eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

[normazimuth]

Id agree with you to a point.
Unfortunately - in the long run - even professional difficulty will give you moments where you just want to strangle whoever coded this game. It happens less often, but after a while of playing ML on Professional - those moments will accumulate and drive you insane.

As it stands - there are no settings on earth that can make the game fair and enjoyable. Not in Master League anyway.

It absolutely also happens on Regular difficulty on Exhibition matches, particularly if you are winning at half-time, which you will nearly always be. In the second half, the momentum in favour of the cpu team becomes very strong until it gets a goal. You can still score during this period but the handicapping for you and boost for the cpu is utterly blatant.

It's quite interesting to switch sides when it happens, then try and give the ball to the cpu, which is now in control of the handicapped team, and they are just not interested in chasing the ball. Your guys (you are now controlling the boosted team) are basically scripted to get to the ball first, it's like a gravitational pull sucking the boosted players in to the ball, and you have to work hard using super-cancel to stop your guys getting to the ball first. Meanwhile the handicapped players are continually stopping to ensure they don't get to the ball. You can graphically see how the AI engine works and how primitive it looks. These moments are essentially scripted.

 

[slamsoze]

After 3 years , 3 PES games (2018-2019-2020) i concluded from the hundres of ML saves i have played and restarted, going directly from high TS to low TS, that until you build up 90+ TS, you cannot have clear picture about the CPU difficulty in ML, cause in short terms, it is a cheat fest, just to make the game more challenging.

It is like i did the same experiment many times accidentally, reaching 5th season with high TS then restarting my ML with a team with TS around 50s-60s and it is like i forgot to play the game. Just makes me go to settings and check what difficulty i am on, i am always in the same difficulty btw.

So in order to make the game more "challenging" , TS comes as a first priority, then derby matches, then difficulty level , then competition : league/cup/CL/EL and then player stats, counting from most effective to less effective in terms of manipulation and handicapping of your players.

And i always talk about true TS, the one that comes before any teamrole players, captains , etc. The other TS, helps a little, but it is not as powerful as the TRUE TS.

 

[slamsoze]

To give an analogy, it is exaclty like a J-RPG. You are in the starting town Level 3 character and in the first route, you encounter random opponents level 1~2, where you must hit them 5 or 6 times in order to win them. Imagine being level 3 and going to face the final boss, level 100!!! Or when you are over level 20~30 , that you can one hit the level 1~2 opponents while grinding.

In PES it is similar, just the opponents have all 99 TS from the begining, it does not scale with user's TS. So you must level up your team in e very hostile environment.

 

[Nikodemus]

So much this!

I was asking myself the same question few days ago: Do they even simulate TS for the CPU? And it's obviously that they do not.

I'm aware of problems that may rise up from trying to simulate everything, specially in a game with a database that might get bigger every next iteration: you'll get bloating, hence why in games like Football Manager you get to choose how and which leagues you want to simulate at the beginning of every save.

But gosh darn it, isn't it difficult to simulate for at least the teams participating in the same competitions as your team for the season? It won't be greater than 5 or 6 competitions. Assuming EPL = 20 teams (Div. 1) + FA Cup (24 teams, minus the 20 already at EPL) + UCL (around 40 accouting the play-offs) + WCC (3 more). That's likely fewer than 100 teams with simulated spirit in the worst case scenario.

It certainly won't bloat the save file.

 

[slamsoze]

So much this!

I was asking myself the same question few days ago: Do they even simulate TS for the CPU? And it's obviously that they do not.

I'm aware of problems that may rise up from trying to simulate everything, specially in a game with a database that might get bigger every next iteration: you'll get bloating, hence why in games like Football Manager you get to choose how and which leagues you want to simulate at the beginning of every save.

But gosh darn it, isn't it difficult to simulate for at least the teams participating in the same competitions as your team for the season? It won't be greater than 5 or 6 competitions. Assuming EPL = 20 teams (Div. 1) + FA Cup (24 teams, minus the 20 already at EPL) + UCL (around 40 accouting the play-offs) + WCC (3 more). That's likely fewer than 100 teams with simulated spirit in the worst case scenario.

It certainly won't bloat the save file.

In PES 2016 , where the CPU TS was visible, it had some norms according to difficulty level and team rating strength. I.E. Man united on superstar had 95+, Leeds United would have 65~70. On Top Player Man United would have 85+ and lesser teams would have 60~65. It was rigid , but it had some diversity. After 2016, every cpu team, especially in superstar just has 99 TS...

I don't know if it was a designer option, or a shortcut to better "challenge"..

That's why i am every year from the 1~2 person that does not demand the TS to be removed. I just ask to go back to basics, as it used to work in PES 2016 and maybe 2017.

 

[Emroth]

In PES 2016 , where the CPU TS was visible, it had some norms according to difficulty level and team rating strength. I.E. Man united on superstar had 95+, Leeds United would have 65~70. On Top Player Man United would have 85+ and lesser teams would have 60~65. It was rigid , but it had some diversity. After 2016, every cpu team, especially in superstar just has 99 TS...

I don't know if it was a designer option, or a shortcut to better "challenge"..

That's why i am every year from the 1~2 person that does not demand the TS to be removed. I just ask to go back to basics, as it used to work in PES 2016 and maybe 2017.

Its an interesting read.
The question I have is - why did I see couple of people, who said that ML is grand (which i strongly disagree with) but then after 4 or 5 season its becoming unplayable due to HUM team handicap and COM boost?

Im not gonna lie - since Pes17 i did not have a single ML save, where I would last that long. Usually game was breaking me after 1 or 2 seasons.
But if what you're saying is true - the amount of season should not matter as once you get your TS to high 90's - it should play ok. Unless there is another (script?) kicking in after 4/5 seasons just to finish the last few who are still standing..

 

[slamsoze]

Its an interesting read.
The question I have is - why did I see couple of people, who said that ML is grand (which i strongly disagree with) but then after 4 or 5 season its becoming unplayable due to HUM team handicap and COM boost?

Im not gonna lie - since Pes17 i did not have a single ML save, where I would last that long. Usually game was breaking me after 1 or 2 seasons.
But if what you're saying is true - the amount of season should not matter as once you get your TS to high 90's - it should play ok. Unless there is another (script?) kicking in after 4/5 seasons just to finish the last few who are still standing..

I believe , as those things are complicated, the high TS makes your team play with less handicap, I.E. your 90 speed player will run for 90 speed, while in low TS your 90 speed will run as 65, the mud-effect. This is on the Handicap part. For the situation you describe, i feel it as the CPU boosting part.

Where the CPU just blatantly manipulates their stats, IE the 65 rated player will do things of an 90 rated player. Or the opponent team will play faster than yours as a group, laser one touch passing, etc.

I mean the game messes with your team stast in low TS, but in high TS stops messing with your stast and boosting one-sided the CPU team. Like an adaptive difficulty mechanism.

To be honest i have never felt this situation, after 5 seasons to be completelly helpess, permanently. Now i am for first time to surpass 2025, if i keep the curernt save, which is season 6. So i will keep records if i see this behaviour to happening in every match.

Then maybe it is up to difficulty level, in Legend i sure believe it is unplayable totally, in superstar it has periods that cheats you.

Then in superstar i see different approach, IE in low TS the CPU CF 70 rated will score a hat-trick against me, with some world class , one touch shoots and controls. In high TS he can't do the same, but he can score one shitty goal and then rely on All out Defense and a Superman goalkeeper that jumps in slow motions and saves everything, resulting in a 0-1 loss for me. In the same occasion in low TS it would be a 0-2 or 0-3 loss for me, with shoots/chances 3/3 while i have 15/12 and 0 goal.


I can tell you more theories, but not a clear answer, cause the game is so much manipulated, more or less depended on TS, that i cannot say something clear as explanation.

If i could make an @$$-pull assumption: In low TS i feel 90% cheated, in high TS i feel 50% cheated.

 

[saintric]

Mastering the SS in one season is too soon, as the core ML-TS mechanics work now. You must wait until second season at least, when your real TS, this that comes before any team role effect, will hit 85+. Then is the point that you can evaluate the mastery level.

There still will be CPU BS, but having the real TS 85~90 makes your team play close to exhibition mode game play.

In my current save, reaching 2025 by now it happened two times to me. Switched clubs in January, started with a "disguised" 80+ TS, the real TS without the captain with teamrole effect was 60+ and my win rate was 33%. Next season same roster, true TS 85, disguised TS 90 and I run a 15W-1D-1L. Unfortunately you have always to waste a season, no matter what, in order to build up the proper TS, so you can rate your mastery level. Everything earlier, is just distorted by the heavy effect of low TS. Before any shitty CPU cheating, boosting, handicap.

If you have the patience to reach 2nd or 3rd season with same or similar roster and high real TS you will be amazed by yourself and what you see. Judging by first season only, is impossible to have a safe result of your mastery level, cause the intervantion of CPU handicap on your players is too intensive.

hey thanks for the tips and advice and yea i certainly haven't mastered the game but I think I have got better and using tactics that are really suiting me im currently 19 games in only 2 defeats but lots of draws though but my defending is good and im hard to beat so im always grabbing points grinding out results when needed. My team spirit is at 68 started to notice im connecting with my crosses more now and scoring from them where as before they felt useless

 

[slamsoze]

hey thanks for the tips and advice and yea i certainly haven't mastered the game but I think I have got better and using tactics that are really suiting me im currently 19 games in only 2 defeats but lots of draws though but my defending is good and im hard to beat so im always grabbing points grinding out results when needed. My team spirit is at 68 started to notice im connecting with my crosses more now and scoring from them where as before they felt useless

Just a clarification by re-reading my post. I don't mean, that you have not mastered at all the gameplay. I wanted to mean that playing in low TS, you cannot see your own potential. I still have not even reached 99 TS to see if there is a full potential.

Also when i said you will be "amazed" it was more an exaggeration. I did not mean that the game becomes flawless.

 

[saintric]

Just a clarification by re-reading my post. I don't mean, that you have not mastered at all the gameplay. I wanted to mean that playing in low TS, you cannot see your own potential. I still have not even reached 99 TS to see if there is a full potential.

Also when i said you will be "amazed" it was more an exaggeration. I did not mean that the game becomes flawless.

Lol no problem I understood what you mean it's cool appreciate the heads up about TS I know this game will always have its frustrating tendencies due to the shortcuts they took to make it difficult I just want to at least find some enjoyable moments in it

 

[slamsoze]

If i can make a comparison, as i just finished a game i won Aston Villa 0-2.
On SUPERSTAR level i "usually like" the way CPU wins me but i HATE the gameplay when i win, i mean all tendencies and attacking patterns are the same routine for me, not much diversity.

On The other hand on TOP PLAYER, i like the freedom of my playstyle when i win, but i hate the way the CPU wins me, it feels cheap and not even one dimensional.

Of course i exclude all matches that the Ai plays in supercheat mode. I hope it makes sense.

 

[slamsoze]

An update on difficulty levels, just finished my cup match against Aston Villa (again, back to back VS them in 5 days), unfortunately forgot to take picture of the match stats.

What i want to say summarised in this cup match about Superstar purpose. It really breaks my nerves that after almost one year, i still do not know what level i should play this game. I mean in Superstar in this cup match, i had this shitty all-out-defence approach, that the game would not let me score no matter what. I finally scored in extra time, cutback pass and tap in in the empty net. Checking the stats in extra time pause, it was Aston Vila shoots(ontarget) 1(1), me 14(9).
i kept questioning myself, that since i would win this match either way, what's the point of torture myself in Superstar, when the AI will just defense like shitty-cheat engine. On the other hand, i feel crazy that i still play this game, trying different things and settings at this point.

To be honest i do not have much hopes, i just hope i will reach a point where i will either know what level i should settle for, or i will stop questioning my self "why am i playing this?".

 

[slamsoze]

And another dull game in SS. 2-1 win vs a helpless ManU. CPU 1 shot, 1 chance, 1 goal. What's the point of restrict the freedom of TP playing in SS, when the AI is so bad. I mean since the AI can play only in the matches that it is cheating you, what's the purpose.
If you are going to be cheated, just be cheated with style at least

 

[tosser]

And another dull game in SS. 2-1 win vs a helpless ManU. CPU 1 shot, 1 chance, 1 goal. What's the point of restrict the freedom of TP playing in SS, when the AI is so bad. I mean since the AI can play only in the matches that it is cheating you, what's the purpose.
If you are going to be cheated, just be cheated with style at least

If you insist on playing this abysmal game then stick to professional or top player. Superstar is revolting even when you're winning.

Scripting will dictate that you'll get the occasional hard game on the lower levels.

 

[slamsoze]

If you insist on playing this abysmal game then stick to professional or top player. Superstar is revolting even when you're winning.

Scripting will dictate that you'll get the occasional hard game on the lower levels.

I am among nightmares these days... Superstar VS TopPlayer and PES 2020 VS PES 2019... ( i play most TOP PLAYER to reply to your previous comment).

PES 2019 feels better when attacking, due to being more free than 2020, BUT feels as hell when defending, especially when defenders start taking awkward positions and the CPU start its shitty low crosses and tap in high corner shots. Attacking teammates take better positions and movements off the ball in 2019 to be fair.

On the other hand PES 2020 feels slower in pace, which helps more calm gameplay, the defending is better than 2019, except for the moment that the player cannot locate where is the ball, or leaves his current position to go to an other one, or the CPU goes in super shielding moment, where you have 2 players hanged in an opponent, who pushed them back easily and just pivots and shoots as a walk in the park. Also while attacking, the movement is more rigid in 2019.

Then passing the gameplay and focusing on editing possibilities , which is the supposedly advantage of 2019 and 2020 compared to previous PESes, 2019 breaks your nerves the moment you face the first bad effects, no 2nd divisions, Thai League playing in "hidden" mode. 2020 has those fixes, but after the Live Update of 16/07/2020 combined with the DP 8.0 ML fix, KONAMI created a new bug that flags most players as "Live Update added", which means no possibility to revert to default and basecopy method is 5x times slower no, if not impossible. I almost stopped editing PES 2020 after this KONAMI bug.

To summarise , both games seem to have severe issues with the game AI, nothing new here....But it really let's me disappointed that those issues were not there in the past. I mean a 2019-2020 gameplay with the AI of 2015-2016-2017, or even 2011-2012-2013 AI, would be a much better game. It leaves you with a sour taste of a lost chance here..

 

[Redhat]

except for the moment that the player cannot locate where is the ball, or leaves his current position to go to an other one, or the CPU goes in super shielding moment, where you have 2 players hanged in an opponent, who pushed them back easily and just pivots and shoots as a walk in the park. Also while attacking, the movement is more rigid in

Booted up 2020 last night, had this happen to me 2-3 times in one half, exited the game.

To summarise , both games seem to have severe issues with the game AI, nothing new here....But it really let's me disappointed that those issues were not there in the past. I mean a 2019-2020 gameplay with the AI of 2015-2016-2017, or even 2011-2012-2013 AI, would be a much better game. It leaves you with a sour taste of a lost chance here..

It's true. If my players didn't avoid the ball like it was an IED, it would be a lot more enjoyable than it is now. What if the CPU were to score there? What if it it was an important, must win match in ML? It's the type of thing that makes you switch sides and score an OG to even things up. It doesn't occur once in a blue moon, but multiple times every single match.

 

[hitmanuk]

If you insist on playing this abysmal game then stick to professional or top player. Superstar is revolting even when you're winning.

Scripting will dictate that you'll get the occasional hard game on the lower levels.

maybe the secret to enjoying this game is a custom cup with a poor team against decent teams but on a lower difficulty

 

[vxcmplx]

I've said it before but the biggest shock I ever had with PES (2019 I think it was), was playing the ML on Regular (or Professional, I forget), just to see what happened. I'd never gone below Top Player before.

And it was genuinely shocking. Moving my players around, they had a freedom I'd never felt up to that point. It was like I was playing PES 2022, in all seriousness - the gameplay was THAT different.

That's when I realised that the difficulty levels are much less "opponent difficulty" and much more "the ability of your players difficulty".

Since then, playing PES on a challenging difficulty has just felt like playing a really old, poorly animated game (where your players stumble at the mere sight of a defender), with a laggy controller, via the world's shittest WiFi. The complete opposite of realism - yet it's lauded for realism.

If that's the only way they can make the game difficult, then A) they don't deserve my money and B) PES 2022 was DESPERATELY NEEDED.

So I have to support their plan, to essentially "skip" 2021. I'm not interested in this same, shitty "shortcut the programming to make the game difficult" game for the next ten years. Enough...

Same can be said about the assisted levels of passing. Pass assistance level 0,1,2,3... They all have some amount of artificial aided correction in power and direction. It just goes up more and more with each level. Pass path adjusted, snap zones bigger (less grey zone between players). Who can say which PA level is any more or less based on stats. It's just the same performance of the same stats, but with an artificial adjustment level enforced on top of it. The degree of the adjustment increases as you increase the PA level, that's all it is. Maybe if they call it PA 1,4,6,10 instead of PA0,1,2,3... It would better represent the linear progression

 

[Danny Henry]

This game have its flaws, is very cheated some times but I have to admit that the goal scoring feeling is fantastic.


Scored this two on TP, FUMA on a very cheated match. It looks simple but it took me out of my chair.

 

[aderow]

Only way to bother with ML is to understand sign a few smart players and make one of them captain. That way you're TS is in the 90s from the get go. It's dumb that it's like this, but it's either that or suffering.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Only way to bother with ML is to understand sign a few smart players and make one of them captain. That way you're TS is in the 90s from the get go. It's dumb that it's like this, but it's either that or suffering.

I tried signing those players with the special roles and put them on the pitch. This got my team spirit up but won’t cover the flaws in gameplay overall, imo. Plus the my club online gameplay is totally different to the offline gameplay, imo.

 

[Ameobinho]

Sums up the game perfectly

 

[slamsoze]

I tried signing those players with the special roles and put them on the pitch. This got my team spirit up but won’t cover the flaws in gameplay overall, imo. Plus the my club online gameplay is totally different to the offline gameplay, imo.

I've covered this earlier. It's the masked TS, that comes after team role effects. It helps in the beginning but not as much as possible.

What makes the whole change is the real TS, which comes with player stats and affinities in tactics, before any team role effect.

 

[Peter Withe]

This game have its flaws, is very cheated some times but I have to admit that the goal scoring feeling is fantastic.


Scored this two on TP, FUMA on a very cheated match. It looks simple but it took me out of my chair.

I couldn’t disagree more. Even with FUMA scoring goals in this version of PES feels dull as dishwater. It’s why I get bored of PES quickly these days - it’s competitor’s game is so varied in the goal scoring department it makes PES feel like a game stuck in the 90s.

I’d love PES 2022 to have PES 2020’s slow gameplay etc but with FIFA’s shooting mechanics.

 

[PRO_TOO]

 

[PRO_TOO]

MORE AND MORE AND MORE...

 

[vxcmplx]

Guy scores a goal I've never seen before on his first night on full manual...

 

[cgw5971]

Only way to bother with ML is to understand sign a few smart players and make one of them captain. That way you're TS is in the 90s from the get go. It's dumb that it's like this, but it's either that or suffering.

What Skills/qualities differentiate a "SMART" player.... ?

 

[aderow]

I tried signing those players with the special roles and put them on the pitch. This got my team spirit up but won’t cover the flaws in gameplay overall, imo. Plus the my club online gameplay is totally different to the offline gameplay, imo.

Oh I agree. Just saying that getting your TS up as high as possible gives you the chance to get you to the best it can be even if the best really isn't that great.

What Skills/qualities differentiate a "SMART" player.... ?

There a few player roles, smart player included, that have the benefit of improving team spirit instantly.

I don't like the system tbf. But if TS is gonna be central to ML, then I feel like it's a necessity imo

 

[cgw5971]

Oh I agree. Just saying that getting your TS up as high as possible gives you the chance to get you to the best it can be even if the best really isn't that great.



There a few player roles, smart player included, that have the benefit of improving team spirit instantly.

I don't like the system tbf. But if TS is gonna be central to ML, then I feel like it's a necessity imo

In my game, there's no Smart Player role. Do you refer to "Creative Playmaker"?