eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

[Schwarzenbeck]

I have to say I am getting a little frustrated with the game, after trying out different assist, shooting and difficulty settings (PA0/Regular, PA1 TP and SS) with not finding the right arrangement yet. Don't get me wrong, I love the ball physics, the passing, the pace, the little deft touches, the new cameras, the way it looks, but my main problem is chance creation, which is a similar situation to the discussion we had about the limited shot/scoring options.

It seems the closer you get to the box of the AI, the more confined the game gets. It's like @Chris Davies said earlier: you are hitting a wall. The game kind of forces you to play "handball": pass sideways, to the wings, back to the middle, sideways, to the other wing, back to the middle in a sort of semi-circle. Once you commit, stick passes are blocked, crosses are cleared, when you try to dribble through you get stuck, most of the times by the "jackknife" animation of the AI. And should you ever have a clear shot, well, you got the super keepers...

There was this very early video of demo gameplay you all saw, where Suarez chipped the ball to Messi and he headed it into the open goal. In hundreds of matches now I've never had a comparable situation where I had the time and space to make such a conscious, deliberate move. It's all about quick decisions and often quite coincidential. I can't tell why in one situation it works or why I scored, while in the exact same situation it didn't. That makes it a bit soulless.

Certainly, given the class of the teams in the demo it might be realistic that their defence is hard to break down, but I wish there was a bit more fun in this, a bit more "game" rather than "realism". A few years ago someone would have told me "you need to train more" or "you are playing the game the wrong way" – and that might be the case – but I simply don't know what to change. It's like whenever I gain the ball and move forward, however quick I am, the AI has already positioned their men again to build this impenetrable mass. And I have to do the siege again.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

On another note: how the hell do you pull a decent cross on fuma using stadium cam? Is that even possible?

 

[rojofa]

On another note: how the hell do you pull a decent cross on fuma using stadium cam? Is that even possible?

This is the main reason I use a camera that stays parallel to the pitch (like Dynamic Wide), then you can use directly up/down as a reference point if you're level with the box and make small adjustments from there. I've never really been able to aim properly on cameras that rotate...

About crossing, here's an example of what I mentioned a few days ago about using a manual L1+cross "early cross" as a pass in other scenarios. Here I use it to switch play quicker than a normal long pass would be able to;

https://gfycat.com/wickedellipticalbluet

 

[yasujiro]

Certainly, given the class of the teams in the demo it might be realistic that their defence is hard to break down, but I wish there was a bit more fun in this, a bit more "game" rather than "realism". A few years ago someone would have told me "you need to train more" or "you are playing the game the wrong way" – and that might be the case – but I simply don't know what to change. It's like whenever I gain the ball and move forward, however quick I am, the AI has already positioned their men again to build this impenetrable mass. And I have to do the siege again.

The difficult to find spaces and create chances can be a consequence of the camera settings. It may also be due to the 5 minutes matches, when you score first the AI team increases his attack level, tries to tie and the defense is not so hard to beat. I can score 3 or 4 goals when I score in the first minutes of the match.

On another note: how the hell do you pull a decent cross on fuma using stadium cam? Is that even possible?

I use custom stadium cam 3-8-3, with these settings you can see more spaces when you are closer to the box and I have no problem pulling crosses.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Played a lot of Barca tonight. The better players really are different than, say Boca’s! Messi is lightning fast and very agile. Coutinho is very nice.
I need more time during matches. Really. Not far till release day.

 

[NikoLiberty4]

Regarding shooting animations, some of them used for finesse shots are awful, and detract a lot from the scoring experience. I hope they are gone next year.

But yeah, I can relate to these who say that scoring feels soul-less during this Fox Engine era.

 

[NIK778899]

Regarding shooting animations, some of them used for finesse shots are awful, and detract a lot from the scoring experience. I hope they are gone next year.

But yeah, I can relate to these who say that scoring feels soul-less during this Fox Engine era.

Agree. Probably my biggest problem with the game.

 

[tosser]

I have to say I am getting a little frustrated with the game, after trying out different assist, shooting and difficulty settings (PA0/Regular, PA1 TP and SS) with not finding the right arrangement yet. Don't get me wrong, I love the ball physics, the passing, the pace, the little deft touches, the new cameras, the way it looks, but my main problem is chance creation, which is a similar situation to the discussion we had about the limited shot/scoring options.

It seems the closer you get to the box of the AI, the more confined the game gets. It's like @Chris Davies said earlier: you are hitting a wall. The game kind of forces you to play "handball": pass sideways, to the wings, back to the middle, sideways, to the other wing, back to the middle in a sort of semi-circle. Once you commit, stick passes are blocked, crosses are cleared, when you try to dribble through you get stuck, most of the times by the "jackknife" animation of the AI. And should you ever have a clear shot, well, you got the super keepers...

This was one of my complaints with the last iteration. People say the pace is good but when you get to the final quarter of the pitch it becomes a scrappy hurried mess. Pass pass pass before you get climbed all over by opposition players. It would help if every team didn't set up with 25 defensive midfielders.

95% of goals become 'finishes' because there's rarely time or space to do anything else. I haven't seen much evidence of progression from the last game with this.

 

[Anderson_PES]

What's everyones opinion on the demo now that it's been out a couple of weeks? Do you think it is as good as when you first played it or has the honey moon period come to an end? I personally can't wait for the full game, and I just love the pace and physicality. And I think the AI plays with a decent amount of variation and it doesn't have any gamebreaking elements like previous years (spamming low crosses, scripted ping pong passes, only low shots etc etc).

Just hope Konami doesn't screw it up, which they probably will.

 

[hitmanuk]

What's everyones opinion on the demo now that it's been out a couple of weeks? Do you think it is as good as when you first played it or has the honey moon period come to an end? I personally can't wait for the full game, and I just love the pace and physicality. And I think the AI plays with a decent amount of variation and it doesn't have any gamebreaking elements like previous years (spamming low crosses, scripted ping pong passes, only low shots etc etc).

Just hope Konami doesn't screw it up, which they probably will.

my go to football game was 2017 and ive not touched it since 20s demo came out which tells me what I need to know. I'm looking forward to it but with work and family I will only play custom cups and won't have time for master league. Still can't win a penalty though, had one in like 50 games, AI has had a few including a couple of keeper tackles

 

[TheDIsSilentHilbilly]

This was one of my complaints with the last iteration. People say the pace is good but when you get to the final quarter of the pitch it becomes a scrappy hurried mess. Pass pass pass before you get climbed all over by opposition players. It would help if every team didn't set up with 25 defensive midfielders.

95% of goals become 'finishes' because there's rarely time or space to do anything else. I haven't seen much evidence of progression from the last game with this.

I'll be honest, to me, that sounds like watching a real football match. There's space until you get to the final third where it condenses and you have to manoeuvre the ball around to create an opening or crossing opportunity to "finish". When passing comes off it looks liquid, like watching Manchester City. But even if you look at their two goals against Tottenham, one comes from a first time cross with a back post header and the other is a low driven cross. Each start with passing moves.

I think my problem with the AI is something to do with your last paragraph. I want to be able to sell the AI at that point of shooting. If I fake shot in a position I should be shooting in, I want that slide block to still happen and watch them slide past me for an easier finish. Maybe I'm just not timing it right but they never seem to get "sold".

 

[tosser]

I'll be honest, to me, that sounds like watching a real football match. There's space until you get to the final third where it condenses and you have to manoeuvre the ball around to create an opening or crossing opportunity to "finish". When passing comes off it looks liquid, like watching Manchester City. But even if you look at their two goals against Tottenham, one comes from a first time cross with a back post header and the other is a low driven cross. Each start with passing moves.

Yeah it probably does describe certain matches, but in PES nearly every match is like this. A few wide open matches wouldn't go amiss. You also see defenders occasionally standing off and letting the keeper deal with the shot which I don't see in PES. Take the Neves goal the other day, Man United were defending doggedly at the time but Neves still had time to get the ball out of his feet and take a finesse shot. Goals like that should be commonplace. Haven't played too much of the demo but it was next to impossible in the last game.

I think my problem with the AI is something to do with your last paragraph. I want to be able to sell the AI at that point of shooting. If I fake shot in a position I should be shooting in, I want that slide block to still happen and watch them slide past me for an easier finish. Maybe I'm just not timing it right but they never seem to get "sold".

i've mentioned this many times in the past, the AI react to your button press, not what your player does so they are usually a step ahead hence the miracle blocks, lack of penalties and wrong footing etc. It's AI cheating of the highest order and needs to be banished

 

[Stan]

Sorry guys, but im confused here. You can replicate licensed kits, but you cant replicate stadium?
Im not trying to kick up here, just trying to understand.
Editor has blocks, pieces.
Its like Lego, or... I dont know... a piano. You can build or create anything on it. Its an editor... Do you not think that sharing it online, if it resembles real stadiums, should be a breach, rather than having an editor and creating stadiums for your own save slots?

Should Konami not be like Barry from music shop and say - "I dont know, I just sold him a piano. He created Beethoven and started sharing it online. Talk to him."

Completely agree with that post.
And about Konami and the editing.
The absence of licenses will always be a major handicap for PES.
Of course there is the briljant eiditing community that Konami could use like NBA2K does, but for them it's easier because they have the license.

One could even think about a new game mode for the editors.
You create your own team, kits, stadium and all the players with their attributes.
And then one can start ML online with all these teams.
To make it more challenging every team's squad should have an average rating (75 for example).
This might be a very fun game mode and it would give a boost tofind newe people who are editing things.
Like Cruyff said: every disadvantage is and advantage (ieder nadeel heb zijn voordeel).

 

[MadmaxG79]

I must admit, I sometimes feel like I must be playing a different game than some of you... I simply don't see the lack of shooting variety that a lot of you have mentioned. I played two hours last night and saw all kinds of different shots. I also created a couple of open chances, some of which I scored on

I still have a lot to learn like finesse shots - I got pretty good at them in the old days (pre 2016) but am having a hard time getting it work now.

I find the critique of OP/superhuman/godlike keepers a little amusing. Especially because the last time I was active in these parts of the webz everyone was giving Konami a hard time about the keepers not being good enough and not having enough animations. Now they're too good and have too many animations? I can't keep up. All I know is, I think they're just fine the way they are and don't take anything away from my enjoyment. Just last night I scored a nice goal with a Sao Paolo attacker who lifted the shot slightly over a side diving keeper. Looked ace. Also did my first chip shot over an out rushing keeper (in 2020) and it looked really cool. I especially like how L1 chipped shots aren't as floaty as they were back in the PS2 days. Feels and looks much more natural now to me than it did back then.

I do agree that it is slightly annoying that the ball always bounces out of the net after a goal. But to be honest, I don't think I would have ever noticed if it weren't for the posts on here. When other peoples opinion of a game I'm enjoying start to lessen my own enjoyment, it's probably time to take a break from the forums

I also agree that the immersion factor still leaves a lot to be desired and the feeling of scoring a goal isn't quite at the same peak as it was back in the good 'ol days. However, I've slightly compensated for this by turning everything down a couple notches except the crowd noises in the sound settings and using @PRO_TOO's trick of playing chants from Spotify during the match (I'm on PS4). It's pretty easy to use when you have your cell phone controlling the music/chants. Definitely a nice work around for the missing chants option from the PS3 - Thanks for the tip!

One last thing: I must admit I disagree with people on here saying that PA0 is the only way to go or "I don't understand people can enjoy the game on anything OTHER than PA0..." I personally don't enjoy PA0 at all. I find that more often than not the ball won't go to the intended target receiver, even though the player hits it in the right direction and with the perfect amount of power - leading me to have to press super cancel or use R3 just to select the right receiver. I find it annoying and it ruins my immersion in the gameplay. I greatly prefer PA1. Sure, it could be less assisted but it's much more enjoyable, to me, than PA0. I also can't play with advanced shooting or tb, because the whole target reticule thing seriously ruins the immersion for me and makes it feel even more like a video game and less like football. I'm glad we get the option to choose, because obviously: Different strokes for different folks

I'm still not sure if I'll preorder, because I know Konami might tweak a lot of things for the worse, but so far I really like the potential. But I'll probably wait a few days 'till I read a couple of reviews of full game vs. demo. My focus is on the gameplay aspect. I play primarily offline, national teams in cups so I'm not really bothered with how many changes and what not they make to the ML. I mean, I will most definitely be starting a ML, but even if nothing changes to the ML setup compared to 10 years ago, I will still enjoy it if the gameplay is as good as in the demo. I don't need the video game to spell out the narrative for me, my mind can fill in the gaps and make a perfectly good story line to why events unfold as they do on the pitch. Just like it did in the old days - where I used to spend a couple of days editing every single player in the game based of an Excel sheet with edited stats by the community. And you think they haven't improved in regards to licenses? Man, they have come a looooong way. And I'd still play it over the other game, even if that other game had every single players name, boot color and haircut spot on. It's all about the gameplay for me. Always has been, always will be.

I'll let myself out

 

[martyl2]

What's everyones opinion on the demo now that it's been out a couple of weeks? Do you think it is as good as when you first played it or has the honey moon period come to an end? I personally can't wait for the full game, and I just love the pace and physicality. And I think the AI plays with a decent amount of variation and it doesn't have any gamebreaking elements like previous years (spamming low crosses, scripted ping pong passes, only low shots etc etc).

Just hope Konami doesn't screw it up, which they probably will.

Having played around 20 games so far I can see it's a lot better than PES 17,18 (never played 19 as bought FIFA 19 instead) 6 months down the line, I don't know if I will be playing it. There doesn't seem to be longetivity in modern football games at least in comparison to the golden era. Perhaps Euro 2020 DLC will freshen it up a little.

What do you think?

 

[orangebard]

@MadmaxG79 You know you can turn the reticles off, if you like the 'advanced' controls.

 

[Emroth]

I'll let myself out

No need for that!
Everyone finds, or trying to find, their football fix different ways. If its PA1, PA0 or PA3 - makes no odds, once end result is that you're happy out.
Discussion/tips/arguments usually come along when someone dont enjoy it, regardless of settings and thats where you usually get "i wouldnt enjoy anything else than..." posts. But in most cases this will be trying to help the "Seekers of joy".

I agree with some previous posts that, once you miss your "spot" for quick counter - its getting very crowded around penalty box.
There is not many shooting chances. But I like it this way. In Pes19 I had a handful of matches that ended up 0-0. EVERY match had to be drama, every god damn match felt like losing teams families will be executed.
Now finally I can just play a normal match.
It doesnt feel fake, forced, or scripted.

Going back few months ago, I had small simple wish list for 20
- Division 2's(!!!)
- fix the AI
- loose the fake/cheated feeling
- give me (and AI) more shot variety
- more physicality
- let me see AI dribble
By the looks of it I got it all and a bit more.
So, provided it will stay close to demo - I should be happy.

@Rodchenko - i dont really have any issues with manual crosses on stadium cam, but how do I do it? Honestly dont know, as its all a bit automatic. Yesterday I had a lovely goal, I skill dribbled pass some bloke (and Im still just randomly moving sticks, so nice tricks are more of a surprise to me than to AI), crossed into a box, had a lovely header and keeper parried it into top of the net.
Even wanted to put it onto GOTM thread, but pressed the wrong button, came out, pressed again... and it only recorded 4 seconds of my celebration.

 

[Madmac79]

Going back few months ago, I had small simple wish list for 20
- Division 2's(!!!)
- fix the AI
- loose the fake/cheated feeling
- give me (and AI) more shot variety
- more physicality
- let me see AI dribble
By the looks of it I got it all and a bit more.
So, provided it will stay close to demo - I should be happy.

Completely agree.

Especially about AI.. sometimes I think we kinda have unrealistic expectations. Until an year ago we had a CPU that used to just pass, pass and pass, and used to search always the same goals. I mean, the improvements compared to that are tangibles. AI still has a lot of problems but feels human in a lot of occasions and does have a lot more variety.
Then it's in your right to ask for more, mind you, but to think a game in the state of 2019 would completely turn around in a single edition in so many fundamentals.. eh, not gonna happen.

Personally I'd be content to still retain the demo feel overall and to have a bit of more aggressive CPU. I still believe with custom tactics the game could improve even further.

 

[xPJRx]

Cups?

I haven't been playing it for a couple of years, but you don't see Cups in Football Manager (the most immersive game i know), same for the stadiums.

FM is hardly comparable. What if you didn't see any visible trophy when you win the superbowl in Madden? or No Stanley cup trophy in NHL, or or NBA Playoff trophy in 2k's NBA game?? It would never happen because those devs pay attention and actually put the trophy into the game, its a basic.

PES used to have on pitch medal ceremonies, ticker tape laps of honour, cup presentation, so there is no excuse at all for not having it, why remove it? yet another facet of the game needlessly stripped away over the years

The stadium editor: what i've heard is that Konami removed the stadium editor because they feared that EA would see that as circumventing the exclusive licenses they have and could have taken legal action. Very understandable imo.

Rubbish. Konami would not/was not providing any likeness to any licensed or copyright material within the game, or hosting any such content. They were merely giving the tools to users to create something of your own free will, the fact that you could create a stadium which remotely resembles a real one, ie 4 sided stands, a football pitch and floodlights is NOT a breach of copyright law, and as someone who has a qualification in contract law, I can tell you this was not the case.

Look at 2K's customisation ops in their WWE game, they give you the tools to create wrestlers use copyrighted logos, arenas, rings the lot, even music. That's never been a problem for them.

The actual truth is that they started to switch over to a new engine post 2013, and just did not bother recreating the assets again in the new engine, and have never bothered since.

 

[janguv]

Sorry guys, but im confused here. You can replicate licensed kits, but you cant replicate stadium?
Im not trying to kick up here, just trying to understand.
Editor has blocks, pieces.
Its like Lego, or... I dont know... a piano. You can build or create anything on it. Its an editor... Do you not think that sharing it online, if it resembles real stadiums, should be a breach, rather than having an editor and creating stadiums for your own save slots?

Should Konami not be like Barry from music shop and say - "I dont know, I just sold him a piano. He created Beethoven and started sharing it online. Talk to him."

The point (and I'm sorry if others have already clarified this) is that what you can replicate in-game is different in these cases. When you flash an option file, you're uploading images into empty slots. Konami has no ownership of those images, and didn't facilitate you in getting hold of them. When you have a stadium editor or a logo editor, where all the parts are there but you've just got to put them together like a jigsaw, then Konami themselves effectively (and illegally) claim ownership of the resultant images.

That's the way this has gone, anyway, and it does seem largely due to EA pushing things in that direction with lawsuits. But it's not that crazy to imagine this being part of copyright law. Imagine a puzzle game (a kind of virtual jigsaw) which took copyrighted images, cut them up into virtual pieces, and only ever stored on its digital media storage the separate image files of the pieces. But to win any of the puzzles in the games, the user arranges the pieces so that the resultant image is the copyrighted one. That would in most jurisdictions surely constitute a violation of copyright for the game publisher/developer, and wouldn't be excused on account of their not using any whole composite image as an asset in the game.

The stadium/logo editor is much the same, or at least it edges close enough to this analogy to warrant a legal/copyright issue that Konami are steering well clear of.

 

[xPJRx]

Maybe so but should we glorify and hype Konami up for actually making an effort one year out of the last 8 ?
Every year, for offline players mostly, features have been stripped out of the game, even edit mode itself back in 2015, yet we all, as loyal PES fans continue to buy the game, some of us on multiple formats, so the fact that this year they have actually done some work is at very minimum, expected.

As a paying customer who has bought several copies of the game every year, and as someone who invests my own time and effort and money into providing free resources for the game to fans, to make Konami's game better, I feel totally justified in my criticisms, providing the full release hasn't been watered down so much and it still plays like the demo, then this may be the first year for many that I don't feel totally ripped off.

And are you seriously suggesting Konami inverting the colours on the logo as the game boots up is 'proving a point' ???

Konami have shown interest and progressed in areas that hadn't been touched for the past 5 to 7 years. And I think some of you are being unfair this time.

They even changed the "KONAMI" screen at the beginning. It used to be a white screen with red text for many many years. This year it's the opposite.

To me, it's clear that Konami wanted to prove something with PES 2020.

 

[fefepes]

seriously? they even changed the konami screen?!

 

[xPJRx]

Seriously? You're overdoing it here, pinning it on the Japanese viewpoint. Isn't EA the same, being a westerner? Don't they cater only to the online crowd too? EA is even more microtransaction based, let's not do this Japanese and Western comparison thing.

EA is a western company, being based in Canada, and have a number of british and european guys working in the FIFA dev team.

Its there clear for all to see how the Japanglish doesnt translate well in the game, 2013's attempt at japanese RPG elements with boots and water bottles that gave you super powered shots, recent PES titles where fans give players ridiculous nicknames, and CDM's are expected to score every game??

No one who understands football would put this kinda stuff into a game

 

[Lons]

Pes 2020 is great game as well. Finally they come back in technically aspects. Animations,physics and visual (graphics) looks stuning. They needed 10 years to create game like west developers. Long time but finally very big success.

 

[fefepes]

great game? success?

its not even been released yet

 

[Lons]

great game? success?

its not even been released yet

Demo.

 

[martyl2]

Wonder how much the ML is actually enhanced?

Probably more superficial BS

 

[fefepes]

Demo.

demos always great. released game always terrible

 

[Schwarzenbeck]

EA is a western company, being based in Canada, and have a number of british and european guys working in the FIFA dev team.

Its there clear for all to see how the Japanglish doesnt translate well in the game, 2013's attempt at japanese RPG elements with boots and water bottles that gave you super powered shots, recent PES titles where fans give players ridiculous nicknames, and CDM's are expected to score every game??

No one who understands football would put this kinda stuff into a game

Boris Becker was called "Boom Boom Becker" even here in Germany, but that actually made sense. This is just wrong.

Last year the "Bello di Notte" call name (Pogba, I believe) was cringeworthy.

 

[Chris Davies]

Boris Becker was called "Boom Boom Becker" even here in Germany, but that actually made sense. This is just wrong.

Last year the "Bello di Notte" call name (Pogba, I believe) was cringeworthy.

If we're going to go down this route - this is the chairman of Inter...

 

[Chuny]

Maybe so but should we glorify and hype Konami up for actually making an effort one year out of the last 8 ?
Every year, for offline players mostly, features have been stripped out of the game, even edit mode itself back in 2015, yet we all, as loyal PES fans continue to buy the game, some of us on multiple formats, so the fact that this year they have actually done some work is at very minimum, expected.

As a paying customer who has bought several copies of the game every year, and as someone who invests my own time and effort and money into providing free resources for the game to fans, to make Konami's game better, I feel totally justified in my criticisms, providing the full release hasn't been watered down so much and it still plays like the demo, then this may be the first year for many that I don't feel totally ripped off.

And are you seriously suggesting Konami inverting the colours on the logo as the game boots up is 'proving a point' ???

You didn't get the point about the screen colors.
I made some very interesting points in my post and yet somehow, some people decided that the bit with the screen colors change was the most important one of my post. Weird...