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eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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Isaac Ens said:
As someone who still plays both FIFA and PES a lot of the criticism of the game on here has me lost for words. Yes PES has its flaws but in comparison to Fifa (its only serious competitor) there is simply NO CONTEST between the two games. Konami are miles ahead in almost every department especially gameplay wise ( excluding online of course).

It seems as though most here are beginning to (& honestly have been doing so for a while) take for granted just how good a football game PES is and that (whether they want to admit it or not) PES 2020 looks like an improvement on 19.
The gameplay on Fifa 19 (the supposed golden standard of football games according to most) is just no where close to PES in any way especially in regards to simple things like passing and the player/ball physics. And the game as a whole pales in comparison to PES in most departments.
Despite the many areas that need improvement in PES, we all shouldn’t take for granted having a game that players like us who actually care about gameplay (and who want to see a realistic football sim) can actually enjoy. I’m personally very excited for the demo & I can’t wait to see for myself in what ways the game has improved. For those feeling unenthusiastic, try playing a game of Fifa and imagine if that was the only good football game out there. I remember when PES almost looked dead & buried especially around PES 14 when they basically had to start from scratch because of the Fox engine. & to see the progress the game has made since then to now, actually having the pull to get licenses like Bayern in the current market and have a club like Juve completely unlicensed in Fifa (and still remain #1 in the gameplay department) is exciting and bodes well for the future.
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Not sure about you, but for me the term 'gameplay' is not just about on the ball stuff (animations, ball physics), its more than that such as player's positioning, atmosphere, tactics, AI, etc. At least for me
 
janguv said:
Hype level for demo is 6.5 myself.

Would probably be a 7 if I could reasonably anticipate that the quality of the demo will represent, roughly, the quality of the final product. But the online quality alone always seems better at this stage (since the 2018 beta onwards), and I know many here complain about the fundamentals being changed by release.

Konami/Adam Bhatti/Robbye Ron are saying the reason it's out so early before release is for fans to feed back to the team for a proper gameplay patch on Day 1. That's intriguing.

Thing is, what's the feeding back mechanism? How are responses weighted, purely by number? Etc. As always, these things tend to be obscure. I'd like to know what their overriding philosophy is, e.g. "don't feed back stuff about x,y,z because it's not a priority right now". But they're never that explicit.

Suppose they get 60 people saying the passing on PA1 is too difficult and 40 saying it's too assisted – what then?
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Exactly. It's one thing to report about bugs or things like that but they should just believe in their philosophy (if they have one these days is another question though...). But you can be certain that they will listen to people who mention they play MyClub since that's where they put their focus.

So if the passing is less assisted on PA1 in the demo (compared to PES 19) I can PROMISE you that it will get more assisted in the final game. I would love to be wrong but remember this post...;)
 
Isaac Ens said:
As someone who still plays both FIFA and PES a lot of the criticism of the game on here has me lost for words. Yes PES has its flaws but in comparison to Fifa (its only serious competitor) there is simply NO CONTEST between the two games. Konami are miles ahead in almost every department especially gameplay wise ( excluding online of course).

It seems as though most here are beginning to (& honestly have been doing so for a while) take for granted just how good a football game PES is and that (whether they want to admit it or not) PES 2020 looks like an improvement on 19.
The gameplay on Fifa 19 (the supposed golden standard of football games according to most) is just no where close to PES in any way especially in regards to simple things like passing and the player/ball physics. And the game as a whole pales in comparison to PES in most departments.
Despite the many areas that need improvement in PES, we all shouldn’t take for granted having a game that players like us who actually care about gameplay (and who want to see a realistic football sim) can actually enjoy. I’m personally very excited for the demo & I can’t wait to see for myself in what ways the game has improved. For those feeling unenthusiastic, try playing a game of Fifa and imagine if that was the only good football game out there. I remember when PES almost looked dead & buried especially around PES 14 when they basically had to start from scratch because of the Fox engine. & to see the progress the game has made since then to now, actually having the pull to get licenses like Bayern in the current market and have a club like Juve completely unlicensed in Fifa (and still remain #1 in the gameplay department) is exciting and bodes well for the future.
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Im assuming your referring to player vs player
 
mahanddeem said:
This year I definitely miss the monkeys Konami brings to test the game, who always BJ the game to no end saying best pes ever!
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It is fairly quiet on that front. I know we're still 6 weeks from release but they're usually well before the demo comes out. Maybe Konami have deemed them (the community playtests) as not serving their purpose anymore? A lot of people are rightfully sceptical when word comes from these playtests of this perfect game, so maybe rather than flooding the community with false positives, they're letting the game speak for itself?

[Edited by mod to remove insults. A quick reminder... This is against forum rules.]
 
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Isaac Ens said:
As someone who still plays both FIFA and PES a lot of the criticism of the game on here has me lost for words. Yes PES has its flaws but in comparison to Fifa (its only serious competitor) there is simply NO CONTEST between the two games. Konami are miles ahead in almost every department especially gameplay wise ( excluding online of course).

It seems as though most here are beginning to (& honestly have been doing so for a while) take for granted just how good a football game PES is and that (whether they want to admit it or not) PES 2020 looks like an improvement on 19.
The gameplay on Fifa 19 (the supposed golden standard of football games according to most) is just no where close to PES in any way especially in regards to simple things like passing and the player/ball physics. And the game as a whole pales in comparison to PES in most departments.
Despite the many areas that need improvement in PES, we all shouldn’t take for granted having a game that players like us who actually care about gameplay (and who want to see a realistic football sim) can actually enjoy. I’m personally very excited for the demo & I can’t wait to see for myself in what ways the game has improved. For those feeling unenthusiastic, try playing a game of Fifa and imagine if that was the only good football game out there. I remember when PES almost looked dead & buried especially around PES 14 when they basically had to start from scratch because of the Fox engine. & to see the progress the game has made since then to now, actually having the pull to get licenses like Bayern in the current market and have a club like Juve completely unlicensed in Fifa (and still remain #1 in the gameplay department) is exciting and bodes well for the future.
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They do some things better but EA do some things better too. If everything about PES on the pitch was better than FIFA then I'd see no reason to play both. The biggest issus for me is that shooting in PES is absolutely terrible and that is the main reason I play FIFA more. Ball physics aside, the way the players hit the ball looks so much more natural and the fact I can vary the power, style and height of shot using the same buttons on any of the assist levels is absolutely what we should be dealing with in 2019, not having to learn a completely different shooting mechanic if we want more freedom.

This isn't the FIFA/PES comparison thread so I'll leave it there, but to say PES is better in most departments just doesn't stand up in my experience.
 
Just the fact that cpu players don't pressure your goalkeeper when on the ball is such a disgusting AI issue that would ease so much Fifa craps!
 
Isaac Ens said:
As someone who still plays both FIFA and PES a lot of the criticism of the game on here has me lost for words. Yes PES has its flaws but in comparison to Fifa (its only serious competitor) there is simply NO CONTEST between the two games. Konami are miles ahead in almost every department especially gameplay wise ( excluding online of course).

It seems as though most here are beginning to (& honestly have been doing so for a while) take for granted just how good a football game PES is and that (whether they want to admit it or not) PES 2020 looks like an improvement on 19.
The gameplay on Fifa 19 (the supposed golden standard of football games according to most) is just no where close to PES in any way especially in regards to simple things like passing and the player/ball physics. And the game as a whole pales in comparison to PES in most departments.
Despite the many areas that need improvement in PES, we all shouldn’t take for granted having a game that players like us who actually care about gameplay (and who want to see a realistic football sim) can actually enjoy. I’m personally very excited for the demo & I can’t wait to see for myself in what ways the game has improved. For those feeling unenthusiastic, try playing a game of Fifa and imagine if that was the only good football game out there. I remember when PES almost looked dead & buried especially around PES 14 when they basically had to start from scratch because of the Fox engine. & to see the progress the game has made since then to now, actually having the pull to get licenses like Bayern in the current market and have a club like Juve completely unlicensed in Fifa (and still remain #1 in the gameplay department) is exciting and bodes well for the future.
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Its all relative which is why the flaws of PES will continue. Konami know this - the target is new customers rather than existing.

The warning to all of you is this - if you venture into PES (MyClub) you need to know that you enter into a highly addictive road to nothing where all your "earnings" pretty much get deleted after 2 years.

For someone who loves collecting players the game will be fun, sure. Thing is these games also aimed at kids and 2 years could be harmful as hell especially if you think PES is a real game and you do things like try to play at 2am to get a lagless game.

This addictive element isn't unique to PES - it covers a lot of modern games. The thing is from my point of view PES used to be a stand-out game that separated itself from these elements which is why I used to love this game.

PES is a HUGE TIME SINK if you let yourself get invested in it. If there was a solid unscripted game here with competitive arenas where you could win a million pounds, then fair enough. But there isn't - maybe there will be one day but at this stage consider us all beta testers for the konami machine.

Much like gambling, make sure you can afford to play before you play.
 
Still don't get this 'the quality of animations, transitions are far from PES 2018'...
Recently I played 16, 17, 18 and then 19 (all on ps4). The animations, transitions and smoothness in general have increased with every version, with 19 feeling and looking the best so far. Pes20, from the 60fps youtube clips, look even better, probably due to the extra variation in animations on and off the ball. Again, I recently tried 18, and it was hard going back and trying this, after playing a lot of 19. I sense the same thing will happen here, ie. I wont be able to go back to 19 after playing the pes 20 demo and then the full version. Hanging for tomorrow... 10pm Australian eastern standard time it should drop in the NZ store... Are we gonna have a "eFootball PES 2020 Demo Impressions" thread... by my time there is about 27hours to go :)
 
^^Anyone else feel a bit freeked out in that video when he's talking about probing and stroking? Just me then..
Well the fact he says every pes has got better since 16 just doesn't fill me with confidence as its got worse since 17
 
JUST small example of bad transition and chunky animation. I really do not have so much time now to explain and to make a longer video.

That is just from first 20 sec of the gameplay video, the game on this stage is full with this, skipping frame, bad animation logic, and speed .. parasite movements that make the game to feel chunky.




There are a LOT even worst looking examples that I can give you but again.. now I do not have time to watch all PES 2020 videos and to make CHUNKY compilations. Maybe another day.

I know that are just Alphas and Betas builds, and maybe I'm just too critical but... I don't know.... the best PES ever.. can't have chunky animations, since once they prove us, that they CAN make animations right.

aussiepesfan said:
Still don't get this 'the quality of animations, transitions are far from PES 2018'...
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In PES 2018 the transitions and logical players movements were spot on.. so natural, it's gone since then. It's hard to explain you just... feel it.
 
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hitmanuk said:
^^Anyone else feel a bit freeked out in that video when he's talking about probing and stroking? Just me then..
Well the fact he says every pes has got better since 16 just doesn't fill me with confidence as its got worse since 17
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I must be in the minority that thinks things (meaning more things, not everything like AI) did improve every version since 16. With 16 and 17, I was still heading back to play pes6 half way though the season. With 18 and 19, I haven't been able to go back to previous versions, or haven had the need to. I personally think he's right in saying the versions have improved in most ways, not every way.

I do think things like 'immediately wanting to watch close up replays of the new faces' was a weird thing to do.. but hey.. each to their own. Ill be going into replays purely to see if Konami have added any new cam angles in this mode.. that's all.
 
I'm not down on Pes 2020 at all, I just think FIFA is closer to what I want nowadays. To me the only thing Pes has over FIFA is animations (jerky as all hell on FIFA's game) and perhaps the feel of passing which has more "oomph" to it on konamis offering.
If FIFA improved on that and increases fouls to say 4 to 5 per 10 minute game, then I see no reason for me to ever play Pes again. I'd rather not that was the case but for me it is.

Everything else to me goes to FIFA. Career mode is so much deeper than master league, it's not even a comparison anymore. Proper match atmosphere and commentary that doesn't make your ears bleed. Way more unpredictable situations especially in shooting.

If Pes brought THAT last thing back I'd be very excited. In that sense FIFA is now more pes-like than Pes itself. Which makes all the recent offerings blend into each other really. It feels like I've been playing the same game for three years on end already and can almost predict the outcome of every shot as soon as I press the button. I feel that is key in ruining that classic goal scoring feel and the sense of "oh I'll have a go from 40 yards out,see what happens". You just can't do that in Pes anymore and it became all the more apparent to me last year after having given FIFA a proper go for once.
 
Both games are far off from where they need to be, though I prefer the gameplay of PES over FIFA personally.

EA with all its money really should have the complete package but they don't, and I feel Konami with their budget do well but should clearly listen to the feedback they get consistently but don't address the issues i.e AI, better online etc.
 
StriderX9 said:
Both games are far off from where they need to be, though I prefer the gameplay of PES over FIFA personally.

EA with all its money really should have the complete package but they don't, and I feel Konami with their budget do well but should clearly listen to the feedback they get consistently but don't address the issues i.e AI, better online etc.
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Konami have the dollars dont you worry about that, the big boss is taking the fans for a ride and he will keep doing it as long as the fans keep paying full price for small updates.
 
StriderX9 said:
Both games are far off from where they need to be, though I prefer the gameplay of PES over FIFA personally.

EA with all its money really should have the complete package but they don't, and I feel Konami with their budget do well but should clearly listen to the feedback they get consistently but don't address the issues i.e AI, better online etc.
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Pretty much.

EA gets the presentation right (having broadcast packages and atuhentic league representation is just a huge aspect of the game when it comes to immersion. Still not even close to the likes of MLB The Show and NBA 2k though), has a decent but completely stagnant career mode and is the game all of your friends will buy.
Unfortunately FUT is the cancer of this game. Every time they try something new, the FUT crowd starts to cry and they patch the game back to FIFA14. The series has basically stopped moving forward in terms of gameplay in 2014 which is a shame as some iterations were steps in the right direction at the time of their release (I remember how a patch broke FIFA18, I was having a great CM with West Ham that felt rewarding, but after a patch I was scoring screamers with players like Chicharito and Carroll all the time. Ruined it).

PES gameplay is more fun against humans when compared to FIFA, but the AI has been utterly broken in the past 2 iterations. And by that I mean broken so badly, that I can barely get through a game without picking up on the AI's terrible flaws. Additionally there is very little variety to shooting which is a breathtakingly stupid thing to do in a football game.
Copying FUT is never gonna be a threat to EA as long as they have the majority of licenses, it's a nice source of income for Konami but that's about it. The game mode doesn't even come close to offering the depth of other card collection modes (again: MLB The Show, Madden, NBA 2K) and feels extremely shallow.
On top of that the general presentation, lack of game modes, lack of stadia, lack of authentic presentation despite having licenced league, stale commentary, terrible UI all over the game, lack of tactical possibilites (remember when you could adjust players behaviour individually?).
While I can accept that Konami doesn't have the budget EA has, there really is no explanation to have a master league that is more shallow than it was on PS2, to have a game that has lost so many features that were part of the series previously.

The state of football game's is baffling. Both haven't really reached a decent level in ages.
The same goes for Madden and to a lesser degree NBA 2K. 2k is still amazing, but once they killed of EA as a competitor they stopped improving the gameplay and started milking the customer for all they're worth. The same thing EA did once Konami lost the plot with FIFA and again what EA did with Madden after 2k had to leave the scene due to EA buying the exclusive NFL right. (Addendum: NBA 2K is still pretty awesome cause they gave their all to defeat EA and are living of the spoils now)

Long story short: Exclusivity has completely and utterly ruined this generation of sports games. They never reached their full potential and nowhere is that more apparent then in football games sadly. EA don't have to care, Konami don't seem to have a clue how to get their share of the cake and are just all over the place (releasing a game with such a broken AI is just inexplicable).
 
Isaac Ens said:
As someone who still plays both FIFA and PES a lot of the criticism of the game on here has me lost for words. Yes PES has its flaws but in comparison to Fifa (its only serious competitor) there is simply NO CONTEST between the two games. Konami are miles ahead in almost every department especially gameplay wise ( excluding online of course).

It seems as though most here are beginning to (& honestly have been doing so for a while) take for granted just how good a football game PES is and that (whether they want to admit it or not) PES 2020 looks like an improvement on 19.
The gameplay on Fifa 19 (the supposed golden standard of football games according to most) is just no where close to PES in any way especially in regards to simple things like passing and the player/ball physics. And the game as a whole pales in comparison to PES in most departments.
Despite the many areas that need improvement in PES, we all shouldn’t take for granted having a game that players like us who actually care about gameplay (and who want to see a realistic football sim) can actually enjoy. I’m personally very excited for the demo & I can’t wait to see for myself in what ways the game has improved. For those feeling unenthusiastic, try playing a game of Fifa and imagine if that was the only good football game out there. I remember when PES almost looked dead & buried especially around PES 14 when they basically had to start from scratch because of the Fox engine. & to see the progress the game has made since then to now, actually having the pull to get licenses like Bayern in the current market and have a club like Juve completely unlicensed in Fifa (and still remain #1 in the gameplay department) is exciting and bodes well for the future.
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:APPLAUD::TU: well said. some just keep looking for what is not present in the game instead for appreciating what is. Glass half empty mentality i guess.
 
wijnar1 said:
:APPLAUD::TU: well said. some just keep looking for what is not present in the game instead for appreciating what is. Glass half empty mentality i guess.
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Sorry this is a main part of the problem, keep comparing to FIFA.
The main issue with PES is its dummed down for online.
The AI has got pregressively worse since 17 and that's a fact. 18 was better than 19 but practically all the fouls were removed. 19 started off awful with AI refusing to shoot and always pushing ball out wide until a patch kind of sorted it but then another patch ruined what bit they had fixed. It's just one touch pass with no physicality and too much space. Now the animations may have got better and the visuals but the fundementals of the sport have been stripped back.
Little fouls and physicality
No midfield battes
Next to zero penalties
Awful AI attacking patterns - same goals over and over
Limited dribbling
Limited individualism - because the shooting and dribbling are dummed down players like hazard don't stand out
Minimal pass error from AI
This is 2019 in a nutshell and all better in 17

So yes pes does a lot better than FIFA but still gets the fundementals wrong
 
Okey, so tomorrow we can download the demo, seems I was right, 13 stadiums and all new ones are available My question to you all is..which teams will your first game be with ? Teams and stadium for you first game?
 
I’m not a big fan of this ‘appreciate what we get’ idea, maybe I am a ‘glass half empty’ son of a gun but if key features have been dumbed down, run down, stagnated or removed then I can’t find the appreciation there. [disclaimer: despite claiming otherwise, neither of my parents are actually firearms]

It’s a full price product that we pay for, we’re not gifted it by Konami. Appreciation of something that should be a lot better is not too far removed from those on twitter who thank officialpes for allowing them to spend money on MyClub spins. I just can’t get my old grumpy head around it.

My biggest issue with the current output is why I suspect we oldies hold the PES6’s and such in high regard. It’s not graphics and shizzwaz, yes there are AI and basic enjoyment issues, but my main gripe is that back then I felt those games were pushing boundaries, pushing the tech, moving the genre forward. Now it’s just, “that’ll do”, same again next year. Rinse and repeat, same issues, same forum posts, same false hype, but shiny new faces to distract us. We should be getting better, from both titles.
 
WENB Refugee said:
More gaslighting.
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Whether you agree with those who thoroughly enjoy modern PES titles or not, calling that post "gaslighting" is absurdly over the top. It epitomises the desperately divisive mentality that has lurked around in forums for a good while now, and it's really not helpful. It's in keeping with your namesake though, iirc a banned term here.

It's possible to strongly disagree without suggesting that those whom you disagree with are entirely disingenuous, or are trying to make you doubt your own reality.
aussiepesfan said:
I do think things like 'immediately wanting to watch close up replays of the new faces' was a weird thing to do.. but hey.. each to their own. Ill be going into replays purely to see if Konami have added any new cam angles in this mode.. that's all.
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It's not my bag either, but it's concerning to see how something like that is immediately focused on as a red flag – a marker to help dismiss the rest of what someone might say. In reality, it just reflects the echo chamber effect of certain sections of the PES community. Step outside a little bit, and you realise the diversity of views, and more importantly viewsets – it makes it harder to typecast PES fans.

E.g., on the forum for my online PES league (note: not "PES League"), since we have a player database and every manager has their own team which they've crafted over time, a lot of the managers care about things like real faces looking good, kit design, even boots, small stat changes, whether stats like height are accurate, etc. etc. I know that some here would think that would make them irredeemable casuals, but it's simply not true. Many in their 40s+, been playing PES since ISS, very skilled and knowledgeable PES players, and so on.

But you don't get to see that here often enough because the viewsets polarise so quickly. It's a shame.

Edit: to keep it OT.. err, I'm looking forward to the demo.. a little birdie told me that "PA1 is as free as a bird"...
 
The president of the Polish Football Association has tweeted that he has selected a 'national team' for esports and specified that both UEFA and FIFA want to have their tournament organised next year. There was also some information availible that the national team wouldn't be playing FIFA, but PES. I think that an esports EURO in PES is pretty much certain.
 
Just played a couple of games of PES 5 and it's incredible how space makes the game stand out in realism compared to 2018-19:

Space on the pitch is much tighter making attacking much harder. There are no easy passing lanes in the attacking third and pressure from the CPU is felt immediately when your CBs and MFs possess the ball. I think this is (mainly) achieved by the pitch being smaller than in 2019 and by the CPU taking more sensible positions on the pitch plus being much more aggressive on the ball carrier.

Passing is also a bit more prone to error but it's not a huge difference. To me it seems that passing is mainly harder because receiving players have to control the ball and they struggle to do so when receiving overpowered passes. Also, because space is tighter in the final third you can't just ping pong first time pass through defenses; the passing lanes are often blocked by opponents.

The thighter space and AI aggression also cause many more fouls all over the pitch.


And to the "glass is half full" kinda guys: I do like and prefer things from the newer games like animations, player models, dribbling and not least the pace of the game BUT recreating the feel (and look) of space and positioning on the pitch is so basic and should be essential to any football game.

But of course this is eFootball, a sport in it's own right they'll tell you.
 
rockstrongo said:
Isn't that already in?
Or am I misunderstanding you?
My CF is 80 ovr,if I put him as a SS he's just a 75 ovr for a instance!
And playing players out of position for a long period of time makes them better in that new position.
I think it's a good system.
Maybe I misunderstood?
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I mean you could have a player with all the necessary stats to play lets say DM. but because he doesn't have it as a first or secondary position his overall goes low and he plays poorly
 
I think FIFA 18 has the most well done animations. This and PES 2014. PES 2018 is a honorable mention too.
Pes 2019 and PES 2020, although players weight seems good and animations more "soccer-ish' transitions and seams between them kill the whole fluidity. Especially when player turns at low speed.
Also ball seems to heavy and very little bouncy, gliding a lot on grass.
In 3 days we'll have the verdict.
 
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