eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

[slamsoze]

LOL WTF is Vieira doing at 1:40-1:55? Running like that facing his own goal instead of trying to close down the space ahead of the player with the ball?.

Except for the general falling back "deep-line defense essence" of the AI, and for Vieira's defense, he is not assigned as RB/CB in game, while in these videos they have him play as defender. Maybe being out-positioned makes things worse.

 

[Matt10]

There's no miedfield because Legend team is playing 3-4-3. Nedved and Viera as Center backs and Totti, Iniesta, Beckham and Nakata in the miedfield, they aren't the most worker team players.

Look that ManU team shape is a lot better.

Hasn't been this video posted yet?
https://www.gamereactor.eu/video/45...er+United+vs+PES+Legends+Full+Match+Gameplay/

It has the best video capture quality published until today.

The animations, ball physics and pace looks incredible.

That's true, but multiple times you can see the defensive line retreat to their preset starting point each time.

It's more legacy (Pes 2016 thru 19) gameplay design of KONAMI misunderstanding that the defensive line should indeed be intended as ONE unit, but in fine fashion they have literally placed them as ONE unit. Again.

I'll have to watch the full video, but from what has been brought up already is concerning on higher difficulties, paired up with the most likely rigid player positioning traits again.

 

[amartingil]

I see a lot of effort to put the eyes only on the bad stuff.

About AI, it won't be a highlight. Specially, knowing where we are coming from. Then, if you want PES for offline experience play it on Pc if you can because mods could solve a lot of this issues.

On the other hand, stuff that people see like an issue, I see it from other perpective. For example, Team shape breaked in transitions. We know that fast paced build up it's huge rewarded on online matches on latest PES.
This happens because all players join to attack or defense inmediatly in counters. So, you don't have any team shape penalty when you play like this and you can exploit this mechanic.

Then, what I've seen in PES 2020 gameplay is that, if you don't take care of your pace, and you don't wait to your teammate's transition, with slow build ups, you loose the miedfield easily. And i think this is good and realistic.

Anyone agree with that??

 

[Nacho10]

Having watched both of those vids vs AI it looks pretty grim again for offline players.

Both times the user has a huge possession advantage against a team full of superstars, because there's no AI midfield buildup, it's just forward bullet pass to feet of the strikers as quick as possible. Also the user out passes the AI in terms of number of passes because there's no AI midfield buildup.

Just looks so sterile and repetitive to me.

 

[Chris Davies]

I see a lot of effort to put the eyes only on the bad stuff. [...] About AI, it won't be a highlight. [...] Then, if you want PES for offline experience play it on Pc if you can because mods could solve a lot of this issues.

I don't think that's true at all. There was a video of human-v-AI released yesterday and a lot of us said "we can't judge this, because the AI is clearly on the easiest setting". We waited.

Now we have a video on Legend difficulty (according to Twitter) - of the Legend players - so when it comes to judging AI, I mean, this is literally what we've been waiting for. What happens? The midfield goes missing, the defenders retreat to the goalkeeper as soon as you get the ball, the only build-up play that the AI can do is stringing laser-guided first-time passes together, otherwise it's just a perfect 80-yard pass from defender to striker, etc...

For those of us who almost exclusively play the Master League, the AI is a big deal. In-fact, it may well be the one reason I can't play PES 2019. It feels great on the ball. But how can you play if every team plays the same? It's boring on day one.

Saying "play it on PC" is such a bad excuse (I'm not having a go at you, I'm having a go at Konami for consistently making a game that feels half-finished until modders get hold of it - and I'm talking about the gameplay, not the graphics).

 

[NIK778899]

IMO the situation is a little bit different compared to last year, but I cannot say 100% of either "Yes" or "No" at the moment. Here are something I have observed.

1. The "mobile only" restriction is not stated officially. What the J.League official website have officially announced was something like "Konami will implement J.League content in game using mobile phone", but have never say it was only available to mobile phones for Konami. This kind of annoucement will only be released before a new J.League season, and the content of announcement will just be related to "sponsorship" but not "license".

2. Konami had invested a lot in "Esports" stuff this year. Besides "eFootball", they also have announced "eBASEBALL" which involve the teams in Japanese baseball leagues. They have also invested in a place in Ginza, Tokyo. If they want to make it well, I think they will want to invest in J.League again.

3. J1 League has been licensed in FIFA since FIFA 17, for 3 years. It is a common length of a licensing contract as I observed. (e.g. UEFA & Konami with 2015–18, UEFA & EA with 2018–21, Liverpool & Konami with 2016–19)

4. Meanwhile, EA have just shuted down their offices in Tokyo and Moscow in March 2019. It is happened after Russia Premier Liga being exclusive to PES. I guess their is a chance that J.League may be the same.

5. In June 2019, Konami has released another game with J.League. The game is not named as Winning Eleven in Japanese, but it have used a Winning Eleven hash tag.


6. Jonas Lygaard has been tweeting about #JL recently, although it may just be trolling.

Fair enough.
I'd still argue that at this time there's nothing concrete to suggest it'll be in. If it is then great but I'm not yet convinced.

 

[NIK778899]

We don't allow insults here. Be as constructively critical as you like but if you call someone an idiot - whether they post here or not - you will be getting an infraction. Don't say you weren't warned.

I've just seen my post was edited. Just want to clarify that it was for comedic effect rather than a legit insult, hence the strikethrough text.

 

[Dennis_87]

The thing i don't understand is how can someone who works for a videogame site or something and is supposed to be some kind of an expert at videogames,can go and play the game at Begginer difficulty which looks retarded and not doing any justice to the game and how it's supposed to be played under normal circumstances,and then say that he's done a review of it and have an opinion..
I'm not saying that he should be one of the greatest players out there,but he should at least be able to play on Professional.Otherwise what's the point of seeing such a video and form any opinion?
It not only makes the game look worse than what it is but you make yourself also look like a noob and there's no reason for someone to take your video or opinion seriously..
It's like if you're having a car tv show,and you're asked to test drive a Ferrari,but because you're a noob driver you can only drive at 40 kmh.Why would anyone want to see that?
Also being a critic or a reviewer in general must be one of the most meaningless jobs in my opinion.
I don't understand why some people bother so much about what some other dude said about a film or some music or a game.Why not just have a fucking personality of your own and decide for yourself?Why are you supposed to like or dislike the same things?And why the fuck this dude is supposed to be some kind of guru or something?It's just his opinion and it doesn't mean anything more than someone's else opinion.Ridiculous stuff really..
Especially these tv/movie/music critics snobs..Ridiculous that this thing is even called a job..

On another topic..It will be interesting to see if Konami will keep this new camera for Pes League or if they will allow them ''pros'' to change it when they make the livestreams.Because even with PA3 it will be more difficult to play ping pong because of the angle it has.They surely will whine that they can't play their precious ping pong so effectively as the previous years,but if Konami want to retain this fresh look in their game then they will force them to play with it as it is which i hope so and put them out of their comfort zone for a change..
Personally i'm not a fan of these cameras with such an angle so i'm gonna stay with Dynamic Wide.

 

[raul_ole]

I don't think that's true at all. There was a video of human-v-AI released yesterday and a lot of us said "we can't judge this, because the AI is clearly on the easiest setting". We waited.

Now we have a video on Legend difficulty (according to Twitter) - of the Legend players - so when it comes to judging AI, I mean, this is literally what we've been waiting for. What happens? The midfield goes missing, the defenders retreat to the goalkeeper as soon as you get the ball, the only build-up play that the AI can do is stringing laser-guided first-time passes together, otherwise it's just a perfect 80-yard pass from defender to striker, etc...

For those of us who almost exclusively play the Master League, the AI is a big deal. In-fact, it may well be the one reason I can't play PES 2019. It feels great on the ball. But how can you play if every team plays the same? It's boring on day one.

Saying "play it on PC" is such a bad excuse (I'm not having a go at you, I'm having a go at Konami for consistently making a game that feels half-finished until modders get hold of it - and I'm talking about the gameplay, not the graphics).

Dt18 cpk solves that problem. Pes plays great again. You really should try it on Pc

 

[Lons]

Well we will play on Allianz Arena since january 2020... absolutely love this stadium...

 

[Ameppe]

I don't think that's true at all. There was a video of human-v-AI released yesterday and a lot of us said "we can't judge this, because the AI is clearly on the easiest setting". We waited.

Now we have a video on Legend difficulty (according to Twitter) - of the Legend players - so when it comes to judging AI, I mean, this is literally what we've been waiting for. What happens? The midfield goes missing, the defenders retreat to the goalkeeper as soon as you get the ball, the only build-up play that the AI can do is stringing laser-guided first-time passes together, otherwise it's just a perfect 80-yard pass from defender to striker, etc...

For those of us who almost exclusively play the Master League, the AI is a big deal. In-fact, it may well be the one reason I can't play PES 2019. It feels great on the ball. It's the AI that's my issue.

Saying "play it on PC" is such a bad excuse (I'm not having a go at you, I'm having a go at Konami for consistently making a game that feels half-finished until modders get hold of it - and I'm talking about the gameplay, not the graphics).

Totally agree. We already have enough evidence that right now CPU AI is extremely similar to Pes 2019 with some tweaks to lower passing precision. Midfield is missing, CPU rushes to attack with quick passes, long balls to reach the striker. Almost 0 individual skills by top players.

I can only hope in demo there will atleast be variation between teams play styles. Considering almost all vs CPU games they have released are vs Legends team.

 

[NIK778899]

Well we will play on Allianz Arena since january 2020... absolutely this love this stadium...

I imagine it'll be in from the off.

Funny though, isn't it? Ibrox and Celtic Park take six months but you can be sure they won't delay either of the Allianzs.

 

[amartingil]

I don't think that's true at all. There was a video of human-v-AI released yesterday and a lot of us said "we can't judge this, because the AI is clearly on the easiest setting". We waited.

Now we have a video on Legend difficulty (according to Twitter) - of the Legend players - so when it comes to judging AI, I mean, this is literally what we've been waiting for. What happens? The midfield goes missing, the defenders retreat to the goalkeeper as soon as you get the ball, the only build-up play that the AI can do is stringing laser-guided first-time passes together, otherwise it's just a perfect 80-yard pass from defender to striker, etc...

For those of us who almost exclusively play the Master League, the AI is a big deal. In-fact, it may well be the one reason I can't play PES 2019. It feels great on the ball. But how can you play if every team plays the same? It's boring on day one.

Saying "play it on PC" is such a bad excuse (I'm not having a go at you, I'm having a go at Konami for consistently making a game that feels half-finished until modders get hold of it - and I'm talking about the gameplay, not the graphics).

I'm a little bit worried with AI too, but I can't get trustly feedback from a match played by noob against "maybe" Legend leveled CPU Legend team. So I wait until 30 July to get conclusions.

I digged into Dt18 modding a little bit, and I know now the whole AI has to be reworked to achive more realistic behaviours. Then, the only thing we can expect for PES 2020 is a fair, varied and human AI, not so much. We won't have miracles there. I assure you.

 

[Emroth]

I digged into Dt18 modding a little bit, and I know now the whole AI has to be reworked to achive more realistic behaviours. Then, the only thing we can expect for PES 2020 is a fair, varied and human AI, not so much. We won't have miracles there. I assure you.

So, what you're basically saying is - if you want a good gameplay offline - you need to finish building AI yourself, with the mods, on PC. So console players should forget Pes and just play other games, yeah?
And why is console version full price then??

Sorry, but these are ridiculous excuses.
Im starting to feel very happy I didnt pre order this year.

 

[Peter Withe]

"Sack the idiots that aren't making progress with the series". You are definitely insulting developers.

Ah but you assume I meant developers! I didn't say 'the developers' at all. It's the unprofessional gentleman Konami hire to be the face of PES and pretend it's amazing every damn year that I was talking about. But you're right, I could have worded it much better.

@Chris Davies Apologies for my post. "Idiots" was strong, I've had too much sun I think.

Whilst we're at it, can we ban the use of 'retard', 'retarded' and 'mongo' which I see posted regularly? I teach children with special needs and find these words highly offensive.

 

[Madmac79]

Didn't Bhatti or some other verified guy tweeted specifically, in response to somebody, that this year cpu players were acting more realistically (dribblers dribbling, outsiders shooters shooting more etc.)?

If it's the same generic nonsense as 2019 in this regard, I'm out honestly. I can forgive it not being perfect but another year of monodimensional cpu=big no no

 

[Ameppe]

Ah but you assume I meant developers! I didn't say 'the developers' at all. It's the unprofessional gentleman Konami hire to be the face of PES and pretend it's amazing every damn year that I was talking about.

First, Konami marketing guys are still people doing their job that you are insulting.
Second, i don't see how changing marketing guys Pes will suddenly make progress.

 

[Peter Withe]

First, Konami marketing guys are still people doing their job that you are insulting.
Second, i don't see how changing marketing guys Pes will suddenly make progress.

Yep, you've said the same thing three times now. I've apologised. Move on.

 

[amartingil]

So, what you're basically saying is - if you want a good gameplay offline - you need to finish building AI yourself, with the mods, on PC. So console players should forget Pes and just play other games, yeah?
And why is console version full price then??

Sorry, but these are ridiculous excuses.
Im starting to feel very happy I didnt pre order this year.

I'm saying that we can expect AI without cheating, without weird and stuborn behaviours, and a little bit more smart.

Not anything revolutionary, because it wasn't announced. If you're a Pc user it can be improved, but not so much.

My wish is that AI has individual behaviours, match context awarness, stats based mind, tactical knowledge...but I know won't be on next PES.

 

[kernowdoc]

That's true, but multiple times you can see the defensive line retreat to their preset starting point each time.

It's more legacy (Pes 2016 thru 19) gameplay design of KONAMI misunderstanding that the defensive line should indeed be intended as ONE unit, but in fine fashion they have literally placed them as ONE unit. Again.

I'll have to watch the full video, but from what has been brought up already is concerning on higher difficulties, paired up with the most likely rigid player positioning traits again.

The comp attackers do it as well. Soon as the ball is lost they disappear back to their preset position on the pitch, even though it would make more sense to close down the defender. The code has major flaws that have been evident for years now.

 

[kernowdoc]

I'm saying that we can expect AI without cheating, without weird and stuborn behaviours, and a little bit more smart.

Not anything revolutionary, because it wasn't announced. If you're a Pc user it can be improved, but not so much.

My wish is that AI has individual behaviours, match context awarness, stats based mind, tactical knowledge...but I know won't be on next PES.

So offline players have to accept mediocrity then? Maybe next year.....

 

[Madmac79]

Spoiler

Eh, those were the tweets. I don't know, judge for yourself. I'm not expecting state of art AI, but not even the copy of the last year's unacceptable one. Those are pretty specific claims that he would have had no reason to do if there wasn't a significant improvement there.

Which, again, doesn't mean something generally outstanding, but just better and more varied than that soulless one-two's and high shots.

 

[Emroth]

I'm saying that we can expect AI without cheating, without weird and stuborn behaviours, and a little bit more smart.

Not anything revolutionary, because it wasn't announced. If you're a Pc user it can be improved, but not so much.

My wish is that AI has individual behaviours, match context awarness, stats based mind, tactical knowledge...but I know won't be on next PES.

I didnt expect revolutionary. Want a solid, unpredictable and varied AI. Pes17 level. All I want.

- dribbling - there is some, but havent seen anything flashy and cool. Havent seen a single AI star player performing some really good trick or leaving HUM player behind, like they did to me on pes17.
- shots from distance - so far havent seen any either...
- physicality - all this talk, some cool gifs, new deliberate fouls system.. so far havent seen any of that either. AI doesnt even do sliding tackles out of desperation, when you pass them. They look like Man Utd team last season, lacking any will to fight. This Pes trailer could have been one and only time we saw this deliberate foul. Like rising shot last year. I havent had a single one in whole time I played pes19.
- new, more realistic, improved first time touch - all nice on paper. While User has the ball it looks indeed harder to control. I thought the main purpose of that was to slow things down and get rid of ping pong fiesta. And while pace seems to be slower, ball seems faster. And it doesnt stop AI from stringing 5x100mph passes to go from one penalty area to the other in 2.5 seconds.

A lot of people seems to think we are expecting some miracles here.. we dont. These are basics. We shouldnt need mods to bring those elements to the game.

 

[amartingil]

The comp attackers do it as well. Soon as the ball is lost they disappear back to their preset position on the pitch, even though it would make more sense to close down the defender. The code has major flaws that have been evident for years now.

Yeah, but people asked for new Master League, because they think the reason it was boring it's due to not enought deep managing instead of the poor AI.

Guys I can play 3 PES 6 ML seasons in a row paying Castolo with PESCOINS!! So maybe management is secondary.

- new, more realistic, improved first time touch - all nice on paper. While User has the ball it looks indeed harder to control. I thought the main purpose of that was to slow things down and get rid of ping pong fiesta. And while pace seems to be slower, ball seems faster. And it doesnt stop AI from stringing 5x100mph passes to go from one penalty area to the other in 2.5 seconds.

A lot of people seems to think we are expecting some miracles here.. we dont. These are basics. We shouldnt need mods to bring those elements to the game.

Legend level CPU -> Stats boost cheating
Legend team -> Top high skills players

I'm on your side, but I want to wait to put my hands on it.

 

[OBH]

Can we rename this thread "Every little thing I don't like about PES" please?

Roll on the demo. Critiquing videos is getting painful.

Gameplay by shogun

There is not a chance in hell that this is Legend difficulty.
The player is winning headers and the AI chips the ball over the crossbar with Batistuta when it's an open goal? Not a chance.

'Max difficulty' must mean 'max available on this build'.

 

[Tom]

Whilst we're at it, can we ban the use of '******', '********' and '*****' which I see posted regularly? I teach children with special needs and find these words highly offensive.

I've just implemented a censoring function containing these words to our board software. I've worked with severly disabled children myself and can totally relate. Bless you and what you're doing, mate. You're awesome!

 

[Peter Withe]

I've just implemented a censoring function containing these words to our board software. I've worked with severly disabled children myself and can totally relate. Bless you and what you're doing, mate. You're awesome!

Thanks Tom, it’s much appreciated!

And thanks for the kind words.

 

[Chuny]

Didn't Bhatti or some other verified guy tweeted specifically, in response to somebody, that this year cpu players were acting more realistically (dribblers dribbling, outsiders shooters shooting more etc.)?

If it's the same generic nonsense as 2019 in this regard, I'm out honestly. I can forgive it not being perfect but another year of monodimensional cpu=big no no

Spoiler

View attachment 17165

Eh, those were the tweets. I don't know, judge for yourself. I'm not expecting state of art AI, but not even the copy of the last year's unacceptable one. Those are pretty specific claims that he would have had no reason to do if there wasn't a significant improvement there.

Which, again, doesn't mean something generally outstanding, but just better and more varied than that soulless one-two's and high shots.

Bhatti always reacts to positive comments and feedback and tries to enforce the idea of what the original poster said, even if it's not entirely true.

I remember before PES 2018 came out, I was very excited about it (mainly because they were finally making the PC version as good or better than the consoles one, taking it to NextGen, and also because the new lighting was very good) and I Tweeted him about some of the stuff I was excited about, can't really remember what they were. But he answered me back (that was way before he muted me), always trying to make it bigger than it really was. After a couple of months playing the game I realised it wasn't all true, not to that extent anyways.

So I think he's trying to do the same now.
If you say "I love the new 3D Scans" he'll probably react and say something like "Wait until you see.... xxxx".
If you say "The new finesse dribbling looks amazing", he'll probably react and say "You can really skin defenders once you master it".
If you say "The new PlayerID looks great!", he'll probably react and say "It's stronger and better than ever! Wait until you see.... xxxx".

- All of which, I'd just put between big question marks until I try it myself.

 

[PES94]

That video only makes things look worse for me. Batistuta missing an open goal in the highest difficulty, like what! AI is still a total bore. There is nothing natural about how they play. Also the ball physics is kinda different compared to the E3, not in a good way. The game looks very boring and lifeless. Not going to buy it if this is the best they can do. They are so stubborn, everyone and I mean everyone talks for years how PES lacks atmosphere, how hard is it to add and program bunch of noises, why is it so difficult to add managers, bench players, bench warm up, ball boy, fans reactions, etc. What’s their excuse, FOX engine is meant for an open world, so it’s more than capable. Yet every year they talk about listening to the fans. The collisions are still so awkward, when in pes 2014 was even more advanced than this shit. Talk about incompetence, I don’t understand did the developers of that year get fired or something, because I can’t believe a game that old is more advanced than a game that is supposed to release soon. Players running still looks so off, they accelerate so awkwardly/so unnatural, like if there is something up their ass.

 

[Marlon Anthony]

Regarding assistance and the controversy of PES League Tournament finalists playing on assisted settings...

Surely if Konami want it to be considered an e-sports title, it should have a learning curve?

If the pinnacle of e-sports is a tournament for a ton of cash, then it should be hard to master?

It's similar to veteran Street Fighter players complaints about how the skill gap has been reduced over the years and that being a very skilled Street Fighter player was something you had to put the hours in, Mastering complex combo's and taking your experience to tournaments against other players from around the world, Giving us moments like the legendary Daigo Parry which was a complete once in a lifetime stroke of timing, Skill & fortune combo sequence, Now relegated to being a gimmicked special move in the current Street Fighter that anybody can their dog can perform.

It's the same with PES. Anybody can score wonder goals with one hand on the controller and the other scrolling through Twitter and when that happens, Their no longer special efforts, they're no longer magical moments of football gaming.

I understand you want to appeal to casual players and people who come home from getting their arses kicked at work and just want to play tiki taka with little stress and it's great that they have the choice, But that should be an easy option - An alternative. Make the default setting something like Semi Assisted on FIFA. Something with Error if you don't concentrate and if you wanna be the best PES player in the world and travel to a nice city to compete for a ton of cash, It should be those who's hard work and patience with manual are rewarded with an opportunity.