eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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Ameppe said:
I feel like some are trying to shape a narrative that everything in Pes is wrong and trying to convince others to follow them.

It's the hate train. I don't like hype trains, but hate trains are even worse.
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It is incredibly dangerous to present someone's genuine, evidenced view of something as "hate". Taking constructive, evidenced criticism as "hate" says to me you don't know how a debate works. There is no hate involved here.

In the same way I'm getting pretty worried about certain people on Twitter (and on here) saying "if they take fouls out of the full release I'm going to be furious with these guys", like it's a video uploader's fault that they have a problem with something that they're trying to help demonstrate.

Either way, see you soon, I guess?

robbieryan said:
I agree the AI are much better and natural, but for me they go direct through the middle quite often
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Just so you know, you're not alone in thinking this - the first day I played the demo I felt the AI consistently just passed forward in straight lines to reach the striker ASAP on Superstar:

Chris Davies said:
When I switched to a standard sideline camera, you see how straight-forwards AI passes are (no build-up)
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4 days in and it’s a day one buy for me..Unless they balls it up wholesale come release.

Just hits my spot and for me pa0 is just how I want my passing to feel.

I don’t think I’ve ever enjoyed slowing down or looking at a football game so much since the days of ISS/PES on the ps2.

It’s quality transcends graphics and animation though,as there’s a really good game here under the hood.
 
Madmac79 said:
Outstanding! Couldn't watch it all but it's great to see most of those compared with the mono dimension of 2019. If (and it's a big if) they tie a bit the game and don't mess up the good, this year is gonna be so good.
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Yeah! If I think about it, I don't think I saw a backheel even once..also first touch passes aren't present here, There's much more dribbling and players holding the ball longer which was missing before.
 
Chris Davies said:
Just so you know, you're not alone in thinking this - the first day I played the demo I felt the AI consistently just passed forward in straight lines to reach the striker ASAP on Superstar:
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My guess is that it probably depends on who you are playing against as the team styles probably dictate a lot. it's like how some people say games are always end to end and some are just the AI retreating and going all out defence.

for what it's worth, in this game there's definitely a lot less of that and the AI are far better, i'm just not sure how they would look long term in a master league scenario, especially with team spirit on top of that.
 
robbieryan said:
My guess is that it probably depends on who you are playing against as the team styles probably dictate a lot. it's like how some people say games are always end to end and some are just the AI retreating and going all out defence.
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I've seen it most often from Barca when I'm playing as the poorest teams, which worries me. That's not how Barca play. BUT, maybe they're playing like that because I'm playing as the poorer team and they just want to get up the field and score, because they think it'll be easy (which would be great, if they scored a ton against me, but I've not had that yet).

All depends on A) what the Master League does to AI, and B) what Legend difficulty is like.
 
Chris Davies said:
In the same way I'm getting pretty worried about certain people on Twitter (and on here) saying "if they take fouls out of the full release I'm going to be furious with these guys", like it's a video uploader's fault that they have a problem with something that they're trying to help evidence.

:
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It’s kind of like going to a gentleman’s club (or ladies club - it’s 2019 after all) you’re enjoying the dancers and the show but you notice one of the girls is actually a collection of ducks wrapped in a dress.

You say.. “but it’s just ducks” and everybody tells you to ignore it..

“But ducks... that can’t be right”

Then the guy next to you says “don’t mention the ducks, because if they fix the ducks we’ll lose all the dancers completely”

“But.... why will we?”

“I will be furious if you mention the duck situation and we lose these other dancers, you will be the one to blame!”



You don’t need dancing ducks in a football game is the point I’m trying to make. The feet aren’t geared towards it.

Anyway I’m generally quite positive on the demo, played two game in a row yesterday. That means it’s twice as good as PES19 for me (although under that logic, 10 times worse than PES13 - damn... ok ignore my logic)
 
flokiman said:
Here is a video compilation i made showing some of the things that annoy me much

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This was my main issue with 2019. I couldn’t feel the great on the ball felling everyone posted, cause of this snapping.
I told many times how pes2018 had nailed this feature, footplanting and animations transitions. Like the video I made below, which is not even representative of pes2018 ball and player smooth bending.
 
robbieryan said:
I agree the AI are much better and natural, but for me they go direct through the middle quite often
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Yeah, you're right, i do see the ai being direct. I agree. Infact I haven't seen them switch sides, pass back again if I'm pressuring them. I guess I've been playing too much of pes19 that even the slightest variation in the ai pes20 had me say "oh wow that would never happen in previous pes." Lol.

On the subject of fouls, i do hope Konami don't remove the fouls frequency but atleast polish it maybe the collision system too. Hell if not atleast increase the foul frequency committed by the ai also. I've had fouls called on me but the ai goes scott free if he does a similar foul. That's my only issue.
 
Chris Davies said:
I feel it's incredibly dangerous to present someone's genuine, evidenced view of something as "hate".
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Hating everything about a game without trying to look objectively at it is being a hater. I don't even understand why are you still here discussing Pes if you see everything in it as bad. Especially when others have noted too you tend to dismiss every single issue Fifa has as minor.

It's ok, you don't like Pes anymore, you like Fifa. If i hated Pes so much that everything i see in it makes me angry or frustrated i wouldn't play or discuss about it at all.

Your feedback is not useful anymore, because it's not coming from someone evaluating both the good and the bad the game has to offer. I mean, even when there are improvements you don't notice them because to you everything in modern days Pes is wrong.

How can it be a constructive feedback? How can it be useful for Konami, or Adam, or anyone trying to understand what is community thinking about this demo? If i was a Fifa fan tired of playing Fifa and wanting to give Pes a try just by reading your opinions i would think that this demo is trash. But it's far from it.
 
DigitalByDesign said:
4 days in and it’s a day one buy for me..Unless they balls it up wholesale come release.

Just hits my spot and for me pa0 is just how I want my passing to feel.

I don’t think I’ve ever enjoyed slowing down or looking at a football game so much since the days of ISS/PES on the ps2.

It’s quality transcends graphics and animation though,as there’s a really good game here under the hood.
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Completely agree. That's the first demo in this whole gen that makes me actually feel like this.

A random example about "small" things:


Difficult first touch by my player, then I tried a random long shoot (on basic, eh) and it went, well, you see.

I missed so much stuff like that.
 
flokiman said:
I notice them all the time and for me is killing the whole smoothness. The year is 2020, KONAMI has 30 years experience developing soccer games, but still can not make player model to step correctly on field.
Rush and immature implementation of new feature cause more bugs. Previous versions of pes had a lot less of all these showed in the video.
Konami implemented the free ball, but did nothing to put it together correcty with player models.
It chose the cheap way to snap models on ball no matter how.
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To be fair you cant say developers have had 30 to get this right. 30 years ago the players feet were blocky and pixelated, there were probably 4 directions you could turn in.

Given development time pressures to release every year, there have to be trade-offs. Also I am with the other guy who said even from looking at your video some of the issues you highlight are minimal.

Shame if it breaks the game for you but it aint gonna change as the whole cycle will start again when new hardware and engine API comes out for them to start over.
 
Hmm, still unbeaten online with PA1 (Boca ftw!), I didn't stand a chance against ANYONE on PES 19 with PA1. It's funny seeing people struggle with it though, trying to do the stuff they could in 19.
 
Ameppe said:
Hating everything about a game without trying to look objectively at it is being a hater. I don't even understand why are you still here discussing Pes if you see everything in it as bad. Especially when others have noted too you tend to dismiss every single issue Fifa has as minor.
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I literally posted yesterday that all my hope for FIFA 20 was pretty much dismissed by a gameplay video. In-fact, I took a photo of a copy of FIFA 16 that I bought in desperation, and I don't like it (but thankfully it only cost £1).

Also, I've started recording The Evo-Web Interviews where all I talk about is PES. Also, I've got a Master League going in 2019 that I'm enjoying, which I mentioned in an earlier post.

Posting videos of something you find "off" does not equate to hate. I even said on Twitter yesterday, "learning not to pass like a dick will take some time" and "there's lots to learn":


Hate isn't involved. Labelling critique as hate is incredibly dangerous.
 
Chris Davies said:
Same argument as "would you rather have no fouls". Would you rather have it broken this way, or that way. I'm sick of seeing this nonsensical argument. My answer would be = both are broken, therefore, I wouldn't pick either.

In-fact, that's my whole point - I feel like the people who are picking one are just picking "new broken" over "old broken" because it makes a change.

It's not a valid question. I don't want there to be no fouls. I also don't want the fouls to be fake fouls. The AI isn't making mistakes when they foul you - the referee is just blowing for things that are, at best (and I say this for the sake of playing devil's advocate), dubious.

Sometimes, a foul is committed by the user because they're just holding X all the time. Great. Except, what you're seeing on the screen is usually (in my experience) your player NOT committing a foul, conceding a foul. Punish me for being lazy, DO IT! BUT not by making the referee blow for things that aren't fouls (at least, not so often).

I'm also sick of seeing "the final game's going to have no fouls now thanks to these people". These people reporting a genuine issue, that they're reporting with evidence (which you may or may not agree with - but the point is, it's being backed up by videos of their findings, not just spouted about vaguely).

They've made heavy tweaks to the collision system that heavily favour the attacker (I've seen dribblers ghosting through players' bodies), which is why (I think) fouls are so prevalent now. To balance it. Which, in my opinion, is two broken things evening themselves out into one broken scenario, which I can't accept, but clearly others can and/or don't see it the same way.

Anyway, point being - these are big changes that affect the collision system. They can't just roll this stuff back easily, I'm pretty sure about that.

In other words, this:



But I don't think it can be "fine-tuned". It's not going to change by release.


You literally have to see them happen in real-time to then go "that clearly wasn't a foul" and then watch a replay to confirm your suspicions.
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But you were fine with FIFA 19 having zero fouls when that was also an immersion killer - that was my point.
 
Chris Davies said:
It is incredibly dangerous to present someone's genuine, evidenced view of something as "hate". Taking constructive, evidenced criticism as "hate" says to me you don't know how a debate works. There is no hate involved here.

In the same way I'm getting pretty worried about certain people on Twitter (and on here) saying "if they take fouls out of the full release I'm going to be furious with these guys", like it's a video uploader's fault that they have a problem with something that they're trying to help demonstrate.

Either way, see you soon, I guess?


Just so you know, you're not alone in thinking this - the first day I played the demo I felt the AI consistently just passed forward in straight lines to reach the striker ASAP on Superstar:
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Regarding the fouls Chris, I think this is a core issue since 2017 ,where there were some very late collision detections and some fouls called in dead time, or after two or three in-game minutes have past. And most times it was a wrong call. It was very present in 17 and less in 19. Possibly it is an inner slider they tune in their current code. Only in 18 it was not present cause they somehow removed all body collisions and physicality.

Sorry for the past mentions, but I haven’t still played pes2020 demo. I am only watching everyone’s videos and posts.
 
slamsoze said:
Regarding the fouls Chris, I think this is a core issue since 2017 ,where there were some very late collision detections and some fouls called in dead time, or after two or three in-game minutes have past. And most times it was a wrong call. It was very present in 17 and less in 19. Possibly it is an inner slider they tune in their current code. Only in 18 it was not present cause they somehow removed all body collisions and physicality.

Sorry for the past mentions, but I haven’t still played pes2020 demo. I am only watching everyone’s videos and posts.
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I got NO penalties whatsoever in about 50 - 60 matches on PES 2019... it was a JOKE as I had a lot of times where my attacker would get tripped in the CPU's Penalty box and I would get NOTHING.
 
Chris Davies said:
Shit, I didn't make it clear - that's my fault. It's not the kicker who was adjudged to have fouled there. It's the header. (So maybe, just maybe, you see my point now?! But probably not because it's a "one off" - except it's not, that's the thing, I see these decisions constantly - but... As I say. Just can't seem to get that across.)
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Do referees get the decisions right all the time irl, or do they get many wrong? Do you want realism with referee's decisions?
 
Apologies for asking again, but does anyone know the upcoming dates of the PES South American Tour, seeing as they have already been to Brazil and announced the Serie B license, I wanted to know when they will be in Argentina etc, I could've sworn I saw the image of South America with the dates of the tour on it here, but I cannot find it now (searched on the forum at length)

@Chris Davies have you tried getting TTB on the podcast? would be excellent!!
 
Mikhail said:
But you were fine with FIFA 19 having zero fouls when that was also an immersion killer - that was my point.
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Because nothing made me feel cheated and the game flowed, so initially you don't notice it. But eventually you know the free kicks aren't there and you can't enjoy it any longer (there are much bigger gameplay issues, but this isn't the thread for it). I see your point, though. Sorry if I snapped.

slamsoze said:
Regarding the fouls Chris, I think this is a core issue since 2017 ,where there were some very late collision detections and some fouls called in dead time, or after two or three in-game minutes have past. And most times it was a wrong call. It was very present in 17 and less in 19. Possibly it is an inner slider they tune in their current code. Only in 18 it was not present cause they somehow removed all body collisions and physicality.
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Yes! This is something I was thinking about last night. Great point. I'm playing a 2019 Master League at the minute and I do see fouls - not many, but some - and a decent percentage are similarly dodgy (i.e. not fouls). So what's with the big increase? The collision system has been tweaked to cater for the new dribbling system. That's the cause of it, I think.

That's why I say, to anybody who loves all the fouls and sees no problem - you have nothing to worry about. I really don't think there's a way they can tweak this, without essentially removing the new dribbling system. And they're not going to do that.
 
Mikhail said:
@Chris Davies
My issue with this game is that scoring goals is still boring.
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I agree and I think I know partly why. There isn't enough action on the ball when you shoot. Shots are 90% of the time hard and straight, no variety in shot animations etc. So feels samey and meh. Your shooting feels better when not running but still meh, same with tackling, that improves when not running too.
 
Pagi84 said:
I agree and I think I know partly why. There isn't enough action on the ball when you shoot. Shots are 90% of the time hard and straight, no variety in shot animations etc. So feels samey and meh. Your shooting feels better when not running but still meh, same with tackling, that improves when not running too.
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That’s a good point actually didn’t think of that!

@Chris Davies It’s cool no hard feelings.
 
TroyDeeneyScoredAPenal! said:
I got NO penalties whatsoever in about 50 - 60 matches on PES 2019... it was a JOKE as I had a lot of times where my attacker would get tripped in the CPU's Penalty box and I would get NOTHING.
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Yes I do not disagree. The problem about pens was cause of cheating ref AI in 2019.
What the videos showed and what I describe is different, like when your defender clears the ball, the CPU attacker crashes on you and instead of offensive foul it is called a defensive foul.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
I like the contextual shooting, nice turn in the right direction but anyone seen very wayward shots?
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By us or the AI?

slamsoze said:
I haven’t still played pes2020 demo. I am only watching everyone’s videos and posts.
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