eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

Totally!
While some guys believe that sliders were a good option for this game, I don´t. I would rather have on/off options for things like TS, apply latest update, etc... I do get the TS thing, but it´s too overrated. I think instead, every player should have a "Stress stat" and "adpatabilty stat".

The later would indicate how long he wood take to actually play to his full potential when he moves to a new team. The "stress stat" would be interesting, has it would decrease his abilities on more important/dificult matches. Of course that good players would have a good rating, so they would perform pretty much the same on every match, while younger or weaker players, would have a noticeable reduction on stats like passing or finishing. Almost like TS, but this way it would work both ways. It´s really stupid that TS only affects the player´s team, not the CPU.
 
aderow said:
I'm pretty sure they've been doing that for 3 years mate lol
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PES 2018 was total shit on release and took basically 2 months to become playable.

PES 2019 was good, but had some critical errors (Low cross bug) and the disgraceful ML Transfer bug and again took about 2 months to get very good.

PES 2020 was really good albeit with errors up until this latest data pack where its now shit tbh. Makes no sense, just bugs galore, i was really enjoying my ML with Marseille on 1.04 and all. Now i will have to annoyingly roll back my .exe to play offline.

xicpanad said:
Totally!
While some guys believe that sliders were a good option for this game, I don´t. I would rather have on/off options for things like TS, apply latest update, etc... I do get the TS thing, but it´s too overrated. I think instead, every player should have a "Stress stat" and "adpatabilty stat".

The later would indicate how long he wood take to actually play to his full potential when he moves to a new team. The "stress stat" would be interesting, has it would decrease his abilities on more important/dificult matches. Of course that good players would have a good rating, so they would perform pretty much the same on every match, while younger or weaker players, would have a noticeable reduction on stats like passing or finishing. Almost like TS, but this way it would work both ways. It´s really stupid that TS only affects the player´s team, not the CPU.
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agreed about sliders, i do not want sliders. I don't want a FIFA like situation where devs don't even care about fundamentals and leave it to the community to spend ages to find some balance which is playable. This is the one thing i really enjoy about PES and while it does cheat, once you master the game offline is a joy because the game gives you a real and serious challenge on Superstar and well, Legend but legend is hard for hards sake really.

PES pushes me and makes me have to think and get my tactics right and respect player values, FIFA doesn't whatsoever.

This mentality in getting the core right has helped put PES is a good place right now and helped develop it score fundamentals so its so, so far ahead of FIFA in this regards there's no comparison anymore in gameplay.

Its the presentation and shit default tactics which really are the main incompetence which needs addressing. This really hurts myclub experience and why people do all these fucking stupid weird formations to exploit the game.
 
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xicpanad said:
Totally!
While some guys believe that sliders were a good option for this game, I don´t. I would rather have on/off options for things like TS, apply latest update, etc... I do get the TS thing, but it´s too overrated. I think instead, every player should have a "Stress stat" and "adpatabilty stat".

The later would indicate how long he wood take to actually play to his full potential when he moves to a new team. The "stress stat" would be interesting, has it would decrease his abilities on more important/dificult matches. Of course that good players would have a good rating, so they would perform pretty much the same on every match, while younger or weaker players, would have a noticeable reduction on stats like passing or finishing. Almost like TS, but this way it would work both ways. It´s really stupid that TS only affects the player´s team, not the CPU.
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Except you do though. By suggesting adding options for a simulation mode and an arcade mode, you're asking for something that augments how attributes are weighted and impact gameplay. That's what sliders do. The only difference is you can't see them or change them.

If we're adding mental attributes, we can do a lot more than just how they deal with pressure and moving to a new club. We could totally go down the football manager route in that regard. That's the dream tbf.

klashman69 said:
PES 2018 was total shit on release and took basically 2 months to become playable.

PES 2019 was good, but had some critical errors (Low cross bug) and the disgraceful ML Transfer bug and again took about 2 months to get very good.

PES 2020 was really good albeit with errors up until this latest data pack where its now shit tbh. Makes no sense, just bugs galore, i was really enjoying my ML with Marseille on 1.04 and all. Now i will have to annoyingly roll back my .exe to play offline.
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What ruined 2019 for me was the AI honestly. Ping pong and bad defensive positioning. I couldn't deal with it. Otherwise i do think the game was ok.

2018 was too clean. And still is.

2020 is the most frustrated I've been. Because there's a lot about it i think is good, but it just doesn't overcome the bad.

klashman69 said:
agreed about sliders, i do not want sliders. I don't want a FIFA like situation where devs don't even care about fundamentals and leave it to the community to spend ages to find some balance which is playable. This is the one thing i really enjoy about PES and while it does cheat, once you master the game offline is a joy because the game gives you a real and serious challenge on Superstar and well, Legend but legend is hard for hards sake really.

PES pushes me and makes me have to think and get my tactics right and respect player values, FIFA doesn't whatsoever.

This mentality in getting the core right has helped put PES is a good place right now and helped develop it score fundamentals so its so, so far ahead of FIFA in this regards there's no comparison anymore in gameplay.

Its the presentation and shit default tactics which really are the main incompetence which needs addressing. This really hurts myclub experience and why people do all these fucking stupid weird formations to exploit the game.
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We don't have sliders in PES and yet the game clearly doesn't have logic for transitions. I can't say PES is better when it comes to the fundamental side of the game because it's missing an entire phase of the game.

Both PES and FIFA clearly prioritize things outside of fundamental aspects of football. One not having sliders doesn't change they imo. It's not like not having sliders has made the current form of PES enjoyable has it? Lol

And honestly, whether or not you see them, they're there. Like i said earlier, all they do is augment the equations in the engine that calculate the outcomes we see on the screen. Whether or not we see or have the ability to tweak them via a menu doesn't change that.

Heck it's how they make difficulty settings; different algorithms are weighted differently under the hood.

Agreed on tactics. I am not happy with how the tactics system works.
 
aderow said:
Except you do though. By suggesting adding options for a simulation mode and an arcade mode, you're asking for something that augments how attributes are weighted and impact gameplay. That's what sliders do. The only difference is you can't see them or change them.

If we're adding mental attributes, we can do a lot more than just how they deal with pressure and moving to a new club. We could totally go down the football manager route in that regard. That's the dream tbf.



What ruined 2019 for me was the AI honestly. Ping pong and bad defensive positioning. I couldn't deal with it. Otherwise i do think the game was ok.

2018 was too clean. And still is.

2020 is the most frustrated I've been. Because there's a lot about it i think is good, but it just doesn't overcome the bad.



We don't have sliders in PES and yet the game clearly doesn't have logic for transitions. I can't say PES is better when it comes to the fundamental side of the game because it's missing an entire phase of the game.
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What concerns me was all the wrong feedback given by players back when the game was released, people were moaning that the Defence line was too far from the midfield and that's caused a number of issues i think in later patches since now the midfield is too deep in general which invites teams to attackwithout enough pressure, this which disrupts the natural transition. this was the wrong feedback, the true issue comes from the massive incompetence as usual from the people who do tactics since especially for the EPL and Championship teams every single team has fucking deep defensive line, even City who have swarm the box sit too deep.

plus still there is a horrible striker defence bug where the AI midfield becomes a 6 with the lone striker joining as a extra center mid when the team sets itself to 'defensive' in awareness with fluid formation set on.

Both PES and FIFA clearly prioritize things outside of fundamental aspects of football. One not having sliders doesn't change they imo. It's not like not having sliders has made the current form of PES enjoyable has it? Lol

And honestly, whether or not you see them, they're there. Like i said earlier, all they do is augment the equations in the engine that calculate the outcomes we see on the screen. Whether or not we see or have the ability to tweak them via a menu doesn't change that.

Heck it's how they make difficulty settings; different algorithms are weighted differently under the hood.

Agreed on tactics. I am not happy with how the tactics system works.
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It has for me, because it shows Konami have a base gameplay they work on each year and its fundamentals, simple things like ball physics, player momentum, body shape affecting your passes, shots etc.. . EA divert your attention every year to some new bullshit feature and change the games extremes from one style to another while the fundamentals such as ball physics remain broken from years and years.

I can boot up PES and with the tactics sorted out i know i'm going to 8/10 enjoy myself having intense games vs the AI if i win or lose.
 
aderow said:
At the same, I still feel my point on the consumer is an important one; I mean these marketing strategies wouldn't be employed if they didn't work right? Hence why they spend so much on licensing leagues, competitions, and faces.
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Ah I've figured it out!

The advertising industry is worth about $500b worldwide. And it's worth that because it makes people do things that they would not ordinarily do like eat terrible food, kill themselves with smoking and prioritise licensing over actual gameplay!

So I actually think that this rests with the gaming companies. It's easier to buy up licences than it is to overcome the admittedly big challenges we've mentioned.

aderow said:
That's one thing this game has incorporated but I'm not entirely sure how. Misses do happen because of defensive pressure. That's is something I've definitely experienced. But I don't know if it's something that is influenced by attributes or skills or if it's the same regardless of player.
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I think the issue is the pressure needs to happen all over the pitch. We shouldn't have time to think on the ball. We should be forced into planning one or two moves ahead. Otherwise with our helicopter view and more unpredictable play we're always going to have an advantage over the computer.

This comes from a completely different set up with, as you've mentioned, defensive lines pushed up to narrow the space in midfield, far closer marking of players, the right sort of pressure on players that does not involve fouling/cheating but simply leaning in, forcing players onto the weaker foot.

In fairness this sort of happens in Super Star but that also relies on a huge dollop of cheating so it becomes very frustrating. At the moment I'm stuck between Top Player and Super Star. I find the former too easy and the latter too frustrating. It'd be better if the pressure on Super Star came from something the computer was doing tactically rather than relying on different laws of physics.

aderow said:
My belief is that the lack of fouls comes from the flaws in the collision engine and the animations themselves. I get a decent amount of fouls. The AI will foul me and my teammates (I play fixed cursor/BAL) 5-7 times a match (20 minute matches). It should definitely be more.

The collision engine in its current form is very poor. It doesn't call anywhere near enough fouls for all the collisions that happen in this game. Not to mention the delay when you are tackled when it feels like your player is stunned. Or you player's inability to avoid tackles. It needs to be looked at.
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The ridiculous thing is this was never an issue in games 20 years ago. I don't remember going this many games back in the early PES games. It was never an issue. Whether they have now overcomplicated things or have deliberately made the decision to keep game flowing or to make more challenging, but it's kind of inexcusable in 2020.

There are so many consequences - a lack of free kick and penalty opportunities, a lack of yellow and red cards, never experiencing the challenging fo playing with or against 10 men, no need for sub-GKs, just lots of real life scenarios that are simply absent from a game in 2020.

aderow said:
Lol mate I have no idea how to explain it. I don't know what I might be doing differently and it isn't just me. My AI teammates have won penalties too.
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I tend not to dribble too much which admittedly will reduce the prevalence. But still there have been opportunities to award penalties. And in games I'm winning comfortably all I do is try and win penalties by dribbling into the box but I just cannot win a penalty.

aderow said:
The defensive goalkeeper player type is dreadful. That's why keepers stay on their lines. I hate it. I always make sure my keepers are offensive goalkeepers.
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Thanks for the heads up about this. I might edit the AI GK's to make them offensive keepers and hopefully this will improve things.

I'm on a roll....
 
klashman69 said:
What concerns me was all the wrong feedback given by players back when the game was released, people were moaning that the Defence line was too far from the midfield and that's caused a number of issues i think in later patches since now the midfield is too deep in general which invites teams to attackwithout enough pressure, this which disrupts the natural transition. this was the wrong feedback, the true issue comes from the massive incompetence as usual from the people who do tactics since especially for the EPL and Championship teams every single team has fucking deep defensive line, even City who have swarm the box sit too deep.

plus still there is a horrible striker defence bug where the AI midfield becomes a 6 with the lone striker joining as a extra center mid when the team sets itself to 'defensive' in awareness with fluid formation set on.
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I take feedback with a grain of salt because most players have little to no knowledge on the fundamentals of real life football or game design and so much of feedback ends up being contradictory (for most issues that people raise, you'll find people who feel the opposite about said issue). Hence, I don't think Konami listens to ordinary folk as much as it's assumed they do.

I have no idea why and how so many teams have deep defensive line or swarm the box on by default. I hate both of those instructions honestly. It comes off as lazy implementation.

klashman69 said:
It has for me, because it shows Konami have a base gameplay they work on each year and its fundamentals, simple things like ball physics, player momentum, body shape affecting your passes, shots etc.. . EA divert your attention every year to some new bullshit feature and change the games extremes from one style to another while the fundamentals such as ball physics remain broken from years and years.

I can boot up PES and with the tactics sorted out i know i'm going to 8/10 enjoy myself having intense games vs the AI if i win or lose.
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I wish I shared the same feelings. But I've begun to accept that, given I play fixed cursor, my experience isn't going to be the same as those who don't. When you're in control of everyone, there are things you can deal with that you can't when you are only controlling one player. Hence why, besides PES 2017 and 2020 for a little bit before the current patch, I can't say that I have had much enjoyment with PES be it vanilla or edited.

I'm not gonna criticize EAs marketing team for doing their job and doing it well. I will, though, criticize their executives for forgetting what got that company to the heights its reached in the first place. And I'll reserve my right to not give them any of my money.
 
MyNoFoot said:
Ah I've figured it out!

The advertising industry is worth about $500b worldwide. And it's worth that because it makes people do things that they would not ordinarily do like eat terrible food, kill themselves with smoking and prioritise licensing over actual gameplay!

So I actually think that this rests with the gaming companies. It's easier to buy up licences than it is to overcome the admittedly big challenges we've mentioned.
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Steve Jobs said best himself. It's amazing how effective marketing has become. I can't disgree with what you've said about it. I'll just say that FIFAs and PESs issued are related to what licenses said games have and don't have and more towards what aspects of the game both companies choose to focus on imo.

MyNoFoot said:
I think the issue is the pressure needs to happen all over the pitch. We shouldn't have time to think on the ball. We should be forced into planning one or two moves ahead. Otherwise with our helicopter view and more unpredictable play we're always going to have an advantage over the computer.

This comes from a completely different set up with, as you've mentioned, defensive lines pushed up to narrow the space in midfield, far closer marking of players, the right sort of pressure on players that does not involve fouling/cheating but simply leaning in, forcing players onto the weaker foot.

In fairness this sort of happens in Super Star but that also relies on a huge dollop of cheating so it becomes very frustrating. At the moment I'm stuck between Top Player and Super Star. I find the former too easy and the latter too frustrating. It'd be better if the pressure on Super Star came from something the computer was doing tactically rather than relying on different laws of physics.
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See that's where things get a bit tricky. Because we are talking about things that aren't tangible and, in order to put them in the game, we have figure out how to quantify it. Well not us. That's Konami's job. Unless they wanna pay me because that sounds like something that's really freaking hard to do lol

Other than that, what you're talking about is making the game smarter which, as I mentioned, I don't know if they necessarily want.

I think, ultimately, we are a long way from having an offline experience in any sports game where the higher difficulties aren't cheat-y. Unless a company decides to dedicate all of their resources to creating the best offline experience they can. Which is unlikely tbf.

MyNoFoot said:
The ridiculous thing is this was never an issue in games 20 years ago. I don't remember going this many games back in the early PES games. It was never an issue. Whether they have now overcomplicated things or have deliberately made the decision to keep game flowing or to make more challenging, but it's kind of inexcusable in 2020.

There are so many consequences - a lack of free kick and penalty opportunities, a lack of yellow and red cards, never experiencing the challenging fo playing with or against 10 men, no need for sub-GKs, just lots of real life scenarios that are simply absent from a game in 2020.
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You got me feeling a bit nostalgic. PES 6 was my first PES. I remember when I first played it and that sensation of having no space or time in midfield. That some getting used to. I can't speak on what was and wasn't in the game that long ago though I barely remember PES 6 lol

I do think that games, not just PES, are bloated and overcomplicated these days. I understand what you mean when you say it's inexcusable. But I understand completely how sports gaming got here.

MyNoFoot said:
I tend not to dribble too much which admittedly will reduce the prevalence. But still there have been opportunities to award penalties. And in games I'm winning comfortably all I do is try and win penalties by dribbling into the box but I just cannot win a penalty.
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Ok I see now. I play like I did in real life so I dribble more than Neymar does haha. I like to draw attention and pick out anyone making a nice run.

MyNoFoot said:
Thanks for the heads up about this. I might edit the AI GK's to make them offensive keepers and hopefully this will improve things.
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Yeah I don't understand how they programmed defensive keepers like that.
 
So, was there a patch as well today? Haven´t played the game in weeks since it became totally useless after the last patch. So if it's only a DLC I won't bother starting it up.
 
i downloaded it and after one game went back to version 1.0. Didn't really feel any different to last patch except i saw three back heels in one game by the AI but that might be a coincidence. It's just too open and end to end for me. Since after the third patch Konami have eroded the midfield battles and AI dribbles - go from one game on new patch to the same game on 1.0 and the difference is immediately noticeable.

Its a pity as 1.0 wasn't my Favorited version although its a lot better than the more recent patches, it was second and third patch that i really liked with real physical battles and AI red cards, i really wish offline we could select which patch we use.
 
hitmanuk said:
i downloaded it and after one game went back to version 1.0. Didn't really feel any different to last patch except i saw three back heels in one game by the AI but that might be a coincidence. It's just too open and end to end for me. Since after the third patch Konami have eroded the midfield battles and AI dribbles - go from one game on new patch to the same game on 1.0 and the difference is immediately noticeable.

Its a pity as 1.0 wasn't my Favorited version although its a lot better than the more recent patches, it was second and third patch that i really liked with real physical battles and AI red cards, i really wish offline we could select which patch we use.
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Hi. Do you mind answering some questions please?

I'm struggling to remember now as is stopped playing 1.0 in november but...

Does 1.0 feel softer and smoother in terms of player animations?

How are the ball physics? More free and loose compared to now (data pack 5) or am I misremembring? (I know that v1.00 to v.1.01, the ball physics became significantly dulled and less free but it's been too long for me to compare them to dp5)

How is the midfield? Is there more resistance in v.1.00?
Am I remembering right that there is more physicality and contact is 1.00?

In terms of attacking variety for your own team, I feel like v1.00 had more but cant remember now...am I right?

Is there a way to go back to v1.00 without deleting my option file which has klashman tactics on it (I say that as the more recent pes universe files dont have his tactics...)

Thanks
 
FShas said:
Hi. Do you mind answering some questions please?

I'm struggling to remember now as is stopped playing 1.0 in november but...

Does 1.0 feel softer and smoother in terms of player animations? - pretty similar animations but feels slightly slower

How are the ball physics? More free and loose compared to now (data pack 5) or am I misremembring? (I know that v1.00 to v.1.01, the ball physics became significantly dulled and less free but it's been too long for me to compare them to dp5) Ball physics are slightly tighter when at feet - i think that leads to a bit more physicality - shot variation feels like more in 1.0

How is the midfield? Is there more resistance in v.1.00? - more in 1.0
Am I remembering right that there is more physicality and contact is 1.00? yes as above i think its down to the ball phyiscs and AI press more

In terms of attacking variety for your own team, I feel like v1.00 had more but cant remember now...am I right? not sure on this will need to test

Is there a way to go back to v1.00 without deleting my option file which has klashman tactics on it (I say that as the more recent pes universe files dont have his tactics...) no back to scratch and you sacrifice option files - at the moment until euros come out then ill stick with 1.0 then try euros and then go back until 2021. I didnt lose much as i only had basic kits in my game and tbh im not that bothered

Thanks
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Thanks Hitman,
, really appreciate it. I'm tempted to go back, I remember it feeling so fresh and dynamic, and the animations seem to 'pace' better in that with dribbling, you could feel each step better. .
 
hitmanuk said:
i downloaded it and after one game went back to version 1.0. Didn't really feel any different to last patch except i saw three back heels in one game by the AI but that might be a coincidence. It's just too open and end to end for me. Since after the third patch Konami have eroded the midfield battles and AI dribbles - go from one game on new patch to the same game on 1.0 and the difference is immediately noticeable.

Its a pity as 1.0 wasn't my Favorited version although its a lot better than the more recent patches, it was second and third patch that i really liked with real physical battles and AI red cards, i really wish offline we could select which patch we use.
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Haven’t touched this game for a long time but if your having end to end matches check the tactics for each team and see if deep defensive line is back in cos that can cos an open midfield for all the teams cos Konami have a really bad habit of disrespecting people that have edited the teams one of the reasons I’m over this game, Konami have zero respect for there fans
 
Jimi_Zuko said:
Haven’t touched this game for a long time but if your having end to end matches check the tactics for each team and see if deep defensive line is back in cos that can cos an open midfield for all the teams cos Konami have a really bad habit of disrespecting people that have edited the teams one of the reasons I’m over this game, Konami have zero respect for there fans
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ive tried every tactic adjustment there is, i find after investing time they are a trade off. less end to end also means static movement upfront in my opinion. I will stay one 1.0 as it feels a nice balance with no edits. AI is threatening but also making mistakes and the variety of attack is more varied than just pass pass pass. There is a bit of dribbling in
 
Stringer said:
I just played my first ever game where the COM team received a red card. This is after installing the Data Pack 6. May just be a coincidence.


I won the game 1-0, by the way (this was on Top Player).
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R this new patch fix broken gameplay from dp5. 0
 
More fouls with last update for me ! 3 matchs (30 min fuma pro) with more physics interactions...last exemple : Juventus vs Porto and 6 whistled faults against ia....and 2 yellow cards....
 
Nope, the game is still horrible (at least online). It was really good online before these 2 last patches. The midfield is non existing again. Oh well...
 
hitmanuk said:
i downloaded it and after one game went back to version 1.0. Didn't really feel any different to last patch except i saw three back heels in one game by the AI but that might be a coincidence. It's just too open and end to end for me. Since after the third patch Konami have eroded the midfield battles and AI dribbles - go from one game on new patch to the same game on 1.0 and the difference is immediately noticeable.

Its a pity as 1.0 wasn't my Favorited version although its a lot better than the more recent patches, it was second and third patch that i really liked with real physical battles and AI red cards, i really wish offline we could select which patch we use.
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I played 5 minutes and put it back on the shelf. Cup matches in ML are a mess and cannot be redeemed. It's a shame that what should be the best of football are so unenjoyable for me in that game.

It's funny you say that because I know you could do that in NHL 14; selecting which patch you can use. Not sure about the more recent ones though.
 
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