eFootball PES 2021 Discussion Thread (CONSOLES)

[Paynekiller]

I wasn't going to name and shame this guy but with comments like this, it's little wonder why PES games seem to be getting worse and why the devs are content in not making any significant gameplay improvements to Pes 2021. This kind of ignorance makes my blood boil.

 

[Damjan]

In two years playing hour after hour of PES 2019 and PES 2020 ML, total of about 8 or 9 season's worth of ML, I've gotten exactly two penalties, both of them because of odd animations where the foul in the box looked very clunky in comparison to normal fouls. Now I'm not exactly brilliant at dribbling with the right stick, but it just does my head in. What I mean to say is that those two times I've gotten a penalty they felt like freak accidents, not just because of the frequency of penalties I've experienced but also the way the animations looked.

And it goes the other way too, very rarely do I ever cause penalties simply because it seems like defending is really accurate and easy in certain situations in the box. Same as defending setpieces, almost always a relatively easy clearance where the ball just seems to appear at my player's feet.

The most frustrating thing however is when the game simply refuses to call a penalty. There's this one animation where a player gets an arm in the face and goes down with his hands to his face in pain. Anywhere on the pitch a foul with that animation is always a yellow card without exception. I've had it happen numerous times where this exact animation happened in the box yet no penalty.

It's probably less noticeable if you don't play against the AI, but I really hope this is one thing they can fix for this season update. Not getting my hopes up though.

 

[Madmac79]

I wasn't going to name and shame this guy but with comments like this, it's little wonder why PES games seem to be getting worse and why the devs are content in not making any significant gameplay improvements to Pes 2021. This kind of ignorance makes my blood boil.

Looks like somebody either completely delusional or paid to defend the game to death. His timeline of the last week is an enormous apology of whatever 2020 flaw there is lol.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

I wasn't going to name and shame this guy but with comments like this, it's little wonder why PES games seem to be getting worse and why the devs are content in not making any significant gameplay improvements to Pes 2021. This kind of ignorance makes my blood boil.

Well i can critique all aspects of the game, this guy's opinion exists no matter how weird it looks so the universe may stay in balance i guess.

 

[majuh]

I wasn't going to name and shame this guy but with comments like this, it's little wonder why PES games seem to be getting worse and why the devs are content in not making any significant gameplay improvements to Pes 2021. This kind of ignorance makes my blood boil.

That guy sounds like Anothergen from Reddit.

 

[Scottc17]

I wasn't going to name and shame this guy but with comments like this, it's little wonder why PES games seem to be getting worse and why the devs are content in not making any significant gameplay improvements to Pes 2021. This kind of ignorance makes my blood boil.

He is right to an extent although its not up to scratch 100% you can tell whos on the ball without even looking at the name plate

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

He is right to an extent although its not up to scratch 100% you can tell whos on the ball without even looking at the name plate

No way. Show me a clip please where an AI controlled Messi takes on 3-4 players or any AI controlled player for example.

 

[Paynekiller]

He is right to an extent although its not up to scratch 100% you can tell whos on the ball without even looking at the name plate

When the Ai controls players like Messi, more often than not they play like sunday league players. Complete lack of creative play by the Ai make PES2020 a dull experience.

 

[PRO_TOO]

🍕 Pizza Time!! 🍕

 

[Paynekiller]

🍕 Pizza Time!! 🍕

Thanks for sharing PRO_TOO

Hate the dull gameplay of PES2020, so the confirmation that PES2021 will be 99.9% same gameplay has convinced me to skip the final version of PES that's to be powered by the Fox engine. It's sad that the apparent last PES on current gen is ending with one of the weakest pes games on recent times.

 

[Flipper the Priest]

He is right to an extent although its not up to scratch 100% you can tell whos on the ball without even looking at the name plate

 

[Chuny]

He is right to an extent although its not up to scratch 100% you can tell whos on the ball without even looking at the name plate

 

[Scottc17]

No way. Show me a clip please where an AI controlled Messi takes on 3-4 players or any AI controlled player for example.

Ive seen it happen in my master league saves but i just wasnt recording at the time, even though the player ID isnt the best, it is still at a decent level, players like neymar and douglas costa will do skills 100%

 

[NathW90]

So if the gameplay is literally exactly the same, then what is actually the purpose of anyone buying 2021? Why does it exist?

Presumably there will also be no changes to myClub or Master League, so it's £25 for transfers, new kits (both of which we can change ourselves) and maybe some slightly different menus?

 

[Stan]

Well we dont have any info, I just hope the optimistic fans dont fell flat on their faces next year if this all turns out just a graphical upgrade and the gameplay and all the legacy issues are still there. UE is used for PES Mobile after all right?
And Konami proved themselfs wrong for many many years now, nothing to be optimistic about from my side. It will look nice? Sure it looks like. But FOX did look right however we had cutscenes for goalcelebration, static replays and PS2 entrances, horrible atmosphere, menus with loading times and these are just cosmetics. I just cant.

The way yo usee things is so easy and so easy-going. Always thake the most negative view. There are two possibilities, either you are right and then you can pat yourself on the back because you are a visionary. Eiter you are wrong and nobody will complain because everybody is happy the game is good.... People will have forgotten your predictions who are completely unauthorized (as in a wild guess).

If i would be as fed-up as you, i would stop coming to this community...

Am i happy with the direction PES has been going the last years? No.
Do i think there will ever be a game that meets our expectations? No.
Why?

Compare the way football and the knowledge around football has gone since PES5 . Since then football and even more the way it has been analyzed has completely changed. Money has changed football and the way it is presented and analyzed. At the time of PES5 there was no OPTA that has statistics about everything. Nowadays we can see every important action or situation 10 times from 8 different angles and analyzed by 21 former top players (Henry for example) or managers (Mourinho is a pundit when he is out of work). There are books like Inverting the Pyramid who explain every tactical finesse. Players like VIera, Bergkamp and Gullit write books about football that give us knowledge we never had 15 years ago. What do you expect from a football game? The only football game that tries to follow all these (r)evolutions and that desperately wants to be very up-to-date is Football Manager (i know it's a different kind of game, but just look at a match in Football Manager, is it realistic and good? No). Is Football Manager still fun? No it isn't hence why there is a game mode to play it like it used to be.

Give the development team of NBA2K (wich is a game in serious decline) all the money in the world and will they come up with a football game that meets our expectations? I honestly don't think so.

Now you can do two things: accept that and hope for the best because Konami are trying something to improve their game. Or going on like you are doing now, always being extremely negative and underlining every negative aspect. What good will that do? Nothing. Maybe you should give up on football games on go bird watching or play other games.... I don't want to hurt you or become personal (i am, i know and i apologize) but every post i read from you is exactly the same. It's all black. The truth is not black (or white), the truth is grey. I will give you one example. In this thread you imply that the development team is the cause of the negative way the franchise is going. How do you know that? Do you have inside information? Why writing things like that just at the moment Konami decided to something that takes courage and that is the only way forward not only for PES but for all sports games. The development team of NBA2K should do exactly the same after their very mediocre 2 last games... Hell, EA should do exactly the same with FIFA.

GIve them at least the chance to prove you wrong. Do i think think they will make a game that will meet your expectations? No, but maybe your (and our) expectations are unrealistic. I still played PES20 a lot. Is it perfect? Far from, but i'm 58 years old and i comefrom a time where i played Subbuteo... I can totally understand that you are fed up with PES. But we know now...

Sorry for this long post. I have nothing against you. I'm sure you mean well, but i'm bored. I barely read this thread, but today i started and stopped at one of your posts. Am i saying you can't post anymore? No, you have every right to write what you think about the game. But it's always the same song. Someone like Matt don't likes the way PES is going either but he proves his point with arguments. Maybe you should try that. No hard feelings, perhaps i should stop reading this thread, like always there is so much negativity in it.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Ive seen it happen in my master league saves but i just wasnt recording at the time, even though the player ID isnt the best, it is still at a decent level, players like neymar and douglas costa will do skills 100%

I only see the double touch and the marseilles roulette and usually the cpu hits the opponent players, gets dispossessed easily or just simply do it to showboat without any player around. Remember how in the demo Dybala went on you 1on1 with the double touch all the time or that Ronaldo was most of the time cutting in with diractional changes to shoot? Yes it was a bit overwhelming i agree but if they'd tweek the game a bit and let the players somehow balance out the dribbling/passing 2020 could have been great, but they rather instead kinda removed the ai dribbling from the game.

The way yo usee things is so easy and so easy-going. Always thake the most negative view. There are two possibilities, either you are right and then you can pat yourself on the back because you are a visionary. Eiter you are wrong and nobody will complain because everybody is happy the game is good.... People will have forgotten your predictions who are completely unauthorized (as in a wild guess).

If i would be as fed-up as you, i would stop coming to this community...

Am i happy with the direction PES has been going the last years? No.
Do i think there will ever be a game that meets our expectations? No.
Why?

Compare the way football and the knowledge around football has gone since PES5 . Since then football and even more the way it has been analyzed has completely changed. Money has changed football and the way it is presented and analyzed. At the time of PES5 there was no OPTA that has statistics about everything. Nowadays we can see every important action or situation 10 times from 8 different angles and analyzed by 21 former top players (Henry for example) or managers (Mourinho is a pundit when he is out of work). There are books like Inverting the Pyramid who explain every tactical finesse. Players like VIera, Bergkamp and Gullit write books about football that give us knowledge we never had 15 years ago. What do you expect from a football game? The only football game that tries to follow all these (r)evolutions and that desperately wants to be very up-to-date is Football Manager (i know it's a different kind of game, but just look at a match in Football Manager, is it realistic and good? No). Is Football Manager still fun? No it isn't hence why there is a game mode to play it like it used to be.

Give the development team of NBA2K (wich is a game in serious decline) all the money in the world and will they come up with a football game that meets our expectations? I honestly don't think so.

Now you can do two things: accept that and hope for the best because Konami are trying something to improve their game. Or going on like you are doing now, always being extremely negative and underlining every negative aspect. What good will that do? Nothing. Maybe you should give up on football games on go bird watching or play other games.... I don't want to hurt you or become personal (i am, i know and i apologize) but every post i read from you is exactly the same. It's all black. The truth is not black (or white), the truth is grey. I will give you one example. In this thread you imply that the development team is the cause of the negative way the franchise is going. How do you know that? Do you have inside information? Why writing things like that just at the moment Konami decided to something that takes courage and that is the only way forward not only for PES but for all sports games. The development team of NBA2K should do exactly the same after their very mediocre 2 last games... Hell, EA should do exactly the same with FIFA.

GIve them at least the chance to prove you wrong. Do i think think they will make a game that will meet your expectations? No, but maybe your (and our) expectations are unrealistic. I still played PES20 a lot. Is it perfect? Far from, but i'm 58 years old and i comefrom a time where i played Subbuteo... I can totally understand that you are fed up with PES. But we know now...

Sorry for this long post. I have nothing against you. I'm sure you mean well, but i'm bored. I barely read this thread, but today i started and stopped at one of your posts. Am i saying you can't post anymore? No, you have every right to write what you think about the game. But it's always the same song. Someone like Matt don't likes the way PES is going either but he proves his point with arguments. Maybe you should try that. No hard feelings, perhaps i should stop reading this thread, like always there is so much negativity in it.

Thats fine you obviously havent read all my posts, not that i would expect anyone to read all the posts of another user, but this just not true.
I never said also that its the development teams fault, it could be theirs too but probably the higher ups decide based on sales, marketing, resources what to improve on or invest in when it comes to PES. But some of the time they also take on the worst feedbacks that just hurts the overall game THEY made in the first place. But thats a whatever as we dont have real information on it who makes the decision here, we just see the result. Like they never fixed the OP free kicks, they never fixed the AI dribbling, they never fixed the broken referees ...for years. However it was kinda random and of course debatable that it was good a feature but the demo's foul system kinda brought back the foul system of PES5 which i pretty much adored, yet after one or two weeks they confirmed right away they "fix it" and so we left without fouls in the final game, not to mention no one asked for it but they greatly reduced the efficiency of the ai dribbling compared to the demo too.
Its just a mess what they do. And i still dont know if its incompetency or they just want to cater to whoever makes the dumbest request as we are witnessing the same since 2014(the last good and complete PES even with the bad keepers was 2013), Konami promises a great football simulator, with stats, inertia, all about the gameplay ...and usually since 2014 we get a pretty much unbalanced, usually boring gameplay with such flaws that i cant play it after 2-3 months.
Btw which arguments would you like me to back up?

 

[Stan]

I only see the double touch and the marseilles roulette and usually the cpu hits the opponent players, gets dispossessed easily or just simply do it to showboat without any player around. Remember how in the demo Dybala went on you 1on1 with the double touch all the time or that Ronaldo was most of the time cutting in with diractional changes to shoot? Yes it was a bit overwhelming i agree but if they'd tweek the game a bit and let the players somehow balance out the dribbling/passing 2020 could have been great, but they rather instead kinda removed the ai dribbling from the game.



Thats fine you obviously havent read all my posts, not that i would expect anyone to read all the posts of another user, but this just not true.
I never said also that its the development teams fault, it could be theirs too but probably the higher ups decide based on sales, marketing, resources what to improve on or invest in when it comes to PES. But some of the time they also take on the worst feedbacks that just hurts the overall game THEY made in the first place. But thats a whatever as we dont have real information on it who makes the decision here, we just see the result. Like they never fixed the OP free kicks, they never fixed the AI dribbling, they never fixed the broken referees ...for years. However it was kinda random and of course debatable that it was good a feature but the demo's foul system kinda brought back the foul system of PES5 which i pretty much adored, yet after one or two weeks they confirmed right away they "fix it" and so we left without fouls in the final game, not to mention no one asked for it but they greatly reduced the efficiency of the ai dribbling compared to the demo too.
Its just a mess what they do. And i still dont know if its incompetency or they just want to cater to whoever makes the dumbest request as we are witnessing the same since 2014(the last good and complete PES even with the bad keepers was 2013), Konami promises a great football simulator, with stats, inertia, all about the gameplay ...and usually since 2014 we get a pretty much unbalanced, usually boring gameplay with such flaws that i cant play it after 2-3 months.
Btw which arguments would you like me to back up?

I
n this very thread, you implied that the development team is to blame. Someone other reacted to that by saying that he can't believe that people who work nights would make a bad game on purpose.
I've said it lots of times, Konami's problem is not that they don't listen to the fans, but that they listen too much to the fans. Take this thread (and all the previous ones, every year), what would you learn about improvements to your game if you were a developer? Nothing, i'm afraid. A relatively high percentage of the posts are extremely negative. If you want to change something, then being negative doesn't help at all. Extreme negativity kills the franchise as much as what you call the higher ups.
And then there are people who write that (for example) the dribbling sucks (and i agree, i don't like the new dribbling system, it's counter intuïtive), but for every people who don't like it, there is somebody who does like it... what to do then? Of course i would like that they listen to only one customer: ME. But that is extremely unrealistic.

You know what worried me most, the guys we knew from the community and who went working for Konami (Asim and Andam Bhatti and i don't have anything against them), they play the game with teams like Manchester United and Milan. The big teams. I play the game with teams like Genk, Lille, Palermo, Atalanta, Real Sociedad.... The way these big teams or superstars like Messi and Ronaldo play, is not a realistic image of what football is.

PES used to be fantastich for tactics, it's sucks now. But amit all the toxicity in threads like this, nobody will notice this. Evo-web has lost all it's credibility towards Konami after PES6, when people posted things like 'i hope Seabass gets cancer' and when Adam Bhatti and Asim got tons of shit commentaries...

 

[Scottc17]

I
n this very thread, you implied that the development team is to blame. Someone other reacted to that by saying that he can't believe that people who work nights would make a bad game on purpose.
I've said it lots of times, Konami's problem is not that they don't listen to the fans, but that they listen too much to the fans. Take this thread (and all the previous ones, every year), what would you learn about improvements to your game if you were a developer? Nothing, i'm afraid. A relatively high percentage of the posts are extremely negative. If you want to change something, then being negative doesn't help at all. Extreme negativity kills the franchise as much as what you call the higher ups.
And then there are people who write that (for example) the dribbling sucks (and i agree, i don't like the new dribbling system, it's counter intuïtive), but for every people who don't like it, there is somebody who does like it... what to do then? Of course i would like that they listen to only one customer: ME. But that is extremely unrealistic.

You know what worried me most, the guys we knew from the community and who went working for Konami (Asim and Andam Bhatti and i don't have anything against them), they play the game with teams like Manchester United and Milan. The big teams. I play the game with teams like Genk, Lille, Palermo, Atalanta, Real Sociedad.... The way these big teams or superstars like Messi and Ronaldo play, is not a realistic image of what football is.

PES used to be fantastich for tactics, it's sucks now. But amit all the toxicity in threads like this, nobody will notice this. Evo-web has lost all it's credibility towards Konami after PES6, when people posted things like 'i hope Seabass gets cancer' and when Adam Bhatti and Asim got tons of shit commentaries...

Agreed, the abuse I see on here is heartbreaking, nothing will ever be achieved by name calling etc.

 

[Paynekiller]

I only see the double touch and the marseilles roulette and usually the cpu hits the opponent players, gets dispossessed easily or just simply do it to showboat without any player around. Remember how in the demo Dybala went on you 1on1 with the double touch all the time or that Ronaldo was most of the time cutting in with diractional changes to shoot? Yes it was a bit overwhelming i agree but if they'd tweek the game a bit and let the players somehow balance out the dribbling/passing 2020 could have been great, but they rather instead kinda removed the ai dribbling from the game.

The Demo definitely had much more creative play by the Ai. It's sad that in the full game the Ai are even incapable of doing a simple ball roll. I recall Adam Bhatti tweeting about how the Ai fully utilise star player uniqueness at last years E3 but after the full game was released the Ai player player ID was significantly nerfed.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

In this very thread, you implied that the development team is to blame. Someone other reacted to that by saying that he can't believe that people who work nights would make a bad game on purpose.

Anything that could be implied i cleared up in my previous comments. They either dont care or cant make a proper game. The result is there in the end since 2014. Still we can hope that it was the FOX Engine that could not be coded well as a football game and Unreal will be the salvation but...thin hope for me.

I've said it lots of times, Konami's problem is not that they don't listen to the fans, but that they listen too much to the fans. Take this thread (and all the previous ones, every year), what would you learn about improvements to your game if you were a developer? Nothing, i'm afraid. A relatively high percentage of the posts are extremely negative. If you want to change something, then being negative doesn't help at all. Extreme negativity kills the franchise as much as what you call the higher ups.

So it is the community's fault that PES went downhill? You cant be serious about it. Look at Capcom, they all go through forums still nowdays. Many people were hitting hard on Resident Evil 5 and 6 and whatever shambolic spin off game came after in the Resident Evil franchise. What the world got? Award winning, acclaimed Residnet Evil 7 and RE2 Remake.

PES used to be fantastich for tactics, it's sucks now. But amit all the toxicity in threads like this, nobody will notice this. Evo-web has lost all it's credibility towards Konami after PES6, when people posted things like 'i hope Seabass gets cancer' and when Adam Bhatti and Asim got tons of shit commentaries...

I think the majority of this forum is not on agreement with this at all. At least we dont see these posts like at all, especially since you get banned instantly so you either dont post such stuff or it gets removed right away.

 

[Paynekiller]

Agreed, the abuse I see on here is heartbreaking, nothing will ever be achieved by name calling etc.

Problem is that people like myself who criticises the games flaws are immediately branded as PES haters and are put in the same category of those who have verbally abused Konami employees. You may find it difficult to believe but some of us are critical of the game because we know it can be a great game if only. a little more effort was made. Some features like Artificial intelligence have been deliberately watered down from the demo to the final game and most (if not all) gamers base their decision to purchase a game on the strength of a demo.

 

[Ameppe]

I've said it lots of times, Konami's problem is not that they don't listen to the fans, but that they listen too much to the fans.

What?

They don't listen to the fans AT ALL. Sometimes it happens they make some improvements that were also requested by fans and so someone thinks they listened, but seriously they choose to do as they want.

That wouldn't be a problem if they knew what to do with Pes, the fact is they don't know. Their only goal is to attract more and more people to Myclub and even there they are failing because Myclub is such a boring mode it doesn't have the power to keep people coming back to play and spend money on it.

There is a lot of negativity, that is true, but if they had a clear vision about what to do they wouldn't care and follow their ideas. I think the big problem with Pes is they lack a clear leadership.
During the past we had Seabass, then Masuda until Pes 2014, who is the leader now? Who decides how will Pes develop every year, who plans a schedule to actually follow to improve the series year after year?

 

[guorfan]

When have you seen staff from konami (Adam bhatti, Robbye Ron, Lygaard, pes development fb page, pes official) hearing fans during all year? Even knowing this pes 20 had a lot of problems no one has made statements all these months, they just appears when a new game is gonna release and they have to sell it and convince fans to buy it because is going to be awesome new game and they have to sell myclub, after that and when current game is going to appear with bugs they will be silent during all year like now, thats policy from konami and they are not going to change that, thats why we are as fans feeling so sad with this situation because they do not hear us and they have lost course long time ago.

 

[Scottc17]

Problem is that people like myself who criticises the games flaws are immediately branded as PES haters and are put in the same category of those who have verbally abused Konami employees. You may find it difficult to believe but some of us are critical of the game because we know it can be a great game if only. a little more effort was made. Some features like Artificial intelligence have been deliberately watered down from the demo to the final game and most (if not all) gamers base their decision to purchase a game on the strength of a demo.

Of course, but im saying, all we do is criticise, never praise, Only know you love her (PES) when you let her go. Imagine if PES was discontinued? We should be thankful first, then critical ( not abusive)

 

[Ameppe]

Just a thought about Bhatti coming back to UK.

I think it's a complete failure. Isn't this a sign that they didn't achieve at all what Adam said when he thought he was going to be the link between fans and the dev team?

When has that really worked?

 

[rojofa]

In some ways they probably do listen too much, but to the wrong people i.e. /r/WEPES MyClub brigade.

The 2020 demo had nice dribbling and tons of fouls - when people brainlessly held R1+X+Square to pressure you online, you had the tools to evade them with simple movements/shielding and/or they would be punished with a foul for barging through you. If you backed off and timed your tackles then there were a perfectly reasonable number of fouls.

Ended up with these types of posts and sentiments rising to the top;



Then for the full game we got the complete opposite, absolutely shambolic referees that let everything go. People online can happily sprint at you full pressure for 90 minutes and rugby tackle you off the ball with no foul. They also seemed to have made dribbling worse and shielding didn't work anywhere near as well.

 

[Ameppe]

In some ways they probably do listen too much, but to the wrong people i.e. /r/WEPES MyClub brigade.

The 2020 demo had nice dribbling and tons of fouls - when people brainlessly held R1+X+Square to pressure you online, you had the tools to evade them with simple movements and/or they would be punished with a foul for barging through you. If you backed off and timed your tackles then there were a perfectly reasonable number of fouls.

Ended up with these types of posts and sentiments rising to the top;



Then for the full game we got the complete opposite, absolutely shambolic referees that let everything go. People online can happily sprint at you full pressure for 90 minutes and rugby tackle you off the ball with no foul.

With the demo i remember there was a clear problem with fouls. Yes, they were more but that doesn't mean it was good just because they were more. Referee gave fouls even when there was no foul at all. They had to fix it, but they chose the easy way. Just scrap everything and go back to the broken Pes 2019 foul system.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Of course, but im saying, all we do is criticise, never praise, Only know you love her (PES) when you let her go. Imagine if PES was discontinued? We should be thankful first, then critical ( not abusive)

I was one of the first people who went online after the demo saying DONT CHANGE A THING. I think thats enough "praise". Look where that took PES2020.
And honestly i dont like this friendship attitude, i dont have to be thankful not at all. Its a product for which i give my hard earned money for. We can be civilized for sure but in the same time i dont buy all the crap games from the PS/XB/Steam store just to be thankful. It doesnt work like that.
FYI again the Capcom example lately i bought many good RE games on both Steam and on PS4, ok they were discounted but i still tried to send my message to the devs that the demand is there for quality games.

 

[rojofa]

With the demo i remember there was a clear problem with fouls. Yes, they were more but that doesn't mean it was good just because they were more. Referee gave fouls even when there was no foul at all. They had to fix it, but they chose the easy way. Just scrap everything and go back to the broken Pes 2019 foul system.

There were cases where fouls were given for good tackles, but that's still much better than giving nothing for the other 90%+ of genuine fouls. It was annoying sometimes to give away fouls wrongly, but the general style of play required online as a result was far more patient.

 

[Ameppe]

There were cases where fouls were given for good tackles, but that's still much better than giving nothing for the other 90%+ of genuine fouls. It was annoying sometimes to give away fouls wrongly, but the general style of play required online as a result was far more patient.

Yes, i agree but the point here is they should have fixed the issues that the foul system had with following patches, not scrap everything. With that attitude, the same that brought them to completely scrap Pes 2014 gameplay, how could you hope for real improvement?

They should know that great things don't usually come after little effort. The very first Winning Eleven was unplayable, but they kept improving on it instead of scrapping everything. They had a vision, they followed it and they took the benefits of their efforts few years later.

Lately with Pes it's always one step forward, two steps backwards, it's confusing, it's messy, it's always half baked. You can see sparkles of genius in the gameplay, but they are rare because the entire gameplay is limited by systemic issues that have never really been fixed.

Foul system being broken since Pes 2017
Tactics overriding AI decisions and player positions since Pes 2018
Huge midfiled gaps since Pes 2016
Shooting system being simplified since Pes 2014