eFootball PES 2021 Discussion Thread (CONSOLES)

aderow said:
I've played BAL and fixed cursor in general exclusively for almost a decade.

The AI is bad. No way around it. At least in traditional matches you can minimize the worst tendencies of the AI because you control their movement off the ball, relatively working, control them on the ball, and most importantly you control the tactics and attack/defense levels which influence everyone else.

There's so much that is fundamentally wrong with how the AI behaves when one side goes attacking or goes defensive. In the former, everything goes to a standstill and in the latter, it's a basketball game.

As for your teammates being worse, it's a common method used to increase difficulty. I get it. It's difficult to code human thought and behavior but man sometimes the AI boosts and teammate nerfs are so obvious and simply aren't fun to deal with.
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That's the first thing I notice on this last PES games. The more you increase the difficulty, the less your players make smart runs.
When you play on professional, your teammates runs everywhere. They dash forward, move backwards to ask for a pass, it's really enjoyable to attack.
 
The biggest problem with BAL (and the game as a whole) is that Konami's scripted narrative (their contrived attempt to keep the scores close and make every match "exciting") always kicks in and ruins nearly every match. No matter how good your team-mates play at times, when the scripted narrative kicks in, it makes them stop playing properly:

eg. when the cpu needs to score, your defenders will stop defending properly by standing off the cpu attackers and not challenge them at the edge of your own box. If you press the "press" button, you defender will deliberately run around the cpu attacker and not attempt top get the ball at all.
eg. if you're winning, to stop you getting too big a lead, your attackers will stop playing properly, so you can pass to them in open space in front of goal and rather than get a shot off (as the cpu controlled team 100% would), it makes you striker deliberately dilly-dally and not shoot until a defender gets back and knocks them off the ball or something.

The AI and Konami's insistence on scripting the narrative of every match is now a huge problem with this game and badly needs a total overhaul. It's impossible to get immersed in a game that simply won't play out genuinely and fairly but insists on interfering to manipulate outcomes rather than adhere to stats and tactics. It's not a genuine simulation at all, it's a rubber-banded arcade game that relies on the same old scripting year after year.
 
normazimuth said:
The biggest problem with BAL (and the game as a whole) is that Konami's scripted narrative (their contrived attempt to keep the scores close and make every match "exciting") always kicks in and ruins nearly every match. No matter how good your team-mates play at times, when the scripted narrative kicks in, it makes them stop playing properly:

eg. when the cpu needs to score, your defenders will stop defending properly by standing off the cpu attackers and not challenge them at the edge of your own box. If you press the "press" button, you defender will deliberately run around the cpu attacker and not attempt top get the ball at all.
eg. if you're winning, to stop you getting too big a lead, your attackers will stop playing properly, so you can pass to them in open space in front of goal and rather than get a shot off (as the cpu controlled team 100% would), it makes you striker deliberately dilly-dally and not shoot until a defender gets back and knocks them off the ball or something.

The AI and Konami's insistence on scripting the narrative of every match is now a huge problem with this game and badly needs a total overhaul. It's impossible to get immersed in a game that simply won't play out genuinely and fairly but insists on interfering to manipulate outcomes rather than adhere to stats and tactics. It's not a genuine simulation at all, it's a rubber-banded arcade game that relies on the same old scripting year after year.
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I've just played a Super Cup game in Master League that I lost 3-2 in the 121st min. They got through on goal with a pass that covered basically 2/3 of the pitch. Naturally I check the replay thinking how the hell has that happened and it's just as you described in your post, the defenders have gone completely AWOL to allow that pass. If you track them rather than the ball on the replay you can see them actually moving out of the way to open the lane for the pass.

It's just such a shame as it was a pretty good even game and the AI actually created some good stuff, I'd have totally accepted losing if some of those good bits of play ended up in goals. The way it plays out though just left me feeling completely cheated and wondering why I bothered.
 
Danny Henry said:
That's the first thing I notice on this last PES games. The more you increase the difficulty, the less your players make smart runs.
When you play on professional, your teammates runs everywhere. They dash forward, move backwards to ask for a pass, it's really enjoyable to attack.
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I think they got that totally wrong. They want you to carry your whole team....and put more pressure on u the higher difficulty u choose. The experience gets really bad when ur teammates cant play properly on the higher levels.

instead they should just let ur teammates play as good on all levels, and just make it harder for ur own player, when dribbling or defend, better goalkeepers etc.

Maybe even the opposite. On low difficulty your teammates and opponents should be crap so u can be the star in the team. On superstar your teammates should be great so it will be tougher to keep place in the team
 
normazimuth said:
The biggest problem with BAL (and the game as a whole) is that Konami's scripted narrative (their contrived attempt to keep the scores close and make every match "exciting") always kicks in and ruins nearly every match. No matter how good your team-mates play at times, when the scripted narrative kicks in, it makes them stop playing properly:

eg. when the cpu needs to score, your defenders will stop defending properly by standing off the cpu attackers and not challenge them at the edge of your own box. If you press the "press" button, you defender will deliberately run around the cpu attacker and not attempt top get the ball at all.
eg. if you're winning, to stop you getting too big a lead, your attackers will stop playing properly, so you can pass to them in open space in front of goal and rather than get a shot off (as the cpu controlled team 100% would), it makes you striker deliberately dilly-dally and not shoot until a defender gets back and knocks them off the ball or something.

The AI and Konami's insistence on scripting the narrative of every match is now a huge problem with this game and badly needs a total overhaul. It's impossible to get immersed in a game that simply won't play out genuinely and fairly but insists on interfering to manipulate outcomes rather than adhere to stats and tactics. It's not a genuine simulation at all, it's a rubber-banded arcade game that relies on the same old scripting year after year.
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he gets it, i get it, most of u get it

my name is baba sheep 🐑 here to serve on the front line against gacha overlords - my regular duty these days

why suffer? why put yourself through the anguish and torment?

why not just - idk - have fun?? ive heard its quite a fun thing to do actually

start here u wont be disappointed:

57815--j-league-jikkyou-winning-eleven-2000.png

I understand I do repeat myself, and I tread on a very thin ice - but please, listen to me, I figured out the problem. I just want to help people. I just want them to realize!

Listen to the sheep 🐑 and also feliz navidad!
 
Saint Angelo said:
I understand I do repeat myself, and I tread on a very thin ice - but please, listen to me, I figured out the problem. I just want to help people. I just want them to realize!

Listen to the sheep 🐑 and also feliz navidad!
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I saw your post on Reddit the other day too whilst searching about Pes
 
I like that, I'm just 10 months old into the Pes series, coming from Fifa which I was tired of, then I played Pes 20, and got 21 recently, I liked them both, solid, but when I delved deep into history of Pes, and downloaded Pes 5 and 6 patch. I discovered these new games are nothing compared to those old ones. I am a Barcelona supporter and I love just passing the ball,in any game passing should be perfected, and I think older pes captures passing perfectly. I am still getting used to the shooting in the games though, I miss many easy chances. :))
 
Barely played 2020 but bought the update to get my football fix.

Wow they really broke the dribbling from 2019 didn't they? They're so close to having a really intuitive and realistic dribbling mechanism but adding the R2 for skills and the right stick dribbling has really messed it up.

There are parts of this game which are nice but ball physics still feel off, collisions horrible and goalkeepers look awful still.

Ultimately the game just feels hollow. It's too repetitive and soulless. Lots of work to do for 2022.
 
Bravez said:
Barely played 2020 but bought the update to get my football fix.

Wow they really broke the dribbling from 2019 didn't they? They're so close to having a really intuitive and realistic dribbling mechanism but adding the R2 for skills and the right stick dribbling has really messed it up.

There are parts of this game which are nice but ball physics still feel off, collisions horrible and goalkeepers look awful still.

Ultimately the game just feels hollow. It's too repetitive and soulless. Lots of work to do for 2022.
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I will never forgive them from moving the dribbling to the right stick. Probably the most unnecessary button remapping in the history of video games (unless someone can raise me?).

The whole beauty of dribbling being on the shoulder button is you can perform it with your finger while using your thumb for the face buttons using muscle memory. Moving it to the RS/R3 means you have to take your thumb of the face buttons, fumble with the stick and multi-task with your thumb on 2 different parts of the pad.

You end up concentrating more timing your fiddles then actually enjoying the challenge of dribbling into a move or shot.
 
Anyone still playing this , I have been messing with tactics a bit more . Not usually a fan of fluid formations but if you switch it on for AI and your team and then keep the default tactics but for out of possession drop everyone as far back as possible and then going forward as far forward but keeping their positions eg CM it prevents the quick transition , long ball and end to end feeling..having some enjoyable games again
 
hitmanuk said:
Anyone still playing this , I have been messing with tactics a bit more . Not usually a fan of fluid formations but if you switch it on for AI and your team and then keep the default tactics but for out of possession drop everyone as far back as possible and then going forward as far forward but keeping their positions eg CM it prevents the quick transition , long ball and end to end feeling..having some enjoyable games again
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I have been playing the odd game, there are little things where I think, wow they really get that right then almost immediately something ridiculous happens 😂

I play 15min games and if I choose not to instantly counter when the CPU attacks break down, the pace and flow of the game is very very good. The way you can take a player out of the game with a realistic touch away from his momentum is captured brilliantly and I have actually noticed a real difference in passing and touches with better players (not enough variation, mind).

CPU controlled players on both teams are so poor it's infuriating, I spend more time tracking runs manually and pressing than I do actually trying to tackle the CPU. The second you stop, the CPU end up through on goal.

I'll definitely have a look at this and see if it helps.

On another note, I always used to play on professional because I prefer playing the game to try and create realistic but imaginative chances rather than for a challenge but it's SO easy. I'm playing superstar and still often battering the CPU, anyone think it's a lot easier than in the past?
 
pellandi said:
I think they got that totally wrong. They want you to carry your whole team....and put more pressure on u the higher difficulty u choose. The experience gets really bad when ur teammates cant play properly on the higher levels.

instead they should just let ur teammates play as good on all levels, and just make it harder for ur own player, when dribbling or defend, better goalkeepers etc.

Maybe even the opposite. On low difficulty your teammates and opponents should be crap so u can be the star in the team. On superstar your teammates should be great so it will be tougher to keep place in the team
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Goalkeepers are definitely better on higher difficulties. I've been seen many goals compilation and I doubt very much that is on higher difficulties. Goalies are almost unbeatable from long range. They go from a crouch stance to a ultra high jump in a second. It defines the laws of inertia, gravity and a human muscle capacity.
 
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Danny Henry said:
Goalkeepers are definitely better on higher difficulties. I've been seen many goals compilation and I doubt very much that is on higher difficulties. Goalies are almost unbeatable from long range. They go from a crouch stance to a ultra high jump in a second. It defines the laws of inertia, gravity and a human muscle capacity.
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Yes absolutely! Goalkeepers are way better on higher difficulties.
My point was regarding when u play ”become a legend” ...that they shouldnt make your teammates play like Sunday league players. Focus on just make the opponents and goalkeepers better on higher difficult
 
Played two seasons of Master League as Schalke and I have to say that compared to 2020 and 2019 there's less scripting overall. It still happens and when it does it will absolutely mean you'll concede a goal but it's not as frequent as before. Most often they're set pieces, especially free kicks resulting from ghost fouls around the box. If the CPU taker has a player with above average FK stats it's a guaranteed goal. The other one is usually a corner from some nonsensical deflection. Your GK then makes a save but can't punch it away resulting in an easy tap-in for the CPU because defenders are frozen in time. These are both extremely annoying moments and they are consistent in terms of the scenario that plays out but fortunately they're not frequent enough to be gamebreaking.

I could go in on the rest of how Master League works as a game mode and how I would like to see it improve but I'm afraid I'd take up an entire page.
 
Damjan said:
Played two seasons of Master League as Schalke and I have to say that compared to 2020 and 2019 there's less scripting overall. It still happens and when it does it will absolutely mean you'll concede a goal but it's not as frequent as before. Most often they're set pieces, especially free kicks resulting from ghost fouls around the box. If the CPU taker has a player with above average FK stats it's a guaranteed goal. The other one is usually a corner from some nonsensical deflection. Your GK then makes a save but can't punch it away resulting in an easy tap-in for the CPU because defenders are frozen in time. These are both extremely annoying moments and they are consistent in terms of the scenario that plays out but fortunately they're not frequent enough to be gamebreaking.

I could go in on the rest of how Master League works as a game mode and how I would like to see it improve but I'm afraid I'd take up an entire page.
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I agree it feels like its less scripting on this version. What i feel tho is, for example in master league. You get into different periods when it feels easier and other its much harder. Sometimes i win 4 in a row and feels like im not gonna lose a single match for the rest of the season. But then i dip and lose 3 in a row, and it feels kinda hopeless.

And before, last few versions of pes and also start of this version most goals i let in was passes up to there striker, with my defender in back he turned, shot and scored. Now most goals i let in is through balls so they get 1 on 1 with my keeper. If i miss to Track their run with my defender im screwed.
 
pellandi said:
I agree it feels like its less scripting on this version. What i feel tho is, for example in master league. You get into different periods when it feels easier and other its much harder. Sometimes i win 4 in a row and feels like im not gonna lose a single match for the rest of the season. But then i dip and lose 3 in a row, and it feels kinda hopeless.

And before, last few versions of pes and also start of this version most goals i let in was passes up to there striker, with my defender in back he turned, shot and scored. Now most goals i let in is through balls so they get 1 on 1 with my keeper. If i miss to Track their run with my defender im screwed.
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I also experienced this, just now I won about ten games on the bounce as Schalke (granted I have signed some players so they're not as terrible as currently in real life). After that three 0-0s in a row where I simply couldn't create any chances. Attacking play sometimes is a bit too easy. I have Uth upfront who is now only a 76 but for some reason he feels like an 85+ rated player. I score hat-tricks with him even against the likes of Bayern and Leverkusen.
 
Damjan said:
especially free kicks resulting from ghost fouls around the box. If the CPU taker has a player with above average FK stats it's a guaranteed goal.
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You can always take control of your gk manually if you press L1+R3 and save it.
If you do this the exact same time that the cpu player begins the animation to take the shoot and you cover the open side of your goal with your gk you will always 100% save the free kick because the cpu always hits it towards this open side of the goal.
I actually don't use it because it's boring to know that you can always save the cpu free kick by doing this so i just prefer to press o to jump with the wall.If it goes in it goes in.But if you want to save it for sure,you can use it.
 
I have given up on PES 2021. It's actually really good on the pitch and the best online experience (divisions/PA0) in a football game ever but the shooting is so predictable and soulless it just makes everything, well, boring.

Superhuman goalies, the same shooting animations over and over and pre- determined outcomes. This takes away one of the best things about PES in the past, unpredictability.

BORING.
 
fregen said:
I have given up on PES 2021. It's actually really good on the pitch and the best online experience (divisions/PA0) in a football game ever but the shooting is so predictable and soulless it just makes everything, well, boring.

Superhuman goalies, the same shooting animations over and over and pre- determined outcomes. This takes away one of the best things about PES in the past, unpredictability.

BORING.
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I've found the love again manual pass and adv shooting , enjoying it after a break
 
fregen said:
I have given up on PES 2021. It's actually really good on the pitch and the best online experience (divisions/PA0) in a football game ever but the shooting is so predictable and soulless it just makes everything, well, boring.

Superhuman goalies, the same shooting animations over and over and pre- determined outcomes. This takes away one of the best things about PES in the past, unpredictability.

BORING.
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Seems you've arrived at pretty much the same point as I did last year, except I didn't rate the rest of the experience very much either except for some nice manual crosses, especially after the demo when they essentially removed referees from online play.

Being this sick of the awful shooting/keepers (on any setting, basic/manual/advanced) there was absolutely no way I wanted to spend even another 10 hours playing the game this year, let alone having to pay for the privilege of this "season update". I have Game Pass Ultimate but still completely uninterested in playing it even if/when it goes "free".

Whatever improvements there might have been from 2020, the shooting alone being so similar/shitty was more than enough reason for me to give this version a miss.
 
hitmanuk said:
Anyone still playing this , I have been messing with tactics a bit more . Not usually a fan of fluid formations but if you switch it on for AI and your team and then keep the default tactics but for out of possession drop everyone as far back as possible and then going forward as far forward but keeping their positions eg CM it prevents the quick transition , long ball and end to end feeling..having some enjoyable games again
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I heard that if you put a glass of warm milk on the right hand side of the table (has to be warm milk and has to be right side) - AI is suddenly becoming more varied and your player awareness increases drastically. Anyone tested this?
 
Emroth said:
I heard that if you put a glass of warm milk on the right hand side of the table (has to be warm milk and has to be right side) - AI is suddenly becoming more varied and your player awareness increases drastically. Anyone tested this?
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I gave it a try and.... THE KING IS BACK!!!!! :SHOCK:

@Emroth Jokes aside, my wife ordered me for Xmas present a disc version of PES2021 season update efootball. Still not sure if i will install it, but at 16€ , seemed a reasonable deal. Playing only PES2021 in LITE version, i am not yet convinced.

After 4 years oh ownning a PS4pro , this is the first time i buy a game in physical and not digital. I do not even know if it is DVD or Blu-RAy??!!!! :P
And plot twist...... imagine my PS4 disc drive is not working from factory fault!!!!!!!!! :P:shiver: i will discover it now!!! :P
 
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I think PES 2021 is a good game. Considering how much it costs now, it's damn good even. Get an option file in there, and it's pretty immersive too. I hope there is a football game in out future that blows the current games away with innovations and immersion. But as it stands, I am quite happy with it. It's not that long ago that PES was a game that had multiple backheel passes, even successive ones, per game. Then there was the one that the AI could literally only score one type of goal, through pass, one on one with the keeper, done. And the way they patched it was to have a player clear on goal move away from it, to the wing, to cut it back into the box instead. So there was still just the one, although different, way to score a goal. I still played those games quite a bit because after all, manual passing is usually quite rewarding. I cannot stress enough, even if most likely everyone here is sick to death of it, how much manual passing does for PES. In an alternative world, where it was never introduced, I might still be buying it every year. But knowing the difference, the game is completely unplayable without it. Manual shooting is pretty good too, my preferred option this year (except for online because I can't miss that open goal sitter against some 12 year old PA lover) but I hope they come up with more variation there in the next game.
 
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