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FC Barcelona Thread

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I think many of you are exaggerating. I mean, the kid is brilliant, a superb talent and a power of nature but the greatest ever? c'mon, let's be conscious. He's only 22, many things can happen willy-nilly. In my opinion he isn't even the best of his era. I prefer Ronaldo as I think he is a much more complete player. But ok is always the same question. Who's better? LeBron or Kobe? Federer or Nadal? Ronaldo or Messi? I prefer the first ones, others prefer the second ones. A question of taste.
 
Best player on the planet? Theres no arguing that. If he wants to be the best player ever, he needs to win the World Cup for his country like Maradona did.
 
The_Special_One said:
In my opinion he isn't even the best of his era. I prefer Ronaldo as I think he is a much more complete player.
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You are so biased it's ridiculous. Ronaldo is a very good player, no one can't argue that, but Messi is miles ahead of the rest. Ronaldo most complete? How many assists does Ronaldo per season? How many times he makes the whole team play? Does he do long passes? Does he steals many balls? How many times has he appeared in important matches? Messi has even scored more headers than Ronaldo this season (look at the numbers), not to mention he does more assists and contributes more to the teamplay. And Messi is not even taking the penalties and is the top scorer of Europe alongside Rooney.

In fact there's something Ronaldo does more than Messi, he dives like an olympic diver and moans for 90 minutes, even to his teammates.

Messi may play at a good level for 2 or 3 more years to be recognized by the whole media, maybe, but go ask people in Spain what they think about him. Ask other professional players. Look how barcelona players put their arms to the head in astonishment match after match.

You'll only find some fanatics from Madrid that won't recognize it, the same people that last year said in despair that Robben was better than Messi. Stop reading the spanish press (from madrid or barcelona, it doesn't matter, spanish press is shit).
 
To be fair, you cant compare him to Ronaldo based on this season. Ronaldo was at his best 2 years ago.
 
I must admit, 10 goals in 4 games is verging on the ridiculous.

He is out of this world at the minute, probably topping last years form.

Wonder whats happened lately, because it's only been a month or two when he's been like this, before he was still good, but it wasn't last years good.

RuneEdge said:
To be fair, you cant compare him to Ronaldo based on this season. Ronaldo was at his best 2 years ago.
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I still think he was better to watch and more unplayable in 06/07.
 
drekkard said:
You are so biased it's ridiculous...
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Can't you accept others' opinion? I think the biased one is on the other side…

Ridiculous is naming Messi the greatest ever when you saw the likes of Maradona (probably the best), Zico (a genious) or Zidane (my favourite since I watch football).

Physic, power, strong, speed, free kick hability, head hability. That's why I appointed Ronaldo as a more complete player. Ok, you're right. Numbers this season show Messi is in a better shape. But push the film back and pay attention at the red devil in the number 7 shirt. Are you watching the movie? Golden boot, Ballon D’Or, FIFA World Player of the Year, FIFA Goal of the Year,...

Olympic diver? Really? I’m shock!
José Mourinho said:
Barcelona is a cultural city with many theater. Lionel Messi has learn a lot, he has become proficient in acting. It was not a red card. The kid Messi is not just a very good footballer. He is more than that. He jumps and he provoked the contact with Del Horno, who is then sent off. I don't think I can talk about the game after that it was not a proper game, but I'm proud of my players.
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Well, this "acting" costed José a Champions League in 2006.

And I won't stop reading spanish press. I read spanish press as well I read portuguese, italian, french, brazilian and english press the make my own judgment.

PS: In some way I could be biased by the nationality (I tend to push for the portuguese) but never by the club. Do you know who is my favorite player? Andrés Iniesta and doesn't seem he plays in a white shirt...
 
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I don't really get this urge of finding the individual best at a collective game.

If the guy is gonna take credits for numbers, thats alright its an absolute-ish thing, the guy that score more goals get the golden boot,
even though there are loads of factors that affect scoring, like the league and even the team the guy is playing.

In collective sports you can't get precise facts like saying Usain Bolt is the fastest.

And to compare every aspect of someones game is even worse, there's no doubt Messi is on another level now,
but so was Ronaldinho once, Barca fans forgot that already? The guy doing wonderful things at Bernabeu and being applauded by Madrid fans.

Thats whats individual football is about imo, unforgettable moments.
Messi already wrote several of these and all we should hope for is that he writes more, by winning Leagues, World Cups (erm maybe not WCs :P) or even single historical moments.

For example I still remember one epic moment from an argentine, was Redondo at Old Trafford,
I was just a brazilian kid back there and we all know brazilian aren't supposed to like argentines, but that day I was amazed by his class and was one of those moments you learn something about football.
I'm an open minded football fan today and a little bit was thanks to that moment, and several others off course.
If Messi manage to do this for people of his generation, me included :P as I still have a lot to learn, thats what he can do individually speaking.

But yea he is on fire.
 
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matherto said:
I still think he was better to watch and more unplayable in 06/07.
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Well his best season statistically was 08/09. Not sure how you think he was better in 06/07 but feel free to explain.

But the point about the comparison being unfair is cuz Ronaldo hasnt played what some would regard as a proper season.
Like the poster above me pointed out, you cant get precise figures to show who's more talented in a collective game. To me its all about the memories the player creates. Its funny that Sauce mentioned Ronaldinho cuz I was thinking about writing a thread comparing him at his peak and Messi as he is right now. If you're gonna compare players based on who is more of a joy to watch then I still think Ronaldinho in his prime wins my vote followed by Ronaldo (for reasons that are too long to discuss for this conversation lol). To put it simply, if football ceased to exit and I looked back on the sport 20 years later, I'll think of Zidane, Ronaldo (Brazil), Ronaldinho, etc first, maybe even Cristiano Ronaldo. When I think of Messi, the first thing that comes to mind is a very gifted player who has amazing ball control. But so did Ali Karimi except Messi has a lot more to his game and plays at a higher level.

The only technical way of comparing players would be to count goals, assists, etc. If we're gonna count goals, take a look at the tally for this season

Wayne Rooney
33 goals in 39 games = 0.84 per game

Lionel Messi
34 goals in 38 games = 0.89 per game

Cristiano Ronaldo
22 goals in 24 games = 0.91 per game

Now Messi has been consistantly good for the whole season but it was only because of his performance in the last 7 days that we're here discussing this. The truth is, Ronaldo still holds a better goal ratio which makes you wonder where he would stand in this "Best player in the world" discussion if he had played as many games as the everyone else. Another thing to consider is that players usually go through spells like this. I remember when we (United) when on a run of about 5 games where we scored 4 goals in each. Even Defoe once score 5 in one game. But those were just short periods when they were in form. A player doesnt win WPOTY based on his performance over a 7 day period. Take the last 4 games away from Messi and he'd be on 0.70 per game. What does that tell you about his consistancy compared to Ronaldo's?

This may seem biased to some of you Messi lovers but if Rooney played a weak side in his next game and scored 4 goals, we'd probably be talking him up too.
 
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I think its way to far to say Messi is one of the best ever but he clearly is IMO currently the best in the world and has (currently) that little bit more than Ronaldo and Rooney.

I rated Ronaldo very highly in 06/07 and then in 07/08 he was equally impressive but in a statistical point of view I thought if he could combine the two he'd be numero uno but I can't see it now. he's a pure CF which is a shame as I prefer C.Ronaldo the winger or hybrid Winger/Striker as it brings out more of his overall quality's. I also think as a player I can't see him improving any way.

Rooney this season has more established himself within the pack I think and should just be happy with that, unlike the other 2 who I think Rooney has certain qualities which can improve on from this season, He's been in great form but Id say Passing, Dribbling and long range shooting are things which he can perform better at and know he's got the confidence I think he'll release those qualities over the next 2 or 3 seasons.

Personally I think the 3 of them will fight it out for the World Gongs for the considerable future but when it comes to the best I'd say Messi is 1 with Ronaldo and Rooney sharing 2 (Ronaldo is currently 2 but I think Rooney will bridge that gap)
 
The_Special_One said:
Who's better? LeBron or Kobe? Federer or Nadal? Ronaldo or Messi?
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1. Jordan
2. Federer
3. Ronaldo is more of a complete player, but in terms of raw footballing skill, no one gets close to Messi, so I say Messi.


LeBron/Jordan is a lot like Ronaldo/Messi now that I think about it.

LeBron and Ronaldos bodys are like machines, very powerfull and unstoppable, they're Terminators.

Jordan and Messi are pure skill, finesse, artistry.
 
you manutd fans are over the top :LOL: Rooney has 1 good run and now lets compare him to messi .... no one cares for fat rooney but you lots :LOL:

Messi is younger than Rooney how embarrassing is this! I rate Torres better than Rooney at least Torres will win something for his country. Anyways messi and Ronaldo are both great players and Rooney is good for mutd. Who ever wins CL and League trophies might get the accolade and that`s from a neutral stand point No bias added! :SMUG:
 
The_Special_One said:
Can't you accept others' opinion? I think the biased one is on the other side…

Ridiculous is naming Messi the greatest ever when you saw the likes of Maradona (probably the best), Zico (a genious) or Zidane (my favourite since I watch football)
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Precisely, my original post said "Best player I've seen live". I've actually watched the likes of Cruyff, Maradona, Van Basten, Romario, Rivaldo, Ronaldo (the best one, not the current one :JAY:), Zidane, Ronaldinho and many other players ... LIVE! I've watched them all at their peek and in many games all of them. And I tell you, I had never seen anyone so incredibly skilled at the game. If Ronaldinho had had at least 4 seasons at his peek, he would be considered in the top 5 of all times, because that man was pure genius. But Messi is already in its 5th season and has done and showed to me much more than all of the names that I stated.

Have you seen him play live? Have you seen Maradona and all the other play live in the stadium? It's simply that this kid is the most skilled player I've watched kicking a ball, but to really appreciat it, you must see him live. When you see the speed at which he does things with your own eyes, then you'll understand.

I know football is a team sport, look what barcelona achieved last year by playing like a team. This year, teamplay is far from last season, that's why Messi is shining even more. I would prefer the team to perform better than the individual, of course.

But as someone said, there are those defining moments you get to experience in life. There are a lot of memorable moments I can recall now, the thing with Messi is not his numbers (impressive), but HOW he does things. He takes the ball 40 meters away from goal, dribbles everyone and scores. He must have scored at least 10 goals as great as Maradona's famous one by now. Simply not in a world cup, but anyway I'm shocked at how many incredible things he's done with only 22 years.
 
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very nice post sauce.... as always, afterall ;)

seriously guys, what's with all this urge to find "the greatest thing"??
what's the point in labelling a player as "the best in the world" or "the best ever"? does it make u appreciate his performances more? i just don't get this frenzy.

messi is an amazing player and it's great that we're having a chance to witness such a pure talent. and that's it.
why do we always have to categorize, rank everything we see..... who cares who's the greatest player on the planet or the greatest player ever.... what kind of difference would it make to establish, beyond any doubt, who is better between messi and ronaldo or messi and maradona?

besides why wasting your time and energies on such a useless task. u will never be able to establish "who's the best one" , for the simple reason that individual rankings don't apply to football.
as sauce pointed out, football is not like other sports. we can say usain bolt is the fastest man on earth, but football is different......
because football players play in different roles, and each role has his own parameters and criteria..... u're all mad about offensive players.... but who decided that the best player has to be an offensive player? do defenders have less of an impact in your opinion?
u all talk about messi or maradona or crujff..... what if i tell you that IMO none of em is the best ever.... what if i tell ya that beckembauer is the greatest.... or baresi... or maldini... could u tell me "no mate, u are definitely wrong"?
no, u couldn't. because, unlike other sports, football is a mix of athleticism and art..... and art doesn't bear rankings.
no one can say that leonardo was definitely better than picasso, exactly as no one can tell messi is better than ronaldo. no one can say caravaggio was better than van gogh, exactly as no one can say messi is better than maradona.

each player is an artist in his very own way. and that makes each player absolutely unique and uncomparable to anyone else. so let's just enjoy that footballing demi-god that messi became and forget about all those ranking bullshits and stupid comparisons.

btw, man! messi is really on fire right now!!:SHOCK: that's impressive... even for his standards.
 
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Why are people rooting for rooney? imho fabregas is better than rooney. messi is however the best player at the moment
 
I agree with your post zio, and maybe I was carried by euphoria after witnessing (again and in zaragoza's stadium) another exhibition by him.

By the way, I think it's totally fair to think about the "best one" when you talk about personal oppinions. After all, I was stating things I've seen live in a stadium, as I did yesterday in Zaragoza. Truly Beckenbauer must be one of the best players in history (Koeman and Baresi are there also in my oppinion) but speaking of players I've seen live, including all sorts of player, nothing has striken me more than watching this fellow play live. I'm talking about the way this man can sprint other players and dribble them all with ease with the ball literally sawed to his boots, and when necessary, deliver a deadly pass. I had never seen anything like it in a stadium.
 
drekkard said:
By the way, I think it's totally fair to think about the "best one" when you talk about personal oppinions
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sure it is fair, mate. i mean, there's no harm in that. but it's deceptive.
and it's deceptive even when we circumscribe the whole matter to our personal opinions... as we shouldn't even trust our personal opinions. let me make myself more clear.

u watched both maradona and messi live. but the maradona u saw, as a barcelona fan, wasn't the legendary maradona. the "barcelona maradona" was defeinitely a very talented player.... but nothing more than a "cassano-like" talented player.
it's in italy that maradona truly developed as a player and become a legend. so that's the maradona u should consider, not the barcelona one. ;)

second point: between maradona and messi there are 20 years.... and in those 20 years football has changed hugely. so it's impossible to compare a football player from the '90s to a modern footballer, as they almost played a different sport.

third point: even our subjective opinions aren't reliable, coz our memory plays tricks on us. let me make an example. when totti reached his peak, watchin him playing was just unbelievable.... it was like watching a videogame... so, at some point, i started asking myself if totti actually reached maradona's level (as i've seen maradona playing "live" too). but that was because, after so many years, i forgot what a god maradona actually was. and it didn't happen just with totti. it also happened wih zidane.
but then, every once in a while, i put on an old tape of a napoli match from the late 80s.... and then my perspective changes. as soon as i watch maradona playing again, i actually put everyone else's performances in the right focus (totti, zidane, ronaldo, baggio, messi).
memories fade with time, and that doesn't allow us to put things (or players) in the right perspective.:))

if u would have asked me about ferdinand last season, i would have told u he's pretty much on nesta's level. but that's because nesta almost didn't play for more than 2 years and i forgot what a god he is. then at the beginning of this season, i saw nesta playing again and then i thought "man i didn't remember he was that good.... he makes ferdinand look like an average player"

so, long story short, it's definitely "not unfair" to compare players (even only the ones we saw "live")..... but it's deceptive.... and pretty much pointless. :))
 
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RuneEdge said:
Sometimes freedom of speech is a bad thing...
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Berbatov's better than rooney :)

seriously why are you guys arguing whos better than who? its a very subjective matter and of course united fans will say rooney or ronaldo is and of course barcelona fans will support messi.

No one is a winner here in this discussion. from a none bias position, messi for me is better then rooney. his flair, vision, finishing and skill puts him slightly above rooney.
 
lo zio said:
u watched both maradona and messi live. but the maradona u saw, as a barcelona fan, wasn't the legendary maradona. the "barcelona maradona" was defeinitely a very talented player.... but nothing more than a "cassano-like" talented player.
it's in italy that maradona truly developed as a player and become a legend. so that's the maradona u should consider, not the barcelona one. ;)
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That's whereyou don't get me. I didn't watch the italin Maradona live, nor I was in Mexico in 86, so I CAN'T compare current Messi with that Maradona. I am talking about people I have WATCHED LIVE.I've watched the best Ronaldo (il fenomeno), the best Ronaldinho and the best Messi, and probably a 85% Maradona (even if he didn't explode at Barcelona, I remember lots of impressive things I watched him doing, amazing stuff). I've seen Ronaldinho put people on foot every 5 minutes (even at the Bernabeu), but Messi tops everything I've seen. I'm talking for myself!

Zio, which is the most amazing football moments you've lived in a stadium? Did you watch Maradona then? (I envy you, as I envy people who watched the Milan of Sacchi, people who watched the 74 world cup, etc... by the way, I was in the stadium in Brazil-Italia in 82, probably one of the best matches ever in old Espanyol's Sarrià Stadium, 100 meters from home).
 
jonneymendoza said:
Berbatov's better than rooney :)

seriously why are you guys arguing whos better than who? its a very subjective matter and of course united fans will say rooney or ronaldo is and of course barcelona fans will support messi.

No one is a winner here in this discussion. from a none bias position, messi for me is better then rooney. his flair, vision, finishing and skill puts him slightly above rooney.
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Like I've said before, "who's better?" is a matter of opinion, statistics arent. So if you want a definate answer, its Ronaldo. :SMUG:

Another thing to consider is that Ronaldo played in the Premiership (a lot more physical) and has kept his form going into La Liga. We can only wonder how well Messi would do in England every week.
 
Zio, which is the most amazing football moments you've lived in a stadium? Did you watch Maradona then?
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yep, i did. half of my family is from napoli, and lived there for a few years (from 1988 to 1992... exactly the maradona era).
i was really lucky as my uncle (my aunt's husband, to be precise) was napoli's football director those days (he had pretty much the same role beguiristain has in barca), so i got daily access to napoli's clubhouse and got to know all the players in person (diego included).
i can actually say i've played "torello" with diego, careca and alemao, and had lunch with them (at the same table) on several occasions. i was 10 years old..... nice memories :))
i still have giuliani's and taglialatela's gloves, careca's autograph and a maradona shirt that he actually wore in an official match.
i've even been a "ballboy" in a napoli-bari match (what an experience that was!)

as for the most epic moment i lived in a stadium, that'd be a tricky question to answer. i've seen some unbelievable performances "live" from maradona, totti and zidane..... but if i had to single out a specific play..... i would probably pick 2 baggio goals.
the one he scored against napoli in 1989
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVIJlB2F8Rk&feature=related
and the one he scored against cecoslovacchia in 1990
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paVHpTB_pG0
i was at the stadium on both circumstances.... i guess we can say those are the 2 most epic moments i witnessed from a stadium. :))

no need to say if i had lived in barcelona in the last few years, there would also be lots of messi moments in my list, but sadly i haven't been in barca (and at the nou camp) since 2005.
 
I agree that saying who is the best player is pub talk, but i love pub talk and nonsensical discussions.
The comparision between Messi and Ronaldo. To me Messi is by far the better player. He's more professional, mentally stronger. Take last year's CL final as the best example. In the press this was all about: who is the best player Messi or Ronaldo...
In the first few minutes of the match (until Eto'o's goal to be precise). Man Utd was the better team and had a few good chances but Ronaldo went for personal glory. Throughout the final Messi was the perfect team player who sometimes went solo if there was no better placed team mate. All the fuzz in the press did not influence Messi ( he gives the impression that he doesn't care if he's the best player or not), but it certainly influenced Ronaldo who was clearly less brilliant than usual. To Ronaldo the final was about him (and Messi), to Messi the final was about the team and winning it as a team...the beautiful irony was that Messi scored a goal with a header...the one aspect where everybody agreed that Ronaldo clearly is the better of the two...i liked that much.

To Runedge: so Best can never be one of the best players ever because he nevery won the World Cup ? Giggs ? Schmeichel ? Cantona ? Chr. Ronaldo? Rooney ? The best player at the moment must be somebod who won a World Cup ? Materazzi ? Viera? Romario?
 
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i really feel blessed to be able to watch messi play.

good point, gerd. this cartoon hits the nail on the head. :D

 
please ! :LOL: if Ronaldo was on Barca and Messi was on RM the pic would reverse.

Well , Messi giving the pen to Ibra was a good suggestion ,but then Ronaldo has done that before too! Messi `s dream is Barca and Ronaldo`s is RM ....only utd gambled and made him and made pique sort of too.
 
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