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eFootball PES 2021 Discussion Thread (CONSOLES)

Tom said:
Why do you always refer to "they" when that whole campaign is made by none other than yourself? Come on, man, be real. This isn't going to work, nobody is pledging any money on blabla alone.
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So you understood it, ok us then instead of their, now we don't have budget and we will have our engine maybe at v2 cause Database for V1 is very crazy work for us, we must research first for the best players of every team, then create them, very crazy work!! So we don't have time to create DB and also develop our new engine!!
 
*aLe said:
So we've already gone from "maybe at v1, surely at v2" to "maybe at v2 otherwise dunno".

And, well, what will v1 be based upon then?
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Database for V1 is very crazy work for us, we must research first for the best players of every team, then create them, very crazy work!!
 
Xarisocfp7 said:
Database for V1 is very crazy work for us, we must research first for the best players of every team, then create them, very crazy work!!
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I know it's a crazy work, man!
To the creators of the Classic Patch for FIFA 14 the database took ages to complete... And this being based on an already existing game.
Hell, it even took me months to release a PES 3 patch which changed some 20 kits and renamed all the players to be fantasy ones... And it's a DB with, well, maybe 120 teams?
Surely creating a DB 1000 times bigger than that would take a lot of time!

You just can't go asking for money without nothing in hand to show, though... That's what I'm saying. For comparison, this is how an indie company should handle a kickstarter launch: https://www.sorsadversa.com/
 
A crowdfunded football game could be good idea, but unfortunately this one seems far from a realistic possibility.

I'll link back to a post I made a few months ago when a similar topic came up;
https://evo-web.co.uk/threads/efootball-pes-2021-discussion-thread-consoles.83069/post-3569786

Take a look at the Kickstarter page for the skateboarding sim Session, and then compare it to yours;


There they had footage from inside their game from a few basic levels, a free tech demo/prototype to show off their gameplay vision/mechanics, a roadmap for what features they may be able to stretch the project to include depending on the amount pledged etc...
 
rojofa said:
A crowdfunded football game could be good idea, but unfortunately this one seems far from a realistic possibility.

I'll link back to a post I made a few months ago when a similar topic came up;
https://evo-web.co.uk/threads/efootball-pes-2021-discussion-thread-consoles.83069/post-3569786

Take a look at the Kickstarter page for the skateboarding sim Session, and then compare it to yours;


There they had footage from inside their game from a few basic levels, a free tech demo/prototype to show off their gameplay vision/mechanics, a roadmap for what features they may be able to stretch the project to include depending on the amount pledged etc...
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Look one game with little database and levels is quite different than a football game(you need kits,faces,stadiums,boots,gloves for more than 10.000 players and more than 100 teams), if you have all of them , you have the game!!!
 
*aLe said:
I know it's a crazy work, man!
To the creators of the Classic Patch for FIFA 14 the database took ages to complete... And this being based on an already existing game.
Hell, it even took me months to release a PES 3 patch which changed some 20 kits and renamed all the players to be fantasy ones... And it's a DB with, well, maybe 120 teams?
Surely creating a DB 1000 times bigger than that would take a lot of time!

You just can't go asking for money without nothing in hand to show, though... That's what I'm saying. For comparison, this is how an indie company should handle a kickstarter launch: https://www.sorsadversa.com/
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I am not asking a big amount for our game, just the basics we need to continue!!
We will have more than 120 teams, sure more than 200
 
Xarisocfp7 said:
Look one game with little database and levels is quite different than a football game(you need kits,faces,stadiums,boots,gloves for more than 10.000 players and more than 100 teams), if you have all of them , you have the game!!!
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No, that's not how it works.

Before you even think about adding content like kits, faces, stadiums etc you need the gameplay/physics to be in a good state. That's why this skateboarding game started off by inviting people to try a demo which only included one very basic level with generic assets/textures and one skater.

I would be more likely to support a project that mentioned nothing about including the entire history of football, only showing "Team A" v "Team B" with 22 generic players in an empty void. As long as it has modding support then the rest of the stuff can come later from the community, the real important thing is the gameplay/physics/AI and nothing in your page shows any proof or expertise in achieving anything in this department, only the database/textures/models in PES patches.

Create a prototype of your game, even if it were something as simple as 1v1 with a goalkeeper like FIFA's loading screen arena to dribble around on your own... Until you have shown you can do something as simple as that, nobody is going to believe you can make a full 11v11 simulation football game with hundreds of teams and all the content proposed.
 
Xarisocfp7 said:
(you need kits,faces,stadiums,boots,gloves for more than 10.000 players and more than 100 teams), if you have all of them , you have the game!!!
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Nope, I stand by what @rojofa said here.
You'll have the game when you'll be able to showcase a match between "Team A" (or "Team Red") and "Team B" (or "Team Blue") which looks like football.
Plain kits, no real-life faces, no names... But football.
It may have its shortcomings, it may have bugs, but at least it will be something.

Having all the faces, the teams, the players, the kits without a proper game engine is like having a huge sticker album. It won't get you anywhere.
But, the problem is, you really can't expect people to blindly donate if you don't show them at least glimpses of what the finished product will be (and using screens taken from PES 2017 to promote the game would likely get you in trouble with Konami's lawyers).

I mean, I could also start a fundraising telling people that when I get enough funds I'll start developing a flying car because it's always been my dream and I know how to do it... But hardly anyone would take me seriously.

I appreciate the effort you're putting into this and I wish you all the best, but before seeing your kickstarter campaign being even remotely successful you'll have to face countless nights and weekends of non-paid, maybe not even useful (because you'll end wiping the code of the game over and over, first here, then there, and so on), frustrating work.
 
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*aLe said:
Nope, I stand by what @rojofa said here.
You'll have the game when you'll be able to showcase a match between "Team A" (or "Team Red") and "Team B" (or "Team Blue") which looks like football.
Plain kits, no real-life faces, no names... But football.
It may have its shortcomings, it may have bugs, but at least it will be something.

Having all the faces, the teams, the players, the kits without a proper game engine is like having a huge sticker album. It won't get you anywhere.
But, the problem is, you really can't expect people to blindly donate if you don't show them at least glimpses of what the finished product will be (and using screens taken from PES 2017 to promote the game would likely get you in trouble with Konami's lawyers).

I mean, I could also start a fundraising telling people that when I get enough funds I'll start developing a flying car because it's always been my dream and I know how to do it... But hardly anyone would take me seriously.

I appreciate the effort you're putting into this and I wish you all the best, but before seeing your kickstarter campaign being even remotely successful you'll have to face countless nights and weekends of non-paid, maybe not even useful (because you'll end wiping the code of the game over and over, first here, then there, and so on), frustrating work.
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one game is more real than a flying car,haha, but anyway maybe you are right one demo is better than an idea only, but nowadays is difficult to work without payed for this cause the lack of free time, that's why we need those funds. as for pes 2017 we will have those stadiums at our Game but for now we don't have this game, so we used pes 2017 only for previews, not to sell them!!! With those funds we can make miracles, we are very experienced team!!
 
Xarisocfp7 said:
I am not asking a big amount for our game, just the basics we need to continue!!
We will have more than 120 teams, sure more than 200
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The problem is mate, like @*aLe mentioned, We already have a concept similar to yours, also on not only one good football engine but soon to be another: FIFA Classic Patch - And they made that for free! So you're already swimming upstream if you're trying to convince people to PAY for your version with literally no proof of concept, no prototype & you expect people to wait god knows how long before they see any of this let alone play it themselves.

Not to mention it's because of practise like this why honest kickstarters & crowfunders find it so difficult to get support, because nobody trusts them anymore!

Too many times, Projects take people's money then the project either "falls through" and cannot be completed because the pitch was doomed for being too ambitious or they just disappear off if the face of the earth. Taking the money & running in both cases.
 
MafiaMurderBag said:
The problem is mate, like @*aLe mentioned, We already have a concept similar to yours, also on not only one good football engine but soon to be another: FIFA Classic Patch - And they made that for free! So you're already swimming upstream if you're trying to convince people to PAY for your version with literally no proof of concept, no prototype & you expect people to wait god knows how long before they see any of this let alone play it themselves.

Not to mention it's because of practise like this why honest kickstarters & crowfunders find it so difficult to get support, because nobody trusts them anymore!

Too many times, Projects take people's money then the project either "falls through" and cannot be completed because the pitch was doomed for being too ambitious or they just disappear off if the face of the earth. Taking the money & running in both cases.
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I am not a person like them you said, and everyone who Co operated with me at past already know this! Fifa 14 patch is just a patch, I am speaking for a new game, new gameplay a lot of new things like new modes, etc. Fifa 14 patch just patched fifa 14!
 
Xarisocfp7 said:
I am speaking for a new game, new gameplay a lot of new things like new modes, etc.
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I'm sure that as soon as you show us a demo of this gameplay people will start supporting you.
As I said, it doesn't ned to be a full DB or what, just two teams. On a footbal pitch. Playing football. No licenses, no kits (a plain red one vs. a plain blue one would be enough)... But football.
We already have tons of mods with classic teams, for every game you'd want. FIFA 14? Check. FIFA 16? Check. PES 2013? Check. PES 6? Of course we have it... The success of your game will heavily depend on how much better your game will play compared to them.

And give details! Baz from ProperlyDecent used to keep a blog in which he discussed things related to development. I remember a very good article about dribbling decisions by the AI, and that made me want to learn more about the project, it got me interested and involved...

This doesn't happen if you just randomly say "Um, well, yeah, we're gonna throw in a new engine with... Umm... New features... And lots of kits and faces... Just give us your money and then wait till 2024 and we'll have something ready by then".
You'd be better off starting developing the core now (I do know it takes time, and dedication, and sweat... Also craeting a patch does) and opening the fundraising in, say, 2022 with something to show. At least a trailer if not a playable demo to showcase the basics of the game.

And by the way, I read your funding plans: what is the "prepaid" version of the game and how is it different from the "default" ones?
 
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*aLe said:
I'm sure that as soon as you show us a demo of this gameplay people will start supporting you.
As I said, it doesn't ned to be a full DB or what, just two teams. On a footbal pitch. Playing football. No licenses, no kits (a plain red one vs. a plain blue one would be enough)... But football.
We already have tons of mods with classic teams, for every game you'd want. FIFA 14? Check. FIFA 16? Check. PES 2013? Check. PES 6? Of course we have it... The success of your game will heavily depend on how much better your game will play compared to them.

And give details! Baz from ProperlyDecent used to keep a blog in which he discussed things related to development. I remember a very good article about dribbling decisions by the AI, and that made me want to learn more about the project, it got me interested and involved...

This doesn't happen if you just randomly say "Um, well, yeah, we're gonna throw in a new engine with... Umm... New features... And lots of kits and faces... Just give us your money and then wait till 2024 and we'll have something ready by then".
You'd be better off starting developing the core now (I do know it takes time, and dedication, and sweat... Also craeting a patch does) and opening the fundraising in, say, 2022 with something to show. At least a trailer if not a playable demo to showcase the basics of the game.

And by the way, I read your funding plans: what is the "prepaid" version of the game and how is it different from the "default" ones?
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PREPAID version I don't know if can be real, if be real we will have some exclusives!! yes at 2022 sure we will have something more to show!! Demo idea is very good idea but personally I prefer demos like Konami 10 licensed teams 2-5 stadiums etc. more completely job!
 
Even EA use simple red/blue generic players with no stadium when they are showing and talking about gameplay details in their "Pitch Notes";

fifa21-patch-title7-volleyshotafterpatch.png.adapt.crop16x9.1455w.png


You need something as simple as this to develop/test gameplay before any emphasis whatsoever is placed on the database/assets... You're also not going to get any licensed content so if anything it's probably illegal to be asking for money and selling the game on the basis that it will include all this supposed content for the entire history of football, or for the same individuals behind the development of the game to be also producing (or even endorsing) the modded content with real player/club likenesses.

This is the last time I will mention anything about this until you show something to make it even slightly believable, and tbh it feels like the conversation is going in circles anyway. No point in talking about it further, until it's at least shown to exist in some form other than grand promises and PES screenshots.
 
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@Xarisocfp7

Completely agree with what @rojofa says. It's much better to post that kind of progress. The DB won't be useful if there's no game. You can get in big trouble if you sell a modded PES2017 as the V1 of your 'game'. Also, from a user perspective, the video isn't appealing. You can start doing a sketch of what the game would look, show the 3D models of the bodies or stadiums in the program itself (correctly rendered) rather than using another game. You can also maybe pay an artist to do a cover, but that comes much, much later. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that videogame creators (indie, not companies) start from scratch coding some stuff to start and, once they got some physical proof of what they want to do, they post it, maybe along with a sketch of how the menus would look like. You also can't show 'scoreboards' as features, since those are licensed. Same with players, they can't have the same name and don't even think about doing a face for them, you need the rights for it. This seems more like an attempt to make typical PES patches an official game, which really can't be done in legal terms. For example, people in the ecuadorian editing scene (for PES6!) were sent a message from Ecuador's first division lawyers asking to remove any type of logo or name associated with them in their PES6 patches, otherwise they would have to take them to court.

I think we ALL prefer the idea of having a football game first, as @*aLe says, with different gameplay, maybe even with unique cinematics that add to the inmersion, really detailed gamemodes (like ML or BAL) rather than the whole database behind it. That comes later, and KONAMI clearly know that, because they've left the entire Edit mode open for the past 15 years for users to create and basically do whatever they like with their game. Once the game is done, if your files are easy to access and open, the community will do the work for you.
 
Others already said it all. Feels like you are just selling a patch. It's beyond delusional to think you'll accumulate that ridiculous amout you are asking with the material you presented.

I don't mean to be abrupt but it's years I dream about a serious kickstarter football project, I think I fantasized about it countless time in this forum .. and seeing this stuff being sell as one is a bit annoying.
 
Well,my Wednesday evening was spent (two hrs at least) playing ML,same old cheating as I'd expect,weird decisions from my controlled players on defining moments (final pass/making a quick move then shoot etc)

What a turd of a game mode,unplayable!
Had more fun playing Myclub,never thought that would happen,but I actually did.

So sad this game can't be enjoyed unless you play exhibition.
 
rojofa said:
Even EA use simple red/blue generic players with no stadium when they are showing and talking about gameplay details in their "Pitch Notes";

fifa21-patch-title7-volleyshotafterpatch.png.adapt.crop16x9.1455w.png


You need something as simple as this to develop/test gameplay before any emphasis whatsoever is placed on the database/assets... You're also not going to get any licensed content so if anything it's probably illegal to be asking for money and selling the game on the basis that it will include all this supposed content for the entire history of football, or for the same individuals behind the development of the game to be also producing (or even endorsing) the modded content with real player/club likenesses.

This is the last time I will mention anything about this until you show something to make it even slightly believable, and tbh it feels like the conversation is going in circles anyway. No point in talking about it further, until it's at least shown to exist in some form other than grand promises and PES screenshots.
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I agree but is quite bit difficult to provide demo right now, I like completely jobs even for demo, like Konami demo! The main reason I want the money is this, I wanted this game production to be my job, so I will do better job. One demo with ~10 teams and some new things that till now don't exist to fifa and pes, and one special completely game!!
 
Madmac79 said:
Others already said it all. Feels like you are just selling a patch. It's beyond delusional to think you'll accumulate that ridiculous amout you are asking with the material you presented.

I don't mean to be abrupt but it's years I dream about a serious kickstarter football project, I think I fantasized about it countless time in this forum .. and seeing this stuff being sell as one is a bit annoying.
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never sell a patch, all the patches I made at past are always free at web, check pes-hellas 2 blog!
 
Xarisocfp7 said:
I agree but is quite bit difficult to provide demo right now, I like completely jobs even for demo, like Konami demo! The main reason I want the money is this, I wanted this game production to be my job, so I will do better job. One demo with ~10 teams and some new things that till now don't exist to fifa and pes, and one special completely game!!
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The problem is that you're not a small company with history of making games, so unless you show progress of an actual game it will be almost impossible for your project to be funded. There's no previous work, an interview with the leader of the project, etc. People won't trust it unless the presentation of the project is well polished and/or with actual proof of a game being developed.
 
ryudek said:
@Xarisocfp7

Completely agree with what @rojofa says. It's much better to post that kind of progress. The DB won't be useful if there's no game. You can get in big trouble if you sell a modded PES2017 as the V1 of your 'game'. Also, from a user perspective, the video isn't appealing. You can start doing a sketch of what the game would look, show the 3D models of the bodies or stadiums in the program itself (correctly rendered) rather than using another game. You can also maybe pay an artist to do a cover, but that comes much, much later. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that videogame creators (indie, not companies) start from scratch coding some stuff to start and, once they got some physical proof of what they want to do, they post it, maybe along with a sketch of how the menus would look like. You also can't show 'scoreboards' as features, since those are licensed. Same with players, they can't have the same name and don't even think about doing a face for them, you need the rights for it. This seems more like an attempt to make typical PES patches an official game, which really can't be done in legal terms. For example, people in the ecuadorian editing scene (for PES6!) were sent a message from Ecuador's first division lawyers asking to remove any type of logo or name associated with them in their PES6 patches, otherwise they would have to take them to court.

I think we ALL prefer the idea of having a football game first, as @*aLe says, with different gameplay, maybe even with unique cinematics that add to the inmersion, really detailed gamemodes (like ML or BAL) rather than the whole database behind it. That comes later, and KONAMI clearly know that, because they've left the entire Edit mode open for the past 15 years for users to create and basically do whatever they like with their game. Once the game is done, if your files are easy to access and open, the community will do the work for you.
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As I already said above I prefer completely jobs, like fifa, one great DB and then one completely game, new cinematics, new gameplay,new 3D models,new game modes, we can do it from 0 or edit one game and change everything(for me personally is the same, cause in both cases you have a new product), for licenses is a big conversation better leave it for now!!
 
ryudek said:
The problem is that you're not a small company with history of making games, so unless you show progress of an actual game it will be almost impossible for your project to be funded. There's no previous work, an interview with the leader of the project, etc. People won't trust it unless the presentation of the project is well polished and/or with actual proof of a game being developed.
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I am the leader of the project
 
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