FIFA 09 Discussion Thread (Old)

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Re: FIFA 09

I call these sort of things 'equalisers'. I've spoken about this on the podcast too.

The fact that EA gives the player so much freedom when shooting, the developers have to try and combat that freedom to keep things in check. If you could aim anywhere with keepers who werent superhuman you'd have rugby-like scorelines.

Looks at PES 2008. Huge emphasis on dribbling without any equalisers. Hence huge scorelines.

I'm being a bit extreme but I'm sure you guys know what I'm getting at.

Therefore while the keepers are crazy good, it doesnt bother me as much as I understand why they are that way. I'd rather EA concentrate on getting rid of the errors they continually make like parrying too much and not coming out for loose balls.


Well, obviously you are right Adam. :)
But IMO it's bad game design and really bad they havent adressed this yet, and the equalizers almost bother me more than the issue they are there to fix, since they change something else to balance instead of correcting the source of the imbalance.

But it is really easily helped by increasing the natural shooting inaccuracies of the players to not make human players able to be as effective at shooting just because of analog aim.

And, if they just would finally allow defenders and players off the ball to take the ball and not have opponents dribble around for 5 minutes, that would severely diminish the number of shots on goal.

Kind of weird though when shots in general are too weak in Euro and FIFA08.




So:


1. Increase the power of shots, and change their trajectories slightly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO49XT9OK1M notice the power of the shot and that the goalkeeper doesn't hardly move despite the shot being from outside the box, this needs replicating in FIFA), but reduce the accuracy for players at a given stat number (evens out quite nicely).

2. Make goalkeepers worse (reaction times and lenght of jumps when stationary), and make it possible to slot the ball in at the posts and such where goalkeepers realistically have a hard time reaching, and reduce their responsiveness to a more realistic value (but make them more proficient at saving shots close to their bodies since the reaction at shots like that only involve moving limbs usually which is far more efficient in reaction times than doing a full body move), and change alot of the animations to give goalkeepers a bit more natural movements. Basically make the goalkeepers better at small movements and worse at bigger moves. Also the goalkeeper movements need to be improved, since nowadays the goalkeepers don't need to use their feet when responding to a shot. You can see them starting to float on the ground almost immediately after a shot, and this is more efficient than real life, which gives them an unfair advantage and it enables them to reach certasin balls that they wouldn't normally. Their kinetics need a total revamp, and they shouln't be except from proper footing and needing time to push away from the ground and initiate movement in a direction. Also change so that there are less "save despite his hand not touching the ball", and even if he touches the ball with his fingers, the ball shouldn't be deflected completely, but merely change angle slightly and being able to still find the back of the net if deflected little enough).

3. Improve defending and close encounters (PES5/WE9 is a great example at how it could be done, where you always have the choice of pressing a player hard, often getting a foul, by holding the A/X button while running with an opponent). This would also have the effect of actually fixing the complete absence of freekicks in the game.


With these changes you would have basically equally many changes making it harder and making it easier to score and such, while also making shooting powers faster and more realistic, and finally making sure there are some actual freekicks in a game like players tripping other with their legs when pressing.
 
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Re: FIFA 09

Sort out the fact that I make a tackle and win the ball quite nicely and the CPU Gives itself a freekick... yet 3 times in that same game I was blatantly taken out from the back and NO Freekick Given!!! (FIFA 08 this was)
 
Re: FIFA 09

3. Improve defending and close encounters (PES5/WE9 is a great example at how it could be done, where you always have the choice of pressing a player hard, often getting a foul, by holding the A/X button while running with an opponent). This would also have the effect of actually fixing the complete absence of freekicks in the game.
Talking about improving defending: I think that will not happen. In that article about the 50000 tactics they say there will be 40 ways of defending and 500 ways to attack. Does not sound like an improved defence, although quantity does not always have to do with quality. But it does not sound well...
 
Re: FIFA 09

Talking about improving defending: I think that will not happen. In that article about the 50000 tactics they say there will be 40 ways of defending and 500 ways to attack. Does not sound like an improved defence, although quantity does not always have to do with quality. But it does not sound well...

Yow. :))

I think they are talking about the tactical things no? Like movement off the ball and such? I was only concerned with the physics and control of trying to get the ball by holding A. ;)

I am never really concerned with tactics tbh, so I couldn't begin to decipher what they ae trying to say. :blush:
 
Re: FIFA 09

Yes, they are talking about the number of tactical ways to attack or to defend. What I am worrying about is the huge number in favour for the attack: 500:40 . That does not sound well balanced... I know you was concerned on other aspects, but it still looks like EA is emphasizing on attack, which make me feel they are not too much concerned on defence in general and that's not a good thing...
 
Re: FIFA 09

After seeing Ronaldinho and Rooney on the magazine scans, all I can say is BRAVO *clap* *clap* *clap* BRAVO *clap* *clap* BRAVO EA.

These are simply untoppable graphics. I do not absolutely look forward to Konami's "effort" in this regard. Simply untoppable.

Until Seabass starts hiring new people, I do not look forward to his "next-gen" effort on graphics.

http://www.gamegrep.com/other/10144-new_fifa_09_magazine_scans_showing_detail_like_never_before/#
Not meaning to be a downer or anything BUT The Knight I wouldnt go that far. I dont think they look super amazing.... Rooney still looks quite scary.... just like them Resi 5 Human/Zombie things! I dont see many people with eyes that big and that alert!
 
Re: FIFA 09

Lol Placebo. Whats going on with the level of English around here. I understand there are a lot of foreign speaking individuals on these boards, but thats no excuse for people who can speak bloody fluent English. :LOL:

I was very slightly teasing him for his rather cute "English is not my first language" post in a non disrespectful way ;)
 
Re: FIFA 09

Fifa 09 finally having weather AND snow effects is cool. It took how many turns on next gen to finally get it? jeez!!!!

Anyway, i'm just hoping the shooting at goal mechanic is like winning eleven finally. there is nothing wrong with that mentailty of shooting for soccer. its never been perfected any better and this "decies on weight and placement thing" is a bunch of bullshit. I just want the same control I have with all the passing and tactical stuff. i want the directional pad to funbction as where the corners are on the net.

Top left corner topright corner


Bottom left corner bottom right corner
 
Re: FIFA 09

Fifa 09 finally having weather AND snow effects is cool. It took how many turns on next gen to finally get it? jeez!!!!

Anyway, i'm just hoping the shooting at goal mechanic is like winning eleven finally. there is nothing wrong with that mentailty of shooting for soccer. its never been perfected any better and this "decies on weight and placement thing" is a bunch of bullshit. I just want the same control I have with all the passing and tactical stuff. i want the directional pad to funbction as where the corners are on the net.

Top left corner topright corner


Bottom left corner bottom right corner

if it was that easy to shoot it would be pointless
 
Re: FIFA 09

Fifa 09 finally having weather AND snow effects is cool. It took how many turns on next gen to finally get it? jeez!!!!

Anyway, i'm just hoping the shooting at goal mechanic is like winning eleven finally. there is nothing wrong with that mentailty of shooting for soccer. its never been perfected any better and this "decies on weight and placement thing" is a bunch of bullshit. I just want the same control I have with all the passing and tactical stuff. i want the directional pad to funbction as where the corners are on the net.

Top left corner topright corner


Bottom left corner bottom right corner

That approach to football simulation was reached years ago with the first fifa game in 94. Don't think we have to go back to primitives... :-pp
 
Re: FIFA 09

Well, obviously you are right Adam. :)
But IMO it's bad game design and really bad they havent adressed this yet, and the equalizers almost bother me more than the issue they are there to fix, since they change something else to balance instead of correcting the source of the imbalance.

But it is really easily helped by increasing the natural shooting inaccuracies of the players to not make human players able to be as effective at shooting just because of analog aim.

And, if they just would finally allow defenders and players off the ball to take the ball and not have opponents dribble around for 5 minutes, that would severely diminish the number of shots on goal.

Kind of weird though when shots in general are too weak in Euro and FIFA08.

So:
1. Increase the power of shots, and change their trajectories slightly notice the power of the shot and that the goalkeeper doesn't hardly move despite the shot being from outside the box, this needs replicating in FIFA), but reduce the accuracy for players at a given stat number (evens out quite nicely).

2. Make goalkeepers worse (reaction times and lenght of jumps when stationary), and make it possible to slot the ball in at the posts and such where goalkeepers realistically have a hard time reaching, and reduce their responsiveness to a more realistic value (but make them more proficient at saving shots close to their bodies since the reaction at shots like that only involve moving limbs usually which is far more efficient in reaction times than doing a full body move), and change alot of the animations to give goalkeepers a bit more natural movements. Basically make the goalkeepers better at small movements and worse at bigger moves. Also the goalkeeper movements need to be improved, since nowadays the goalkeepers don't need to use their feet when responding to a shot. You can see them starting to float on the ground almost immediately after a shot, and this is more efficient than real life, which gives them an unfair advantage and it enables them to reach certasin balls that they wouldn't normally. Their kinetics need a total revamp, and they shouln't be except from proper footing and needing time to push away from the ground and initiate movement in a direction. Also change so that there are less "save despite his hand not touching the ball", and even if he touches the ball with his fingers, the ball shouldn't be deflected completely, but merely change angle slightly and being able to still find the back of the net if deflected little enough).

3. Improve defending and close encounters (PES5/WE9 is a great example at how it could be done, where you always have the choice of pressing a player hard, often getting a foul, by holding the A/X button while running with an opponent). This would also have the effect of actually fixing the complete absence of freekicks in the game.


With these changes you would have basically equally many changes making it harder and making it easier to score and such, while also making shooting powers faster and more realistic, and finally making sure there are some actual freekicks in a game like players tripping other with their legs when pressing.

I agree with everything that you said. I couldn't have put it better myself. Super-human goalkeepers and weak shots easy to perfectly aim in the corner were one of the biggest problems with Fifa 08.

Shooting was almost perfect in WE9 for me, I remember that stats actually mattered, so players like Adriano, Lampard etc... could make some really powerfull shots from the outside, and like in real life goalies couldn't save it. Another thing is that depending on the position and speed of the player and ball it would change the power of the shot. So if the ball came rolling in my direction and I ran straight to it then it would be a real powerful shot, while if I'm standing wit the ball it'd be harder to make a powerful shot.

I absolutely hate the superhuuman-keepers, and how shots are pretty much the same and too accurate.

I really hope that EA would improve those aspects like you posted, but I doubt it.
 
Re: FIFA 09

Fifa 09 finally having weather AND snow effects is cool. It took how many turns on next gen to finally get it? jeez!!!!

Anyway, i'm just hoping the shooting at goal mechanic is like winning eleven finally. there is nothing wrong with that mentailty of shooting for soccer. its never been perfected any better and this "decies on weight and placement thing" is a bunch of bullshit. I just want the same control I have with all the passing and tactical stuff. i want the directional pad to funbction as where the corners are on the net.

Top left corner topright corner


Bottom left corner bottom right corner


Are you sure that weather and snow are include in 09? :?
 
Re: FIFA 09

Are you sure that weather and snow are include in 09? :?


I thought?

And to those that don't agree with the shooting being like PES then i don't know what tot ell you. PES2008 might be bad to some but all in all it IS good in some departments esp when compared to fifa 08 where it lacks some things pes has but then again the same goes vice versa where fifa has now surpassed PES for sure...
 
Re: FIFA 09

Fifa 09 finally having weather AND snow effects is cool. It took how many turns on next gen to finally get it? jeez!!!!

Anyway, i'm just hoping the shooting at goal mechanic is like winning eleven finally. there is nothing wrong with that mentailty of shooting for soccer. its never been perfected any better and this "decies on weight and placement thing" is a bunch of bullshit. I just want the same control I have with all the passing and tactical stuff. i want the directional pad to funbction as where the corners are on the net.

Top left corner topright corner


Bottom left corner bottom right corner


Well, if I understand you correctly, using "Semi" for shot aiming and varying the power for the shot, you essentially have that. "Semi" constrains the range of the analog stick shot aim, so that you can at worst aim slightly outside goal (unlike "Manual" shots where you can aim for the corner flag if you aim far away from goal).

But going back to completely digital aim, or the system you are suggesting, would be a step back imo. "Semi" shooting in FIFA is for me the best system in a game yet. I don't really agree with using "Manual" since I don't shoot unless I want to hit goal, and if I want to hit goal I don't need to be able to aim far away from it.
 
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Re: FIFA 09

I cant see them :SS
tagsuf8.jpg
 
Re: FIFA 09

It aint on my screen lads, I would have spotted something that large ;))
 
Re: FIFA 09

Sorry but few persons says weather include but i never see in magazine talk about this.
 
Re: FIFA 09

Seeing as we're all reading the same info why not wait until more previews come out? Someone saying yes or no is meaningless anyways, won't change a thing :)
 
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