Chuny
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- 11 December 2007
hahahaah
eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)
- Thread starter ThomasGOAL
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hahahaah
Chuny
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- 11 December 2007
- Staff
- #2,703
Really badly misplaced pass by the human player in the first 10 seconds of the 2014 clip. I love to see that. Plus a nice little dummy.
PES 2020 looks great (okay, stunning) from a distance, then you notice things like when Man United lose possession, the CM (Pogba?) runs backwards like a child is on fire in the front row behind his goalkeeper.
I'm sure 2014 has that stuff too, but my point is, five years on, and... The graphics are great, sure. But is it much better, gameplay-wise? (Discounting the lagginess, which makes it unplayable, I'll admit that.)
Chuny
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- 11 December 2007
Yeah I think Matt was spot on yesterday (on Twitter) when he was describing the issue with the positioning.
The players "know" they have to get to a very specific point on the pitch at a given situation, they don't care about the circumstances or the surroundings or what would be better for the team. They just rush to their position.
- Staff
- #2,705
If that CM (who I'm going to say is Pogba) is running back at full-speed to defend, it's funny, because he stands way off the "Legends" CM/AM and Pogba doesn't even move towards him when that CM gets fed the ball - he moves AWAY from him to run directly towards his goalkeeper instead (you could argue he's opting to block a passing lane but if so, it's way ahead of time).
It truly is as basic as - when possession is lost, STAND HERE and EXACTLY HERE, until someone enters your personal space and/or we get possession back. I struggle to get past this and enjoy the game - so much of the important stuff is so cripplingly basic.
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Schwarzenbeck
Premier League
To be fair, Messi is sliding quite a bit there in that last 2014 clip. Don't have any concrete memory of 2014. Have bought three past versions of PES in the last months (2013, 2015 and 2017) after someone mentioned that this and that was amazing in 20xx, yet somehow returned back to 2019 quickly every time. I am not saying it's the best ever, but I still like the overall package most (on the PC, mind)
- Staff
- #2,707
Ive seen his post and he was bang on.
It looks almost like they had no defensive mindset in them. They are purely position focused the minute ball is lost and then ball focused when ball is around penalty area. There is no awareness involving opposition.. The more you read posts like Matts and people opinions here - the more you notice and the weirder it looks..
And you cant un-see it..
g2bam
Conference
- 5 March 2007
ey guys... couldnt resist!
I JUST PREORDERED!!!
That's a nice new 'coaster' you've ordered there
amartingil
League 1
- 20 September 2016
Nobody could expect this huge turn into slow paced simulation style. It was impossible to predict it if you look to the gameplay progression of the last 4 years. So lets be a little bit more positive guys.
We want more misplaced passes, we want more shoot error, we dream with AI perfection...maybe next years.
Now, the game has done a great step to our oldschool side. This is really cool, at least.
PES 2020 seems more slower than PES 2014.
We want more misplaced passes, we want more shoot error, we dream with AI perfection...maybe next years.
Now, the game has done a great step to our oldschool side. This is really cool, at least.
PES 2020 seems more slower than PES 2014.
- Staff
- #2,710
Are you seriously saying we should be positive because, over the last five years of development, they haven't added the stuff you mention (in-fact, it's got worse and there are less misplaced passes etc.), but maybe next year - in a complete turnaround - they might suddenly add that stuff?
That is the one major positive I can see. There are others too - "Inspire", the introduction of miskicks etc... But PA1 is still far too accurate, there are still big tactical behaviour problems where the AI behind positional movement is as basic as schoolboy football, and... Yeah, there's a lot that won't be okay (and that modding can't completely fix, I might add - you can't add intelligence, only tweak it)...
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Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
About that yesterday me and @B-Man on Twitter discussed that maybe these AI positioning issues all come from Fox Engine AI being created to be used in Metal Gear Solid V that was brought into Pes without being adapted to a football game AI. I was not convinced and honestly watching the first FE Pes, 2014, i don't see any particular AI positioning issues and i don't remember complaining about that either. I still believe it's a matter of lack of focus on offline gameplay,i don't think they really test the game to notice that this kind of AI quickly makes playing offline boring. It's not a priority for them anymore, that's the real issue, not something coming from Fox Engine.
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Danny Henry
The King is dead.
- 16 September 2013
Im speechless. I not saying nothing since I will be redundant...again. PES goes downhill in terms of animations, inertia and footplanting.
What is it matter the game have smooth animations, if the caracters dont moves like professional football players?
Look at that one handed save man! Looking at this 2014 footage makes me really sad. How or why a company goes backwards in therm of tech?
Damn those ultra responsive input fetishists.
For what I saw on those efootball PES 2019 Final Edition videos, I already made my mind. Im gonna skip this year.
Sorry for the rant. Good day to you all.
Chuny
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- 11 December 2007
All of which would be so quickly fixable through sliders...... *sigh*
Peter Withe
It must be. It is! Peter Withe!
- 10 August 2018
Does anyone think PES only has one or two releases left before it’s purely just a mobile game?
I feel like the series is heading to a weird place, just a hunch but if you read the replies to official PES on twitter, it’s just loads of kids going on about PES Mobile.
What is the mobile game like btw?
I feel like the series is heading to a weird place, just a hunch but if you read the replies to official PES on twitter, it’s just loads of kids going on about PES Mobile.
What is the mobile game like btw?
Chilleverest
League 1
- 6 June 2018
As long as they have footsliding in the name of ''response'', the game will never look good in the eye nor it will play as a sim.
Danny Henry
The King is dead.
- 16 September 2013
Its better imo. It looks like a remastered version of PS2 version.
- Staff
- #2,717
Well, offline, there's no Master League or similar - you just play random teams who are really easy to beat. There's nothing to do really, unless you want to play online.
Matches last about five minutes in total, and gameplay is just "tap to pass to that guy" type stuff. It perfectly suits the PES engine, because it's basic enough that you don't need to observe spaces and know the abilities of your players - you just tap a guy to pass to a guy, and there's the perfect pass.
I'm not trying to sound shitty here, I swear, but it makes you realise that the engine (on console) is essentially a mobile phone game. It's built to be basic, assisted and fast - ball physics, body position, tactics etc. don't really play a big part.
The non-mobile 2020 looks better with the talk of "context-sensitive miskicks" or whatever they're called. But as things stand, yeah, there's a noticeable difference between mobile and console, but not a huge difference - the biggest difference is that offline is just random matches.
Marlon Anthony
Purist
The thing is, There will never ever be, 100% realistic animations, Physics or graphics in a video game. Even on next gen, there will always be imperfect elements that will remind us that we're playing a game, Clipping will always exist and in replicating something as complex as football, there's always going to be slightly skipped frames or something will look a little funny.
But in comparing the weight and dribbling of PES 2014 to 2020, It's clear that the former respects realistic representation of inertia & inverse kinetics compared to '19 & by the looks of things so far '20.
orangebard
League 1
- 9 August 2004
Another thing that looked a lot better was the fact that the defensive line didn't retreat immediately to the 18 yard box. I'm sure it's been talked about endlessly already. Can't believe that's become a thing in the last few versions. It would be such a simple thing to fix and immediately would create some more midfield play, rather than allowing these disappointing unchallenged runs from one end of the pitch to the other.
TheGoodOldDays
League 2
- 19 November 2016
I'm not convinced the graphical improvements even improve the experience that much, and might even have the opposite effect. Because if anything, the more photo-realistic it gets visually the more it makes the problems with animations and physics stick out like a sore thumb, and the disparity is going to be even more pronounced in 2020. The most fun I've had with PES in years was on one of the old-gen versions, the graphics were absolute pants but it somehow made the arcadeyness more tolerable.
The thing I notice from watching 2014 is not just movement, physicality and collisions but ball physics: something is terribly broken in newer PES games in terms of the way the ball leaves the foot and travels through the air, most obviously on shots and longer distance passes.
The thing I notice from watching 2014 is not just movement, physicality and collisions but ball physics: something is terribly broken in newer PES games in terms of the way the ball leaves the foot and travels through the air, most obviously on shots and longer distance passes.
- Staff
- #2,721
I can only imagine they implemented this for online players. The more that your defensive line retreats, the more cover you've got when you try to press the opponent to death and miss repeatedly.
Almost like every defender is a "life" and if you move one out and completely miss the ball-carrier (because you're just spamming the "pressure" button), you've got three more "lives" back in the box.
EDIT: It's also the easiest way to "fix" the old "spam lofted through-balls 'til you score" exploit (which, hilariously, the AI loves to spam against you too). It's far easier to do this than it is to make those through-balls less perfect (because everyone loves laser-accuracy, and online, they love PA3).
But yeah, make the defenders stay higher (without programming more intelligence into them) and against a good online opponent, you might concede ten goals per game.
Make the defenders higher AND more intelligent, and you'll get "the FUT problem" - players complaining that your AI defenders are too intelligent and that, for the sake of maintaining the "skill gap" (God I fucking hate that phrase), your defenders need to be totally moronic and have no idea what defending is, until you take control of them.
eSports and myClub have ruined PES.
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Peter Withe
It must be. It is! Peter Withe!
- 10 August 2018
Thanks for the description. Think I’ll avoid it then. I take it that PES mobile is free but with in-game micro transactions?
- Staff
- #2,723
Correct - and (along with other games doing the same thing) it's why Konami had their most profitable year ever last year.
Chuny
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- 11 December 2007
Given the fact that they've just rebranded the name to eFootball PES, I would say 100% no. That's not going to happen.
DuduBR9
Champions League
- 25 July 2010
Give the controller to two typical myclub players. They Will play at a high pass assistance deand their typical 1-2s ping pong Will make It 3x faster and attack plays more effortless than what You see in Pes 2014.
Its not always a matter of How fast It looks, but more How easy It is to reach to attack by just passing quickly (ping pong) with endless 1-2s between players. Thats the sad state of Pés for a long time now, completely aracde and childish. IT IS a game designed for casual that does not require any football mentality.
Its lacking Sense of risk and thats the whole problem. Pressing X Button too quickly should result and overhit, misplaced passes, many rebounds, lots of physical encounters as the ball is no under anyones possession.
And defending without any Sense of tatical positioning, Just attacking the man on the ball like a predator could result in ssessaess to explore and really elevate the risk of fouls.
When we have that, with a decent AI, only then we might have a classe game in our hands.
PRO_TOO
Team Heffernan
we had users here predicting there isnt a 2020 version coming... now we have a demo and a release date.
PES will be there long after you switched to the other game!
kidding! never tried the mobile version. i'm not into mobile gaming at all. i demand some quantity and quality.
PESBUL
Championship
- 11 June 2016
I love this game. Was fantastic for the time... we were playing it all day in PlayStation Cafes.
amartingil
League 1
- 20 September 2016
When a team qualifies into champions league for first time in 5 years, you can't expect that this team wins the competition, but you can enjoy every european night.
About 2014 animations...i don't know if someone here knows anything about animation. But one of the big reasons that there has a good foodplating it's because it was the pes without lesser player individuality of the series.
Then, make a good animation system that has no sense of player differences in speed, explosive power, agility, weight, etc...
its so simple.
You can run the same animation parameters for all of them and you won't have this footplanting issues.
Peter Withe
It must be. It is! Peter Withe!
- 10 August 2018
You do make a valid point.
I don’t want the series to end of course. I just want Konami to give us a good game.
My fondest gaming memories of all time was playing PES back in the day.
Chuny
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- 11 December 2007
The more football games we have, the better.
Competition is healthy and it makes them stay on their toes. Even if EA/FIFA has been the clear winner for the better part of a decade now in terms of sales, marketing, licenses, etc... they know they can't just relax because PES is stronger than it was 5 years ago and they may take some fans away as well as some licenses.
Imagine if there was a 3rd and a 4th competitor. Each company would really have to work very hard to find their way, their path and be creative to offer something new.
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