eFootball PES 2021 Discussion Thread (CONSOLES)

[༺Ƥeຮ༻]

i think PC games are only bad optimazed. When i look at PS4 Uncharted 4 or now The Last Of Us 2 with this poor hardware of the PS4?

There is Huge differences to make game for one configuration or for billion. Its almost impossible to optimize one game for all PCs in the world.

If you take only one model of video card, for example RTX 2070, it is produced by different manufacturers and each card has different performance, drivers, utility etc. This applies to almost every part in a PC.

 

[PRO_TOO]

There's a video as well, which covers mostly the same stuff in the article but the clips are a bit smoother than the GIFs;


There's the PDF for the paper as well if you wanted an even longer/technical read ;
http://graphics.cs.cmu.edu/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/BasketballSIGGRAPH2018.pdf

GTA IV used a very basic implementation of this kind of tech with the Euphoria physics, where people would try to balance themselves when they were falling etc. There was an American Football game called Backbreaker which was almost just a demo for the technology 10 years ago... Really hoping that this kind of stuff takes off with next-gen, to me it would probably be as significant as the shift from 2D to 3D.

I’m curious. If I’m, as a guy just interested in playing a good football game, watching and reading that tech stuff (almost educating myself) because I’m interested in that matter... is Konami doing the same?!
Just asking. Do they take inspiration from that kind of stuff?! I wonder if there are Konami employees involved in PES playing on PC with community mods like @Holland’s?!

 

[PRO_TOO]

This thing that some say,that they should add an option for Arcade or Sim,i don't think it is that simple..

Look what happened with 20.If they only cared about pleasing the arcadey online crowd like everyone seems to think,they would make it ridiculously fast,with no error whatsoever and more arcady in general just like the previous ones..
Instead they made the rythm and the flow more slow and more realistic with more player weight and inertia.What would someone say about that?Is it more arcady or more towards sim..?

They made the PA1 less ping pong with more error in general with shots also and introduced more misshits instead of every shot go on goal or 5cm next to the bar and brought more physicality.Again,is that more towards arcadey approach or sim?
They made the controls looser and the ball less glued to the feet(something that we were moaning about for years that the controls are too perfect and the ball too glued to the feet)What about that?Is this also towards arcade?

That's some of the reasons why i prefer 20 to the previous versions.For it's more random and realistic approach on the pitch in how it feels and plays.Although still having issues with AI and awareness,no one can deny that.

What's most people had to say about that..?That it's trash because it's too slow and boring now and they can't pass correctly because of error unless they go to PA3 and they can't control the ball and they can't shoot etc..lol
So what do these people want afterall?A more sim approach?Doesn't look like it..Cause everytime they try to bring some elements more towards sim like they did in 20 or in 14 everyone bitch about it and say how much better and fun 6 and 13 were with their weightless cockroach football logic.

Although i agree that an option for offline to be able to choose which patch version you would like to play like there is in NHL would be good.
My favoutite version of 20 was the gameplay that came with DLC 4(and yes..gameplay always changes to some degree with every patch..anyone who plays the game enough can tell..even if some people think it's all placebo and make fun about it..)so i would like to have the option to choose that when i want to play some offline matches and have a break from online which i normally play.But i don't see that happening neither in PES or FIFA.

A god damn opponent AI that at least is working like 4 years ago!

Still, I can see the positives that a lot don’t care about (anymore). a lot of stuff moaned about was fixed.... people tend to take it... but forget what they were raging about. It’s just human I guess. I’m thankful for nets, catch up bug gone, no black screen on throw ins, shielding, AI shots above goal... and more of that “minor” stuff!
again, it’s just natural human behavior. I get it.

 

[manmachine]

That, is quite truly, the dream. That's what I dream of. I don't want PES5 remastered - I don't want the best bits of my favourite PES games mushed together - I want a genuinely next-gen experience.

That video just proves that if EA or Konami thought it would be worth the investment, they could make something truly incredible. But why would you do that - everyone who would consider buying FIFA or PES, will buy them as they are. No need for increased development costs, or increased development time.

(Except Konami are building a new PES for 2021 - which has really surprised me.)

I have no idea if konami are doing anything interesting behind the scenes (my guess would be no, since they struggle to even put out a proper release this year), but EA are developing deep learning systems for years now, for AI and animations:
https://www.ea.com/seed/publications

Of course I have no idea when this will trickle down and be actually used in football games and to what extent. I'm not sure they feel any pressure and sometimes researching new tech is more about safeguarding your current investment/position so that you're not caught off guard.

 

[PRO_TOO]

I have no idea if konami are doing anything interesting behind the scenes (my guess would be no, since they struggle to even put out a proper release this year), but EA are developing deep learning systems for years now, for AI and animations:
https://www.ea.com/seed/publications

Of course I have no idea when this will trickle down and be actually used in football games and to what extent. I'm not sure they feel any pressure and sometimes researching new tech is more about safeguarding your current investment/position so that you're not caught off guard.

Yeah. „A lot of working behind the scenes“... on both grounds! Is it just marketing phrases or a real pillar to work from of?!
I just hope for a change. And by that I mean offline play would receive a big overhaul.
I believe if they’d do, that everything else followes in line....!! For the greater good, you know.

 

[Isslander]

This thing that some say,that they should add an option for Arcade or Sim,i don't think it is that simple..

Look what happened with 20.If they only cared about pleasing the arcadey online crowd like everyone seems to think,they would make it ridiculously fast,with no error whatsoever and more arcady in general just like the previous ones..
Instead they made the rythm and the flow more slow and more realistic with more player weight and inertia.What would someone say about that?Is it more arcady or more towards sim..?

They made the PA1 less ping pong with more error in general with shots also and introduced more misshits instead of every shot go on goal or 5cm next to the bar and brought more physicality.Again,is that more towards arcadey approach or sim?
They made the controls looser and the ball less glued to the feet(something that we were moaning about for years that the controls are too perfect and the ball too glued to the feet)What about that?Is this also towards arcade?

That's some of the reasons why i prefer 20 to the previous versions.For it's more random and realistic approach on the pitch in how it feels and plays.Although still having issues with AI and awareness,no one can deny that.

What's most people had to say about that..?That it's trash because it's too slow and boring now and they can't pass correctly because of error unless they go to PA3 and they can't control the ball and they can't shoot etc..lol
So what do these people want afterall?A more sim approach?Doesn't look like it..Cause everytime they try to bring some elements more towards sim like they did in 20 or in 14 everyone bitch about it and say how much better and fun 6 and 13 were with their weightless cockroach football logic.

Although i agree that an option for offline to be able to choose which patch version you would like to play like there is in NHL would be good.
My favoutite version of 20 was the gameplay that came with DLC 4(and yes..gameplay always changes to some degree with every patch..anyone who plays the game enough can tell..even if some people think it's all placebo and make fun about it..)so i would like to have the option to choose that when i want to play some offline matches and have a break from online which i normally play.But i don't see that happening neither in PES or FIFA.

Great post mate.

This game already has a simulation toggle, just put it on manual passing.

Does it make for a perfect game? No.
Could they make it better? I bloody hope so.
Is it closer to simulation than pa1 or over? One billion percent.

 

[rojofa]

That, is quite truly, the dream. That's what I dream of. I don't want PES5 remastered - I don't want the best bits of my favourite PES games mushed together - I want a genuinely next-gen experience.

That video just proves that if EA or Konami thought it would be worth the investment, they could make something truly incredible. But why would you do that - everyone who would consider buying FIFA or PES, will buy them as they are. No need for increased development costs, or increased development time.

(Except Konami are building a new PES for 2021 - which has really surprised me.)

Definitely - imagine this kind of stuff with EA's "fuck you" money behind it? It's this impressive to look at already and it's only really a proof of concept done by academic institutions or relatively small companies. Maybe bigger studios are doing their own research and implementations of the tech, but we're yet to really see much of it in games.

Rockstar is the only studio I can think of who use some variation of this concept in their games with the Euphoria physics/animation in GTA, RDR, Max Payne 3 etc. Even then, that animation system was at it's most pronounced in GTA IV and then they started to favour canned animations again in later games. For example they replaced the physics based drunken stumbling in 4 with a canned animation in 5. There were less moments where pedestrians would grab onto or lean on something to stabilise themselves when falling over etc. My guess is that due to hardware limits they prioritised some other stuff like having more vehicles or people on screen at a time, or some visual effects etc and the tactile/physics-based gameplay was sacrificed. Maybe next-gen could allow for both?

The possibilities are endless for sports games, you could use motion capture from the actual players to train the AI to turn it into a proper physically simulated technique in the game which interacts with the ball the same way as real life. Your inputs could send your intention to the AI character who would then try to produce that outcome based on the techniques they have been trained and literal physical ability. For the first few years it may look and feel janky but I would totally forgive (and support) this for a while to see such a revolutionary change in football games long term. I believe this kind of design would also work for other sports games like tennis or boxing although they wouldn't get as much investment as football.

Like you say though, it's just a dream really - I know it will probably never happen as the current formula is such a safe and profitable operation every year, there's no real reason for such a big shake up but it really is possible with current and upcoming technology to produce something so much better than what we have now. At the very least I hope to see it within my lifetime .

I’m curious. If I’m, as a guy just interested in playing a good football game, watching and reading that tech stuff (almost educating myself) because I’m interested in that matter... is Konami doing the same?!
Just asking. Do they take inspiration from that kind of stuff?! I wonder if there are Konami employees involved in PES playing on PC with community mods like @Holland’s?!

They surely must be aware of the concepts, whether they find it cost-effective to pursue is another matter.

Now that FIFA is such a huge phenomenon which has almost monopolised football gaming in many major markets, maybe something as drastic and different as this could be a way to tempt people back?

Here's another video about the kind of tech but about football, it's not as impressive as the basketball one but shows similar physics based motion/gameplay potential;

For me, the frame at 4:00 for the shooting direction is great - how the foot impacts the ball determining where the ball goes...

Anyway I'll stop going on about this stuff as it's not exactly on-topic and is probably never going to come to fruition, maybe there could be another thread about these idealistic imaginary football games .

 

[PRO_TOO]

Definitely - imagine this kind of stuff with EA's "fuck you" money behind it? It's this impressive to look at already and it's only really a proof of concept done by academic institutions or relatively small companies. Maybe bigger studios are doing their own research and implementations of the tech, but we're yet to really see much of it in games.

Rockstar is the only studio I can think of who use some variation of this concept in their games with the Euphoria physics/animation in GTA, RDR, Max Payne 3 etc. Even then, that animation system was at it's most pronounced in GTA IV and then they started to favour canned animations again in later games. For example they replaced the physics based drunken stumbling in 4 with a canned animation in 5. There were less moments where pedestrians would grab onto or lean on something to stabilise themselves when falling over etc. My guess is that due to hardware limits they prioritised some other stuff like having more vehicles or people on screen at a time, or some visual effects etc and the tactile/physics-based gameplay was sacrificed. Maybe next-gen could allow for both?

The possibilities are endless for sports games, you could use motion capture from the actual players to train the AI to turn it into a proper physically simulated technique in the game which interacts with the ball the same way as real life. Your inputs could send your intention to the AI character who would then try to produce that outcome based on the techniques they have been trained and literal physical ability. For the first few years it may look and feel janky but I would totally forgive (and support) this for a while to see such a revolutionary change in football games long term. I believe this kind of design would also work for other sports games like tennis or boxing although they wouldn't get as much investment as football.

Like you say though, it's just a dream really - I know it will probably never happen as the current formula is such a safe and profitable operation every year, there's no real reason for such a big shake up but it really is possible with current and upcoming technology to produce something so much better than what we have now. At the very least I hope to see it within my lifetime .

They surely must be aware of the concepts, whether they find it cost-effective to pursue is another matter.

Now that FIFA is such a huge phenomenon which has almost monopolised football gaming in many major markets, maybe something as drastic and different as this could be a way to tempt people back?

Here's another video about the kind of tech but about football, it's not as impressive as the basketball one but shows similar physics based motion/gameplay potential;

For me, the frame at 4:00 for the shooting direction is great - how the foot impacts the ball determining where the ball goes...

Anyway I'll stop going on about this stuff as it's not exactly on-topic and is probably never going to come to fruition, maybe there could be another thread about these idealistic imaginary football games .

comments like this remind me that the Community is so much more passionate!!
Simple question: Why in God’s name are they not realizing?!

 

[DarthKebab]

That is a more reasonable price !! Too bad, we need to pay double or more of that, for some reason...

its not reasonable at all, nobody should pay for a live update

 

[༺Ƥeຮ༻]

its not reasonable at all, nobody should pay for a live update

More reasonable compare with 30 euros +for other part of Europe.

 

[Mathgamer]

There's a video as well, which covers mostly the same stuff in the article but the clips are a bit smoother than the GIFs;


There's the PDF for the paper as well if you wanted an even longer/technical read ;
http://graphics.cs.cmu.edu/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/BasketballSIGGRAPH2018.pdf

GTA IV used a very basic implementation of this kind of tech with the Euphoria physics, where people would try to balance themselves when they were falling etc. There was an American Football game called Backbreaker which was almost just a demo for the technology 10 years ago... Really hoping that this kind of stuff takes off with next-gen, to me it would probably be as significant as the shift from 2D to 3D.

Electronic Arts


https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1026472/ML-Tutorial-Day-From-Motion ( Animation Team - Advanced Team (FIFA)

 

[Flipper the Priest]

 

[Lami]

Also - seeing them all coming out of the shadows, after ignoring people for six months, starting to hype this using their socks and shoes and hearing same old shite about how bright the future is, makes me wonder - am I too old for this, or is this bus being driven by few blokes with the mentality of 12 year olds..

I dont know..

Came back to post this.

Back to another long hibernation.

Take care everyone

 

[rojofa]

Electronic Arts


https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1026472/ML-Tutorial-Day-From-Motion ( Animation Team - Advanced Team (FIFA)

That looks great, and is a massive improvement over what we have now, but one comment disappointed me.

4:40 - We simulate the ball movement via physics when it is not controlled by the character.

Sounds (and looks) like this means the ball is not controlled by physics when it is under the control of the player but is part of the animation, and this technology is only being used to make smoother and more dynamic looking animations.

In the video I linked, the ball is a completely seperate physical entity, and the "animations" are actually more like techniques/behaviours learned and performed by AI to manipulate the ball and their own motion using physics. This would allow for a richer and much different gameplay experience with far more potential. Every interaction with the ball, other players and even the footplanting on the ground would be governed by physics.

If I'm understanding it correctly, that example, while it looks incredibly impressive it wouldn't really evolve the gameplay too much.

 

[Ximelez]

There’s a lot of outrage about Konami charging for the season update but if you put your business heads on, what do you want them to do?

I and many others have been wanting Konami to take a year out for a ages to allow more development time and with the switch to next gen consoles there isn’t a better time to do this but... It’s a business at the end of the day and they’re not going to leave a big hole in their revenue/ profits as a goodwill gesture and they can’t give it for free just because they’ve lost inter and AC to FIFA. They have to offer something paid... you don’t have to buy it but a lot of people will and everyone knows that within 2 months of release, PES is always heavily discounted.

I also think that you cant deny that since PES 2017 there’s been a conscious effort from Konami to make the game more realistic and add more “simulation” elements and feel to it - despite its flaws. However, they’ve done this while working with a limited engine while also trying to keep the my club, kid arcade gamers happy so we end up with a bit of a hybrid, compromised final game that can produce unbelievably realistic moments but equal amounts of bullshit and doesn’t strike the right balance for full enjoyment.

The reason I’m optimistic about nextgen, new engine and PES 2022 is because I’ve felt since the start, that FOX was never meant to be for a football game and therefore never going to allow the developers to produce what they want for the best possible gameplay yet Konami had to stick with it and in effect (I’m not a developer or programmer btw)had to build on broken elements to fix certain elements Which would then break other elements (keepers/ shot variation, collision system/ referee decisions for example - which is why it seems like one step forward, 2 steps back) and 6 years of this has left certain elements in the game (Or the game overall) an unrepairable mess. Konami and it’s developers know this but it would be suicide to admit it.

so I kinda feel like they’re happy to finally cut ties with fox, and will make a real effort to develop next gen games from the ground up to recreate the perfect balance of sim and arcade like the PES days of old which would suit both the realistic sim players and the myclub crowd.

 

[steff]

For the first time since ISS on the SNES, I wont be buying the annual release, I understand the road they have taken, and agree with it, but im not paying for cosmetic changes, looking forward to PES 2022, there is no excuse not to make a cracking game.

 

[NikoLiberty4]

PES series never had good audio quality, so I also hope this entire area is overhauled with the new engine. New FX effects, better chants/general atmosphere, and proper scripts for narration.

 

[hitmanuk]

There’s a lot of outrage about Konami charging for the season update but if you put your business heads on, what do you want them to do?

I and many others have been wanting Konami to take a year out for a ages to allow more development time and with the switch to next gen consoles there isn’t a better time to do this but... It’s a business at the end of the day and they’re not going to leave a big hole in their revenue/ profits as a goodwill gesture and they can’t give it for free just because they’ve lost inter and AC to FIFA. They have to offer something paid... you don’t have to buy it but a lot of people will and everyone knows that within 2 months of release, PES is always heavily discounted.

I also think that you cant deny that since PES 2017 there’s been a conscious effort from Konami to make the game more realistic and add more “simulation” elements and feel to it - despite its flaws. However, they’ve done this while working with a limited engine while also trying to keep the my club, kid arcade gamers happy so we end up with a bit of a hybrid, compromised final game that can produce unbelievably realistic moments but equal amounts of bullshit and doesn’t strike the right balance for full enjoyment.

The reason I’m optimistic about nextgen, new engine and PES 2022 is because I’ve felt since the start, that FOX was never meant to be for a football game and therefore never going to allow the developers to produce what they want for the best possible gameplay yet Konami had to stick with it and in effect (I’m not a developer or programmer btw)had to build on broken elements to fix certain elements Which would then break other elements (keepers/ shot variation, collision system/ referee decisions for example - which is why it seems like one step forward, 2 steps back) and 6 years of this has left certain elements in the game (Or the game overall) an unrepairable mess. Konami and it’s developers know this but it would be suicide to admit it.

so I kinda feel like they’re happy to finally cut ties with fox, and will make a real effort to develop next gen games from the ground up to recreate the perfect balance of sim and arcade like the PES days of old which would suit both the realistic sim players and the myclub crowd.

I think the disagreement, or certainly mine, is this and this is based on no gameplay changes

New kits can be made by the scene for free and just as good if not better than what Konami will produce
Same applies for team edits
You are paying for reducing what you already have, if i understand it if its a patch for 2020 it will remove some teams licences - this just doesnt make sense and using the business model should be balanced out with some new features.

Its like trading in a car with alloys and paying more for the same car but without alloys and getting standard wheels - why would anyone do it

 

[PRO_TOO]

PES series never had good audio quality, so I also hope this entire area is overhauled with the new engine. New FX effects, better chants/general atmosphere, and proper scripts for narration.

And oh my word, MY WORD, surely a new commentator duo! That’s a must as well!!

 

[Chuny]

The thing is, both KONAMI and EA develop PES and FIFA with consoles in mind. That's the way it's always been and it's the way it will always be.
And this time, for the first time ever, both SONY and MICROSOFT have developed the next-gen consoles with gear that isn't even available yet on PC.
If you wanted to build a PC with specs similar PS5 TODAY, you couldn't. Not even talking about money here, because even if you could... it would cost 2 or 3 times the (more than likely) price the PS5 will cost.

So, for the first time, the gap will be BIG, between last-gen or current-gen and next-gen Specially for PES.
Most of the teasers we've seen in the PS5 presentation didn't blow our brains up, because those games have been developed for the past 2 years probably.
But PES will take advantage of all the new technology AND a new engine at the same time.

It's no surprise that EA chose to leave the PC version behind for at least another year. And Konami will probably do the same thing next year when they announce PES 2022. I'm fairly sure Sony and Microsoft might be paying the big bucks to have that exclusivity and push blinded fans like us to buy either console to experience the real next-gen version first hand.

Imagine, in PES' case... if they were to release all 3 versions of PES 2022 in the next-gen format. PS5, XBOX and PC.
PC will always look better because by the time the new GPUs are out by the end of the year, PCs will once again be ahead of next-gen consoles (at a much higher price range, of course). And on top of that, you add hundreds of Mods for PES..... They certainly wouldn't want the PC version to look so much better than the Next-Gen consoles one, right from the start. They need that year to make football fans go nuts and get the consoles. Think about it from a business point of view. Sony and Microsoft have been developing these consoles for the past, what?, 5 years?. They finally put them out there only for some games to look and perform better ALREADY on PC?. Nah...

 

[pacpes]

both SONY and MICROSOFT have developed the next-gen consoles with gear that isn't even available yet on PC.

I'm sorry but... no, just no.

 

[Chuny]

I'm sorry but... no, just no.

Oh yes... most certainly yes.

 

[Bonano]

This thing that some say,that they should add an option for Arcade or Sim,i don't think it is that simple..

Look what happened with 20.If they only cared about pleasing the arcadey online crowd like everyone seems to think,they would make it ridiculously fast,with no error whatsoever and more arcady in general just like the previous ones..
Instead they made the rythm and the flow more slow and more realistic with more player weight and inertia.What would someone say about that?Is it more arcady or more towards sim..?

They made the PA1 less ping pong with more error in general with shots also and introduced more misshits instead of every shot go on goal or 5cm next to the bar and brought more physicality.Again,is that more towards arcadey approach or sim?
They made the controls looser and the ball less glued to the feet(something that we were moaning about for years that the controls are too perfect and the ball too glued to the feet)What about that?Is this also towards arcade?

That's some of the reasons why i prefer 20 to the previous versions.For it's more random and realistic approach on the pitch in how it feels and plays.Although still having issues with AI and awareness,no one can deny that.

What's most people had to say about that..?That it's trash because it's too slow and boring now and they can't pass correctly because of error unless they go to PA3 and they can't control the ball and they can't shoot etc..lol
So what do these people want afterall?A more sim approach?Doesn't look like it..Cause everytime they try to bring some elements more towards sim like they did in 20 or in 14 everyone bitch about it and say how much better and fun 6 and 13 were with their weightless cockroach football logic.

Although i agree that an option for offline to be able to choose which patch version you would like to play like there is in NHL would be good.
My favoutite version of 20 was the gameplay that came with DLC 4(and yes..gameplay always changes to some degree with every patch..anyone who plays the game enough can tell..even if some people think it's all placebo and make fun about it..)so i would like to have the option to choose that when i want to play some offline matches and have a break from online which i normally play.But i don't see that happening neither in PES or FIFA.

I agree with alot of what you said, especially the bolded parts!

I think it's a bit overlooked around here how much they actually changed the speed and flow of the game with the passing alone, and how much shooting improved by adhering more to physics with the last two editions, and especially 2020.
Of course I can understand as well that people are really disillusioned by the pretty one dimensional AI winning by one goal with two shots on target against your ten, plus the bad positioning/tactics system not to mention the poor modes!

What I wanted to say is that I just hope they will keep up the more sim aproach they've taken lately, improving AI and modes in the process, and I also wanted to ask you @Dennis_87 how you feel about online, since that's what you mainly play?

To me, they sort of give with one hand and take away with the other; they provided this sim aproach but still alow people to play above PA1 efectively cancelling out the sim elements (even calling it efootball without a level playing field) and also insist on having scripting/handicapping in online games (perhaps debatable but it sure feels like the handicapping I know from playing the AI).
It's a huge own goal IMO that makes me not want to touch online although I could even see myself getting into myClub, where you can play bronze vs. bronze teams if you wanted, if they kept handicapping and <PA1 out of it.

What's your take on this?

 

[NIK778899]

Bhatti no longer overseeing PES

 

[Ameppe]

Actually he is overseeing Pes and the other games.

Who knows which other games he is talking about...

 

[Peter Withe]

Probably a load of Konami's mobile crap. They don't make console/PC games anymore apart from PES do they?

 

[slamsoze]

Probably a load of Konami's mobile crap. They don't make console/PC games anymore apart from PES do they?

IIRC Metal gear and for sure Yu-Gi-Oh.

 

[Peter Withe]

IIRC Metal gear and for sure Yu-Gi-Oh.

I can't seem them releasing another MG after losing what's-his-name though. MG Survive was woeful.

 

[NIK778899]

Actually he is overseeing Pes and the other games.

Who knows which other games he is talking about...

Sorry, 'Not just overseeing PES' is what I should have written.

Even so, it's still a step away.

 

[slamsoze]

I can't seem them releasing another MG after losing what's-his-name though. MG Survive was woeful.

Yeap correct this Metal Gear Survive, which according to my reading was awefull, or money grab, or both of them

Then Yugioh which is sabotaged the last 12 years by KONAMI and is also broken from the inside.
Finally I saw a Contra Anniversary edition back in 2019.
Thats all I think in pure video games work circle.