FC Barcelona Thread

Yeah, I think Messi is very honest, with great sportsmanship. He did try to get fouls by diving once or twice against Inter, but I think it was the extremely frustrating situation he was in. For a guy of his size I think it's impressive how he stays up and can take knocks.

It wouldn't be fair to criticise Messi for failing to score. Football is decided in minor details and if he had scored that goal it could have been a completely different story. However, he had a world class keeper to stop him.

BobbyBox said:
I don't care what you say, If you have a whole team basically defending in their box, then it is going to take something very very special to get past them....especially a team like Inter. But I don't think Messi et al can be so harshly criticised? I think Inter should be criticised on the way they played made the game fucking dreadful.
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To me, who really ruined the match was the ref. After that ridiculous sending off, nobody can blame Inter for what they did. Knowing that they were being ripped off and still maintaining mentally strong and defending like that against the best attackers in the world? Full merits to them. That's how you play football, you do whatever it takes to win. You have to be able to adapt to situations. That's what makes champions and that's what we don't see at Arsenal unfortunately.

Not every team could have parked the bus and held the pressure against Barca like that. When you do that you invite opposition into your own half, let them have all the possession and, basically, you have to brace yourself for the rest of the match. I think Arsenal, with this dodgy defence we currently have, would have been sodomised. You really need a solid defence to survive that. When you have a keeper like Julio Cesar and Zanetti, Lucio, Samuel, Maicon, Cambiasso in the back line it's a whole different story. Oh, and we saw Inter players running a LOT. Samuel Eto'o sometimes came to the rescue as a left back! Whereas Arsenal, filled with 22 year old Denilsons and Diabys who don't bust their guts, wouldn't survive that. It's sad but true.

Sorry about the off topic, this isn't about Arsenal or Inter. I think Messi is still the best in the world but, hey, he's human! Congrats to Barca for the campaign, good luck on the League (please don't let Real win this!), get yourselves sorted, get rid of that scumbag Busquets and, oh, if you don't want Yaya Toure, send him to Arsenal ;)
 
Totally agree with drekkard on Messi/Ronaldo.
Messi is the best football player in the world.
Ronaldo merely is a star. Football is about the team, Ronaldo is too individualistic.
I always rated Rooney much higher than Ronaldo becuase he's a very versatile team player.
 
Rentboy said:
Yeah, I think Messi is very honest, with great sportsmanship. He did try to get fouls by diving once or twice against Inter, but I think it was the extremely frustrating situation he was in. For a guy of his size I think it's impressive how he stays up and can take knocks.

It wouldn't be fair to criticise Messi for failing to score. Football is decided in minor details and if he had scored that goal it could have been a completely different story. However, he had a world class keeper to stop him.



To me, who really ruined the match was the ref. After that ridiculous sending off, nobody can blame Inter for what they did. Knowing that they were being ripped off and still maintaining mentally strong and defending like that against the best attackers in the world? Full merits to them. That's how you play football, you do whatever it takes to win. You have to be able to adapt to situations. That's what makes champions and that's what we don't see at Arsenal unfortunately.

Not every team could have parked the bus and held the pressure against Barca like that. When you do that you invite opposition into your own half, let them have all the possession and, basically, you have to brace yourself for the rest of the match. I think Arsenal, with this dodgy defence we currently have, would have been sodomised. You really need a solid defence to survive that. When you have a keeper like Julio Cesar and Zanetti, Lucio, Samuel, Maicon, Cambiasso in the back line it's a whole different story. Oh, and we saw Inter players running a LOT. Samuel Eto'o sometimes came to the rescue as a left back! Whereas Arsenal, filled with 22 year old Denilsons and Diabys who don't bust their guts, wouldn't survive that. It's sad but true.

Sorry about the off topic, this isn't about Arsenal or Inter. I think Messi is still the best in the world but, hey, he's human! Congrats to Barca for the campaign, good luck on the League (please don't let Real win this!), get yourselves sorted, get rid of that scumbag Busquets and, oh, if you don't want Yaya Toure, send him to Arsenal ;)
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you are right on all your points about Arsenal.

But Inter were playing that way before the man was sent off aswell.

Also Inter were diving and faining injury all through the match, so they can't complain too much about the Barca man. i'm sure if one of their dives got a plyer sent off they wouldn't have done anything any different.

I just find it hard to praise a team of Inters calibre when they play a game as this, such negative, horrible, backs to the wall football. Diving all over the place whenever they got touched to waste time etc etc. It took a bit of a shine off of the first result to me.

Anyway, i don't support either team.....so it doesn't really matter :DD
 
gerd said:
Compared to Ronaldo, Messi is very, very humble and has a great character.
But compared to Ronaldo even John Lydon is very humble.
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Mate, you're getting it all wrong. Arrogance and being humble are two different things. Thierry Henry was arrogant as hell but he was still very humble.
Ronaldo is arrogant but that doesnt mean he isnt humble. He still thanks the people at United to this very day for helping him become the man he is today. After every game at United when he was interviewed, he'd always say he was just happy to get the win for his team or how his teammates made it easier for him to score. He's an individual on the pitch but that's his style of play, not his character.
The difference between Messi and Ronaldo's character is that Messi doesnt have the arrogance, that's it. The reason why I knock Messi is because he hasnt been tested physically, mentally or even technically on the pitch in the same way that Ronaldo has in his career.
Ronaldo was a diver at an early age so naturally he got a lot of abuse from other fan. Plus after the WC2006 incident, he had the whole nation wanting to hang him. And to top it all off, the man he got sent off played for his same club. Do we know if Messi has it in him mentally to go from that and become as big as Ronaldo eventually did?
Physically, Ronaldo took a lot of hard tackles, week in week out. Plus our refs dont stop play as easily as they do in La Liga. Can Messi handle that for 6 years?
And like I said before, technically, Ronaldo was challenged when facing teams like Chelsea, Inter, etc, the kind of teams that set out to stop you before winning themselves and still came out on top. How well does Messi perform against these kind of teams?
Dont judge Ronaldo now as you see him, look at where he came from. And from that angle, I personally dont think Messi is a better player. I know most people still wont agree with me but I guess we're all entitled to our opinions.

drekkard said:
I think you're totally wrong here man, and as sometimes I told you, I doubt you watch full matches of Barcelona and Madrid too often. You will see Messi diving once or twice per season, or at least that's what I see, and I watch ALL his games.
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That is exactly my point. Messi does dive but not often because he doesnt feel he has to. But he still has it in him to dive if he feels he needs to. The thing with Barca is that they are an awesome team that usually never needs to stoop that low. Ronaldo played for two teams (United and Madrid) where they werent even half as dominating as Barca so he felt the need to cheat to steal a victory. I'm not defending Ronaldo. I just think that if you put Messi in an environment where he's not winning games or struggling for wins, there's a good chance he'd resort to diving too cuz he has already shown evidence of that.
 
And before people think I'm biased (shock horror!), I still think Ronaldinho at his peak was a better player than both Ronaldo and Messi. Now that man summed up what this beautiful sport is all about.
 
I'm more "old school" as well. I enjoyed watching Zidane, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Ronaldo etc. more than I enjoy watching Messi, Cristiano and the other top players of the modern game.
 
RuneEdge said:
And before people think I'm biased (shock horror!), I still think Ronaldinho at his peak was a better player than both Ronaldo and Messi. Now that man summed up what this beautiful sport is all about.
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+1 i personaly think even zidane is a greater player than messi.
 
Aboutreika18 said:
I'm more "old school" as well. I enjoyed watching Zidane, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Ronaldo etc. more than I enjoy watching Messi, Cristiano and the other top players of the modern game.
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+3 but is shocking that these guys are considered old school already.
To me Ronaldinho in his prime was the best I ever seen, and I think he should be considered a modern game player, just like Ronaldo.
Zidane and Rivaldo are kinda of old school I guess, but they played different roles.

About the Messi/C.Ronaldo thing, both played 'bad' games against bus parkers, like I said already defending is easier than attacking.

No wonder these guys all worked on free-kicks, sometimes thats the only alternative.

But one thing really bothered me in Barca that game, they didn't have that much of movement, players switching positions, side backs trying diagonal runs etc.

They just kept passing side to side until someone tried a trough ball or a long pass.

Here in Brazil some teams really work this out, cause they know they will play against bus park teams.

Barca really should start to create alternatives for these types of games.

Anyway the good news for Barca is David Villa :D
 
Cruijff was at least as good as Zidane and i think in the development of football he was much more influential.
If you speak about best players ever (which is bullshit, but i like bullshitting) i would go for this:
1 Pele (a league on his own)
2 Maradonna
3 Cruijff
4 Zidane (but they are very close)

It's too early to punt Messi in this list.
Ronaldinho, Ronaldo (the fat one) and other players mentioned here does not even come close to those four. There are plenty of older players who are much, much better than the players who are mentioned in here (think about Di Stefano - oops this in a thread about Barcelona).

But to put it all in perspective, in the last FourFour Two i read an interview with an Argentinian player who is 100 years old and who played in the first WC final. He said the best player he ever saw was a certain Jose manuel Moreno who played for "La Maquina" the fantastic River Plate team...mind you this guy is Argentinian and also saw Maradonna play a lot...on top of that he is a Boca fan like Maradonna.

Rune, you made some valid points but as always you overstimate English football. I think you're quite a nice guy, but we always tend to disagree, let's leave it...

Oh and sorry for the off-topic.
 
I think the best European player ever are both Cruyff and Beckenbauer. Both changed dramatically the way this sport was played. And Beckenbauer was a defender, so that makes it even more worthy to be there considering all the glory is always for the scorers. Zidane would come 3rd, but he was not as revolutionary as those 2.

I agree with many that Ronaldinho and Romario at their peak were incredible to watch, but their peak lasted only 1 season! Messi is a joy to watch. He simply has played poorly these last 2 matches, but look what he has done this last seasons and you realise how amazing he has been. I still rate him the most decisive player I've seen. Come on, he's european top scorer and he's NOT the striker of the team. How many years we have to go back to see this?

Younggun: I really invite you to watch more closely La Liga matches. True is not as physical as the Premier, but that doesn't mean they let Messi play as he wants. There are matches were the opponent tackles Messi all the time, with brutal tackles as well. He just stands up and plays 99% of the time, or he tries to continue playing without falling down. In the same La Liga, Ronaldo will continually dive and moan, even when his team is winning 3 or 4 to 0. So, it's not a matter of playing a more "physical" league or where you come from, they are as they are. Ronaldo is a great star and a great athlete, but needs to address a lot his diving and moaning.
 
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drekkard said:
I still rate him the most decisive player I've seen. Come on, he's european top scorer and he's NOT the striker of the team. How many years we have to go back to see this?
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Not far mate, it happened in 07/08!

Cristiano Ronaldo, 31 goals. Rooney, Tevez and Saha were the strikers and Ronaldo won Golden Boot.
 
Ronnie also tore up Serie A defences when Serie A was the best league in the world.

I just wonder how longer his peak would've been if not for those knee injuries.
 
but drekkard said Messi was the best player to watch live, even though Ronaldo was amazing at Barca at 20 yrs. old scoring so many goals. Clearly Ronaldo was a beast I thought 02 was his best year imo.
 
beboq said:
but drekkard said Messi was the best player to watch live, even though Ronaldo was amazing at Barca at 20 yrs. old scoring so many goals. Clearly Ronaldo was a beast I thought 02 was his best year imo.
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Nah, his 2002 form was way overrated and blown out of proportion.

He wasn't even the best player at the World Cup, nor in his Brazil side.
 
that`s a better way of expressing it. He was reaping what he put in on his earlier years.He couldn`t do no wrong scoring his 15th even when he was finished and past it .Don`t think many can do that or done that. He is on my top 10 list...never seen pele only on films from the late 70`s
 
Aboutreika18 said:
Nah, his 2002 form was way overrated and blown out of proportion.

He wasn't even the best player at the World Cup, nor in his Brazil side.
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He did go on to score 20+ goals the following season, so he was definitely on fire at the time.

He was incredible from 96-98 from the little I remember though, being so young watching someone like that used to make him seem like he was on another planet.
 
Yeah, I think 96-00 was the time he was on top of the world. Wasnt too impressed from the Madrid era and onwards. Although his hatrick against us was something to witness.
Its a shame what injuries and his weight did to his career. Its hard to believe he's still only 33.


EDIT

YouTube - The Legend Ronaldo vs Man Utd - Season 02/03

Never seen that Joga Bonito ad before.
 
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YoungGun_UK said:
Think your confusing me with Rune Drekkard, Messi is better than C.Ron IMO but I still don't think either match Ronaldo.

Did you get to watch his 47 goal season live mate? Was unbelievable
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Yeah, sorry, I confused nicks. And yes I watched LIVE that season. He was unbelievably impressive, but in my oppinion it comes third in place after Messi, Romario and Ronaldinho if we talk about one single season performance. A shame he had so many injuries and the fact he was a silly boy moved by his agents. He wanted to stay at Barcelona and ended up in Inter in a very dark episode, after doing that exceptional season.

Ronaldo was a beast, but Romario and Ronaldinho were much better to watch live. I mean, those guys were pure creativity, you would never know what they were going to do and would surprise you with incredible plays. As a spectator, ask to any Barcelona fan and they will put Romario above Ronaldo, even if it's a very difficult choice.

But as I said, I had never seen anything like Messi in this 2 seasons. True, Ronaldinho was brilliant and so creative, but when Messi is fit, you know he WILL single handedly win the match when he wants, and makes it seem so easy. A pitty he has been on low form the last 3 or 4 matches.

Ronaldo was a great finisher, you knew he would score almost every match, but his area of influence in the pitch was so restricted, and if the team didn't supply balls, he was out of the match.

What I see now is how lucky I've been of watching live all this players: Cruyff (I had only 1 year and can't remember, but my father says he brought me to the stadium to see him live at least once in my life :P), Maradona, Koeman (the best defender ever after Beckenbauer), Romario, Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Messi...

PS: Out of C.Ronaldo (yep, he was so great 2 seasons ago and now is the 2nd best world player by far) and Messi, I think we have to go back to the 90s to find midfielders SO determinant to the game. The good thing about Messi this season he has scored an overall of 42 goals by now, and only 1 from the penalty kick. That is impressive, and I'm glad we are watching again great midfielders that can lead a team and score. The classic number "10" players I grew to adore.
 
Aboutreika18 said:
Nah, his 2002 form was way overrated and blown out of proportion.

He wasn't even the best player at the World Cup, nor in his Brazil side.
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Gotta disagree there, in WC 2002 he scored impressive 8 goals. That's more than what he scored in WCs 1998 and 2006 put together. That's the highest WC scoring in the modern era. Most strikers ended up with 5 or 6 goals for the past decades.

I think he was the best in that side, even though Rivaldo and Ronaldinho made it all possible in that match against England.
 
drekkard said:
PS: Out of C.Ronaldo (yep, he was so great 2 seasons ago and now is the 2nd best world player by far) and Messi, I think we have to go back to the 90s to find midfielders SO determinant to the game. The good thing about Messi this season he has scored an overall of 42 goals by now, and only 1 from the penalty kick. That is impressive, and I'm glad we are watching again great midfielders that can lead a team and score. The classic number "10" players I grew to adore.
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I used to like that Croatian midfielder in Milan. Thought he was very creative. Think his name was Boban?
 
Yep, he was brilliant, but his performances lacked a lot of consistency, which is something that seems to be tied with very creative people. That's why creative players that perform consistently are so scarce and are so valuable to us fans.

And seems to be the same reason why coaches have a history of love/hate with this kind of players. Unfortunately, currently most coaches prefer athletes over geniuses, since football got more "universal" and the african strong-type of player (strong, fast, with high stamina) has become quite a norm for all midfields. I would prefer Roger Milla anyday, but that's because I'm a romantic.
 
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