FIFA 09 PS3/360 Discussion Thread

True. Adds to the authenticity as well as making the skipping of replays easier. I just wish EA would get a Sky Sports license so we could see some other logo for a change...!

Something I really would like to see is club logos flashing across the screen, i.e. if Torres has a shot, just before the replay starts, the Liverpool logo shoots across with a screen-wipe. It does this in PES2008, but only with the league logo - although saying that, that would be a good enough start. It would just add a further touch of authenticity.
 
Well, I finally got to play the demo on 360, and for a couple of hours no less.


To be honest, I wasn't terribly impressed. It is definitely better than FIFA08 and Euro08. I think playing the AI, especially on the higher difficulties, is not a good showcase for the game.



For me, while the game is realistic and all, there are constantly little things that take me out of the experience. I almost only notice the gameplay and physics, so tactics etc isn't an issue for me.



- I don't like the animations for running and dribbling, or should I say the "style" of the animations. Players move with too much urgency for me, even when holding LT (slow dribble, trickstick activator). And they don't keep the ball close enough to their bodies than I would want, and so you can't really do quick movements and direction changes. Usually it is ballmove-step-step-ballmove-step-step etc. So far nothing tops the R2 dribbling in PES2008 for me, when it comes to close control and immaculate directional changing. Not sure if anyone agrees with me, but the way PES20008's R2 dribbling mode is animated is almost perfect when it comes to just moving a ball around.

Also the problem of "urgency" in the way the players move could be helped by using the tilt angle of the analog stick to control the pace of the player. I recently noticed that in NHL08, if you are skating for example to take a penalty, and only push the analog stick halfway forward, the player has a much more slow and relaxed skating appearance. It really does so much to give some dynamic range to the movements. The reason I discovered it was that when I took penalties, when you just skate with the stick fully pushed in, the player reaches the goal too quickly, and you have no time to perform some drag moves to fool the keeper. So I just tried pushing the analog stick lightly, and the player responded in the way I wanted. Definitely should be used more. Also NHL08 is analog in directionality I think.


- The AI still reacts instantly to certain things. For example if I feint going to the right (LT + tap trickstick to the side of the player), and then move to the left, if a defender is in front of me, the millisecond my player touches the ball to 45 degrees left to past the side of the defender the defender will start moving to intercept the ball (like stick out a foot into the perfect place to intercept the ball, even though my player has touched the ball just an animation frame earlier. It was in Euro08 aswell. I don't see why it should be so hard to force a hard delay into the reactions of the AI players, that would correspond to the reaction times of humans.
Obviously this is AI so it's not really gameplay per se, but I don't like it at all.


- Shooting. Too much backspin for my liking. By that I mean, the backspin shots aren't really mixed with "normal" nonspinning shots. You constantly have rising shots that go over.
Obviously, if they did "mix" the shot-types more, it would mean that it would be very hard to predict when the player does a backspin shot and a more normal shot. In real life, you can do both just depending on how you shape the foot at the moment of impact, and what angle you give the foot. Still, right now it seems like they've just substituted the constant lobby-type shots from FIFA08 for constant shots with backspin. I would have liked to see a shotsystem that was alot more mixed and realistic. Balls constantly "float", which has been complained about previously I think. There's nothing wrong with it from a physics standpoint. Given alot of backspin, the ball will behave like in FIFA09, it will climb on the air and resist gravity alot more, thus seeming alot "lighter" in weight if you didn't notice how it spins. But it is wrong to have for almost every shot.


- Supercancel. Still takes a second to respond, and it is really clunky. In PES, it could be used just an instant before you receive a pass, just to shift the player in a very subtle way, which could make him radically change the way he received the ball (from trapping stationary to starting to move and thus trapping it in a distance). This definitely needs to get some work, I see no reason why I couldn't get complete control of the player movement the instant I press Cancel. The delay of a second just seems there for no apparent reason.


- Heading is really nice, players basically seem to jump when you press the button, so if you press to early, your player will already have landed once the ball reaches you.


- Goalkeepers. Not superhuman a la Euro08 anymore. Still some niggles left, particularly when the keeper could just stick and arm out to save a shot, yet opts for a really longwinded jump save, where the ball goes in at his armpit, as his arm is extended about 30-40 cm too far.
But definitely better.


- Why is the "Lane-Change" trick still bound to holding the trickstick to the side for a moment? It's a simple sole drag to the side, and it is only useful when it is really responsive, since you'd mainly want to use it in a very timed manner, just as a defender sticks his leg out or such. As it is now, you have to hold the trickstick to the side for a moment, and the delay usually gets worse when you are in a match and running, where the player sometimes waits 2-3 steps before doing it, when he really should have been able to do it almost instantly when you pressed it.



- Another thing about the general dribbling/movements. Why is there no "sidestep" move a la PES? In PES5 the sidestep was automatic when you pressed 90 degrees to the side of your player. In PES6 and 2008 (which had a better system) you held R2 and pressed to the side to have the player move to the side but still facing in the same direction as before.

FIFA08 had a really clunky system where you could hold LT + RT, and have the player move while facing the goal. But it was very unresponsive and unprecise and "big" in the movements, so it wasn't useful in most situations.



- You can trap a ball "dead", and have the player stop, when receiving a ball by holding either RT (trap whilst facing the same direction as before) or LB (trap and simultaneously turn to face the goal).
Why not just simplify the system, and have LB being the "trap" button, like in PES? That way the RT trap function (trap and face the same direction as before receiving the ball) would be performed by simply holding LB and pressing the direction you want to turn on the analog stick.

Also, the time it takes from trapping with RT or LB, to when you can move after, needs to be shortened alot. As it is now, the player needs to come to a complete halt after the trap and move, and he is completely vulnerable. In real life, the player would be able to receive the ball as he is turning his body, and immediately move the ball in a direction. Since he is trapping the ball with his foot, the ball is already on his foot, and he would be free to manipulate the ball with the foot even before he lands with his other foot (if he has done a little jump or spin to trap and turn himself in a certain durection), and perhaps flick the ball in a direction to avoid a defender even as he is in the air just after the trap. It's really clunky as it is now, and I really don't even want to use the trap buttons in tight spaces, where they should be the most useful to control receiving passes in tight spaces. There's just an unneccesary moment where the player is unresponsive when he really shouldn't be.



- Receiving a pass with the Right Analog Stick to flick it in a direction needs fixing. The ball sometimes gets a huge boost of speed, a reaction that isn't reflected in the force the player uses when he touches the ball), and it also stops abruptly after a few meters, like it has tons of backspin and suddenly grips the grass.



- Penalties really could be alot more fun than they are. The goalkeeper is extremely stiff to move on the line, you tap the RAS once in a direction and he keeps moving for what seems like an eternity. Also where are the "hold up to have the goalkeeper stretch up his arms" and "hold down to have the keeper lower his body and show his reach" animations? I liked those touches in previous games, made you feel like it was you on the line. Now you just bounce around without any real control and wait for the kick.

Also saving should be alot more fun. You could for example implement a system where the LAS controls the direction your keeper jumps, and the RAS controls his arms, so even if you jump "Right-low", and the penalty goes "right-high", you could make your keeper stretch an arm up with the RAS and perhaps save the ball.

And the penalties themselves could also need a new system, rather than the current simple "go past this mark on the powerbar and it is a sure miss". Even if you press Down on the LAS, to aim straight ahead and low, if you put the powerbar too high, it will always to OVER the bar. Now in real life, there is a certain correlation between power and height, as in, if a ball is struck in exactly the same manner several times, and the only variable is the power of the strike, the more powerful strike will usually get more height, not just because of the speed allowing the arch to become longer and higher, but also since the curl is different based on how much force the ball is compressed with and how far up the boot the ball can "roll" up in the compression phase before it shoots off, blah blah). Point is, why have such a one-dimensional system, when in real life it is completely possible to put full power into a penalty and both have it sniffing the ground, aswell as accidentally shooting over the ball due to a misshit, or hitting anywhere, really. If it would be too easy to score in the game if you could shoot really hard down the middle, then I'd think about introducing alot more inaccuracy as the powerbar fills up, and also change the goalkeeper controls so that you can throw yourself at any point, even after the ball is struck, so that you can wait slightly longer and potentially wait out any balls struck down the middle, but also have time to atleast make an effort to a side if you notice the ball going there. Goalkeeper controls should be more hands on and responsive, so that you can decide not just what direction the goalkeeper should jump, but also what moment he should jump, and also control the direction and such of his actual "save", whether that be arms reaching up or down to reach a ball, or trying to kick the ball with the legs etc.



- Freekick curling. I have to agree it should be considered a bug. It starts off good, but then the ball suddenly grabs the ball. Now that is sort of how real life balls react, they curl more at the end of the trajectory as the speed slows down, but this seems highly exaggerated.



- Very nice touch that you now decide not only that the freekick wall should jump, but you also control the exact timing of the jump. Makes freekicks against mates alot more exciting, since your timing of the wall jump can be the difference between a counterattack and a Freekick in the top corner. Such a small thing, but that is the type of thinking that makes a good game. Taking a thing like wall control during a freekick from a passive "hold a button" affair to a moment that requires concentration and timing.



- I really, really want some easy, responsive 2-foot feints and drop-shoulder type feints on the LAS. I managed one 2-foot feint before, don't know how I did it because when I tried the same move again he just did the standard dribble moves, no continuous 1-2 touch. You could activate them by moving the stick in a certain way when holding LT, which would still allow for non-skill movement when using just the LAS to move.



- Player switching seems awkward and a bit "off" in the logic that decided who to switch to next. It almost never seemed to switch to the player I was trying to switch to. Could be that I'm used to PES5 and thus an so used to the way it switches players. Still, I felt like the game wasn't switching to the player I felt was best for the situation.




Those are some thoughts I had from the demo. Might think of more tomorrow. Now you will have to excuse me, it's 2:19AM, and time for my nap. :YAWN:
 
How do you shield the ball? It's automatic?

Doing controls with the right analog now is sick. You can really receive long passes and put the ball further to gain those meters from defense and reach the goalkeeper alone. Beautiful!
 
Can the goalies get a red card in Fifa 09? i've been playing the demo but it never have happened to me, altought my friend tackledme twice with a goalie and didnt get a card for it.
 
Chris Bauer said:
Something I really would like to see is club logos flashing across the screen, i.e. if Torres has a shot, just before the replay starts, the Liverpool logo shoots across with a screen-wipe. It does this in PES2008, but only with the league logo - although saying that, that would be a good enough start. It would just add a further touch of authenticity.
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I always remember in Actua Soccer 2 when a player had a shot or did something of note there would be a close-up camera view of him tracking back to his position for the goal kick/throw-in etc and his name and stats would flash up below (eg shots on target, passes completed etc). I'm going back about 10 years now but that game was ahead of it's time in terms of presentation.
 
Kallinn said:
Can the goalies get a red card in Fifa 09? i've been playing the demo but it never have happened to me, altought my friend tackledme twice with a goalie and didnt get a card for it.
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Apparently so Kallinn, a few people have said so.

I had the goalie yellow carded today, and he gave away a penalty as well, the pillock.

Jamezinho said:
I always remember in Actua Soccer 2 when a player had a shot or did something of note there would be a close-up camera view of him tracking back to his position for the goal kick/throw-in etc and his name and stats would flash up below (eg shots on target, passes completed etc). I'm going back about 10 years now but that game was ahead of it's time in terms of presentation.
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Funny you should say that, I played it the other day and thought the same thing. Also, in one of the Actua Soccers, if you score a long-range goal it shows you the path of the ball and how far out it was/how fast it was, if it was a particularly impressive shot.

A lot of the old games could teach something to the new ones, PES needs to look at the amount of teams/manager movement in SWOS, and FIFA could still improve presentation even further.
 
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Chris Bauer said:
Funny you should say that, I played it the other day and thought the same thing. Also, in one of the Actua Soccers, if you score a long-range goal it shows you the path of the ball and how far out it was/how fast it was, if it was a particularly impressive shot.
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I'd forgotten about that. It's all flooding back now. Even Trevor Brooking as the co-commentator talking about his days at West Ham.

Edit: Barry Davies was the commentator. I always preferred him to Motson.
 
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That reminds me actually, I have noticed one weird thing... Have you seen it when the team waiting for the kick-off all do the exact same warm-up routine at the exact same time?

It seriously looks like Riverdance, they need to have a look at that!
 
Three points from the 360 demo from me:

1. EA needs to ramp up the "World Class" difficulty. Far too easy to go on solo runs straight from the kickoff and score. Either that, or someone should tell big Phil to just have real-life Drogba dribble a bit left on the kickoff then head straight toward the goal and curl a right-footed finesse shot far post around the goalie... The only reason it doesn't work every time, is because I make a mistake with my dribble angle. A little easy.

2. What happened to the L2+R2 (alt control scheme) "face the goal" slow dribble? I really liked using it in EURO 08, not sure why it's been removed... perhaps it's just remapped, but I can't find it in the control guide.

3. What is the deal with the crowd shot that happens before subs every time? I'm assuming it's a place-keeping cut-scene and something that makes sense will be there in the final version. As of now, very odd.


Those 3 points aside, I'm loving the demo (although it's hard to resist abusing 1 after a goal is scored against me) but I really wish EA had not forced (a very boring) penalty shoot-out on us and had given us more time to build up play. I'd have been much happier with the ability to just play a half and have it be 5+ minutes. I assume the time limitation is to prevent people from just playing the free demo and not buying the full version... but really, who is going to do that?
 
Scored a goal that i dont think would never of looked as good on ANY other football game, even it was possible at all!!. I saved a penalty in normal time and the ball bounced to the keepers left and the left back picked up the ball, a massive hoof up the field followed, followed by a flick on headed just past the half way line. Had an attacker fun onto it, held about 3 players off, made his way into the penalty box and slotted it into the far left hand corner! It looked and felt very real and immediately felt massive satisfaction! Sheer quality. I did record it, if it come out ok i will post on here. :DD

YouTube - Breakaway Fifa 09 goal
 
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Chris Bauer said:
Something I really would like to see is club logos flashing across the screen, i.e. if Torres has a shot, just before the replay starts, the Liverpool logo shoots across with a screen-wipe. It does this in PES2008, but only with the league logo - although saying that, that would be a good enough start. It would just add a further touch of authenticity.
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Could be a possibility that the screen-wipe logo would vary dependent on the league/competition. In NHL09 there are different logos that appear (such as NHL, AHL, etc.) when you play a league game - the EA one is used only for games like quick matches and international competition.
 
I have a question ,i noticed that FIFA 08 whether your player was right-footed or left-footed ,he would the same dribbles with the same right foot. I mean if Ronaldinho does the flip flap with his right foot ,it is obviously normal but when Messi does it with his right foot too ,it feels a bit weird. Has this been corrected in this demo guys ?

btw: Great compilation Airjoca, I really enjoyed it and specially the Drogba miss hahah
 
I love the game but there is one huge flaw still not fixed.

Shots that are going in, miraculously stopped and parried by thin air. Watching a replay now, the keepers fingers are a good foot from the ball, and it gets parried out. No its a goal EA
 
chriscrocker said:
It is impressing though, the only people that aren't impressed by it are twelve year old kids on the EA forums who don't like the fact they can't run round an entire team with Ronaldinho.
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Not true, and a pointless thing to say because it isn't true.


ThomasGOAL said:
Transcript

- There are alot of people on the forums talking about the ball physics, like pro evo this year, in fifa you have to be careful where you shoot and when, taking into account foot strength and who your controlling.
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I need to call bullshit here. They say the Ballphysics aren't bad, and that people who complain about the ball being too floaty need to consider the balance, positioning of the player etc, since if you are off balance, the shot will go over.

Really? Because in real life, being off balance usually has the result of a "bad" shot, not a high shot. I don't understand why game designers still have some sort of love relationship with having the ball to over everytime you mistime a shot, whilst the general aim direction still is pretty much perfect.

Also, the floaty balls are there constantly, including when you are just jogging straight at goal in the arena, completely on balance and unpressured. It has nothing to do with balance, it is a combination of constant big amounts of backspinning aswell as what I would say is a slightly too lightweight ball that could use some more mass. Like I wrote before, there is very little variation in the shooting and the ball behavior, and the only times I saw some really different physics was when I volleyed the ball for some reason, and the ball could get that top spin (not saying the ball should top spin from normal shot).


And, I really miss some kind of way to visually gauge what balance the player has. The podcast constantly refers to the balance of the player, the timing of the shot etc. But there is no way to know the balance of the player at any moment, nor is there any way to know the best timing to press the shot button. What do they even mean when they say "timing of the shot"? Does it refer to the difference that might occur if you press the shot button at a certain point, or 1 millisecond later (seems like there shouldn't be a practical difference there). Or do they mean the timing as in "wait one more step before shooting so that your player can get all his balance back, or atleast I think so since I've no way to know what balance the player has at the moment".

I mean, if you are playing football and are going to take a shot, you yourself feel how well balanced you are, obviously. Thus you can take special care with power and such if you feel that putting too much power into the shot will make you mishit.

I'd like some way to know what the player is feeling in terms of balance. Maybe just some indicator above his head that changes color depending on how composed he is or something.



The best system, for me, would be to simply have a simple "balance" meter, that tells you how balanced or composed the player is at a given moment. Shooting when he is more unbalanced/uncomposed introduces much higher inaccuracy (not just in the "shooting over" sense, but mishits in general, whether that be the ball flying high, or flying wide, or just gracing off the side of the boot for a completely botched shot. The current system has no real basis in reality I feel. That together with a good system for randomizing the general shot accuracy based on the player stats would be the most realistic system imo. Basically, you have a base inaccuracy for a player with the potential for mishits which is controlled by the shot accuracy stat. The composure system then goes on top of that and so if the player is uncomposed, it will severely lower the accuracy stat even more. And shots taken while uncomposed will not just go high, but the dispersion of the mishits will be all over the place, groundrollers, the player almost missing the ball completely causing a very angled weak shot, etc.
The "timing" aspect would simply be to aim to shoot while the composure meter is on "green" as opposed to "red". If you are unbalanced and still want the most decent shot possible, the solution would be to use little power, since using more power would introduce even more inaccuracy to the already inaccurate unbalanced shot.


Obviously there are so many nuances to real life shooting, the subtle shape of the foot etc etc, that it would be impossible to give you all the control at the tips of your fingers. But that doesn't mean that a "unbalanced shots always go over" should be the norm. And seeing how we have analog sticks aplenty, theres no reason we can't have separate power (forcefulness of the leg swing) and height "shape of the foot" controls, if realism is the true goal.
 
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They need to sort the radar badly, I can't see anything. It's a nightmare when you want to change wings with long balls.
 
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