eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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Chris Davies said:
That's just a particularly odd example, and I think it's worth discussing.
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Fair. Sometimes it just seems that you're trying to convince everyone else also?

To answer the clip. Yes it seems odd. But it's also a very small sequence. If we were looking after small errors like this, I think we would find a lot? Would we ever be able to enjoy? Did we use as much time back in the days looking for it?

Actually I don't think it is as crazy as it seems. Arsenal has a long line compact midfield to block the build up - against Bayern? When the long ball then is played, they are able to press the holder. I guess it is how we're all are looking at this.
 
Chris Davies said:
The very first ten seconds of this clip... Arsenal have got 6-7 in midfield, forming one giant line, backing off you like you've got the plague - and they've got one guy who runs FULL PELT backwards, then you make a pass, and he runs FULL PELT forwards - but seemingly randomly!!

The AI is absolutely bonkers!
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I've come to realize neither FIFA or PES is going to truly create the type of A.I. I want in a footy game. Each has their issues. As long as I can get some varied A.I. and the attacking A.I. patterns are gone then I can live with the A.I. as long as it's challenging. I'm more focused on building my squad and how I am trying to build a team and the type of players I want to play with.

Look the pitch is too big or the players are too small, too much artificial space, the twitchy attack and defense movements at sudden changes of possession etc. it all needs to be improved no doubt. We want teams to play like they do in real life but also want individual star players to shine like they did in the PS2 days. I get all of it....but as long as I'm having fun that's all that matters. Try to have some fun chris!!!!!!! If we don't accept these games for what they are we are constantly going to be in a state of misery. That doesn't mean we can't be vocal about improvements needed but I'm exhausted from looking at ever little thing that needs to change. I've done it for 15 years you all heard me on podcasts do it. If and when I stop having fun with pes 2020, i'll go play something else. Life goes on. I worry about your state of mind chris haha i feel like your head will one day explode like the guy in the dave chapelle black-white supremicist episode

I think something we are overlooking watching all these vids and focusing on the A.I. is how the human is playing and how the A.I. is responding to the human opponent. Most people want to press and win the ball back as soon as possible from the A.I. So the A.I. has to play fast and find the open man and also push forward to try and score because it is a 90 min match fit into 10-15 min games. I don't do a lot of pressing. I like to close down space and passing lanes and get guys behind the ball then build up from the back. By getting guys behind the ball and cutting off central passing lanes (i know you hate that instant pass to the striker christopher!) I've seen the A.I. try to attack me in other ways. The variety is the best it's been prob in the last 3 or more years. As long as they got rid of the goal patterns that plagued my enjoyment last year.

I do yearn for the day when the A.I. will switch formations depending on the score and the day where you have to try to double man mark a guy like Mbappe with a CB and a CDM like I used to try and do with Henry on PS2 and he still would skin me alive! Maybe the new engines we'll have a shot at better A.I. but it is what it is at this point....try to have some fun christopheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrr :)
 
B-Man said:
I've come to realize neither FIFA or PES is going to truly create the type of A.I. I want in a footy game. Each has their issues. As long as I can get some varied A.I. and the attacking A.I. patterns are gone then I can live with the A.I. as long as it's challenging. I'm more focused on building my squad and how I am trying to build a team and the type of players I want to play with.
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I feel the same, but you've just said "as long as I get varied AI". I'm seeing no variety in AI whatsoever. Barcelona smashing the ball from defender towards the striker like a Stoke City trying to find a Peter Crouch. I can't get past this, and I can't quite understand how it isn't a bigger problem for most - but, as @Filippo-Inzaghi has pointed out, I'm a broken record, so I'll shut up. I just want an ML where games require different setups to win (which, to answer your point from earlier Filippo, was the case in the older games, and they stand up to this sort of scrutiny).
 
Mikhail said:
always remember mate, people find gameplay quicker or slower than others depending on camera.

If you’re zoomed in close to the action it will feel quick. I always zoom my camera out as far as it will go so it’s slower to me.
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I guess we're talking the standard camera for the most in here? Which camera setting do you use?
 
Chris Davies said:
I feel the same, but you've just said "as long as I get varied AI". I'm seeing no variety in AI whatsoever. Barcelona smashing the ball from defender towards the striker like a Stoke City trying to find a Peter Crouch. I can't get past this, and I can't quite understand how it isn't a bigger problem for most - but, as @Filippo-Inzaghi has pointed out, I'm a broken record, so I'll shut up. I just want an ML where games require different setups to win (which, to answer your point from earlier Filippo, was the case in the older games, and they stand up to this sort of scrutiny).
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Broken record mate! :APPLAUD:

I am agreeing with you. But as I mentioned in my long post a couple of pages back.. I think we're using a lot of time getting frustrated of what we're not having these days.

My point is that I don't think we will get it back as focus has changed from the game developers.

Therefore I'm happy to see that there is other things that will create variety. Such as there is a difference in stats you actually can feel. Maybe it's not as realistic as we could hope for, but in the demo I think the AI has been a lot more varied. Is it a representation of how the team plays irl? Maybe not - but it keeps me entertained.

I know some thinks fifa has this variety, but I didn't feel this at all last year. It was very repetitive in my opinion.
 
Filippo-Inzaghi said:
Broken record mate! :APPLAUD:

I am agreeing with you. But as I mentioned in my long post a couple of pages back.. I think we're using a lot of time getting frustrated of what we're not having these days.

My point is that I don't think we will get it back as focus has changed from the game developers.

Therefore I'm happy to see that there is other things that will create variety. Such as there is a difference in stats you actually can feel. Maybe it's not as realistic as we could hope for, but in the demo I think the AI has been a lot more varied. Is it a representation of how the team plays irl? Maybe not - but it keeps me entertained.

I know some thinks fifa has this variety, but I didn't feel this at all last year. It was very repetitive in my opinion.
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FIFA’s AI is terrible. People will claim that sliders ‘fix’ the issues but they don’t, they just cause issues in other areas of the game instead.

I actually don’t have an issue with that video Chris criticised. Arsenal’s midfield sit in a block and try to frustrate Bayern. Emery’s Arsenal would play this way against the better sides.

I’m not saying the AI is good in PES 2020 because we’ve only got a short demo to go by. But the videos I’ve seen are fine, the AI passes backwards and tries to build a lot more than in PES 2019.

Also, what camera do I play on? Well, I’ve been alternating between Dynamic Wide and Stadium. Zoomed all the way out, height full on both too.

I prefer how the game flows and looks in Stadium. But I struggle to score and defend.

Dynamic Wide is the perfect angle for me so far.
 
Chris Davies said:
The very first ten seconds of this clip... Arsenal have got 6-7 in midfield, forming one giant line, backing off you like you've got the plague - and they've got one guy who runs FULL PELT backwards, then you make a pass, and he runs FULL PELT forwards - but seemingly randomly!!

The AI is absolutely bonkers!
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In fairness its one passage/faze of play and the cpu has it levels set to defensive..

A sturgid affair were my players form wasn’t great and everyone felt heavy.Arsenal didn’t want to get to tight and were happy to hit me on the counter..Next game very different.

I wouldn’t argue there packing the middle and keeping a mega defensive shape..But I hope you took note of my own defending.

It’s a funny one this game.Because i enjoy playing the cpu on superstar more then any other football game since I can remember.It’s just very human and enjoyable to play.

Maybe it’s the chess like quality of pes2020 that I love..It’s rhythmic and allows you to build and probe.

I need more time,because I know I’m just scratching at the surface with such a short game time...Especially up front..I also want to play around with formations and tactics.

For me games like this don’t come along very often..It’s what I’ve wanted for a long time..
 
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I think it's going to be extremely funny when, 3 months from now, all of us are listening to Chris' tune and singing along to that broken record. Some of you might owe him an apology later on.

I don't think you should mute yourself Chris. You're only expressing what you're seeing. You aren't a hater.
You just can't overlook something that it's right there in your face (for you, of course). You've always expressed your views respectfully, so no... I'm against you shutting up.

I like reading your posts, even if I don't agree (because I'm actually enjoying PES 2020 for the time being), more than I like reading some extremely overreacted positive views and yet I don't tell them to shut up.
 
At the end if the day, we all want two very good football games.

It’s cool we can all be rational and mature with our debates, findings and opinions. It’s just a video game. Brexit and Boris are out there right now. Let’s appreciate the finer things when we’ve got those idiots and issues to contend with! :)
 
Little things will always turn up,also bigger and more game breaking stuff,but as long as the majority of the games are good I'll stick to it .
I had a thing happened to me on FIFA where the goalie punched through my stomach to save a cross,or yesterday when the CPU defender grabbed me by the shoulder and dragged me backwards 1,5-2 meter obviously without it being a penalty.
But it hasn't stopped me playing,bad overall ping ponging game has/would.
I'm looking fw to Pes 20,with what I've seen and played ,it beats what's on the market right now pretty easily.
 
Chuny said:
I think it's going to be extremely funny when, 3 months from now, all of us are listening to Chris' tune and singing along to that broken record. Some of you might owe him an apology later on.

I don't think you should mute yourself Chris. You're only expressing what you're seeing. You aren't a hater.
You just can't overlook something that it's right there in your face (for you, of course). You've always expressed your views respectfully, so no... I'm against you shutting up.

I like reading your posts, even if I don't agree (because I'm actually enjoying PES 2020 for the time being), more than I like reading some extremely overreacted positive views and yet I don't tell them to shut up.
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I’m not changing mine..This for me is a milestone(no flies)..

It’s not perfection but I’m pretty confident this will be loved and revered for years.

It’s a classic...Has all the hallmarks of the best games.Said it from day one and it’s only got better for me..

Anyone that’s been kicking around this industry as long as most of us have.Know when we’ve got something with the quality stamp in are hands.
 
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I’m scared that PES 2020 will have a game breaking issue like the CPU ALWAYS crossing and scoring the same goal in PES 2019 before the update hit and even then, the AI would still score like that at least once every other match.

I’m with Rock. As long as the fundamentals are good and we’re similar to the demo - I’m happy.
 
DigitalByDesign said:
I’m not changing mine..This for me is a milestone(no flies)..

It’s not perfection but I’m pretty confident this will be loved and revered for years.

It’s a classic...Has all the hallmarks of the best games.
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Oh listen, I too want to stay loving this game.
I hope, 10 months from now I'm still as hooked.
Even after seeing repetitive patterns and flaws, I hope I'll be as hooked as I am now.
 
Chris Davies said:
I feel the same, but you've just said "as long as I get varied AI". I'm seeing no variety in AI whatsoever. Barcelona smashing the ball from defender towards the striker like a Stoke City trying to find a Peter Crouch. I can't get past this, and I can't quite understand how it isn't a bigger problem for most - but, as @Filippo-Inzaghi has pointed out, I'm a broken record, so I'll shut up. I just want an ML where games require different setups to win (which, to answer your point from earlier Filippo, was the case in the older games, and they stand up to this sort of scrutiny).
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Haha I just wanted to bust your balls. I love you kitten ❤️
 
Mikhail said:
As long as the fundamentals are good and we’re similar to the demo - I’m happy.
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That's why I stuck and still play fifa 19 (not as much as before) because overall ,take away some annoying shit,it's pretty good.
But I miss that weighty feel of a Pes game,I should really click Pes 20 home soon,even though a ML is useless til the 12th right?
Bet both you and me will be whining as fuck over 20 in a month or so:)
Fingers crossed we won't
 
rockstrongo said:
That's why I stuck and still play fifa 19 (not as much as before) because overall ,take away some annoying shit,it's pretty good.
But I miss that weighty feel of a Pes game,I should really click Pes 20 home soon,even though a ML is useless til the 12th right?
Bet both you and me will be whining as fuck over 20 in a month or so:)
Fingers crossed we won't
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We’ll definitely be moaning about something in a month, guarantee it! :LOL:
 
Just wanted to make clear that my post has nothing to do with me wanting Chris to shut up. That would pretty much be insane and I don't want that on my name. Thanks.

And by the way. The thing mentioned in here, can of course be the case - I just don't want to conclude it already.

If I am curious and a little nervous about something, it will be the AI in Master League. I can still see sequences where the computer are doing pretty much what they want and the classic "score on every free kick" is still there. It can be draining. But I am also prepared for it, so for me it's about not seeing it too much I think.
 
Now I remember... Sometimes I have that feelling "yeah, PES 5 and 6, those were the times"... but when I think of it, I remember that even then I used to moan, quit matches, throw my controller, and even scream so many times because the game was scripting to make me loose matches. Maybe we´re just asking too much nowadays.
 
Filippo-Inzaghi said:
Just wanted to make clear that my post has nothing to do with me wanting Chris to shut up. That would pretty much be insane and I don't want that on my name. Thanks.
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Don't worry about it mate, I wasn't being flippant in my reply, I was just trying to move the topic on that's all. Hopefully @DigitalByDesign knows I wasn't having a go at him either - I'm glad you're enjoying the game buddy.

I'm really interested to see what Legend difficulty does, along with different levels of team spirit in ML. I also know that if @klashman69 puts together an option file where all the tactics are altered to make the AI less inclined to just run every man forwards/backwards with every attack/defence, that would make a big difference too.
 
Chris Davies said:
I feel the same, but you've just said "as long as I get varied AI". I'm seeing no variety in AI whatsoever. Barcelona smashing the ball from defender towards the striker like a Stoke City trying to find a Peter Crouch. I can't get past this, and I can't quite understand how it isn't a bigger problem for most - but, as @Filippo-Inzaghi has pointed out, I'm a broken record, so I'll shut up. I just want an ML where games require different setups to win (which, to answer your point from earlier Filippo, was the case in the older games, and they stand up to this sort of scrutiny).
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Chuny said:
Oh listen, I too want to stay loving this game.
I hope, 10 months from now I'm still as hooked.
Even after seeing repetitive patterns and flaws, I hope I'll be as hooked as I am now.
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​
There are 2 fundamental points of view that need to be pointed out here :

Chris plays console
Chuny plays PC

Having played console my mindset feels "boxed in", on PC with mod capability it is "horizon-like".

The guys who pre-order PES basically accept that what fun they get in the demo will be a true representation of what they will get from the full game - this could not be further from the truth.

The PC guys will preorder - and I cannot blame them because they have modding power - but ANYBODY who preorders is basically harming innovation in the PES series year after year.

The console guys who preorder knowing what they got last year - what are you doing?

You have a community here. IMO it should be using that community power to instil change for the future direction of PES. Yet, a lot of us fall/fell at the first hurdle.

[ I am obviously sceptical that PES 2020 will be a good game ]
 
Chris Davies said:
Don't worry about it mate, I wasn't being flippant in my reply, I was just trying to move the topic on that's all. Hopefully @DigitalByDesign knows I wasn't having a go at him either - I'm glad you're enjoying the game buddy.

I'm really interested to see what Legend difficulty does, along with different levels of team spirit in ML. I also know that if @klashman69 puts together an option file where all the tactics are altered to make the AI less inclined to just run every man forwards/backwards with every attack/defence, that would make a big difference too.
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I haven't seen why, but is there a special reason why you have high hopes for legend? Personally I'm not sure I have seen any streams with legend difficulty.
 
Alx1234 said:


​
There are 2 fundamental points of view that need to be pointed out here :

Chris plays console
Chuny plays PC

Having played console my mindset feels "boxed in", on PC with mod capability it is "horizon-like".

The guys who pre-order PES basically accept that what fun they get in the demo will be a true representation of what they will get from the full game - this could not be further from the truth.

The PC guys will preorder - and I cannot blame them because they have modding power - but ANYBODY who preorders is basically harming innovation in the PES series year after year.

The console guys who preorder knowing what they got last year - what are you doing?

You have a community here. IMO it should be using that community power to instil change for the future direction of PES. Yet, a lot of us fall/fell at the first hurdle.
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I think it will be fair to mention that it's quite obvious that the gameplay remains in the full game. You can see it in the streams.
 
Alx1234 said:
You're not getting it. Let me explain.

I want to eat from a 1st class restaurant on top of the Eiffel Tower.

You want to eat McDonalds.
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Unfair comparison really.
I get where you're going with this.
PES on PC will always achieve bigger tasks and look the way a football game is supposed to look, if money, monster companies and licenses didn't exist. But you're just diminishing his taste when he has to be happy with what he gets. It's not his choice. Not everyone can have a powerful PC and update it every now and then to keep the latest game running all maxed out. Consoles have always been the safer choice.

And some people are only looking to feel like they're actually playing football when they pick either game. Some people aren't looking for the Champions League anthem, entrance tunnel or scoreboard.
 
Chuny said:
Unfair comparison really.
I get where you're going with this.
PES on PC will always achieve bigger tasks and look the way a football game is supposed to look, if money, monster companies and licenses didn't exist. But you're just diminishing his taste when he has to be happy with what he gets. It's not his choice. Not everyone can have a powerful PC and update it every now and then to keep the latest game running all maxed out. Consoles have always been the safer choice.

And some people are only looking to feel like they're actually playing football when they pick either game. Some people aren't looking for the Champions League anthem, entrance tunnel or scoreboard.
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To be fair my PC has a value of 150 Euro. Cheaper than a PS4 or Xbox One and i handle PES 2020 on Full Settings. So its more a matter of Opinion.
 
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