gabe.paul.logan
Retired Footballer
Then we can think like only 3 weeks for you basically for the retail game
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eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)
- Thread starter ThomasGOAL
- Start date
- Status
PeterC10
Championship
Minimal at most from my experience so far.
Nah. Once in a blue moon, typical game brainfart. Happens in any video game.
Played good few games just now. Online, on full manual.
And I cant stop wondering - how people play it online with assisted passing?
Dont get me wrong - I had a great time, matches were brilliant, but due to two people playing - there was more pressure, more unpredictability, in general it was more hectic. Even with both of us on full manual, where every pass had to be thought out, aimed and correct power applied, it was still fast. And there was nice build up in all the matches I played, coz you rarely can hammer the ball to your attacker on manual.
I can only imagine the craziness on PA2 or PA3, as even PA1 would probably give me palpitations..
And I cant stop wondering - how people play it online with assisted passing?
Dont get me wrong - I had a great time, matches were brilliant, but due to two people playing - there was more pressure, more unpredictability, in general it was more hectic. Even with both of us on full manual, where every pass had to be thought out, aimed and correct power applied, it was still fast. And there was nice build up in all the matches I played, coz you rarely can hammer the ball to your attacker on manual.
I can only imagine the craziness on PA2 or PA3, as even PA1 would probably give me palpitations..
Probably will get shouted down for this, but my two cents...
Not hugely impressed with it so far. I'm very much a casual gamer these days (and exclusively single player), but I'm pretty much experiencing the same issues I had with the last few versions of PES so I think I'll give this a miss (unless, of course, Konami be Konami and release a full game that bears absolutely no resemblance to the demo...).
I got bored with the last one after about a month, largely down to the awful AI, scripting and general repetitive nature of matches, and I'm still getting a sense of that with this even despite playing only 25 odd matches so far. Just a few of the issues off the top of my head:
- AI seems horribly robotic and predictable. It's hard to put into words, but you can almost tell when the computer is going to score, or intercept a pass, or control a hopeful 70 yard punt up field instantly, or time an inch-perfect tackle when your striker is through on goal - there doesn't seem to be any degree of variety or randomness in the play.
- Attacking headers still seem floaty and unrealistic. In fact I can't really remember scoring a bullet header in the last few versions of PES at all. My biggest gripe is when two players go up for a header and it comes off one head and pops up about three foot above them both to challenge again - honestly, how often do you see that in an actual match?
- Through balls and attacking movement continues to be frustrating. Why run beyond the full back into the massive chasm of space when you can just stand there hugging the defender, thus not giving me an option to pass to? Argh.
- Responsive times I've found to be slow, particularly when switching players and in crucial moments when it's most necessary, for instance goalmouth scrambles.
- Goalkeeper animations are still poor. They're good for shot stopping when it involves palming it away, but the catchng animations (especially that horrible floaty two handed catch animation) largely look really dated and amateurish.
- Rubbish menus with graphics that look about 15 years old, no sense of atmosphere etc, but I've really come to expect that with Konami over the years, so that lessens the blow somewhat.
- All in all, add up the above items and it leads to very few 'wow' moments, if any.
It's not all doom and gloom mind, there are some things that I think have been done well. Match graphics seem to have been improved and player models are excellent (Konami has always done this a thousand times better than EA Sports in my opinion). Players seem a bit weightier and better to control, and I'm quite enjoying the tackling system, especially after the shambles that was the fouling system last year. Although the five minute halves means I'm massively rushing around and conceding loads of fouls mind.
Given the feedback in here so far, I think I'm probably out on my own with these issues. Not hugely enamored with it so far.
Not hugely impressed with it so far. I'm very much a casual gamer these days (and exclusively single player), but I'm pretty much experiencing the same issues I had with the last few versions of PES so I think I'll give this a miss (unless, of course, Konami be Konami and release a full game that bears absolutely no resemblance to the demo...).
I got bored with the last one after about a month, largely down to the awful AI, scripting and general repetitive nature of matches, and I'm still getting a sense of that with this even despite playing only 25 odd matches so far. Just a few of the issues off the top of my head:
- AI seems horribly robotic and predictable. It's hard to put into words, but you can almost tell when the computer is going to score, or intercept a pass, or control a hopeful 70 yard punt up field instantly, or time an inch-perfect tackle when your striker is through on goal - there doesn't seem to be any degree of variety or randomness in the play.
- Attacking headers still seem floaty and unrealistic. In fact I can't really remember scoring a bullet header in the last few versions of PES at all. My biggest gripe is when two players go up for a header and it comes off one head and pops up about three foot above them both to challenge again - honestly, how often do you see that in an actual match?
- Through balls and attacking movement continues to be frustrating. Why run beyond the full back into the massive chasm of space when you can just stand there hugging the defender, thus not giving me an option to pass to? Argh.
- Responsive times I've found to be slow, particularly when switching players and in crucial moments when it's most necessary, for instance goalmouth scrambles.
- Goalkeeper animations are still poor. They're good for shot stopping when it involves palming it away, but the catchng animations (especially that horrible floaty two handed catch animation) largely look really dated and amateurish.
- Rubbish menus with graphics that look about 15 years old, no sense of atmosphere etc, but I've really come to expect that with Konami over the years, so that lessens the blow somewhat.
- All in all, add up the above items and it leads to very few 'wow' moments, if any.
It's not all doom and gloom mind, there are some things that I think have been done well. Match graphics seem to have been improved and player models are excellent (Konami has always done this a thousand times better than EA Sports in my opinion). Players seem a bit weightier and better to control, and I'm quite enjoying the tackling system, especially after the shambles that was the fouling system last year. Although the five minute halves means I'm massively rushing around and conceding loads of fouls mind.
Given the feedback in here so far, I think I'm probably out on my own with these issues. Not hugely enamored with it so far.
- Staff
- #5,377
Nnnggghhhh.
DuduBR9
Champions League
- 25 July 2010
This game online is nowhere near as good as oes 2018 beta was.
Nowhere
Nowhere
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
Kinda feels like we're seeing proof shoved in our face of why these games aren't ready for realistic fouling. So many niggling fouls that would never get called by a real ref are getting called, while still players will sometimes get absolutely pancaked and no call.
Gotta expect this will get toned down for full release you'd think...
talucchesi
League 2
- 2 March 2015
KEEP.THE.FOUL.SYSTEM. I know it's a bit broken, but I'd soooooooo much rather have this than the lack of fouls we've had in both games for years.
I know some people have said the opposite but I still feel like a rarely give up any good goals. Everything feels like my 9 other teammates starring as the winger cuts inside. Trying to make your 9 other teammates seem like they have a brain is cumbersome. I mostly pray my GK can pull off a miraculous save.
But Pes also gives you moments like this. Remember Armani's f'up in Copa America?
I know some people have said the opposite but I still feel like a rarely give up any good goals. Everything feels like my 9 other teammates starring as the winger cuts inside. Trying to make your 9 other teammates seem like they have a brain is cumbersome. I mostly pray my GK can pull off a miraculous save.
But Pes also gives you moments like this. Remember Armani's f'up in Copa America?
OBH
PESadvocate
- 6 March 2019
- Team
- Tottenham
No, doesn't concern me in the slightest to be honest.
If there were many instances of people reporting this then for sure, I'd be concerned, but considering the hours already put into it and this is the first time? What's to worry about? It's clearly the exception and not the rule.
Plus his right foot is still moving towards the ball, I can't tell if it touches it or not.
DuduBR9
Champions League
- 25 July 2010
Online is a joke.
Pes 2018 beta iis a Million times better.
Gameplay online still os quite fast.
Its ridiculous How absurdo quicky players close You down. It doesnt matter If its a harder to disposses when players can close down in light Speed.
The game does not estimulate football consciousness like pes 2018 beta, in wich You can punish this mindless pressure exploring spaces.
Pes 2018 beta iis a Million times better.
Gameplay online still os quite fast.
Its ridiculous How absurdo quicky players close You down. It doesnt matter If its a harder to disposses when players can close down in light Speed.
The game does not estimulate football consciousness like pes 2018 beta, in wich You can punish this mindless pressure exploring spaces.
bromi
Premier League
- 1 November 2014
Impressions after about 20 matches (on pc, 10 minutes games)
They have improved almost everything from previous years
- camera: finally!! the new one you can finally tweak it to play with a real wide angle gameplay (when tweaked it is similar to fifa's coop camera)
- Graphics better and game running better on pc
- Animations much improved, smoother and some added, generally more realistic; also GK's animations are better (last years really sucked). Also you can telle the difference between players
- Cpuai: tactics are not that great yet, but better than last year and a little less predictable. What is MUCH improved are single cpu players finally dribbling and shooting from outside the box
- Dribbling management for user is much improved and you feel you can control them better; yet not easy as fifa fortunately, good balance
- Physics MUCH improved for ball moving, ball handling, shooting, passing, air movements, players' physics great: you can feel the difference between big and heavy guys and small and agile players
- Responsiveness is almost perfect: not super reactive neither too slow. Also pace is great even at 0; (I like it even better at -1)
- Shooting is better: now you have more satisfaction when you score. Also manual shooting have more control. Advanced shooting still the same, maybe much better handling but still unintuitive commands.
- Fouls calls are sometimes annoying but still better than the horrible system of last year
- I personally dont' find cpu so passive: In fact I would like it to remain this way: no scripting and no boosting
- Midfield improved, thicker, still sometimes too open but much better than the crap of 2018 and 2019. Also I haven't yet seen the cpu using the all defense tactic everytime they score and even when they use it (the one with the blue tag) don't run everybody immediately in their midfiled, they keep pressuring, at least the player who has possession of the ball
- better protection of the ball, making a better paced game
- randomness: finally we have some, also mistakes, misplaced passes and trapping
- Crosses: they are better, more logic, even with no passing assists
- Balancing difficulty: after trying lots of combinations I found a sweet spot with 1 bar assist passing and playing at superstar.
I hope they do NOT make the cpu more rampant in the final game, especially in competition, using scripts and boosts.
It's ok like this: sometimes when your players are low form it's mroe diffcult, sometimes easier; cpu doesn't build up that much and make not great possession, but still it's decent, definetely better than making it more aggressive using hideous scripting
What is annoying still:
- cpuai tactics should be more differentiated; playing small teams vs big teams you don't see that much difference in cpu behaviour
- shooting: i was disappointed not to see the x+y low ground shoot restored as it was in 2015 (I still wonder why they removed it). I wonder why in 2020 you cannot choose to shoot a low ground shot. You can do it only with advanced shooting, which, unfortunately, as the same crappy counter intuitive system
- cpuai defense still too perfect in their own area: never a mistake, never a foul; header high balls 95% of the times in defenders head. Still no penalties in 20 games, very few free kicks from just outside the box
- Difficulty balance: I found a balance for now, but they maybe should put more levels: maybe letting you choose also attack and defence level of cpu
- headers: still sloppy sometimes
- Atmosphere: slightly better, but those fan flags and banners are still horrid, chants suck
- On pc still have little white border playing with custom resolution (don't know how to get rid of it)
They have improved almost everything from previous years
- camera: finally!! the new one you can finally tweak it to play with a real wide angle gameplay (when tweaked it is similar to fifa's coop camera)
- Graphics better and game running better on pc
- Animations much improved, smoother and some added, generally more realistic; also GK's animations are better (last years really sucked). Also you can telle the difference between players
- Cpuai: tactics are not that great yet, but better than last year and a little less predictable. What is MUCH improved are single cpu players finally dribbling and shooting from outside the box
- Dribbling management for user is much improved and you feel you can control them better; yet not easy as fifa fortunately, good balance
- Physics MUCH improved for ball moving, ball handling, shooting, passing, air movements, players' physics great: you can feel the difference between big and heavy guys and small and agile players
- Responsiveness is almost perfect: not super reactive neither too slow. Also pace is great even at 0; (I like it even better at -1)
- Shooting is better: now you have more satisfaction when you score. Also manual shooting have more control. Advanced shooting still the same, maybe much better handling but still unintuitive commands.
- Fouls calls are sometimes annoying but still better than the horrible system of last year
- I personally dont' find cpu so passive: In fact I would like it to remain this way: no scripting and no boosting
- Midfield improved, thicker, still sometimes too open but much better than the crap of 2018 and 2019. Also I haven't yet seen the cpu using the all defense tactic everytime they score and even when they use it (the one with the blue tag) don't run everybody immediately in their midfiled, they keep pressuring, at least the player who has possession of the ball
- better protection of the ball, making a better paced game
- randomness: finally we have some, also mistakes, misplaced passes and trapping
- Crosses: they are better, more logic, even with no passing assists
- Balancing difficulty: after trying lots of combinations I found a sweet spot with 1 bar assist passing and playing at superstar.
I hope they do NOT make the cpu more rampant in the final game, especially in competition, using scripts and boosts.
It's ok like this: sometimes when your players are low form it's mroe diffcult, sometimes easier; cpu doesn't build up that much and make not great possession, but still it's decent, definetely better than making it more aggressive using hideous scripting
What is annoying still:
- cpuai tactics should be more differentiated; playing small teams vs big teams you don't see that much difference in cpu behaviour
- shooting: i was disappointed not to see the x+y low ground shoot restored as it was in 2015 (I still wonder why they removed it). I wonder why in 2020 you cannot choose to shoot a low ground shot. You can do it only with advanced shooting, which, unfortunately, as the same crappy counter intuitive system
- cpuai defense still too perfect in their own area: never a mistake, never a foul; header high balls 95% of the times in defenders head. Still no penalties in 20 games, very few free kicks from just outside the box
- Difficulty balance: I found a balance for now, but they maybe should put more levels: maybe letting you choose also attack and defence level of cpu
- headers: still sloppy sometimes
- Atmosphere: slightly better, but those fan flags and banners are still horrid, chants suck
- On pc still have little white border playing with custom resolution (don't know how to get rid of it)
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
Single player, keeping the foul system as is might be okay, but this will never fly for competitive h2h matches.
103SpooKy
Die hard Arjen Robben fan
- 27 July 2006
Agreed with this after 20 hours of playtime. This is where it should be and I absolutely adore the fouling system. And I had just one arm in the face foul yet. Against someone with Gamesmanship (malicia) obviously
Evil Star
Hiro Protagonist
Stat-wise Vasco have a truly appalling team in the demo this year, their main CF is rated at only 66 and when I looked through the rest of the squad they don't seem to even have another striker to substitute in
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Both of them are fouls, imo. First one was late and kicked his foot. The 2nd is dangerous play.
ninety3twenty
League 1
- 10 August 2018
I’m not so sure myself.
Will definitely need longer with it.
I thought they had but they still haven’t fixed the R2 right stick to make a team mate sprint. Works when it feels like it and you still can’t slide tackle when you like. Seems as when the ball is close to a CPU player but not under their control, I press slide and it doesn’t slide for a 30-70
If online is also regional locked as in you have to have a UK one to play co op with friends in the UK then I’m out. Pes 5 and fifa 16 as I can’t imagine EA producing anything I can rely on either.
*actually, the slide tackle issue is when the balls in the air, so if it’s dropping, you can’t time a crunching slide tackle.
Will definitely need longer with it.
I thought they had but they still haven’t fixed the R2 right stick to make a team mate sprint. Works when it feels like it and you still can’t slide tackle when you like. Seems as when the ball is close to a CPU player but not under their control, I press slide and it doesn’t slide for a 30-70
If online is also regional locked as in you have to have a UK one to play co op with friends in the UK then I’m out. Pes 5 and fifa 16 as I can’t imagine EA producing anything I can rely on either.
*actually, the slide tackle issue is when the balls in the air, so if it’s dropping, you can’t time a crunching slide tackle.
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MKC
Garra! Força! Tradição!
I think Konami should add some sort of referee slider, like, when the final version comes out, instead of replacing the demo's strict ref with a zero fouls one, give us an option to have the demo one, while also having the option of the zero fouls one from previous years, maybe even a few extra ones, like a ridiculously strict one that blows the whistle for anything, or one that absolutely never does. Have the zero fouls ref be the default for Online, with some competitions having different refs to change things up maybe, while giving a free option for Offline, no need to satisfy one crown in detriment of the other.
DuduBR9
Champions League
- 25 July 2010
This game HAD so much potential.
Pretty Sad.
Yes, Im already saying that even tho the game is not even released.
I can see First time passes going astray more. Passing ia definetly not ridiculous accurate everytime, theres some good contextual errors for first time passes and backheels at least.
But this game is game is teaching me that this is nowhere near enough.
Defending is easily the most importante aspect to make a football game having a more sim aproach, and this game is far from aproaching that.
I suspect that the off the ball sprinting movement is what plays a huge role here. Toning down acceleration and adding more inertia when sprinting without the ball could have a great impact.
Im not sure If that is the thing that would make the big difference in a positive manner, I Just wish that whatever they did with Pés 2018 beta It should never be. changed
I could slay noobs on PES 2018 beta and make them my bitch but just watching their desperate, non Sense way of stealing the ball leaving só much space so I could place the ball into space, sometimes making long grounded passing with manual modefier through the wings whenI was on a counter. It was a football experience that made me easily expose How non Sense people usually play online. Its no difference than putting your nephews of 5 or 6 yo kids to play football together at the yard. They Will ALL runningbe like Crazy to steal the ball beacuse positioning is non existent to them, it hás no relevance. They dont have football consciousness and thats Fine. But not Fine on a video game that has a wider audiance wich includes adults like us. Logic should be prevelant here always
You know You are playing a game more dedicated to people who hás no football consciousness when its ok to hold square Button even when that means taking the last man (defender, Pique lets say) and advance him him forward when theres no need to, as cdm's still right there to block you to get in the big área, and Pes 2020 is Just like this.
I really appriciate the improvement on body physical contact, but the way every single player can so successfully protect the ball is not the way to Go to make stealing the ball a more challenging action. Players in real life are not tanks and can not keep that much balance and ball Control, specially in morden day football where players throw themselves on the floor ar any small contacto to índice fouls calling.
Pretty Sad.
Yes, Im already saying that even tho the game is not even released.
I can see First time passes going astray more. Passing ia definetly not ridiculous accurate everytime, theres some good contextual errors for first time passes and backheels at least.
But this game is game is teaching me that this is nowhere near enough.
Defending is easily the most importante aspect to make a football game having a more sim aproach, and this game is far from aproaching that.
I suspect that the off the ball sprinting movement is what plays a huge role here. Toning down acceleration and adding more inertia when sprinting without the ball could have a great impact.
Im not sure If that is the thing that would make the big difference in a positive manner, I Just wish that whatever they did with Pés 2018 beta It should never be. changed
I could slay noobs on PES 2018 beta and make them my bitch but just watching their desperate, non Sense way of stealing the ball leaving só much space so I could place the ball into space, sometimes making long grounded passing with manual modefier through the wings whenI was on a counter. It was a football experience that made me easily expose How non Sense people usually play online. Its no difference than putting your nephews of 5 or 6 yo kids to play football together at the yard. They Will ALL runningbe like Crazy to steal the ball beacuse positioning is non existent to them, it hás no relevance. They dont have football consciousness and thats Fine. But not Fine on a video game that has a wider audiance wich includes adults like us. Logic should be prevelant here always
You know You are playing a game more dedicated to people who hás no football consciousness when its ok to hold square Button even when that means taking the last man (defender, Pique lets say) and advance him him forward when theres no need to, as cdm's still right there to block you to get in the big área, and Pes 2020 is Just like this.
I really appriciate the improvement on body physical contact, but the way every single player can so successfully protect the ball is not the way to Go to make stealing the ball a more challenging action. Players in real life are not tanks and can not keep that much balance and ball Control, specially in morden day football where players throw themselves on the floor ar any small contacto to índice fouls calling.
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
No way the first one should ever be called a foul. Hell, it's not even a tackling animation but a kicking one and the contact is made after the ball is kicked. The second one, sure, it gets called dangerous play in real life. But dangerous play is WAY too subjective to be included in a game at this point; same as handballs. (Although if you want to get super technical, the defender heads the ball at knee height; that really shouldn't be dangerous play. Regardless, see it's not clear cut.)
Point is, these games aren't advanced enough and we're talking about the hardest part of the game to get right... even in real life... and even with bloody VAR.
To be fair to players on both teams, they ought to have a rule that if you get the ball, there's no foul. Just leave it at that. The tech can barely handle this, let alone the grey areas of subjectivity and intent.
Even in real life, when both go for the ball and one is late and kicks the other, it's a foul.
Don't have an issue with the first one. He gets the ball.. and the man. You see a lot of these given in real football too and you also see a lot of them called for play on.
Lobbedball
League 1
- 14 July 2018
I would agree on the AI with you, but at least there is no.more cheating ai, at least u know which player has the physicality to win the ball, but i have to add, messi needs more physical power added to his stats, in the game on superstar he seems to be losing every 1v1 , it s not realistic, his physical prowess should be increased
bluewomble88
Championship
- 26 September 2010
Downloaded.
Started a match on Superstar difficulty.
After defending a corner, released Monreal on the left wing mid-way inside my own half.
Ran the complete length of the byline as I watched 2 AI defenders constantly back off and 1 of them run away from me to create space.
I turned into space and unleashed a 20 yard arrow into the top corner.
Felt nothing. Actually angry that it looked nothing like real football.
Uninstalled.
Went back to FIFA 16.
Started a match on Superstar difficulty.
After defending a corner, released Monreal on the left wing mid-way inside my own half.
Ran the complete length of the byline as I watched 2 AI defenders constantly back off and 1 of them run away from me to create space.
I turned into space and unleashed a 20 yard arrow into the top corner.
Felt nothing. Actually angry that it looked nothing like real football.
Uninstalled.
Went back to FIFA 16.
nicetoknowyou
League 1
The Fouls are not broken... it is just timing and dont use the "run" button (R1)... If you rush and tackle it is a fault.
So these things - in addition to a vid of a goal scored and the GK moved out of the way of the ball - are those fine detail things that I, personally, would have expected to have been ironed out. Given the similar appearances between PES 18 and 19, I don't think that'd be a tall expectation.
Is it a limitation of the Fox engine? Is it just that these areas are being ignored?
Not sure but from what I'm seeing/reading if I'm weighing up......."Learn a new control mechanic to play PES 2020" vs "Build on your existing knowledge/play of 2018/19 with a control system that is familiar from 2013 onwards"........the latter option still wins for my personal situation.
Anyway, its just the demo. Perhaps final release will be pristine and I hope the guys who are critiquing the demo's finer aspects will go on to get the game on release as its actually their opinions I find more valuable to my decision-making.
I've played a bit of the demo, but I'm afraid to play more because I don't want to get my hopes up lol
I will say the fouls were annoying on superstar but that's my fault for playing on superstar. Things felt better on top player.
Dribbling felt nice. Felt loose but still reactive. Better than 2019. It feels like they're trying to make game play feel more loose. I like that. Much better than 2018 where everything had laser guided precision.
Fullbacks weren't constantly out of position which was nice to see.
AI still making remarkably dumb passes from time to time which is concerning.
It seems they've attempted to address some my biggest concerns from last year. All you can really ask for tbf.
I will say the fouls were annoying on superstar but that's my fault for playing on superstar. Things felt better on top player.
Dribbling felt nice. Felt loose but still reactive. Better than 2019. It feels like they're trying to make game play feel more loose. I like that. Much better than 2018 where everything had laser guided precision.
Fullbacks weren't constantly out of position which was nice to see.
AI still making remarkably dumb passes from time to time which is concerning.
It seems they've attempted to address some my biggest concerns from last year. All you can really ask for tbf.
Player switching logic has been hilariously bad for years in PES. That's nothing new.
Playing BAL or anything mode with fixed cursor, I have to forcibly tell my teammates to engage wingers charging down the sideline with the ball instead of running away from them.
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