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FC Barcelona Thread

Ernestito said:
i really feel blessed to be able to watch messi play.
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I feel truly honoured as well!

Sometimes when watching Messi, I feel like I'm dreaming! :WORSHIP:

He's just RIDICULOUSLY good. Too good to be true.... :CONFUSE:
I'm waiting for the day we find out he's on some kind of strong performance enhancer or something, because this is UNREAL!
 
gerd said:
To Runedge: so Best can never be one of the best players ever because he nevery won the World Cup ? Giggs ? Schmeichel ? Cantona ? Chr. Ronaldo? Rooney ? The best player at the moment must be somebod who won a World Cup ? Materazzi ? Viera? Romario?
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Dont get me wrong. I'm not saying you need stats to back up a good player. I'm just saying that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and its just about what you prefer really. Remember that goal Gerrard scored against Olympiakos? That goal and that moment felt more magical to me than most of what Messi has shown. And I'm a United fan, and I hate Gerrard :LOL:. Ronaldo has also produced moments like that for us, and along with his natural ability is why I believe in some ways he's better than Messi. But again like I said its a matter of opinion.

But lets say we got ten random people to sit at a table and come a definative conclusion of who is the best player on the planet, how would you do it? Opinions can be discussed but no one can deny stats. And in that case, Ronaldo wins.
 
RuneEdge said:
But lets say we got ten random people to sit at a table and come a definative conclusion of who is the best player on the planet, how would you do it? Opinions can be discussed but no one can deny stats. And in that case, Ronaldo wins.
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Thats exactly why I said Messi isn't even the best of his era.

And a new element should be added. I've never seen Messi play well for Argentina. Plus, many argentines criticize him because of his poor perfomances with the celeste. I remember when some walls were painted with sentences like "Messi no eres argentino" (Messi isn't argentine) or "Messi puto" (I don't even translate :LOL:). I mean, he is absolutely great in Barça but he needs to show a bit more for his country and where's the debate about the best ever (the theme of the day in Spain) ends in favour of Maradona, a truly god for his nation, respected by everyone (including River fans).

I know some Messi lovers will argue with something like this: "yeah but Ronaldo is also crap in Portugal". To be honest I'm disappointed about the recent matches but I reckon he made a great Euro 2004 and a huge 2006 WC (Euro 2008 not great at all).

PS: I like this discuss. Argue and counter-argue is a great exercise to we all, with fair play of course. :SMUG:
 
Like I said earlier, one of the best arguements in Ronaldo's favour is that, you take him away from United or Madrid, he'll still be the same player no matter where he plays. If you take Messi to another club and/or country, will Messi still be as effective? Thats something that hasnt been put to the test.
You can win Player of the Year playing for one club or playing well for one season (hence the name Player of the Year), but IMO you cant really be mentioned in the same breath as Pele or Maradona if you havent been pushed on the international stage or even a different country than what you're used to at club level. Recent legends like the brazilian Ronaldo and Zidane were amazing no matter who or where they played.
 
Argentina has the worst possible coach... Maradona, and the argentinian squad is currently an average one. If you have watched anything from them the last years, you would have seen how bad they play as a team because of Maradona poor skills as coach. Most of the time Messi and Tevez are left alone to do everything. That's why he's not performing in Argentina.

Maradona in 86 had an impressive squad around him with great players that had been 4 years preparing a team for the cup and were actually favorites to win, while in the 82 world cup (that I happened to watch live) Argentina AND Maradona were a complete flop.

Zidane was great but had around him the best generation ever of french players all together, same as Pele, a legend in a legendary team. It takes a lot of factors to win a world cup, even luck (as Italia or Greece in the euro).

Messi, as Maradona, wins matches on his own. I've yet to see Ronaldo showing that in important matches, he seems to score a lot against weak teams and fail against the big guns, not only in terms of goals, but quality of play, as last Champions final showed, he did a terrible match and ended up fighting alone, moaning and not helping his team at all. Instead, Messi can be tackled ten times, he just stans up and continue running.

About the stats thing, even though it's not the best way to choose who's better, you are only counting the positive stats you want, I mean, goals, that show a very limited perspective of the game.

You're totally ignoring assists, fouls for and against, turnovers, sending offs, long passes, passing %... and mostly when they score and how they score, not to mention playmaking. In fact, I've never seen Ronaldo playmaking at all, he's good at running with the ball and good dribbling and shooting and diving (and that's a fact), but that's all he does for the teamplay.

Messi can play (and he does most of the time) in the midfield just holding possession, distributing the ball, delivering the killer pass or just making the team play. I've never seen Ronaldo do any of that, so I can't understand how he can be most "complete" as a player. I think you're simply admiring his constitution because he's taller and has more muscles, because being a complete player is not only shooting stronger, running faster or jumping higher. Messi scores more headers than Ronaldo, by the way. Football is in the mind, and in the mind of Messi everything can happen and he sees everything. I have the feeling Ronaldo is like a horse that only runs forward.

Anyway, the best possible way to choose who's the best is time, and time will put everyone to its place.

PS: Pub talk is great now and then just so see different points of view, even if they're wrong, hehehehe. :BOP: :BOP:
 
People forget that Messi is only 22 years old.
What did Maradonna do in his first world cup? He got sent off and that's it...the famous picture of Maradonna surrounded by a dozen Belgian players gives a false image. Belgium won that match (1-0, goal by Erwin Vandenbergh, no Belgian will ever forget that) and Maradonna made no impact. Most people think that that is picture of the 1986 semi-final..it isn't it's a picture taken at the 1982 opening match (there is a Belgian player on that picture who only had one cap...that match).
And yes Argentina's 1986 had some other great players: Valdano, Burruchaga, Brown...but people tend to forget them because Maradonna was so good. Who knows that 20 years from now people will have forgotten Xavi, Iniesta, Eto'o and Henry because Messi overshadowed them... At the time players like Burruchaga and Valdano were had the same status as Xavi and Eto'o now...

Messi already has won more with Barcelona that Maradonna in his whole club carreer. I'm not saying that Messi is better than Maradonna yet (let alone Pele who was much better than Maradonna), i'm just saying that there really shouldn't be no discussion who is the best right now. Ronaldo and Rooney are great players, (and IMHO Rooney is the better of those two) but Messi is so much better.
 
I remember that game.. Also remember him being sent off against Brazil.

maradona.jpg


sorry to hijack the thread! Messi is not, from what i've seen, prone to petulance, therefore, this is my eyes elevates him to a higher plain than other would-be greats in this current climate.
 
LOL............................some of this is a great read, talking about people's speed, power, ffs, even their physique (that's the best) - guess that means someone like Ade Akinbiyi could be deemed better than Cantona or Bobby Charlton or the like...................LOL.

I can't believe so much in-depth rattlings for someone making a comment.

For me the best player (maybe that should be more 'exciting' or 'enjoyed') I've watched is Maradona, then Zidane, but I think Messi is fast become the most exciting player I've ever saw.


FD
 
drekkard said:
Messi, as Maradona, wins matches on his own. I've yet to see Ronaldo showing that in important matches, he seems to score a lot against weak teams and fail against the big guns, not only in terms of goals, but quality of play, as last Champions final showed, he did a terrible match and ended up fighting alone, moaning and not helping his team at all. Instead, Messi can be tackled ten times, he just stans up and continue running.
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First of all, other than the header Messi scored in the last final, he wasnt much of an influence that day. Xavi and Iniesta ran the show that night. A year before that, Messi came to Old Trafford and got nothing too.
Secondly, why are you comparing Ronaldo to the one you saw last season? A year before that he scored 42 including our only goal in the Champions League final. And he scored in pretty much all the important games that year too. So saying he doesnt show up when needed is untrue. Maybe if he didnt have his mind set on moving to Madrid and we hadnt bought Berbatov to mess up our system, he might have still been doing just as well. And a lot of his whining and diving is just a reputation he's built up from his younger days. Yes he still does it from time to time but you'd be a liar if you still called him a diver now. And 2 years ago (and also especially after the WC2006 incident), if he was tackled, he'd always jump back up without complaining cuz he had a point to prove. I guess he only complains now cuz he has achieved most of what he wants. Complacency can hurt a lot of top players. Look at Ronaldinho now. Ronaldo IMO is at that point where he'll either carry on being great or drop like Ronaldinho has done recently, but this is all in the players hand and he needs to make the right choices in life to do this. Thats why the true greats are people like Zidane who played at the highest level into his 30s. But like you said, only time will tell with Messi cuz he's still young. If he's still as good by 26 in 4 years time, then I'd start to think he deserves to be mentioned with the greats.
 
RuneEdge said:
Yes he still does it from time to time but you'd be a liar if you still called him a diver now.
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You clearly don't watch Madrid matches, don't you? He's averaging an incredible dive every match, and the last ones against Valladolid and Sporting should be considered Platinum Awards for diving. Granted he's also tackled hardly now and then, but also Messi does and he never dives, he simply won't fall and go on. There's a great difference in attittude between both.

PS: You're right Ronaldo 2 years ago was absolutely incredible, but last year he didn't show in the big matches and this year neither. It's 2 years. Messi last year in the Champions final did some good plays, but was an average game from him (1 goal, 2 nearly chances created by himself, 2 fouls in front of the area that Xavi nearly scored...). And the year before, at old trafford, it was his first match after 3 months of injury and wasn't fit at all. Ronaldo has got some injuries this year, too, let's hope both are fit and at the best conditions for the match at bernabeu, it can be a great game!
 
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IMHO Messi was very influential in that final...and this in the first instance by his unselfish attitude (but there was much more than that).

You are very biased Rune...if Ronaldo hadn't played for Man Utd...you wouldn't even have considered him.
 
nah Ronaldo has proven to be deadly vs Arsenal from `05 hate to admit it. Lets see what messi can do even though ronaldo did it to a top Arsenal side then and he was young. Messi looks like a baby elephant and Ronaldo is a dream on the eyes well not my eyes :LOL: so being ugly helps to keep you humble :LOL: ...Rune it the most level headed blokes ( add your comments )imo and I know Rune from `05 days
 
Messi is well on his way to being one of the greatest.

It's amazing what he's achieved at only 22.

It's just unfortunate that he has that clueless Maradona as his coach in the NT.

Ronaldo has nothing on him and this is coming from a United fan.
 
drekkard said:
You clearly don't watch Madrid matches, don't you? He's averaging an incredible dive every match, and the last ones against Valladolid and Sporting should be considered Platinum Awards for diving. Granted he's also tackled hardly now and then, but also Messi does and he never dives, he simply won't fall and go on. There's a great difference in attittude between both.

PS: You're right Ronaldo 2 years ago was absolutely incredible, but last year he didn't show in the big matches and this year neither. It's 2 years. Messi last year in the Champions final did some good plays, but was an average game from him (1 goal, 2 nearly chances created by himself, 2 fouls in front of the area that Xavi nearly scored...). And the year before, at old trafford, it was his first match after 3 months of injury and wasn't fit at all. Ronaldo has got some injuries this year, too, let's hope both are fit and at the best conditions for the match at bernabeu, it can be a great game!
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Yeah, I dont watch many Madrid games, just highlights whenever I get the chance. Most of my point is based on how he played for us.
With the diving, yes he used to dive for us but it reached the point where even the manager had to have words with him so it stopped happening. I can only assume that no one in Madrid tells him what to do cuz he's "such a big superstar" so he continues to dive again.
As for his performances, the reason why 2 years ago was his peak was cuz he made it clear straight after beating Chelsea in the CL final that he wants to move to Madrid. We were lucky to get another season out of him thanks to the manager convincing him to stay longer but the whole of last season he looked like someone who didnt want to be here. Even though he got something like 25 goals, he just didnt look like he cared anymore. When he's motivated, he's one of the deadliest players on the planet. Last season was Ronaldo when he's not even trying. I can only imagine how he'd perform under a manager like Mourinho cuz no one mentally prepares a squad like him IMO.
If theres anything that gets Messi ahead of Ronaldo, its is his personality and being surrounded by good people. Ronaldo is like a spoilt child and needs someone to put an arm around him. But under the right guidance, he's the better player IMO.

gerd said:
You are very biased Rune...if Ronaldo hadn't played for Man Utd...you wouldn't even have considered him.
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1. Thats not true.
2. Calling someone biased is rich coming from you
3. There's no need for very bold accusations like that in a discussion where everyone is making constructive arguments.
 
Some people have Messi as their avatar. Doesnt mean a thing. To be honest, its mostly down to laziness that its still there. Should have updated it with a Rooney one by now.
 
It wasn't meant as an insult, if you think so: i'm sorry.
And why would i be biased ?
Is it because you think i hate Man Utd (which is far from the truth)? Well let's say for the sake of argument that i do hate Man Utd. Did it ever stop me from finding players like Giggs, Cantona, Schmeichel, Scholes absolute top players...as a matter of fact, all these players are much better than Ronaldo IMO.
It's true that Ronaldo had one absolutely stunning season, but after that he became self-conscious and developed a prima donna attitude. I always thought in the long term Man Utd are better off without him and now it proves that they are already doing superb the season after he left. I think Man Utd are better as a team now that he's gone and Antonio Valencia has proved to be a great sub for him...individually he's not that brilliant but i'm quite sure Rooney is delighted with Valencia. To me Valencia is together with Vermaelen the best transfer in the premier league.

A real football fan can appreciate players from other clubs too...i consider myself a Spurs fan (although you would say that i'm not a fan) and the football i like most (with Barcelona's) is Arsenal...i think that would be impossible for you. And i'm not writing this to hurt you or even to judge you (who am i to judge people), but because that explains why we always seem to clash with each other (and frankly i'm getting tired of it...i'm convinced that you are a nice guy, but maybe not to talk about football...maybe one day we should discuss art, literature, music or women...).

PS: one more thing. When asked what Cantona thought his best ever action was, he talked about an assist...Ronaldo would never think about that. He has brilliance but lacks grace towards team mates.
 
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But judging someone's ability and judging someone's character is two different discussions. Yes they are linked but if you're talking about how good someone is on the pitch, his personality shouldnt get in the way of that. Thats like saying John Terry is a bad defender cuz he shags other people's wives. If the football world was a big movie, Ronaldo may be perceived by many as the villain, but he'd still be the best villain you'll find today.
 
Ronaldo and Romario are the best. Messi is just doing a Henry. Great for club and shit for country.










Imo ;)
 
RuneEdge said:
But judging someone's ability and judging someone's character is two different discussions. Yes they are linked but if you're talking about how good someone is on the pitch, his personality shouldnt get in the way of that. Thats like saying John Terry is a bad defender cuz he shags other people's wives. If the football world was a big movie, Ronaldo may be perceived by many as the villain, but he'd still be the best villain you'll find today.
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I completely understand what you're saying. Ronaldo is shit because he dives. As much as Maradona is because he snorts coke.
 
Lami said:
I completely understand what you're saying. Ronaldo is shit because he dives. As much as Maradona is because he snorts coke.
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But you two don't understand what i am trying to say.
In short (read my previous posts if you want the long version):

It's not about Ronaldo's diving, i think i never mentioned in this thread.
Football is a team sport, Ronaldo is too much of an individualist to be the perfect football player (and now you should read what i wrote about last year's CL final: Ronaldo wanted to prove himself and Messi wanted the team to win the final...).
 
But that again is down to their personality, not ability. Look at Ronaldo for the two years before the last one when he was a team player. That's when Ronaldo was at his best. Theres a reason why Ronaldo's performances went up every year he was with the club but went down in his last year.
 
gerd said:
the football i like most (with Barcelona's) is Arsenal
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It's because you never saw Benfica mate. :LOL:

gerd said:
Football is a team sport, Ronaldo is too much of an individualist to be the perfect football player
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At this point I can't agree with you. I will give you an example: 21st February 2010 - Real Madrid beat Villareal 6-2. Cristiano scores 1 goal and assists Higuain in 2 ocasions.
When you saw Cristiano outside the pitch you watch a selfish and arrogant guy but in the field he works for the team (this is probably the main reason he didn't score for Portugal in the WC Qualifies but he made some crucuial plays to the team).
But ok I agree that Messi is much more a team player. No discuss about it. I just wanted to dismiss the myth about that Ronaldo's individualism.

An article comparing Messi and Ronaldo:
http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1956...uisition-is-cristiano-ronaldo-a-more-complete
 
The_Special_One said:
An article comparing Messi and Ronaldo:
http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1956...uisition-is-cristiano-ronaldo-a-more-complete
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That article has the quality level of marca and sport articles, so it's crap. Saying Ronaldo is a "9" on leadership when he's the first to moan to his teammates when he's not scoring is a bit laughable in terms of "leadership".

The thing is that all the qualities about Ronaldo are based on power or physic constitution, while all the things that make Messi a great player are things no other footballer can do.

Watch highlights of both, and Messi does things that only Maradona and Ronaldo (il fenomeno, the good one :P) could do, and only once per season. Messi is doing them regularly. The thing sRonaldo do are great, but I've never seen him doing things other people couldn't do, he nevers makes me think "wow what an amazing thing he's done", other than some free kick now and then.

PS: About the shooting, take notice that Messi is better in accuracy while Ronaldo is better on power, but overall I think they are both equally deadly when they have a clear shot and are the best finishers right now alongside Rooney.
 
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On a serious note, I don't support all the G.O.A.T discussions/arguments/debates etc. I don't believe there is only one. What I believe is that every great player has something unique about him, and none totally better than the other, because no player is perfect. No one player can do EVERYTHING.

So, I don't believe in a G.O.A.T, I believe in Legends. To me a Legend is one who can change a game at any point. It all depends if they're switched on or off. Once they're switched on, they're unstoppable.

Messi's ball control with pace is amazing.
Beckham's perfect crosses and freekicks are as sweet as ally oops and 3 pointers in basket ball.
Zidane's, a genius, slow long legs super ball control is like watching someone just standing there with the ball in his hands with a bunch of kids jumping around trying to reach his hand to no avail.
Ronaldo de Lima... I don't know what to say.. A real Phenomenon.
Ronaldinho, hell, I thought ball juggling entertainers can never be great players. He made it happen.
Henry runs with the ball like its a yo-yo and scores in a Henry-esque way (I actually thought he started the whole "right footed player running off the left flank and puts the ball in the net like he's passing" trait).
And countless more who I'd never do justice, like Roberto Baggio, Batistuta, Enzo Schifo, etc.

Imo, of course.
 
gerd said:
Of course, forums are pointless that's their charm...
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Its not the forum, its the theme of the discussion. Do you care to have a discussion about why i like red and you like blue (for example)? Does that seem logic? Then why discuss if Ronaldo is better or worse then Messi? Isn't it all down to personal opinion? Then why even care to discuss such thing if its unexplainable? Want to discuss what's going to happen to us after we're dead?
Again, pointless discussion.
 
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