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FIFA 09 PS3/360 Discussion Thread

Placebo I have to disagree with your hatred of manual shooting. A guy a few pages back, (sorry I forget who it was), said that having shooting on assisted doesn't always mean your shots go on target, or always go in. It's not just a case of press shoot and you get a goal. You still have to get into the shooting position, and create the chances etc. And I'd also like to say I think assisted shooting is more realistic - In real life if a striker has time and space from 15 yards out, they will hit the target 8 times out of 10, and probably score 5 times out of 10. With assisted that happens, but when you're on semi, you're lucky to even get a shot on target 4 times out of 10.

Just my two pennies worth :)).
 
Tim7 said:
Placebo I have to disagree with your hatred of manual shooting. A guy a few pages back, (sorry I forget who it was), said that having shooting on assisted doesn't always mean your shots go on target, or always go in. It's not just a case of press shoot and you get a goal. You still have to get into the shooting position, and create the chances etc. And I'd also like to say I think assisted shooting is more realistic - In real life if a striker has time and space from 15 yards out, they will hit the target 8 times out of 10, and probably score 5 times out of 10. With assisted that happens, but when you're on semi, you're lucky to even get a shot on target 4 times out of 10.

Just my two pennies worth :)).
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1. I don't have a hatred for it.
2. It was Chris Davies.
3. From 15 yards out double tap shooting on semi hits the target 8/10.

That is all.
 
Trance_Allstar said:
Well, I'm not entirely sure what you refer to with using the archery target analogy. My understanding of how FIFA's targeting works is really quite basic.


L33T paint illustration (For "SEMI" shooting):

http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fifaaimingsemiao9.jpg
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I won't expand my archery target analogy further, as I tested it out and it doesn't work. Your diagram also doesn't match what I see on-screen. Most of the outer lines are outright misses; only the inner cluster of lines are on-target, and they're so minutely outside of the neutral zone that they barely trouble the keeper.

So far the best explanation for what I've seen on-screen is my Topspin3-style analogy, where the duration of your press in the direction determines the accuracy, along with the usual other factors (player stats, position, defensive pressure, etc). Even this is unsatisfactory and produces variable results, but then so does everything else...
 
Placebo said:
1. I don't have a hatred for it.
2. It was Chris Davies.
3. From 15 yards out double tap shooting on semi hits the target 8/10.

That is all.
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1. Fair enough
2. Blimey, was it!?
3. I don't wanna be scoring pee rollers all the time :((.
 
Placebo said:
1. I don't have a hatred for it.
2. It was Chris Davies.
3. From 15 yards out double tap shooting on semi hits the target 8/10.

That is all.
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Double tap?

are you sure that's not just your names effect like the right analogue for curl becuase as far as i can see you can only make the shooting bar go up once?
 
Shooting on semi is brilliant - just takes a hell of a long time in the arena to get used to. Persist through - its been well documented already that this game has a small period after the initial amazement that is leaving alot of people frustrated, followed by the game turning amazing again. I suspect those complaining are very much stuck in the 2nd stage, like my brother. He just cant get the hang of it and really isnt having fun - a stage i was in last week. Eventually, you'll break through - all of a sudden, my manual passes were going everywhere i wanted, my shooting on semi is on target 8/10 or 9/10 (i am SUPER accurate :D), im seeing things in terms of runs i never saw in 08 and can win just about every header - against human or AI.

Dont ask me why the game has this 3-stage "getting used to" period - i was skeptical but having experienced it first hand, it really is there. For all those finding 09 both difficult and frustrating, PERSIST. Just play, over and over, and it will turn good eventually.

My current gripe is that the AI still do circus circles as poorly as ever, whether i defend by pressing or my preferred method of jockeying (which btw, completely throws every human player ive encountered. No-one knows how to attack against a defender sitting off him and not charging i). Super frustrating because it means that despite me having 9 shots vs AI's 3, winning 2-0, the possession stat is also 40-60 or worse for me.
 
Coopz said:
Double tap?

are you sure that's not just your names effect like the right analogue for curl becuase as far as i can see you can only make the shooting bar go up once?
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Double-tapping just means that you stop the power bar at a small enough "charge" to dispatch a low shot that the keeper will have trouble with - it's not a secret button press or anything, it just means that you won't accidentally sky the shot like I always do, because you're tapping the button and letting go as fast as you can (in order to get the second press in). You could just tap it once, quickly, but then you're more likely to hold onto it slightly too long.

Placebo might disagree with me there but that's certainly how I see it. ;)
 
Chris Bauer said:
Double-tapping just means that you stop the power bar at a small enough "charge" to dispatch a low shot that the keeper will have trouble with - it's not a secret button press or anything, it just means that you won't accidentally sky the shot like I always do, because you're tapping the button and letting go as fast as you can (in order to get the second press in). You could just tap it once, quickly, but then you're more likely to hold onto it slightly too long.

Placebo might disagree with me there but that's certainly how I see it. ;)
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No that's almost certainly how it is, if I try to do a quick tap (especially with poor lower league players) it still ends up too much and goes skyward, doing a double tap forces a very short press of the shoot button :)

It doesn't always force a low shot either, I've scored goals in off the crossbar using the double tap shooting technique, it's so successful at anything less than 18 yards I'd consider it almost an exploit, I'd say it's 70/30 for one on ones in favour of the attacker which puts it ahead of finesse and rounding the keeper in Fifa09 now.
 
Tim7 said:
Placebo I have to disagree with your hatred of manual shooting. A guy a few pages back, (sorry I forget who it was), said that having shooting on assisted doesn't always mean your shots go on target, or always go in. It's not just a case of press shoot and you get a goal. You still have to get into the shooting position, and create the chances etc. And I'd also like to say I think assisted shooting is more realistic - In real life if a striker has time and space from 15 yards out, they will hit the target 8 times out of 10, and probably score 5 times out of 10. With assisted that happens, but when you're on semi, you're lucky to even get a shot on target 4 times out of 10.

Just my two pennies worth :)).
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what bugs me with assisted shooting is that one on one situations with the keeper is almost an automatc goal...players(whatever player) never and i mean never miss the target...thats not realisitc to me, ive seen plenty of strikers shooting inches away or a bit more in real life on that situation...
also, i think its just too easy to shoot on target...if u master the power bar, every shoot will be on goal. the only way to miss the target with the assisted shooting is by overpowering it, there is no missdirection(or barely none) this bugs me a lot, cause now i mastered the power bar, so i would end up games having 14 shoots on target, for 12 amazing, but common, GK saves and maybe 2 goals...
on semi, the spetacular saves are cut down a lot...which makes u go WOW when u see a great save, instead of thinking "again?!?!"

than again, semi and manual shooting can be very frustating in the begining of the learning process, and i think thats the main reason people give up on it...

after u learn , the freedom of targeting u have is just amazing, u start seeing balls hit anywhere , its amazing..totally unscripted.
 
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Can't say I've noticed any problems with semi-shooting either :CONF:

Assisted shooting is a load of crap though, what's the point? It basically says you can't aim yourself so you really do need the help of the CPU to get it in. If you use assisted shooting, you can't ever really complain about AI cheats because you're having to use a cheat to score yourself.
 
DagsJT said:
Can't say I've noticed any problems with semi-shooting either :CONF:

Assisted shooting is a load of crap though, what's the point? It basically says you can't aim yourself so you really do need the help of the CPU to get it in. If you use assisted shooting, you can't ever really complain about AI cheats because you're having to use a cheat to score yourself.
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i think assisted shooting is only "valid" for people that MUST use the d-pad...
on the analog, i just think its a waste to use it since u gonna be restrained to a lot fewer shooting possibilities compared to analog+semi/manual, just my opinion....
 
I won't use assisted online but do me a favour, play on semi controls, as Tranmere against Huddersfield (both in the same league) on world class, and tell me that you're not frustrated as fuck after five minutes at how they keep pushing you off the ball, pressing for 90 minutes without getting tired, and scoring goals that you can do nothing about (pinging the ball around you like Premier League players, you can't get near them). Plus, notice how your passes are underhit and intercepted all of the time, and if they're not going to be intercepted, the game will delay your reactions enough for the CPU to grab it. If I can equal that up a bit, then fuck yes, I'm going to.

And when I say "Tranmere v Huddersfield" make sure that's the game you play, because if you play Liverpool v Everton or whatever, it's a TOTALLY different game. They have footballers who can actually play football, Tranmere don't. But neither do the other League One teams, yet they play like heroes.

I only switched to fully assisted in desperation, not thinking it would do anything, and now I've gone from 0-1 0-1 0-1 0-0 0-1 (0W 1D 4L) to 2-0 0-3 1-2 2-1 0-0 (2W 1D 2L). A lot more realistic and a lot less frustrating.

Now if I played Liverpool v Everton with all-assisted it would be stupid, but playing in the lower leagues, I have to - otherwise every game is the same frustrating horrible game. I'm convinced it even changes the AI of the opposition a little bit.

Online though, obviously, it's different. I'd feel like a scumbag using assisted-everything online.

(If you can get used to playing on all-manual though I'm sure that's a better game all-round - I just can't get used to it though, I've tried and I'm not accurate enough to do anything, it would take me months of practice and that's the point where I have to say "it's only a game". I want to have fun today, not in three months.)
 
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manual equals a better game quite simply. better response times, and it is all more organic in terms of deflections, targeting etc.
 
DagsJT said:
Can't say I've noticed any problems with semi-shooting either :CONF:

Assisted shooting is a load of crap though, what's the point? It basically says you can't aim yourself so you really do need the help of the CPU to get it in. If you use assisted shooting, you can't ever really complain about AI cheats because you're having to use a cheat to score yourself.
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Hows it a cheat?

its basically PES's shooting and nobody moaned about the shooting in that back in the day
 
Chris Bauer said:
I won't use assisted online but do me a favour, play on semi controls, as Tranmere against Huddersfield (both in the same league) on world class, and tell me that you're not frustrated as fuck after five minutes at how they keep pushing you off the ball, pressing for 90 minutes without getting tired, and scoring goals that you can do nothing about (pinging the ball around you like Premier League players, you can't get near them). Plus, notice how your passes are underhit and intercepted all of the time, and if they're not going to be intercepted, the game will delay your reactions enough for the CPU to grab it.

And when I say "Tranmere v Huddersfield" make sure that's the game you play, because if you play Liverpool v Everton or whatever, it's a TOTALLY different game. They have footballers who can actually play football, Tranmere don't. But neither do the other League One teams, yet they play like heroes.

I only switched to fully assisted in desperation, not thinking it would do anything, and now I've gone from 0-1 0-1 0-1 0-0 0-1 (0W 1D 4L) to 2-0 0-3 1-2 2-1 0-0 (2W 1D 2L). A lot more realistic and a lot less frustrating.

Now if I played Liverpool v Everton with all-assisted it would be stupid, but playing in the lower leagues, I have to - otherwise every game is the same frustrating horrible game. I'm convinced it even changes the AI of the opposition a little bit.

(If you can get used to playing on all-manual though I'm sure that's a better game on all difficulty levels - I just can't get used to it though, I've tried and I'm not accurate enough to do anything)
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How many stars are Tranmere? Playing as Las Palmas (2 1/2 stars), after three games, totalling 30 mins, I'm perfectly happy with the passing and shooting on semi :))
 
Coopz said:
Hows it a cheat?

its basically PES's shooting and nobody moaned about the shooting in that back in the day
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Because you have an option to use manual shooting and have the ball actually go where you want. But instead you're not even using semi for a BIT of help, you have to use assisted for a ton of help to get the ball on target.
 
DagsJT said:
How many stars are Tranmere? Playing as Las Palmas (2 1/2 stars), after three games, totalling 30 mins, I'm perfectly happy with the passing and shooting on semi :))
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Same, 2.5 stars - fair enough, if you're playing on world class then perhaps I'm just shite at the game... Or perhaps the style of play is different because English teams are a lot more physical, but it's too exaggerated. All I know is that on world class I couldn't play as Tranmere with semi passing - semi shooting I could score with, but semi passing just sees everything intercepted and response times delayed.
 
It could be due to a different style to be honest. But then I'd expect to get more time on the ball from a Spanish team than an English team, who I would expect to clatter me.

I'll try the Tranmere game later and let you know if it's any different.
 
DagsJT said:
Because you have an option to use manual shooting and have the ball actually go where you want. But instead you're not even using semi for a BIT of help, you have to use assisted for a ton of help to get the ball on target.
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So almost everyone who plays FIFA is cheating then as assisted are the default settings? :LOL:
 
Keith Houchen said:
I won't expand my archery target analogy further, as I tested it out and it doesn't work. Your diagram also doesn't match what I see on-screen. Most of the outer lines are outright misses; only the inner cluster of lines are on-target, and they're so minutely outside of the neutral zone that they barely trouble the keeper.

So far the best explanation for what I've seen on-screen is my Topspin3-style analogy, where the duration of your press in the direction determines the accuracy, along with the usual other factors (player stats, position, defensive pressure, etc). Even this is unsatisfactory and produces variable results, but then so does everything else...
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Well, my illustration isn't "to scale", so to speak. I was just illustrating the general idea.

Easiest thing to show how it works is to just go to the arena with a very skilled star (ronnie, Ibra, you name it).

Run with teh player and position yourself dead center from goal, just 2-3 meters outside the penalty area.

Then strike finesse shots, and vary the angle (from center) that you lean the analog stick. You will find that there is a high level of consistency from strike to strike, and you will quickly be able to approximate how far to the sides to push the analog stick for the ball to go where you want it to. I generally find that about 45 degrees to the sides (left or right) is by or just outside the post, atleast that is the approximation I can make without owning the game.

Again, this is Semi and not Manual shooting, just making sure. My shots always end up where I want them to, when I do it in the arena, standing still just outside the penalty area dead center in front of the goal.
 
I'd agree with that yep. I really don't see the point in assisted controls. I'm SURE you slated assisted controls during FIFA 08 too, Tim. In fact I'm positive you did. Funny how you're defending it now though, it's not "Assisted Controls Sponsored By Apple" you know ;))

Assisted shooting directs your shot for you, what's the point? Someone said earlier, it's like playing a FPS game with an aimbot. It hardly uses any skill and lets the AI do most of the work for you. Great if you want to play an interactive demo I guess ;))
 
The most critical problem I see in the game is the same as Cammey.

Professional difficulty is great and produces the most realistic simulation of footbal I've played. But it's a bit too easy to creat chances, specially on the counter.

World class: It produces a more fustrating experience. To win you have to change the style of play and loose a bit the simulation feeling. The cheats are absurdly implemented, as last year, and make for an irritating experience all the way.

As I see it, you have to play Professional with everything set to manual and try to enjoy the experience, because World Calss turns the game into the same scripted-oriented patterns we've played the last 5 years.

What do really shock me is how can they produce such a beauty and fail to adjust the difficulty levels (and cheat implementations) in such a blatant way. If professional is 3 and World Class is 4, we all would want to play in 3.5 difficulty. Can't understand how they don't see it specially after Fifa 08 having the exact same problem...

Chris, to enjoy the game, simply play Professional and put everything tyo manual and play slow build up as you want, that's the way I can really enjoy playing 1 hour every day, because World Class ends up infuriating me. Having the CPU modify your decisions in order to balance the game is something I expected to forget in next-gen. I was so naïf...

(Even NBA2K9 has the same problem, but at least they put in a slider that you can adjust to find your perfect balance. Learn about it EA).
 
drekkard said:
World class: It produces a more fustrating experience. To win you have to change the style of play and loose a bit the simulation feeling. The cheats are absurdly implemented, as last year, and make for an irritating experience all the way.
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Could you tell me more details about how yuo have to change the syle of play and what cheats are implemented?
 
my friends are still getting it! just proof that fifa will never have a chance with a hardcore pro evo fan. the demo was awful (and admittedly so by many of my pro evo playing mates).
 
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