eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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OBH said:
That's not an unreasonable demand at all. Variety in all aspects is welcomed.

All I'm saying that the number of fouls in a game should be determined by how many ACTUAL fouls there are. The idea that "3/5 fouls per game is the average so let's aim for that" literally doesn't matter in the slightest because you can have the perfect number of fouls, but if they all look like that clip I've shared then what's the point?
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You see, I fully agree with you, but that's a critic that should be directed to Konami. Because they are the ones "forcing" us to have this mentality.

I don't think indeed there really is people advocating for wrong collisions to be fouls just for the sake of it. We are just afraid that they'll cull all fouls no matter what. So if the trade off that, again, Konami force us to accept, is to have normal fouls (because there are) togheter with those, we'll sadly take it. Because we played many games of both sagas virtually without free kicks at all and in the end, again, for many of us a warped but still active fouls system it's the lesser evil by a great margin.

Then if they tweak the game in a way in which there is a normal number of contextual fouls and no, or very few inexistent ones, great! I'm not asking any better.

It's just that it's really, VERY hard to trust them on this.
 
Chuny said:
What I'm trying to show there is that the AI systematically, automatically, always look for the CF or the winger.
They usually don't try to build up the play.
I remember my first post regarding the demo was exactly about this. And even though I got around to really liking it, and even thinking it was probably the best PES game in a very long time, I still find it somewhat frustrating that the AI has 3 or even 4 players standing absolutely alone in the middle of the pitch, yet the player on the ball stubbornly keeps running to one of the sides just to pass it to the man on the wing, because that's what he's been coded to do: GO TO POINT A AND PASS THE BALL TO POINT B.

It even looks kind of weird, because when you are paying in the midfield (and that's where I play in real life) you usually try to find the free man quickly, you don't want to keep the ball for too long, because if you lose it there, you'll have problems. Yet this player just runs to the sideline, when there was no clear pass to be executed there. Why? Because he "knew" the clear pass would be produced. He "knew" the winger would go to point B so he could pass the ball there even though there were better options earlier on, down the centre of the pitch.

If this was just a sporadic scenario I wouldn't be standing here saying this. But I've noticed it far too many times, and upon talking to other people about it I realised, it's not just me.
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I wonder what happens when you try to prevent this behaviour tactically? Theoretically the CPU should be thrown off this tactic when you put your defenders on man marking and pull your midfielders back a bit to cut off the passing lanes, maybe play a bit more compact as well. I might test myself when i can find some playing time this weekend.
 
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PESV said:
Same here. Ive had only a few occasions of clear non-fouls called against me. Especially when you do not use X or R1, only LS and you coming from the sides or front and still get the foul against you, its the worst. But despite this, and even because of it, i love how it forces you to be cautious and adapt your playing style.

Because that is the tradeoff here. Or you get a inconsistent (read: realisticly infuriating at times) referee and the equally realistic defensive mindset that flows from it OR you get a more consistent but dumbed down ref and a more frantic defensive mindset that comes along with that. We all know what we would choose.

To be honest, i never got the whole "there are not enough fouls" argument, I always get around 2 fouls on avarage on PES2019 and thought more fouls would just be forcing this that arent there for the sake of it. However, i get it now. All this time i wished for Konami to promote and favor the football mindset more and i totally neglected that fouls are the key to do just that.

Sure, make it a bit more consistent and get rid of those really buggy fouls where the collision system fucks up because yes they make the whole system feel a bit broken. But stop right there.

I would almost say 'add more fouls' because i played a lot of games with Boca against Arsenal, Bayen, Manu etc on high attack level and was dispossesed by a instorming players on full sprint clearly walking over me where i was surprised and a little angry i did not get the foul.

But you know, that surprise and slight bitterness against the referee letting the star team come away with a clear foul against the underdog are exactly the kind of emotions that set stadia on fire. It adds something to the game that i did not know was missing.

When the ref seems against you, its the perfect opportunity to up your game and avoid defensive risks. And if you get dispossed in an unfair matter nothing feels better then double X that *bleep* and throw him on the ground before he gets away :-)

The exact opposite is true as well, matches when i felt the ref was clearly on my side. This is all part of the real game and thus should be part of PES. If they remove the clear bugs so that it feels less broken, sure thing, but it would be really hard to swallow if in the patched game does not (so much) favor a cautious playing style anymore and/or looses the potential to disagree and be surprised.
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Thanks! Good read.

Time to go to bed. Night.

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PESV said:
I wonder what happens when you try to prevent this behaviour tactically? Theoretically the CPU should be thrown off this tactic when you let you put your defenders on man marking, and pull your midfielders back a bit to cut off the passing lanes, maybe play a bit more compact as well. I might test myself when i can find some playing time this weekend.
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That’s the mindset I like! :APPLAUD:

Edit: before i forget. What about animations for the set piece taker when we choose a tactic?! 2 arms up?! One arm up?! Some baseball like head scratch?! :D
 
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OBH said:
.............

All I'm saying that the number of fouls in a game should be determined by how many ACTUAL fouls there are ....
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Exactly. Fouls/collision system should be PERFECT at this stage.

You hear me? PERFECT. No excuses.....unless of course there is some magic (ie. stat/script elements) that will come into play.

if I had a year left of current gen console, surely I'd be perfecting the game of its flaws (nonsense fouls, quality of interface/menus) and not switching controls around. doesn't make sense.
 
PESV said:
Same here. Ive had only a few occasions of clear non-fouls called against me. Especially when you do not use X or R1, only LS and you coming from the sides or front and still get the foul against you, its the worst. But despite this, and even because of it, i love how it forces you to be cautious and adapt your playing style.

Because that is the tradeoff here. Or you get a inconsistent (read: realisticly infuriating at times) referee and the equally realistic defensive mindset that flows from it OR you get a more consistent but dumbed down ref and a more frantic defensive mindset that comes along with that. We all know what we would choose.

To be honest, i never got the whole "there are not enough fouls" argument, I always get around 2 fouls on avarage on PES2019 and thought more fouls would just be forcing this that arent there for the sake of it. However, i get it now. All this time i wished for Konami to promote and favor the football mindset more and i totally neglected that fouls are the key to do just that.

Sure, make it a bit more consistent and get rid of those really buggy fouls where the collision system fucks up because yes they make the whole system feel a bit broken. But stop right there.

I would almost say 'add more fouls' because i played a lot of games with Boca against Arsenal, Bayen, Manu etc on high attack level and was dispossesed by a instorming players on full sprint clearly walking over me where i was surprised and a little angry i did not get the foul.

But you know, that surprise and slight bitterness against the referee letting the star team come away with a clear foul against the underdog are exactly the kind of emotions that set stadia on fire. It adds something to the game that i did not know was missing.

When the ref seems against you, its the perfect opportunity to up your game and avoid defensive risks. And if you get dispossed in an unfair matter nothing feels better then double X that *bleep* and throw him on the ground before he gets away :-)

The exact opposite is true as well, matches when i felt the ref was clearly on my side. This is all part of the real game and thus should be part of PES. If they remove the clear bugs so that it feels less broken, sure thing, but it would be really hard to swallow if in the patched game does not (so much) favor a cautious playing style anymore and/or looses the potential to disagree and be surprised.
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You understand the philosophy of the game and also the unpredictability of football..

A great read...
 
PESV said:
I wonder what happens when you try to prevent this behaviour tactically? Theoretically the CPU should be thrown off this tactic when you put your defenders on man marking and pull your midfielders back a bit to cut off the passing lanes, maybe play a bit more compact as well. I might test myself when i can find some playing time this weekend.
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We'll find out in exactly one month.
Because if they don't screw up what they've accomplished, I'm sure stats will matter more than any other year.
So maybe by reducing certain skills or abilities, we might find some middle ground here.
 
I really hope they don't change the core gameplay too much before full release. The demo is full of promise. Always a good sign when you keep thinking the matches are way too short.

Sure, the refs are a bit too trigger happy on giving fouls against you, and the goalkeeping animations are still a bit stale and weird, but this feels like a proper pes game, and it looks better than it ever has! Finally, the graphics are spot on. Just don't change too much before full release! :)
 
I've gotten called a lot of fouls against me in the first 10 or so matches of the demo, but that was because I kept pressing the x-Button like a maniac as I was used to from last year. This time it's really much more about positioning and closing down passing lanes and that – like the R2 to right stick thing – requires some rewiring of muscle memory.

Now, I am fine with the number of fouls per match, albeit not necessarily with the calls themselves. It's funny that Konami always triggers these pesky replays of standing tackles to presumably 'prove' the call, but then you see 9 out of 10 times that your player played the ball first and wonder where the actual foul took place.

And what about hand balls, btw? Are they even in there? Endless controversial discussions about when a hand ball should be called last season, at least in Bundesliga.
 
Rodchenko said:
I've gotten called a lot of fouls against me in the first 10 or so matches of the demo, but that was because I kept pressing the x-Button like a maniac as I was used to from last year. This time it's really much more about positioning and closing down passing lanes and that – like the R2 to right stick thing – requires some rewiring of muscle memory.

Now, I am fine with the number of fouls per match, albeit not necessarily with the calls themselves. It's funny that Konami always triggers these pesky replays of standing tackles to presumably 'prove' the call, but then you see 9 out of 10 times that your player played the ball first and wonder where the actual foul took place.

And what about hand balls, btw? Are they even in there? Endless controversial discussions about when a hand ball should be called last season, at least in Bundesliga.
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Handballs aren't in PES, at least in the last few years.
 
Madmac79 said:
Look. I think we are making this fouls discussion much more complicated than it really is.

We had recent chapters of the saga which ticked the fixed number of 1-2 fouls (sometimes not even those) per game with an impressive regularity. Many of us would just like to have a bit more. Not always, not every single game. But to have an aggressive defender butcher you down, or a losing team tackle you aggressively without necessarly being a rival every so often.

Just stuff like this. I don't think it's a particularly unreasonable demand.
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This. They don't need to reduce the fouls just improve the hit detection or what :D But the main reason we rarely had any in past games was because the AI tackling around the box was picture perfect in top player or above. (Also the ref was keen on overlooking some in favor for the AI)
 
PESMaster01 said:
Handballs aren't in PES, at least in the last few years.
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Yes, thought so. Ironically, they've added the arms behind the back defensive animation when they're in the box (which is quite cool). Being very picky, though, one could ask why they need to hide their hands when there is no handball in the first place.
 
Rodchenko said:
Yes, thought so. Ironically, they've added the arms behind the back defensive animation when they're in the box (which is quite cool). Being very picky, though, one could ask why they need to hide their hands when there is no handball in the first place.
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because the "ball in the groin"-animation brings more excitement when they have the hands behind their back! :LOL:

;))
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I'm not capable of doing 2 things when playing FuMa:

1. Low shots (using the shot button, of course);
2. Through ball (L1 + Triangle) / cross (In my case, Square) that rises slowly and, when it touches the pitch, the ball goes backwards. I'm sorry for the bad explanation. Kroos, de Jong do this passes in real life.

BUT:

1. Headers are perfect. This year seems that they're REALLY contextual.
2. I've seen variety from through ball as if it were in basic mode.
3. Shots in general seems good and contextual, but I think that they are way too strong pretty much every time.

Could somebody help me? Thanks.
 
ianni said:
I'm not capable of doing 2 things when playing FuMa:

1. Low shots (using the shot button, of course);
2. Through ball (L1 + Triangle) / cross (In my case, Square) that rises slowly and, when it touches the pitch, the ball goes backwards. I'm sorry for the bad explanation. Kroos, de Jong do this passes in real life.

BUT:

1. Headers are perfect. This year seems that they're REALLY contextual.
2. I've seen variety from through ball as if it were in basic mode.
3. Shots in general seems good and contextual, but I think that they are way too strong pretty much every time.

Could somebody help me? Thanks.
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1. just press the power button less! and it looks so wonderfull!
2. try using modifier. L1 lowers the cross, R2 makes it high/lob style. try using different power inputs!
 
Rodchenko said:
Yeah, there is a general inflation of ball-in-the-groin incidents. It’s the new back-heel pass ;)
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talking of back heels.... man, they are not as present as before. in fact, i cant remember when i saw the last one that got on my nerv. i see that new nice animation with the sole of the foot, and that i like because it only happens from time to time and can look ace! :)
 
PRO_TOO said:
1. just press the power button less! and it looks so wonderfull!
2. try using modifier. L1 lowers the cross, R2 makes it high/lob style. try using different power inputs!
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They did nerf the crosses, in a good way, though. Early cross (L1 + circle) used to be too overpowered in 2019, now they toned it down a bit. I also have the feeling the AI is better in defending these, particularly low crosses.

Headers (one of the biggest gripes I had with 2019) I am not sold yet. Have the feeling I connect more (especially from corners) but they are mostly too floaty still.
 
Having played lots of matches i still have to experience the "ball to the groins animation". I play on manual, probably it's something that happens a lot more on assisted passing.

It also never happened to CPU while passing.
 
Ameppe said:
Having played lots of matches i still have to experience the "ball to the groins animation". I play on manual, probably it's something that happens a lot more on assisted passing.

It also never happened to CPU while passing.
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as you know, 100% fuma player here! i saw that animation a couple of times! when i noticed it i like to take spent some time in replay mode! :D
instead of crossing, try to hit em! hard and low! :LOL:
tenor.gif
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and if the opponent does surrender... give him a present! :LMAO:
giphy.gif

i am all for fair play!!!! i am just kidding here!!
play fair, lads (here and on the pitch)!!! :BEER:
 
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fregen said:
Maybe. :)

But seriously though, for me, it's this small space where I can relax for maybe an hour every other night so it has in a weird way become more "important" for me now than before.
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I know what you mean...Playability and the enjoyment factor..Everything feels so right.

Plays like a genuine progression but has all the elements of what made pes so good on the ps2.

Imo it’s a masterpiece.
 
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