also think a lot of old school PES players just feel detached from the game because it doesn't feel like PES. It was the same for me in the beginning when I switched sides. I didn't feel in control of the game because I didn't know how to play it and it didn't feel like PES. PES to me was how a football game should feel like.
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Cant agree with you there I'm afraid. I've spent 100 times longer playing FIFA than PES in the last 2 years and was one of the people who gave FIFA08 a chance straight off the bat due to the changes/advancements they appeared to have made back then.
So to say this is the beginning feeling of a switchover is way off the mark.

I am actually genuinely looking forward to the full game release and getting playing it properly, but I'm just feeling that come November/December, I'll not be playing it much anymore (again). Especially with the other titles coming out towards the end of this year, now thats something I'm not used to from the old days, where you'd always go back to PES/WE until the next one came out (apart from 4 :R1 ).
 
Chris Davies said:
EDIT:


I'm not one for mindless PES bashing but this isn't it, because I feel exactly the same. People can show videos of PES wonder-goals (one's been posted over and over in the PES thread recently to show how good it is) but when I play the game and everything's so stiff and robotic, it doesn't feel like football to me (and when I watch those goals I can see the stop/start movement and the "scripts" where someone pulls off a move and the ball magically pings off). It feels like some kind of electronic Subbuteo - which is what football games where years ago, but now where at the point where they're just starting to become simulations (they're not perfect yet, they never will be, but they're getting better all the time).
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Yeah funny thing is Chris, I agree with you. Now maybe it's because I spent all too long having to sift through peoples "wonder" goals back in the day for the site, but the wonder goals people score in PES and even in FIFA and are shown here, aren't that special to me. Now the keeper bugs we're seeing here dont help some of them here, but PES in the last couple of years has been shown up to be rigid and robotic and is why I've not played it as much, if nearly at all. I love the fluidity Fifa gives of player movement and even the passing etc...
Thats why I'm not actually trying to just be negative here, but just expressing my views. The worst thing I can find (for now) with the playability of Fifa is the heading system, it's terrible. The other stuff I put in my bad list isn't Fifa10 specific.

Trance_Allstar said:
It can be hard to pin those things down. I went from 3 hours of FIFA10 and played some PES5 yesterday. I was surprised how little I like PES when going straight to it from FIFA10. There were more things bothering me in PES than in FIFA, which sort of helped me realize how good FIFA10 really is, seeing I've played PES5 almost daily for like 4 years now. FIFA10 still needs to fix some things, mostly the heading (they should just carbon copy the PES5 heading, and also volley, system really).
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As said above also, I agree with you here. Going straight from one to the other is never going to end well if you ask me. :) Fifa's fluidity really shows up PES's recent robotic nature. Now thats not new in PES, but it's all the more highlighted recently since Fifa has managed to mask it and smooth it out, even before all the 360 stuff. I also agree with the heading, it annoys me to no end, especially as the new collision system works so well on the ground, it just falls to pieces once the ball is in the air.
 
Dar said:
Cant agree with you there I'm afraid. I've spent 100 times longer playing FIFA than PES in the last 2 years and was one of the people who gave FIFA08 a chance straight off the bat due to the changes/advancements they appeared to have made back then.
So to say this is the beginning feeling of a switchover is way off the mark.
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Yeah it wasn't specifically aimed at you, more a general observation from my own experience.

Just like when people come in and say FIFA 10 is just like 09. Anyone that has played it a lot knows this is not true. And it will be the same with PES 2010. People that have hammered 2009 will think there are a lot of difference and people like me will probably see no difference at all.

In the end it just comes down to what you like and what you personally see as entertaining.
 
I think someone said the trick was to hold down the shoot button so it loads up and then press down pass button too.
 
Jamezinho said:
They play through Xavi for a reason. Because he is probably the best playmaker in the world with a fantastic eye for a killer pass and his pass completion rate is out of this world.

Pretty good for a talented bystander. He would slot into the first 11 of any team in the world.
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Of course they do, you just pretty much repeated part of my post if you bothered to read it. I never said he was crap - far from it. All i said was that I would prefer a player who can win the ball and play 80% of the balls Xavi could - which i believe Essien can.

I was never bashing Xavi, simply saying I prefer Essien's style of play and think his influence on a match is far greater beyond threading the game-winning ball and creating goal scoring opportunities. There is more to football than that.

I agree he would slot into the first 11 of any team. His influence on that team though, for mine, depends alot on those that play around him. Essien's influence would IMO be uniform across any team because he is his own player - not just a link-man.

That's all I'll say on the matter because we've taken up alot of demo discussion space with this argument. If you want to argue your case more, PM me. I won't change my tune though and think I've made my real position (not Xavi = shit and Essien = god as some seem to have picked up) known so I don't have alot more to say.
 
Dar said:
Thats not what I'm talking about though, it's the feeling of detachment, not the actual view. I play PES on Wide Cam, always have, as far away from the action as possible, thats the way I like it, it's similar with Fifa but the whole experience just feels detached. It's hard to explain as a lot of people obviously dont feel it as well, but I know some do because I've seen them struggle to describe it as well. :)

(I was trying to give my opinions without mentioning PES, but had to here, apologies)
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I feel exactly the same but it's difficult to put into words exactly what it is that makes me feel detached from the playing experience in Fifa. I play Fifa a lot - probably ten times more than PES since Fifa 08 came out - I enjoy it, I'm always impressed by it as a technical achievement, but it has always lacked that 'one more go' feeling and Fifa 10 feels no different to me.

I've been hammering the demo, trying to see the things you guys are seeing. After playing Fifa 09 to death there's no adjustment from PES needed here. To me it still feels too similar to Fifa 09. I guess the inherent problems I have with the Fifa series are still there for me, such as the lightweight, floaty feel to the gameplay.

I'm not trying to stir anything up here, just giving my opinion after a few more days play of the demo. I will keep playing to see if Fifa 10 can win me over because I really want to love it.
 
Jamezinho i think a major part of the 'samey' feeling is the fact that the AI are truly awful. They make for a repetitive, boring and frustrating match and never change the way they play.

I think also, that as someone said a while ago in this thread, while FIFA has great animations, they are executed at the wrong time, and the satisfaction from scoring a goal can so often depend on the suitability of the animation used and how appropriate it was.

I used to play PES 'one more time' purely to try and score that ultimate goal - there was one particular volley animation that hardly ever executed but would ensure good contact.

There is nothing like that in FIFA - its almost TOO accessible if you get my drift.
 
Dar said:
And now, to the not so good...

Aerial battles. Lifeless. I've stopped counting the amount of times I've had a corner/free kick high up the pitch and the opposition keeper has cought it, just to launch it long where one of my CB's is standing waiting right under it uncontested and even a near full power bar results in a non jumped, limp header that travels maybe 10 yards back up the pitch. In fact sometimes they even chest the ball for some reason, whats that about?! Contested headers are even worse, how many times can both players go for the ball and miss it with their heads, resulting in it bouncing off their upper bodies somewhere and bobbling away somewhere (unscripted though, which is quite nice :P).
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I'm still resisting putting the demo back on but having fun reading through the posts in here, this is a worry as it seems a step back wards even from 09 and I can't see it altering much prior to release, I always hate the no jump and almost auto decide as to who was winning the header, also the lack of effort made by anyone in midfield to win headers in 09.

This and the fact every cleared ball went straight to a player, 99.9% of the time an opposing player; can anyone tell me if this has changed, this was a big part of the game not feeling as if the ball was truly free, it never ran free into an open space...
 
Nick Cave said:
I'm still resisting putting the demo back on but having fun reading through the posts in here, this is a worry as it seems a step back wards even from 09 and I can't see it altering much prior to release, I always hate the no jump and almost auto decide as to who was winning the header, also the lack of effort made by anyone in midfield to win headers in 09.

This and the fact every cleared ball went straight to a player, 99.9% of the time an opposing player; can anyone tell me if this has changed, this was a big part of the game not feeling as if the ball was truly free, it never ran free into an open space...
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Just man up and play the demo!

I don't think the heading is nearly as bad as Dar is making out. I do wish the ball would travel further, but I find I get decent distance if I use lob pass to head the ball rather than shoot/clearance.

It's up to you to win an aerial battle; if you don't get a clean contact on the ball then you haven't positioned your player properly. Simple as that. No excuses. I always find that if I've jumped under the ball then it's because I was too eager to get to the ball ahead of the opponent. I've never missed the ball just for the sake of it.
 
Some observations about the gameplay:

- Seems that the aerial barge button has been removed, so you have only to move to get the better position. Anyway, the CPU consistenyl wins most of the crucial aerial battles. There's something to improve here, as many said. Or anyone found a way to really barge the position and push the opponent?

- Long passing depends a LOT on the player stats AND the context, balance and speed of the passer. I've managed to do zippinf driven long passes, floating and normal ones. Still investigating this. But long passing is just great because you have to be damn good at it to perform it well.

- How great are trapping movements with bouncing balls? I'm marvelled at how good players can control and go on with an incoming bouncing/long ball without loosing much speed. I've have many header controls and subtle touches to control these kind of balls, even touching the ball to a controlled bounce ahead. Great!

- I only play in Professional, I don't have fun playing world class because the stupid infinite pression and cheats of the cpu kill the experience. Plus, you can't really hold the ball properly wich leads to play only direct or ping-pongey football in my opinion. In Professional I have the time to see passes and perform incredibly rich team moves. Loving it right now.

- About the strength > skill debate I started some pages ago: I've improved massively in my dribbling and slow movements, and now I'm really able to dominate the midfield as I like. I still find strength overacted and would love it to be tuned down a little. The next point is also related to this.

- Individuality is quite good; my main concern is that players are generally too good at moving with the ball. Even if there's a massive difference between Messi and Molinaro, there should be more irregularities in poor skilled players. Chicago players, for example, are still too good a trunning with the ball and changing directions. They should spill the ball a little when trying difficult turns or running to much with the ball. Or when passing (as trance suggested) there should be an incresing difficulty in a streak of first time passes.

- Finesse shot is really too effective. Not that you score every time, but every time you pull a very good shot. Even for skilled players, most of the times the shot should go wide or missing a little strength as in real life.

- Finally, my main concern is still there, tactical stiffness. Players mantain too much their position. I'm not saying Ibrahimovic should go to the wing. I'm saying Ibrahimovic is ALWAYS some meters before the CB and able to receive. There is no fight for the position between players. In real life, one of the things that occurs more often is that a players receive with the defenders sticked to him and already pushing him. That hardly happens here. That's also the reason why there are so little interceptions / anticipations, because players are somehow "always" in the same positions between them. Don't know if I'm being too clear, but it wouldn't be so difficult to have more "randomness" in the positions of players, and more awareness of defenders to close spaces.

- Related to the previous post, player runs, on the other hand, have improved a lot, I'm finding incredible moves and smart runs that open spaces One of the videos below shows a great and smart run of Iniesta that creates space for Henry to end the play.

Finally, some videos to entertain you. I'm not posting great goals or plays, but some videos to illustrate some things I like / dislike.

Video #1: TRAPPING / CONTROLLING THE BALL
Great pass from Alves (it's difficult to manual pass this, but so gratifying...). GREAT first control of the ball by Messi. Never seen such fluidity in a running footballer in a game before. The subtle touch to gain control of the bouncing goal is genius. And finally good lob to finish the play.
http://www.easportsfootball.co.uk/media/play/video/9225650

Video #2: SMART RUNS
Iniesta does a great move inside to let Henry alone to score in a fast-break.
http://www.easportsfootball.co.uk/media/play/video/9222742

Video #3: FINAL THIRD ACTION
Here I post something you would hardly see in Fifa 09, a header goal contesting the keeper in a early cross.
http://www.easportsfootball.co.uk/media/play/video/9200630

Video #4: FINESSE SHOT
I found them too easy with players like Xavi or Messi. I've scored this kind of goals many times. I would prefer this shots to be tuned down a little.
http://www.easportsfootball.co.uk/media/play/video/9199265

Overall, deifnitely a great step forward for the series, loving it so far for the impressive controls. EA has improved almost all of the most critical flaws of the game in one single year. They work hard and it shows. Let's hope the final build irons out a little my nuances with the demo.
 
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romagnoli said:
Just man up and play the demo!
I don't think the heading is nearly as bad as Dar is making out. I do wish the ball would travel further, but I find I get decent distance if I use lob pass to head the ball rather than shoot/clearance.

It's up to you to win an aerial battle; if you don't get a clean contact on the ball then you haven't positioned your player properly. Simple as that. No excuses. I always find that if I've jumped under the ball then it's because I was too eager to get to the ball ahead of the opponent. I've never missed the ball just for the sake of it.
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drekkard said:
Some observations about the gameplay:

- Seems that the aerial barge button has been removed, so you have only to move to get the better position. Anyway, the CPU consistenyl wins most of the crucial aerial battles. There's something to improve here, as many said. Or anyone found a way to really barge the position and push the opponent?
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:D Looks like I'll have to ;), the heading issue seems to be there... :THINK:
 
Jamezinho said:
They play through Xavi for a reason. Because he is probably the best playmaker in the world with a fantastic eye for a killer pass and his pass completion rate is out of this world.

Pretty good for a talented bystander. He would slot into the first 11 of any team in the world.
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Anyone who knows anything about footy (and probably 95% of barca fans) will tell you Iniesta is a better player in every regard.

Agree with your opinions of the demo though, spot on there.
 
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