eFootball PES 2021 Discussion Thread (CONSOLES)

[Anth James]

Im gonna be honest here - this post about player roles was a revelation of sorts for me. Its embarrassing to admit, but I never really put 2+2 together.
I never really created player roles according to my tactics.
As a result I had players with mindset to go forward and cut inside, while my tactics demanded that they gone back to help the defense.
I just had random mess on the pitch.
Never knew player roles played such an important role!
So thank you for this post. Im in the process of adjusting all roles now.

Ps. All out defense tactics in AI teams makes me giggle. Its not that noticeable in my team, coz I always switch manually between players and put some pressure on AI, so there are always some players around. But AI is like proper panic retreat.

Spoiler

View attachment 188516

This chat about the playing styles got me curious. I found something interesting just having a quick look at them in the game now. Almost all the CBs and even most fullbacks have the Com Playing Style 'Long Ball Expert'. I'm going to try taking this off and see if it helps with the 'long ball to the striker' routine.

 

[Emroth]

This chat about the playing styles got me curious. I found something interesting just having a quick look at them in the game now. Almost all the CBs and even most fullbacks have the Com Playing Style 'Long Ball Expert'. I'm going to try taking this off and see if it helps with the 'long ball to the striker' routine.

Id say it will help. All the little things are adding up there.
I swapped all Long Ball tactics to Short Pass and I already see a fair bit of difference. Players mentality can add another level. Altho I can honestly say that with Short Passing and deep defensive line OFF - the game feels fairly balanced to me as it is.

 

[Anth James]

Id say it will help. All the little things are adding up there.
I swapped all Long Ball tactics to Short Pass and I already see a fair bit of difference. Players mentality can add another level. Altho I can honestly say that with Short Passing and deep defensive line OFF - the game feels fairly balanced to me as it is.

I just tried taking it off for all defenders for two teams and it definitely helps.

 

[Emroth]

I just tried taking it off for all defenders for two teams and it definitely helps.

Another one on the list for my edits so! Thank you very muchly!

 

[aderow]

This chat about the playing styles got me curious. I found something interesting just having a quick look at them in the game now. Almost all the CBs and even most fullbacks have the Com Playing Style 'Long Ball Expert'. I'm going to try taking this off and see if it helps with the 'long ball to the striker' routine.

Before I started my save, I edited all Manchester United's midfielders and attackers to shoot from distance and I've seen a few goals from distance as a result. Never thought to look at the defenders though.

 

[TheWolf]

Hmm.. id say about 20-30?
Two weeks, but not every day. Changing tactics was quick enough. Transfers - I only did the main ones, didnt bother with checking all the squads in detail.
Kits took the longest, but I did it before when I wanted to keep Pes20 Vanilla on PS4.
I know how to mix RGB pallet fairly well (International Superstar Soccer veteran here), I know the patterns, I know how to mix them to create more complex looking kits. They are all still basic in compare to Option Files, but it will do me.
Googling all three kits for each team and stadiums (to pick the most similar one and change the name) - that took the longest. But I do enjoy Editing in Pes. I always did. So it was relaxing. I was doing around 6 teams per sitting and then playing a match or two in exhibition to check them.
There are still teams that I need to edit, but both english 1 and 2 are done.
In the past (pes13 I think) I created entire bundesliga with all the players and stats, so I was always a bit weird that way..😂

Pro tip for uniform editing, I downloaded the FIFA 23 trial on my laptop and just screenshotted the kits during team selection and emailed the screenshots to myself so I could use my phone/iPad on my lap to edit the PES uniforms on the Xbox. I found that way faster than Googling all the different team stores to find the kits especially given some team store sites are shit and you can’t find the away shorts or some crap 😂

 

[Anth James]

Before I started my save, I edited all Manchester United's midfielders and attackers to shoot from distance and I've seen a few goals from distance as a result. Never thought to look at the defenders though.

I need to play more, but it seems to be working well. I wouldn’t say there’s no long balls now, but it definitely seems like less. I may apply it to DMs also and see how it goes too.

 

[slamsoze]

I need to play more, but it seems to be working well. I wouldn’t say there’s no long balls now, but it definitely seems like less. I may apply it to DMs also and see how it goes too.

There was a discussion about 2017, and @AntonyC_PESCustomFaces started a whole project on 2017, based on playstylees and COM skills. You can find some suggestions here, IIRC.

https://evoweb.uk/threads/pes-2017-updated-2020-files-includes-team-league-identity.82803/

You just need to read it in reverse engineering mentality, cause Antony tried to fix different things, 2020-2021 and 2017 have much different and opposite flaws. But if you feel the mentality, you can pretty much do a helpful reading.

And of course those skills/traits are finetuned-slidered by game to game, having same core , but different impact.

For example, back then Antony tried to fix the issue, in the so good at general CPU AI, so the CBs throw some balls, as long ball "experts" , cause they didn't use to back then. But in 2021 it's the opposite.

He has proposed also some more radical ideas like this.

https://evoweb.uk/threads/how-to-make-pes-fun-top-speed.91381/

Well this on paper, sounds more arcadey, but i didn't see it in praxis, to know the results.

TL;DR: Yes, COM playstyles and Advanced Tactics, dictate the 2/3 of the CPU AI style.

 

[papinho81]

I need to play more, but it seems to be working well. I wouldn’t say there’s no long balls now, but it definitely seems like less. I may apply it to DMs also and see how it goes too.

Here you have also good material from back in 2017:
https://forums.operationsports.com/...-position-player-ability-tactical-advice.html

 

[Emroth]

Here you have also good material from back in 2017:
https://forums.operationsports.com/...-position-player-ability-tactical-advice.html

If this was known/tested since Pes17 - how come no one tried it in Pes21?

 

[aderow]

If this was known/tested since Pes17 - how come no one tried it in Pes21?

Because the people who cared enough to put all that work in, have probably grown apathetic to what PES has become over the years.

 

[Madmac79]

Now if there was some trait, added or removed, that stimulated CPU to dribble more.. this could seriously become my favourite "modern" game. But I guess little can be done in that sense..

 

[Emroth]

Now if there was some trait, added or removed, that stimulated CPU to dribble more

...like these?

Spoiler

There are good few COM play styles.😁

Because the people who cared enough to put all that work in, have probably grown apathetic to what PES has become over the years

Is it that much work tho?
I can do that myself. Its literally changing their playstyle.
I can tip away and do 2/3 teams a day, not only removing long ball addiction, but adding some dribbling and shot from distance (with Long Ranger trait)

Honestly - I had no idea they matter that much. Gonna have a lot of fun with it.

 

[aderow]

...like these?

Spoiler

View attachment 188742

There are good few COM play styles.😁


Is it that much work tho?
I can do that myself. Its literally changing their playstyle.
I can tip away and do 2/3 teams a day, not only removing long ball addiction, but adding some dribbling and shot from distance (with Long Ranger trait)

Honestly - I had no idea they matter that much. Gonna have a lot of fun with it.

My point really is I don't think they care anymore lol. I'll be interested in what you find, how it affects your gameplay.

 

[Emroth]

My point really is I don't think they care anymore lol. I'll be interested in what you find, how it affects your gameplay.

I'll make sure to report back, but from what @Anth James was saying - there's a fair chance of improving the gameplay, which is quite unheard of on consoles.
I often wondered why there are some players that really like to shot from distance and others that dribbled me out of nowhere.
Thought they were all flukes and random legacy glipses of old, better gameplay.
But they might all be linked to their playstyle.
If they make a little bit of difference, plus changed team tactics add a little bit more - it might be quite big.
Im aware that I will have to start new ML for all this to take effect, but Im happy to try it out.

 

[Madmac79]

...like these?

Spoiler

View attachment 188742

There are good few COM play styles.😁


Is it that much work tho?
I can do that myself. Its literally changing their playstyle.
I can tip away and do 2/3 teams a day, not only removing long ball addiction, but adding some dribbling and shot from distance (with Long Ranger trait)

Honestly - I had no idea they matter that much. Gonna have a lot of fun with it.

Eh I think there are already dozens and dozens of players with those traits, but it never made a truly signifcant different for how Cpu behaves, unfortunately. They sometimes do some isolated feint/single dribbling or some run from the side to the center, but it's not really anywhere near consistent. You'll never see a strong winger search for a costant, proper one v one like it happens in reality.

Or at least it has been my experience so far with 20 in the past and 21 now. Don't know if there still is an hidden way to reproduce it somewhere behind stats/playstyles/whatever.

Although I must say that I recorded some isolated, nice dribbling of the last defender by the CPU forward when the occasion arised. But it's, again, rare enough.

 

[aderow]

Konami made something and underutilized it at the end of the day. That's what happens when you don't care about a feature. If they did care, they'd hire someone who focused actually analyzing how teams play irl and implementing playing styles and tactics to replicate that as best as possible.

 

[Emroth]

Konami made something and underutilized it at the end of the day. That's what happens when you don't care about a feature. If they did care, they'd hire someone who focused actually analyzing how teams play irl and implementing playing styles and tactics to replicate that as best as possible.

Oh 100%. Having all back line with Long Ball expert trait is laziness in its peak.
Most teams are copy/paste.
But at least we have tools to change it ourselves.

 

[aderow]

Deep defensive line is the bane of my existence

 

[slamsoze]

Since we dig out all the good-ol' tricks, maybe also the Matt's "turn Off-side Trap to Auto", may help too together with switch off Deep Defensive Line, never tried in 2021 though.

 

[Anth James]

The tactical adjustment I'm applying at the moment is working well in overall gameplay for me. I find it spaces out the pitch better and provides more midfield resistance when coming out of defence. It's a fairly simple adjustment that I'm able to adapt to different formations. Essentially it just looks like this. The real key is having a staggered midfield, and LM and RM instead of LWF and RWF when off the ball. Also bunching up the defenders into all CBs does not mean wingers run free, it actually plays quite balanced.

In:


Out:



I found putting everyone as low as possible just makes the game very 'I attack', 'You attack'. This way I'm playing with now creates more of a balance and a stagger through the midfield, meaning your passes (and the CPU's) are more likely to be intercepted. Seeing a lot of variety at the moment with this, combined with no deep defensive line or all out defence, and removing the Long Ball Expert trait from defenders.

 

[Emroth]

The tactical adjustment I'm applying at the moment is working well in overall gameplay for me

I remember this. It was an old trick we use to do.
Im playing 3-5-2 tactics with wide midfielders and just put Wing Back as advanced tactics. This, combined with Box To Box mentality for the wingers makes them nicely covering the back.
Wonder if putting Wing Back tactics would give you same result for your LWF/RWF

 

[Anth James]

I remember this. It was an old trick we use to do.
Im playing 3-5-2 tactics with wide midfielders and just put Wing Back as advanced tactics. This, combined with Box To Box mentality for the wingers makes them nicely covering the back.
Wonder if putting Wing Back tactics would give you same result for your LWF/RWF

The only thing I've found with Wing Back is that it makes the wingers retreat instantly more often than not, instead of pressing high and then dropping back to help. That's why I find the LM/RM adjustment is working a little more naturally.

I'm trying to bring in a little more congestion and buildup now. 'm testing out dropping the LWF and RWF to a LM/RM in possession, but much lower than when they're out of possession. A quick test of this seemed to work well, but early days.

 

[Emroth]

The only thing I've found with Wing Back is that it makes the wingers retreat instantly more often than not, instead of pressing high

Even combined with Frontline Pressure tactics on?

 

[Anth James]

Even combined with Frontline Pressure tactics on?

Yeah, there was a bit of pressure at times but it was more about their base position to cut passing lanes was a bit too deep.

 

[Anth James]

I remember this. It was an old trick we use to do.
Im playing 3-5-2 tactics with wide midfielders and just put Wing Back as advanced tactics. This, combined with Box To Box mentality for the wingers makes them nicely covering the back.
Wonder if putting Wing Back tactics would give you same result for your LWF/RWF

Just re-read your post and realised you're playing with a back 3. Wing Back will definitely work with that formation. You'd want them to drop off more than when playing a front three!

 

[aderow]

Since we dig out all the good-ol' tricks, maybe also the Matt's "turn Off-side Trap to Auto", may help too together with switch off Deep Defensive Line, never tried in 2021 though.

It does work relatively well. I've been using it Except in one instance and this has been a problem for years; the AI doesn't know how to defend against 2 striker formations especially when the team playing with 2 strikers is on an attacking mentality. For whatever reason, whenever facing 2 strikers, the backline drops deeper and deeper. CBs especially will not just let attackers run offside and will instead track their runs compromising the defense line and shape.

It's one of the reasons I ditched become a legend for master league and I'm finding that I'm constantly having to manually bring my backline up instead of letting them just perpetually drop deep.

 

[Werdllitrah]

Hmm.. id say about 20-30?
Two weeks, but not every day. Changing tactics was quick enough. Transfers - I only did the main ones, didnt bother with checking all the squads in detail.
Kits took the longest, but I did it before when I wanted to keep Pes20 Vanilla on PS4.
I know how to mix RGB pallet fairly well (International Superstar Soccer veteran here), I know the patterns, I know how to mix them to create more complex looking kits. They are all still basic in compare to Option Files, but it will do me.
Googling all three kits for each team and stadiums (to pick the most similar one and change the name) - that took the longest. But I do enjoy Editing in Pes. I always did. So it was relaxing. I was doing around 6 teams per sitting and then playing a match or two in exhibition to check them.
There are still teams that I need to edit, but both english 1 and 2 are done.
In the past (pes13 I think) I created entire bundesliga with all the players and stats, so I was always a bit weird that way..😂

Edit brother! I can see us fighting over a European football yearbook trying to find a st gallen kit from 1988. The editing was half the joy of a new PES.

 

[Emroth]

Edit brother! I can see us fighting over a European football yearbook trying to find a st gallen kit from 1988. The editing was half the joy of a new PES.

Its such a pity that edit mode has regressed so much over the years.
I rememer creating whole Bundesliga myself, from the scratch, googling and editing every single player, stats and kits. All sponsors drawn pixel by pixel in Free Draw edit mode.
And the funniest part was - I never even played Bundesliga Master League. Just wanted to have it, so I could meet them in Champions League and friendlies.

 

[Werdllitrah]

Its such a pity that edit mode has regressed so much over the years.
I rememer creating whole Bundesliga myself, from the scratch, googling and editing every single player, stats and kits. All sponsors drawn pixel by pixel in Free Draw edit mode.
And the funniest part was - I never even played Bundesliga Master League. Just wanted to have it, so I could meet them in Champions League and friendlies.

Used to love making emblems, my fc koln badge was great, I didn't stretch to the goat, it was just the twin spires of the cathedral