FIFA 08

[Chris Davies]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

This is why I'll find it hard to buy a PES game ever again. Here follows quotes from the times that I had FIFA 07 and UEFA CL.

Just played Kevano, Charlton v Tottenham (how many times will you see that on Pro Evo?) - WHAT a game. Again, a different style of football - my desperate passing to his extravagant football. First half was pretty even, second half he was dancing around my defenders (and Berbatov was scaring them all away). I love this game so much, PES doesn't touch it.

(Apart from the fact that "connection ended" appeared twenty minutes from the end, never had that before :eh

Yeah Jack from what Im hearing down your ISP's end, it was SO scared of Dmitar "The Beast" Berbatov, that your connection just bailed.

:lol:

How many times do you play PES online and see two different styles of football?
And no, lagging/cutbacking scumbag doesn't count as a style.

[Long boring match report has been spoilered]

Spoiler

Newcastle (me) v Real Madrid, for Champions League qualification - I need to win. We kick off and within ten minutes, I've had six shots against me, and yet somehow it's 0-0. My keeper kicks it too far, it ends up with a Real defender who does a backpass to the keeper. The keeper rushes the kick, totally fluffs it, and it lands at the feet of Milner. BANG. 1-0. The feeling is immense.

There's still 80 minutes of the game to go though. They kick off, pass it around for a bit without me getting a sniff, a long ball to the winger, a ground-pass to Nistelrooy, BANG, 1-1. My lead lasted for one minute.

I defended for the rest of the game as hard as I could - they had a ridiculous amount of shots in the end, and I managed about four (one on target). In the last minute, a ground-cross went through all of the players and fell to the feet of Ameobi, who SMACKED it... On to the crossbar. The ball came back into play, was cleared, and that was that. Out of the Champions League.

I've not had this much fun with a football game since the old Football Manager games - and I spent years of my life on those.

I still wake up in the morning looking forward to playing the game, and as I've said before, it's been years since I did that with PES.

For me personally, that's the bottom line.

My only worry, and it's a big worry, is the online play. It was great in FIFA 07, and totally ruined in UEFA CL because of the through-ball button being so effective (you could twat the ball from defence to midfield, then press through-ball, and you've got a one-on-one with the goalie).

I played UEFA three times and every time, I got a guy who just banged through-balls to the forwards and scored, time and time again, and whenever there was a pause they would let the 30 seconds count out without actually making any changes.

Even if that's not fixed the offline play will be brilliant for me, especially with lower-league teams. But I wouldn't have fun playing Tranmere v Barcelona online, with the through-ball bug as well...

EDIT: (off-topic, regarding PESV's post on JLWE2007CC)

Jack have U really tried to get familiar with the strategy buttons? I myself are just about to try and implant them in my game of JLWE2007CC. U know what I mean right? L2+"button" for a left/right side attack, etcetera. Get your arrows sorted out too and U it might feel close to that Fifa feature.

Yes and no, it does work, I always configure the strategies, but A) you shouldn't have to, a player run button is a lot easier to use and it's a matter of principal (the same as the supercancel button - yes, it works most of the time, but why should you have to press a button simply to make your player not do whatever the CPU wants?), and B) it's not as effective because the players will sometimes still just stop dead at a certain point, leaving you surrounded and with no options.

I know in the past it was not too effective so I kind of forgot about them, but going to give it a fair chance as I think 07CC deserves it. Its a good game and its growing on me.

It grew on me for about a week, when I realised it's just the same. Too many CPU cheats for me to enjoy the game, if I had a gun in my hand when it does the things it does I would literally shoot the PS2 (see my last post in the JLWE2007CC thread for a list of them, my favourite is probably the fact that you tackle all over the middle of the pitch and never touch the ball, you tackle by the sideline and amazingly you can touch the ball - but only to kick it out of play for a CPU throw-in).

 

[Dr Force]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

@ jack

i think the online game will be improved, but its obviously better if you play with a group of people who want to play football rather than just win online.
i will play forum members that are serious about not using "bugs"to thier advantage.

 

[Coopz]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

Well, FIFA certainly looks better to me.

PES looks the same as usual, scripted, angular, and now far too fast. It's not like watching football, it's like watching PES. FIFA looks smooth, fluid, natural and a good tempo. The ball also seems to leaves the grass and become a little air-borne more in FIFA, which is more real like football.

That is exactly what i thought

All you need to do is watch a game on TV to see that they dont ping the ball about at 100mph

i must admit though after playing WE/PES for years its fustrating when moving to Fifa and the passes are slow, but like i say thats real football

 

[airjoca]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

i must admit though after playing WE/PES for years its fustrating when moving to Fifa and the passes are slow, but like i say thats real football

You've never seen fast passes in real football? Watch Barcelona then. They usually play some fast passes, cause their players are good enough to do so.

Slow passes leads to interception.

Edit: watch this video. Do you think passes are too fast? No way.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/24102.html

 

[Placebo]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

One thing that was missing from 07 and UCL next gen that PES had and I miss is the ability to choose how attacking your team are, from all out defence all the way to all out attack, I don't remember if 07 current gen had that option but Fifa 08 could really use it

 

[Chris Davies]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

The amount of fanboys is the PES2008 thread now is unbelievable. I've seen posts today made purely to shit on FIFA. I don't think they actually care about PES, just how shit FIFA is.

Fucking hell, it amazes me, it really does.

 

[Placebo]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

They're just getting desperate, kinda like 1945 and Hitler sending the Hitler Youth and OAPs out to defend Berlin.......

 

[airjoca]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

You are amazed about the existence of PES fanboys on a PES forum? Huummm...

I'd bet there are lots and lots of FIFA fanboys on FIFA forums that have that "PES is shit" attittude as well.

Common opinion still seems to be that PES still edges FIFA because of gameplay and physics. If Seabass get off his ass and actually improves the other parts of the game, it's game over.

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

@ Airjoca, i dont even think the physics come in to it anymore with fifa's far more advanced engine. For me it really is only the response time from controller to onscreen movement. If fifa can sharpen that up pes is left behind. For me its the only important thing that pes still has going for it. Smaller elements are how recognisable players are, which pes is better at, and the nets. There is not much else left sadly.

The response time is definitly an element that is a major factor to how good the gameplay feels, how incontrol you are. PES is still better at that, even with the scripting and cheating. But then it should be with the basic engine its using. However, as i said in an earlier post, if you play UCL after not playing pes for ages, which i did the other day, the response time seems far less of a factor. Its still there ofcourse but it didnt annoy me as much as when i actually bought the game and played it......and promtly brought it back and exchanged it for something else. I cant see myself doing that again this year.

 

[winston]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

Common opinion still seems to be that PES still edges FIFA because of gameplay and physics. If Seabass get off his ass and actually improves the other parts of the game, it's game over.

It's a big IF though, isn't it? He's shown no sign of it in years. His current idea of improving the other aspects of his game is the inclusion of animal heads and static pictures of fans in pubs and old men on park benches.

And the fact that some (PES fanboys) say that "PES still edges it" implies that it is close, and considering how far behind FIFA was merely 2 years ago, it shows that the FIFA is clearly capable of making big strides forward. Seabass's record in recent years is that he has no idea what else to do. I'm convinced he's become very complacent about his game-engine, thinking it's good enough to last for years more without any sort of overhaul. Well, time for a reality check, Mr Lazybass.

I'd say there's every chance FIFA's on pitch gameplay improves more and more in the coming years. I'd say there's every chance that PES gameplay remains largely the same and it's already past it's sell-by date.

Seabass actually needs to take big action. It's no use people just saying he will and hope that PES will magically improve. We've been moaning for years about how poor the ML is thinking that surely next year will be the year. But it never is. You have to get the message through to him that things need to start getting much better.

The PES fanboys need to beware that this unwavering loyalty is gradually backfiring. Keep on buying the same game every year and you give Seabass an excuse to remin as lazy as he wants to be and make no substantial improvements.

As FIFA improves, the open-minded switch to the better product. If the current trend continues, it is PES that will be looking like the laughing stock (that's if it's not already) with a twindeling band of sheepish fans desparately defending yet another game barely different to last years, whilst secretly knowing they're bitterly disappointed, but just can't bring themselves to consider the dread F word. After all, FIFA used to be crap, therefore it must always be crap, right?

 

[winston]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

@ Airjoca, i dont even think the physics come in to it anymore with fifa's far more advanced engine. For me it really is only the response time from controller to onscreen movement.

Yeah, from what I've seen, the FIFA physics model is looking really sweet. Visually it's at least as convincing as PES, if not better. And just because it's not perfect now doesn't mean they can't improve it. And the one thing you can say bout EA in recent years is that they have put a lot of effort in to improving things.

The fact they've switched to a manual passing system is probably the most crucial stride they can make in terms of submitting control to the user, rather than relying on a scripted system. They can now build on that and refine it to the point of perfection, knowing that the gameplay is not going to fall to pieces. They've developed a good working engine and made it work. The sky's the limit now. If they have the inclination and imagination, they can add subtle touches of control that no football game has ever had. I'm just thinking back to some of the nice thing that even SWOS had, like after-touch, dip and swerve. How about some reverse spin to play a delicate chip that then grips as it lands. Football gaming paradise lies in full manual control, and FIFA is already a few steps down that path, albeit they have a fair way still to go.

With PES, Seabass just seems to be tinkering with his scripted engine of 10 years ago. Each year, he tinkers with the speed of passes and shots, adds a few extra scripted richottes, last year added the laughable balloon shots. He's flogging a dead horse.

There was the rumour from one of the mysterious PES "contacts" that one of his beta demos has 360 control, but it was dropped. Of course, most of the rumours coming from contacts have proven to be unfounded, but if this one was true, then that is the best news for PES. Until he goes manual, his game is going nowhere.

 

[kouroux]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

It's a big IF though, isn't it?

As big as a mountain.

 

[BumperMan]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

Anyone else wonder why PES hasn't opted for full analog control? seems like animations could be branches better f it was. not a complaint jusrt an observation. speaking of observations. i didn't like the Fifa 07 demo and then upon release broke down and enjoyed the full game to a point then was in limbo for many months until UEFA that came out and improved the speed of the game and actually was easier on the lower levels allowing casual gamers to enjoy it. Hopefully fifa 08 strikes a middle with it's realism from the vids though the game looks better by about 30 percent

 

[Dr Force]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

The manual passing system is a real bonus IMO.

Passing a certain button over and over again is not at all rewarding playing footy games.Stringing moves together with lovely passes into space resulting in a shot/goal etc gives a hell of alot of satisfaction.

its harder and takes a while to master but it has the bigger reward,ultimately allows you to "dictate" the game not the game dictating what you do next.

freedom is what we want with all the bells and whistles attached, it is a shame that FIFA still lacks a training mode which allows you to hone your style of play without actually playing a match, but this is bound to come soon.

i think if you look closely you will notice the obvious strengths in the AI with the Comp controlled players reacting and behaving like footballers, this helps with your own game if they are running intelligently(especially on manual)

 

[Slobber]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

Winston, great posts, mate. You pretty much say everything I also think about how shite PES is. PES is just plain broken in some aspects.

As for Fifa, it doesn't look perfect, but fuck it looks better than PES.

 

[Oli]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

I doubt the demo will be out on Monday. It's a bank holiday. I'm thinking the start of September like last year.

 

[gomito#10]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

You've never seen fast passes in real football? Watch Barcelona then. They usually play some fast passes, cause their players are good enough to do so.

Slow passes leads to interception.

Edit: watch this video. Do you think passes are too fast? No way.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/24102.html

now that video makes me feel better about PES but i have to admit fifa is looking good too... i think i will be buying both, unless the demos are really bad for both

 

[djdoc]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

Ill be buying both, I reckon ill smash up a 360 controller getting pissed at the bullshit deflections and physics in PES + the cheating and I wont play it for months (a bit like last year) I just hope FIFA lasts longer than about 3 weeks which 07 did for me last year.Got fed up with the shooting and the lack of "Yes I really did that!"

 

[BumperMan]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

Ill be buying both, I reckon ill smash up a 360 controller getting pissed at the bullshit deflections and physics in PES + the cheating and I wont play it for months (a bit like last year) I just hope FIFA lasts longer than about 3 weeks which 07 did for me last year.Got fed up with the shooting and the lack of

i'll say one thing though fifa 07 for Gamecube and xbox felt very unscripted for the first time shooting at goal much more like PES HOWEVER fifa 07 tried but wasn't there at all like in the current gen version of 07 so i can relate to the staement you made baout fifa being lacing in the
"Yes I really did that!"department

the game at the time felt like it was doing all the work regarding the goals not with passing howver9which i felt was pretty cool in UEFA only)

 

[kouroux]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

You are amazed about the existence of PES fanboys on a PES forum? Huummm...

I'd bet there are lots and lots of FIFA fanboys on FIFA forums that have that "PES is shit" attittude as well.

Common opinion still seems to be that PES still edges FIFA because of gameplay and physics. If Seabass get off his ass and actually improves the other parts of the game, it's game over.

Common opinion is right but it doesn't mean the gameplay of PES doesn't need some drastic changes but it's really far from being good and the more you play it and the more you realise it

 

[winston]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

I'd be interested to hear opinions from players of next-gen FIFA07 and UCL about penalty box scraps.

The videos I've seen of FIFA08 show plenty of nice action leading up to and around the penalty box but I've yet to see any footage of a good, old fashioned melee in a packed box (perhaps after a corner or free-kick) with legs desparately flying in from all angles and the ball pinging around causing panic and mayhem.

Did such moments occur in next-gen FIFA07 or UCL?

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

I cant remember any winston. Although i have to say that ive always been good at defensive play, both in pes and fifa so i rarely have those moments anyway. And in attack situations i cant really remember many, although i did have them. But the problem for me was the response time, it was too slow to see the ball drop infront of your player and then instantly hit shoot and that actually resulting in the player booting the ball.

 

[winston]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

Thanks tiktik.

Another thing I'd like to know about is what seem to be stamina bars beneath the players' names in the videos. I'm assuming that the blue bar is how much stamina the player has left as a whole but as they sprint, there's a white bar which decends down the blue bar. Is this short term stamina (ie. the player running out of breath as he makes a run)?

If so, what is the effect if a player completely runs out of breath. Does he slow down to a trot? Does his passing/shooting reduce in power/accuracy?

Likewise, do you ever notice the effects of loss of overall stamina (blue bar) later in the match?

 

[Dr Force]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

I'd be interested to hear opinions from players of next-gen FIFA07 and UCL about penalty box scraps.

The videos I've seen of FIFA08 show plenty of nice action leading up to and around the penalty box but I've yet to see any footage of a good, old fashioned melee in a packed box (perhaps after a corner or free-kick) with legs desparately flying in from all angles and the ball pinging around causing panic and mayhem.

Did such moments occur in next-gen FIFA07 or UCL?

Hi Winston

I had quite a few moments in FIFA07 that resulted in a goal mouth scramble.This was often from corners wher it would drop to a striker who would shoot deflecting off another player, desperately tried to clear from a defender only to rebound to a striker to tuck the ball in.

It resulted in some desperate button pressing etc. I also had occasions where a striker would shoot from around
10 yards, only for the shot to be blocked and the keeper had dived in anticiaption leaving an empty net.

this sort of thing did not happen often but it certainly was not scripted.

Other occasions where the keeper was chipped only for a defender to run back to the line and clear it.

the thing I did not like was the shooting which kind of left with a "did i do that ??" feeling, if they have cracked this then it will play a lovely game, especially on manual:applause:

 

[manu777]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

Thanks tiktik.

Another thing I'd like to know about is what seem to be stamina bars beneath the players' names in the videos. I'm assuming that the blue bar is how much stamina the player has left as a whole but as they sprint, there's a white bar which decends down the blue bar. Is this short term stamina (ie. the player running out of breath as he makes a run)?

If so, what is the effect if a player completely runs out of breath. Does he slow down to a trot? Does his passing/shooting reduce in power/accuracy?

Likewise, do you ever notice the effects of loss of overall stamina (blue bar) later in the match?

yeh what EA added this year was a slower dribble button im thinking ull sprint then when u run out of stamina it will put u back in slower dribble mode as for will it affect your passing shooting etc i have no idea

 

[Dr Force]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

Thanks tiktik.

Another thing I'd like to know about is what seem to be stamina bars beneath the players' names in the videos. I'm assuming that the blue bar is how much stamina the player has left as a whole but as they sprint, there's a white bar which decends down the blue bar. Is this short term stamina (ie. the player running out of breath as he makes a run)?

If so, what is the effect if a player completely runs out of breath. Does he slow down to a trot? Does his passing/shooting reduce in power/accuracy?

Likewise, do you ever notice the effects of loss of overall stamina (blue bar) later in the match?

you are right in your assumption.

if you sprint from your own area, by the time you get to the opositions box you will slow right down to a trot, this has an effect on your overall stamina and powers of recovery.

conserving energy is another factor that works well in FIFA and extra time substitutions are often a major factor in getting a result.

 

[winston]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

Sounds cool. I'm growing more and more hopeful for this game.

Thanks chaps.

 

[matherto]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

technically if a game wasn't scripted, nothing would actually happen.

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

In fifa07 the overal match stamina would adjust depending on how you play or if you had just scored etc. An example would be if you were playing as arsenal and passing the ball about and putting a lot of pressure on the opposition, the opposition stamina would go down faster then your own as they were under a lot of pressure and having to hang on. Meaning that if you could keep it up for a long period they would eventually get too tired and you could score easier. But at the same time if they were to score on the counter they would get a stamina boost and yours would go down slightly because of the mental knock.

Its a nice system, although i cant remember it effecting play too much, but it does also work as a nice icon to see how your team is doing(under the cosh or dominating play) and how you would need to alter the tactics to get yourself back in the game or not. Maybe adding an extra midfielder to keep more possesion when getting the ball back if you were hanging on. Cant say i played enough matches of 07 ( i didnt finish my 1st manager mode season, about 34games played) to really get into the details of it.

But i do remember it having a slight effect on the match, or maybe I just "felt" it and also got confirmation through the match stamina bar. A bit like real matches, in the manner that when a team in constantly on top and you are hanging on it looks more and more likely that youll concede and the team get more and more tired and less organised. The mancity-manu match springs to mind as one with hanging on, whereas the liv-chelsea match shows the way a team who was on top and looking the more likely to score can lose their way after conceding an undeserved goal. In that manner fifa really does work well, imo.

 

[JayD]

Re: FIFA 08 (360 & PS3)

http://www.psking.net/news/Xbox 360/FIFA 08/7636

New video, check out the wicked animation at 1.17 when he misses a header and falls over. The AI looks excellent and as if it will provide a stern challange, something which has been lacking in Football games for ages. I'm 100% sold on this. I was a huge UCL fan anyway and this is a definite leap in the right direction.