eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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CalcioCalabrese said:
Much prefer it as is than playing FIFA 19 where guys just sprint into you and take the ball without even pressing a tackle button or smash you off the ball and it's play on.
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100% agree.
You don’t even need to do the tackling animation, you simple run into them.

Out of all my pet hates playing Fifa this was the worst (mainly because I’m shit at tackling in this manner...) but my god it just looks pathetic.
 
fregen said:
Feck those guys, I have no idea who they are but are there some of them who has slated it already?
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You don't get to say "feck them" for having an opinion different to yours. Be careful.

OBH said:
Just reading everyone’s comments on the fouls should be enough to tell anyone the getting fouls 100% correct is IMPOSSIBLE. If people can’t even agree on what a foul is in real life how do you expect them to implement them perfectly in a game!?
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Here's the thing. I've seen 20-odd non-foul videos posted now. A few of them I've posted. The people I've seen say "that's a foul", have said that about literally every single fucking one. So in my eyes, and I'm sorry but there's no polite way to say this, they're putting their hands over their eyes and going "LALALALA NOT HAPPENING", because they're so desperate for "realism" they'll take a game that's broken in the opposite way to before, but still broken.

But being awarded the same amount of free kicks as a 90 minute game in what will be a 10-15 minute match isn't realism, in my opinion. (Especially when, as I say, the reasons they're given, aren't fouls!)

OBH said:
Just let go of sprint when you tackle and you’ll cut out 90% of fouls, it isn’t hard.
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Nope. 90% is nowhere near true. The two I posted up from my match last night were from the AI for a start, not me.

Is it great to see the AI committing fouls? No, because they're not - they're not committing errors of judgement and taking my player(s) out. The collision system is just terrible. They're NOT fouling me.

"I've watched them and they're fouls"? Well, I give up now. It seems impossible to discuss, even with evidence and with two fouls per game being dodgy (which will be how many in a "full match").

Simcut said:
Are we complaining about the fouls more because the advantage rule isnt working properly?
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Nope. Complaining about perfectly good tackles (in one case last night for me, a diving header) being ruled as fouls... Advantage wouldn't change this.
 
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Chris Davies said:
"I've watched them and they're fouls"? Well, I give up now. It seems impossible to discuss, even with evidence and with two fouls per game being dodgy (which will be how many in a "full match").
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Sorry but I have to agree with Lami, the first one was ball first but also some foot on foot. Referees make that call quite a bit because they're unsighted, or just don't like the follow through. If every time it happened it was called a foul, it's probably not right, but to use one of those examples and say it's broken, I'm not so sure. The second foul looked reasonable too - the guy kicking near someone's head?? How is that not a foul?
 
FarStranger said:
I bet everyone five bucks that the foul system is getting nerfed thanks to everybody complaining on Twitter.
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I see your five bucks and raise it to a 100 bucks and that they'll do just that. Nerf the fouls system, fix the "not responsive enough" by cutting frames and make it more arcadish. Oh and also increase the assists level. Yup, we're back to Pes19 boys.
 
Simcut said:
Are we complaining about the fouls more because the advantage rule isnt working properly? It would be nowhere near as annoying if the ref would play the advantage and you continue playing, but the play is stopped way too much
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I haven’t played the demo yet, but messing up the advantage rule is something that has been in the game for quite a while. Surely drove me mad in 2019.
 
Outsider_1624 said:
I see your five bucks and raise it to a 100 bucks and that they'll do just that. Nerf the fouls system, fix the "not responsive enough" by cutting frames and make it more arcadish. Oh and also increase the assists level. Yup, we're back to Pes19 boys.
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This, it has been the same way for a couple of years now. What baffles me though is the fact that they keep altering their own vision just because people don't want to learn/ re- learn/ challenge themself/etc, etc, etc. I mean, why even bother to begin with? Why not just release a fast paced, arcadish game from the beginning? I would be so gutted if I had worked on something that I believed in for months and then a 13- year old on Twitter or a guy with a Youtube- channel just could bash that and you had to abandon it instantly.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
The second foul looked reasonable too - the guy kicking near someone's head?? How is that not a foul?
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Shit, I didn't make it clear - that's my fault. It's not the kicker who was adjudged to have fouled there. It's the header. (So maybe, just maybe, you see my point now?! But probably not because it's a "one off" - except it's not, that's the thing, I see these decisions constantly - but... As I say. Just can't seem to get that across.)
 
The second would be 100% dangerous play by the guy diving for the header so low in real life, but to be honest I doubt that's the reason the ref whistle here lol
 
Chris Davies said:
You don't get to say "feck them" for having an opinion different to yours. Be careful.


Here's the thing. I've seen 20-odd non-foul videos posted now. A few of them I've posted. The people I've seen say "that's a foul", have said that about literally every single fucking one. So in my eyes, and I'm sorry but there's no polite way to say this, they're putting their hands over their eyes and going "LALALALA NOT HAPPENING", because they're so desperate for "realism" they'll take a game that's broken in the opposite way to before, but still broken.

But being awarded the same amount of free kicks as a 90 minute game in what will be a 10-15 minute match isn't realism, in my opinion. (Especially when, as I say, the reasons they're given, aren't fouls.)


Nope. 90% is nowhere near true. The two I posted up from my match last night were from the AI for a start, not me.

Is it great to see the AI committing fouls? No, because they're not - they're not committing errors of judgement and taking my player(s) out. The collision system is just terrible. They're NOT fouling me.

"I've watched them and they're fouls"? Well, I give up now. It seems impossible to discuss, even with evidence and with two fouls per game being dodgy (which will be how many in a "full match").


Nope. Complaining about perfectly good tackles (in one case last night for me, a diving header) being ruled as fouls... Advantage wouldn't change this.
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Are you going into replays and dissecting every challenge? Only asking because I have to be honest, in all the games I’ve played so far, yes, of course there are fouls that I don’t agree with, but nothing that’s making me throw my arms in the air in disgust. If I was to go into every replay and view each foul individually I’m sure I’d find loads and loads of problems.

The quote regarding fouls in real life is a perfectly valid one. It doesn’t matter if 100 people on this site agree that it isn’t a foul, because you can bet you could find 200 people elsewhere who say it is.

Ball physics is just maths, and can be represented perfectly as physics has definitive values and rules. You simply cannot do that with fouls because it’s entirely subjective. I’m not saying it’s a non issue, I’m not saying it can’t be better, and I’m certainly not dismissing it. The point is that where textures can be more detailed as technology improves, and physics can become more and more realistic as technology can compute more of the maths, all the technology in the world won’t fix fouls because until we can 100% agree on every single foul, every single time, implementing a flawless system digitally is an absolute impossibility.
 
@Chris Davies

You’re entitled to your opinion of course but may I ask: you really seemed to enjoy Fifa 19 last year and that had ZERO fouls per game (or one if we were lucky). Plus you’re saying this demo is too easy or passive when Fifa 19 was one of the easiest Fifa games v CPU in my memory.

Not trying to turn it into a PES v Fifa debate at all, my point being is that you enjoyed Fifa 19 with those huge flaws but can’t seem to enjoy this? Or am I reading your points incorrectly?

Personally I think the new fouling system has been needed for many years in a footy game we can’t just spam X now. My issue with this game is that scoring goals is still boring.
 
Constantly pressing and running into the ball carrier should be penalised and it generally is now..Personally I’m not having issues where any of my games are stop/start because of a over zealous referee..I’ve absolutely nailed the standing tackle.

Seen plenty of good calls,times where the referee is clearly Playing the advantage and others where it’s clearly a foul but the ref cheekily turns a blind eye..

IMO the issues are more technical.Fine tuning issues that relate to clipping and the collision system not being able at times to differentiate between when the ball is clearly won and when contact is late.
 
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flokiman said:
Here is a video compilation i made showing some of the things that annoy me much

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Be honest now, how much of this do you notice in real time? Because I’ve had to watch some of those clips multiple times to even see what you’re talking about.

Far be it for me to question what anyone else finds annoying, to each their own and everything, but if people are unhappy about these tiny details when there are much, MUCH larger concerns they need addressing first? Well then no wonder so many people are unhappy with football games every year.
 
fregen said:
This, it has been the same way for a couple of years now. What baffles me though is the fact that they keep altering their own vision just because people don't want to learn/ re- learn/ challenge themself/etc, etc, etc. I mean, why even bother to begin with? Why not just release a fast paced, arcadish game from the beginning? I would be so gutted if I had worked on something that I believed in for months and then a 13- year old on Twitter or a guy with a Youtube- channel just could bash that and you had to abandon it instantly.
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Lack of proper leadership in dev team. I mean, before there was Seabass that really was the master of having a vision and following it.

How i wish Pes team director was someone like Miyazaki (Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Sekiro director). He didn't care about people complaining about his games being hardcore. Sekiro was destroyed online because of people complaining the game was too hard or that it offered uncompromised challenge. They didn't release one patch to make it easier, they stayed true to their vision of the game.

Mikhail said:
@Chris Davies

You’re entitled to your opinion of course but may I ask: you really seemed to enjoy Fifa 19 last year and that had ZERO fouls per game (or one if we were lucky). Plus you’re saying this demo is too easy or passive when Fifa 19 was one of the easiest Fifa games v CPU in my memory.

Not trying to turn it into a PES v Fifa debate at all, my point being is that you enjoyed Fifa 19 with those huge flaws but can’t seem to enjoy this? Or am I reading your points incorrectly?
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I feel he is so burnt out about Pes he is not neutral anymore. He went into trying the demo convinced he was going to hate it and with that attitude you can hate eveything, especially this demo that is far from perfect. There are plenty of issues you can focus on, but just focusing on issues and never ever talking about the positives is wrong. That is not a reasonable stance to have.
 
One of the AI's traits I have noticed a lot is a Long Through Ball over the top.... I don't remember Arsenal playing like that? But according to eFootball PES 2020... that is EXACTLY how they play?
 
OBH said:
Be honest now, how much of this do you notice in real time? Because I’ve had to watch some of those clips multiple times to even see what you’re talking about.

Far be it for me to question what anyone else finds annoying, to each their own and everything, but if people are unhappy about these tiny details when there are much, MUCH larger concerns they need addressing first? Well then no wonder so many people are unhappy with football games every year.
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I notice them all the time and for me is killing the whole smoothness. The year is 2020, KONAMI has 30 years experience developing soccer games, but still can not make player model to step correctly on field.
Rush and immature implementation of new feature cause more bugs. Previous versions of pes had a lot less of all these showed in the video.
Konami implemented the free ball, but did nothing to put it together correcty with player models.
It chose the cheap way to snap models on ball no matter how.
 
Mikhail said:
@Chris Davies

You’re entitled to your opinion of course but may I ask: you really seemed to enjoy Fifa 19 last year and that had ZERO fouls per game
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Same argument as "would you rather have no fouls". Would you rather have it broken this way, or that way. I'm sick of seeing this nonsensical argument. My answer would be = both are broken, therefore, I wouldn't pick either.

In-fact, that's my whole point - I feel like the people who are picking one are just picking "new broken" over "old broken" because it makes a change.

It's not a valid question. I don't want there to be no fouls. I also don't want the fouls to be fake fouls. The AI isn't making mistakes when they foul you - the referee is just blowing for things that are, at best (and I say this for the sake of playing devil's advocate), dubious.

Sometimes, a foul is committed by the user because they're just holding X all the time. Great. Except, what you're seeing on the screen is usually (in my experience) your player NOT committing a foul, conceding a foul. Punish me for being lazy, DO IT! BUT not by making the referee blow for things that aren't fouls (at least, not so often).

I'm also sick of seeing "the final game's going to have no fouls now thanks to these people". These people reporting a genuine issue, that they're reporting with evidence (which you may or may not agree with - but the point is, it's being backed up by videos of their findings, not just spouted about vaguely).

They've made heavy tweaks to the collision system that heavily favour the attacker (I've seen dribblers ghosting through players' bodies), which is why (I think) fouls are so prevalent now. To balance it. Which, in my opinion, is two broken things evening themselves out into one broken scenario, which I can't accept, but clearly others can and/or don't see it the same way.

Anyway, point being - these are big changes that affect the collision system. They can't just roll this stuff back easily, I'm pretty sure about that.

In other words, this:

DigitalByDesign said:
IMO the issues are more technical.Fine tuning issues that relate to clipping and the collision system and not being unable at times to differentiate between when the ball is clearly won and when contact is late.
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But I don't think it can be "fine-tuned". It's not going to change by release.

ionutt said:
Football games are not played on replays. In real time you dont observe those glitches so let’s move on.
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You literally have to see them happen in real-time to then go "that clearly wasn't a foul" and then watch a replay to confirm your suspicions.
 
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Chris Davies said:
Same argument as "would you rather have no fouls". I'm sick of seeing this - and I'm also sick of seeing "the final game's going to have no fouls now thanks to these people". These people reporting a genuine issue, that they're reporting with evidence (which you may or may not agree with - but the point is, it's being backed up by videos of their findings, not just spouted about vaguely).

It's not a valid question. I don't want there to be no fouls. I also don't want the fouls to be fake fouls. The AI isn't making mistakes when they foul you - the referee is just blowing for things that are, at best (and I say this for the sake of playing devil's advocate), dubious.

Sometimes, a foul is committed by the user because they're just holding X all the time. Great. Except, what you're seeing on the screen is usually (in my experience) your player NOT committing a foul, conceding a foul. Punish me for being lazy, DO IT! BUT not by making the referee blow for things that aren't fouls (at least, not so often).

The other thing is, I don't think anyone has to worry about this changing in the final game. They've made heavy tweaks to the collision system that heavily favour the attacker (I've seen dribblers ghosting through players' bodies), which is why (I think) fouls are so prevalent now. To balance it. Which, in my opinion, is two broken things evening themselves out into one broken scenario, which I can't accept, but clearly others can and/or don't see it the same way.

Anyway, point being - these are big changes that affect the collision system. They can't just roll this stuff back easily, I'm pretty sure about that.

In other words, this:



But I don't think it can be "fine-tuned". It's not going to change by release.
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I have seen so many dodgy fouls its unreal and when you see the replay "When it shows you it.." I end up wondering why the hell has a free kick been given?

I agree with CD, Its not a quick and easy fix as you either make it less sensitive which means virtually no fouls even when blatant ones have been committed (which I saw a LOT in PES 2019), Or we have too many BS fouls like we have got now.
 
Cro_Cop said:
Look at this, fantastic video.
Shows AI variation in attacks, watched most of it and it's definitely good and much better than last Pes 19.
100 attacks from AI!
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Outstanding! Couldn't watch it all but it's great to see most of those compared with the mono dimension of 2019. If (and it's a big if) they tie a bit the game and don't mess up the good, this year is gonna be so good.
 
My view on the fouling system.

Too often, well a few times in every 5 minute game, I’ve said “what was that for”. Watched replay and still not been convinced, not sure it’s a good thing.

I like fouls, debatable decisions. But I’m not convinced about it currently, also I don’t want it to go back to zero fouls. There is a middle ground, a sensible middle ground that we could maybe get to. It doesn’t have to be too many fouls or none at all.

Fuck me that all sounds like the pass assist argument doesn’t it.. maybe that cold be the next tagline. eFootball PES2021 - all or nothing.
 
Going into another long break because it's tiring to read some posts. I feel like some are trying to shape a narrative that everything in Pes is wrong and trying to convince others to follow them.

It's the hate train. I don't like hype trains, but hate trains are even worse.
 
robbieryan said:
so this is great, except for this is the AIs current go to attack, find direct passes through the middle to the forward who will ping a shot in first time :BRICK:
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What do you mean? 15-20 games that I've played, not once have i come across like this by the ai. I've had the ai dribbled past me, cross, through pass etc.
For once we have the ai actually attack in different ways and we're still complaining.
 
Outsider_1624 said:
What do you mean? 15-20 games that I've played, not once have i come across like this by the ai. I've had the ai dribbled past me, cross, through pass etc.
For once we the ai actually attack in different ways and we're still complaining.
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Me neither, i was the biggest critic of 19 AI attack and love the variation of PES 2017. This is as good if not better than 2017. Great variation in AI attack and certainly not one dimensional
 
Outsider_1624 said:
What do you mean? 15-20 games that I've played, not once have i come across like this by the ai. I've had the ai dribbled past me, cross, through pass etc.
For once we have the ai actually attack in different ways and we're still complaining.
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I agree the AI are much better and natural, but for me they go direct through the middle quite often
 
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