eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

[Nacho10]

Could someone explain what this new inspire feature is & how it affects the game?

Have you read the Help bit on the tactics screen? It describes it in typically Konami Japanglish vagueness! Apparently it makes players make better(?) or different(??) runs depending on what star rating the player you control has... and that's about all it says!

I mean the Dribble Thru one, does that mean players get out of the way or create space? No idea! Even the stat distribution is dubious for it, standard Messi pass IRL - long high chipped diagonal ball to Alba - Messi must have 2 stars in the long pass Inspire category surely... nope 1 star. De Arrascaeta of Flamengo doesn't have any Inspire skill at all which is pretty odd for a playmaker you'd think!?

It looks like another underlying system competing with all the other underlying systems in the game

 

[yasujiro]

Hmmmm, I guess I´m pretty much done with the demo.

I like the game....I really do.
But I´m switching cams cause of manual play.
I don´t know how you guys are dealing with this....lol.

Stadium cam looks lovely, but no matter what settings I use....diagonal passes and shoots aren´t going where I want them to. I can´t enjoy it like this.
I don´t really wanna change the feeling on the stick (god....that must sound awkward), like change my whole manual feeling.

Guess I´ll wait for a cam mod for sider for the dynamic wide cam in the full release.

Fingers crossed...

I had the same aiming problems with Stadium cam. Now I'm using Stadium cam with Zoom 3 Height 8 Angle 3 and everything feels better.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Hmmmm, I guess I´m pretty much done with the demo.

I like the game....I really do.
But I´m switching cams cause of manual play.
I don´t know how you guys are dealing with this....lol.

Stadium cam looks lovely, but no matter what settings I use....diagonal passes and shoots aren´t going where I want them to. I can´t enjoy it like this.
I don´t really wanna change the feeling on the stick (god....that must sound awkward), like change my whole manual feeling.

Guess I´ll wait for a cam mod for sider for the dynamic wide cam in the full release.

Fingers crossed...

hm... i dont like to read that. wished you had the same fun as me. i came from fuma, i stayed with fuma, and now i have to learn and adjust again... to fuma!
i do missplace passes (maybe 2-4 out of 10) but it never got me thinking of quitting manual or changing the cam back to the one i used before. i tried the regular dyn. wide when i started playing the demo. i felt the gameplay enhancements and switched back to the new stadium cam after some 4-6 matches.

now, after some days playing the 2020 demo on a daily basis, i will never go back. i zoomed in 2 notches to have players on top of the screen look a little bigger, but thats it. i really like how the new camera transports that tv-like vibe!
L.O.V.E. it!!!!

 

[OBH]

But why is this happening to you and not to me?..I’ve put plenty of examples of games I’ve captured where I’m tight defensively and am giving barely any fouls away,if any at all.

I’m not in denial..I just don’t think this is a big issue as you and many others state..

Football games in recent years have just made many lazy and inpatient in my opinion.To much hand holding with predictable gameplay and outcomes.

So what if you’ve shared videos? There are also plenty of videos from others showing fouls for nothing more than breathing in the same air as the opposition. Or amazing slide tackles resulting in red cards and penalties.

And I don’t agree with too much hand holding in football games at all. Fifa continues to ruin its gameplay by moving further away from what made it good by introducing more and more ridiculous controls (threaded through ball is such a shit idea for so many reasons), and PES has more controls now than it ever has done.

As I’ve said a couple of times already, I’m not saying you’re wrong whatsoever. If you’re happy with the fouls, that’s excellent. But just because you think it’s correct doesn’t mean others are wrong if they believe fouls should be lenient. That’s literally the only point I’m trying to make - that what makes a good football game isn’t the same to everyone, and pleasing everyone is impossible.

 

[PESBUL]

Konami never listens to fans feedback, they are just pretending to do it.

Nobody asks Konami to screw up-close control from R2 and to put it with a silly name the right stick. Or defender to feel way less intuitive, to be more tied to AI decision what will eventually happen. No stats base, no player base, its all AI base.

 

[Isslander]

Hmmmm, I guess I´m pretty much done with the demo.

I like the game....I really do.
But I´m switching cams cause of manual play.
I don´t know how you guys are dealing with this....lol.

Stadium cam looks lovely, but no matter what settings I use....diagonal passes and shoots aren´t going where I want them to. I can´t enjoy it like this.
I don´t really wanna change the feeling on the stick (god....that must sound awkward), like change my whole manual feeling.

Guess I´ll wait for a cam mod for sider for the dynamic wide cam in the full release.

Fingers crossed...

I don't really get what the problem is, why can't you just switch to a different camera if stadium is not doing it for you?

 

[Marlon Anthony]

Back in the ps2 era there was no fan feedback,no expectation.We adhered and learned to adapt to the product that we were given.Willing to discover the games nuances and hidden subtleties that only came to the fore when you became totally in-tune with the game.

That's because there wasn't social media and wasn't really an easy way for the average consumer to pass feedback over to Konami. Coupled with the language barrier with consumers around the world, Konami just had a vision for their games and committed to it, Like true artists. They had balls to take risks and be honest with themselves that "this simulation direction might not be to everybody's taste, But it's our game, our art and our love letter."

Can you imagine if David Bowie didn't release half his music because he listened to feedback of common people calling him "weird" and telling him to just "stick to 3 minute love songs, they sell!" If creators didn't dare to experiment than art would be very boring.

You'll never make everyone happy. That's why many of us think they shouldn't listen to fans for any small thing and stick more to what they believe it's best.

If you gave everyone an envelope with £10 in it, for nothing, unconditionally - People would still complain and say "Why can't there be £20 in here?"

Guys, I have a question. Sure ...You remember PES 2017 and amazing goals with no-move goalkeeper like during Henry´s shot here at the time 0:45

There was some pretty nice goalkeeper animations in there, that i don't even recall seeing in 2019... But i agree, A static "frozen to the spot" animation for keepers would be cool but it's hard to contextualize it in a football game because even though you want realism, You also want to feel like your keeper did everything in their power to prevent the goal & not freeze to the spot and watch the ball go in because the game decides for the sake of variety, this will be the designated animation.

Unless the shooting is algorithm based and the game knows that as soon as it leaves the players boot that this is not only going in; But it's being threaded through the eye of a needle and there is not a keeper on this earth saving this so it would be ethically acceptable to run this animation for the keeper...

Which tends to happen on assisted settings which is why there's none of that organic euphoria when you score half the time. It doesn't feel like you've worked for that goal like it does on manual - That you just hit shoot and a slot machine either matches 3 symbols under the hood and your guaranteed a goal or else you just hit to insert another quarter for another attempt for a payout another time.

 

[Lami]

That fact is that football is an incredibly divisive sport anyway. What you might consider to be a foul or a great goal, won't be the same as someone else.

If you're talking bout real life, fouls isn't that much up for opinion as great goals are. They're more obvious and straight forward. If some fans want to overlook fouls, it's because of bias.

Not everyone's idea of fun is listening to ref blow his whistle every 5 seconds

Except this doesn't happen.

that doesn't escape from the fact that 9/10 that you give away are no fouls at all.

What you're saying isn't true at all. It's not a fact. I've played many games, consecutive ones, where I've had zero fouls. Matches ended with zero fouls, for both me and AI. And I was complaining about the lack of fouls in my head. How do you explain that?

 

[Daisuk]

I had completely forgotten about FIFA and PES for a couple of months, but thought to myself today that I wanted to check when the demos were out. And obviously PES was already out!

Downloaded it and have played a few matches now, and can honestly say that this is the first PES in years that I've actually really enjoyed playing. It's a first impression, of course, but ... yes, enjoyable!

I have on purpose not read anything in this thread as I don't want my opinion colored by other people's opinions, just wanted to chime in and say that I like it so far, haha.

 

[Chuny]

Konami never listens to fans feedback, they are just pretending to do it.

Nobody asks Konami to screw up-close control from R2 and to put it with a silly name the right stick. Or defender to feel way less intuitive, to be more tied to AI decision what will eventually happen. No stats base, no player base, its all AI base.

Slower pace.
Shooting variety.
Shooting error.
Passing error.
Individuality.
No catch-up bug.


I think they listen.
Probably not to every single word you and I have to say.

 

[Chilleverest]

I had completely forgotten about FIFA and PES for a couple of months, but thought to myself today that I wanted to check when the demos were out. And obviously PES was already out!

Downloaded it and have played a few matches now, and can honestly say that this is the first PES in years that I've actually really enjoyed playing. It's a first impression, of course, but ... yes, enjoyable!

I have on purpose not read anything in this thread as I don't want my opinion colored by other people's opinions, just wanted to chime in and say that I like it so far, haha.

The veterans here who are not that easy to please and come from retro pes background seem to approve of 2020. Its safe to say that its a solid attempt by konami this year.

 

[DigitalByDesign]

OBH..I can see the inconsistencies..Never about being right or wrong..More interpretation.

Didn’t mean to rattle you or appear argumentative..There’s validity to your point which your free to post and I never stated I’m the oracle or my views are right over anyone else’s.

It’s my slant based on expectations and a open minded approach.I try to add value nothing else.

Something representative of what we have now has been along time in coming for me..Maybe it’s exceeded my expectations and hits the criteria of what I want in a next level football game interms of gameplay.

I remember 12 years ago and prior to that how I arresting and enjoyable football games used to be..For me that’s finally back(who wouldn’t want to celebrate that)..

The boys in Tokyo are now for me finally on level terms with tech and there understanding of it and how to use it.The future’s looking very bright as is Pes2020 and I can’t wait to see what they do with unreal..Theres little doubt in my mind they have the Fox engine singing this year.

You can see clearly how they’ve built on the foundations of the last three and that we now have a clearer vision of the potential of pes going forward.

Is it the perfect storm..maybe!

 

[Lami]

Yes and no.

This is on Superstar.


That doesn't seem too human to me.
It feels.... predetermined.

I'm not quite sure what you're showing there. The player was passing to someone who's perfectly open to a pass, taking advantage of free space. What's the point in passing the ball to midfield, just to waste that better chance that opened upfront? In real life, players pass the ball around looking for an opening. The openings in that video have presented themselves many times.

Imagine in real life I'm a right back and I see my winger in acres of space right in front of me, you think I'll completely ignore him and pass it to my midfielders just because build up play? I'd be told off to no end by my teammates.

You got to close them spaces and lanes mate. You'll see them stop and pass it back or sideways.

 

[rojofa]

People online (especially on PA1-3) can easily play that "no build-up" style as well though. The problem is with the braindead defensive AI.

You can only control one player at a time - maybe extending that to 2 or 3 if you include the ones that will press if you hold or double tap+hold X/Square. The rest of the players almost completely ignore the ball, opponents, passing lanes, overloads etc...

You can always do a better job of anticipating and positioning with super cancel, but there's only so much you can do when you're only in control of one of the eleven at a time.

Maybe some kind of custom tactics could go some way to improving it, but the default ones are horrendous.

 

[robbieryan]

 

[xPJRx]

Been reading the last few pages with interest, some really good points and arguments made.
With regards to the demo, OBH summarized it perfectly, foul logic needs tweaking to punish the AI more (AI needs to be a bit more aggressive too) and balance out the number of times it calls for a foul on the human player.

As it stands, physicality stats are null and void because you cant use a player with high strength to any avail as any physicality is just pulled up as a foul.
They need to balance this out but I have absolutely no doubt that Konami being Konami, they will do so by just removing 90% of all fouls, it's what they do every year, always catering first and foremost to the online player who prefers a non-stop, end to end 'flowing' game.

Of course everybody has different expectations/ideals of what a football game should be, as OBH said, some like nets, some like non-stop game play, some like faces, etc but the absolute overriding fact should be that if you are making a football video game simulation, then it should do everything possible to simulate the real game as closely as possible, which is NOT 100 mph non stop foul free matches, if you want that type of arcade style football then FIFA's Volta is your obvious choice.
And personally Id rather they started paying attention to the basics a bit more carefully and instead of scanning all these faces and tattoos which you don't even see in normal game play anyway, they start including essentials such as an actual visible trophy when you win the English league or Cup, instead of just a blank empty hole in the team photo where it should have been.

Imagine winning the Stanley cup in NHL and there's no cup, or the Superbowl in Madden and there's no Superbowl trophy, quite abysmal, and complete and utter lack of care and attention to the basics.

And the reason that the demo never bares any resemblance to what we get on release day is because Konami, or rather PES productions, do not have any clear long term vision or strategy.

PES 10 had a superb in-depth ML Mode with so much under the hood to do to keep you amused, then they completely changed the graphics, and mechanics for PES 11, which was a very good game, despite the bugs, PES 12 built on this and was a very good game, then PES13 completely changed direction once again, and introduced all those silly RPG elements like magic power up boots and water bottles, then they released the biggest unfinished mess that was PES 14, which was nothing like 13, PES 15 changed once again, PES 17 was back to fast arcade style football, PES 18 went back the other way.....
They just do NOT have a clear idea of what type of game they want to make, they know it has to be football but seem stuck in between a 'lets make it purely online focused so we can cash in on the MyClub coin posse' and 'We still need to do something offline because people still play ML'.

Until the day Konami introduce FIFA sryle sliders which let different crowds adjust the game to their own liking, then we will forever be having this discussion and will forever be served up a half-baked product.

 

[Marlon Anthony]

I'm not quite sure what you're showing there. The player was passing to someone who's perfectly open to a pass, taking advantage of free space. What's the point in passing the ball to midfield, just to waste that better chance that opened upfront? In real life, players pass the ball around looking for an opening. The openings in that video have presented themselves many times.

Imagine in real life I'm a right back and I see my winger in acres of space right in front of me, you think I'll completely ignore him and pass it to my midfielders just because build up play? I'd be told off to no end by my teammates.

You got to close them spaces and lanes mate. You'll see them stop and pass it back or sideways.

I have to agree, What i was watching was a an AI actually playing the first open pass you see, Which is the golden rule when you're on the ball. There were occasions where you circled a group of players, But there was also opposition players nearby meaning to pass into that area would present risk of interception or being pressured and dis-possessed - You'd look for a safer option.

Now, You could maybe argue wing play and passing down the flanks is too easy though, But i think this is more of a passing assistance issue more than anything. In the COM's case, They don't "play on manual" so it's more of an issue where more often than not they're going to complete successful laser guided passes and through balls down the flanks.

Honestly, I've played FUMA matches against humans online and wing play isn't anywhere near as effective or play isn't as end to end because naturally your slowing down and taking your time to perfect your passes and through balls and they still often get under/overhit, intercepted or go out of play balancing things out.

 

[Emroth]

Hmmmm, I guess I´m pretty much done with the demo.

I like the game....I really do.
But I´m switching cams cause of manual play.
I don´t know how you guys are dealing with this....lol.

Stadium cam looks lovely, but no matter what settings I use....diagonal passes and shoots aren´t going where I want them to. I can´t enjoy it like this.
I don´t really wanna change the feeling on the stick (god....that must sound awkward), like change my whole manual feeling.

Guess I´ll wait for a cam mod for sider for the dynamic wide cam in the full release.

Fingers crossed...

Spoony released some clip with best cam settings. But he plays assisted so it didnt suit me. I made few adjustments myself and so far so good - last week i played all my matches on it and i stopped switching.
Its Stadium Camera, and settings are (from top to bottom) 3,4,5. Dont know which settings are on top, which on bottom, but its 3,4,5 anyway. Try it. Would be a pity if you stopped playing coz of the camera, which is more customisable than ever now.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Spoony released some clip with best cam settings. But he plays assisted so it didnt suit me. I made few adjustments myself and so far so good - last week i played all my matches on it and i stopped switching.
Its Stadium Camera, and settings are (from top to bottom) 3,4,5. Dont know which settings are on top, which on bottom, but its 3,4,5 anyway. Try it. Would be a pity if you stopped playing coz of the camera, which is more customisable than ever now.

it's:
zoom
height
angle

edit: afair, 2,4,8 is default and i set it to 4,4,8! not 100% sure though.

glad you dont give up on the stadium cam yet!

edit: and here is the @SpoonyPizzas video on cam settings for all other members to watch:

 

[chiefrocka4real]

You use manual shooting or advanced?

Manual.

On PES 2019 I was playing on a modded dynamic wide cam.
It looked quite similar to the stadium cam, but a little more zoomed out.

But it´s still the dynamic wide one with it´s behaviour and the stadium cam probably needs different aiming angles.

The aiming skills I developed became quite useless with the new cam.

 

[Alx1234]

Slower pace.
Shooting variety.
Shooting error.
Passing error.
Individuality.
No catch-up bug.


I think they listen.
Probably not to every single word you and I have to say.

2 words : free demo

 

[rockstrongo]

professional from what i remember started off perfectly but as your team increased in TS eventually most of the teams would play very deep in defense and as you said the AI players regardless who it is you could steal the ball off easy and that used to turn me off from continuing on from playing it, whereas top player and SS was the complete opposite, ah well wait and see what happens next month

Yeah you're right,I find it grueling playing on TP/SS (Pes 18 for me) I rather play on professional with some restrictions on how I play to even it out,but sometimes you'll get your ass kicked properly anyway ,which is good

 

[Chuny]

I'm not quite sure what you're showing there. The player was passing to someone who's perfectly open to a pass, taking advantage of free space. What's the point in passing the ball to midfield, just to waste that better chance that opened upfront? In real life, players pass the ball around looking for an opening. The openings in that video have presented themselves many times.

Imagine in real life I'm a right back and I see my winger in acres of space right in front of me, you think I'll completely ignore him and pass it to my midfielders just because build up play? I'd be told off to no end by my teammates.

You got to close them spaces and lanes mate. You'll see them stop and pass it back or sideways.

I have to agree, What i was watching was a an AI actually playing the first open pass you see, Which is the golden rule when you're on the ball. There were occasions where you circled a group of players, But there was also opposition players nearby meaning to pass into that area would present risk of interception or being pressured and dis-possessed - You'd look for a safer option.

Now, You could maybe argue wing play and passing down the flanks is too easy though, But i think this is more of a passing assistance issue more than anything. In the COM's case, They don't "play on manual" so it's more of an issue where more often than not they're going to complete successful laser guided passes and through balls down the flanks.

Honestly, I've played FUMA matches against humans online and wing play isn't anywhere near as effective or play isn't as end to end because naturally your slowing down and taking your time to perfect your passes and through balls and they still often get under/overhit, intercepted or go out of play balancing things out.

What I'm trying to show there is that the AI systematically, automatically, always look for the CF or the winger.
They usually don't try to build up the play.
I remember my first post regarding the demo was exactly about this. And even though I got around to really liking it, and even thinking it was probably the best PES game in a very long time, I still find it somewhat frustrating that the AI has 3 or even 4 players standing absolutely alone in the middle of the pitch, yet the player on the ball stubbornly keeps running to one of the sides just to pass it to the man on the wing, because that's what he's been coded to do: GO TO POINT A AND PASS THE BALL TO POINT B.

It even looks kind of weird, because when you are paying in the midfield (and that's where I play in real life) you usually try to find the free man quickly, you don't want to keep the ball for too long, because if you lose it there, you'll have problems. Yet this player just runs to the sideline, when there was no clear pass to be executed there. Why? Because he "knew" the clear pass would be produced. He "knew" the winger would go to point B so he could pass the ball there even though there were better options earlier on, down the centre of the pitch.

If this was just a sporadic scenario I wouldn't be standing here saying this. But I've noticed it far too many times, and upon talking to other people about it I realised, it's not just me.

 

[rockstrongo]

Regarding cam settings,I've always felt thats something overlooked when it comes to difficulty settings,more so on other games.
But playing with a narrow cam on professional as an example may sometimes provide a different difficulty than a zoomed out one on TP etc.
That's why it sometimes can be confusing when person A describes the game as hectic when you don't feel that at all being on a different cam,like I said more so on other games (my experience)

 

[PRO_TOO]

Yeah you're right,I find it grueling playing on TP/SS (Pes 18 for me) I rather play on professional with some restrictions on how I play to even it out,but sometimes you'll get your ass kicked properly anyway ,which is good

for testing purposes i choose to have a few matches on regular and professional last night. i was stunned when the AI (same teams i played the whole night on top player (my currently prefered setting)) fooled me so nice. trick in the pen box and then a pass for a nice curled finish. i thought to myself: is that on top player!?
had a look: i set it to regular in that match and i was suprised!! really suprised!

well, with all the AI difficulty ramp up talk on twitter, i'm not sure how to judge difficulty levels right now. is it more varied on higher levels (the example above would prove the opposite)? is it just faster, more direct and hectic (like it was before)?
what will wil AI update do to all of this?

i dont like to be in the dark in that regard. got somehow used to it in some areas (konami teached me over the years ), but i really like to be clear on that topic. but hey, we can't even be sure that stats matter!
anyway... its crazy!

 

[rockstrongo]

for testing purposes i choose to have a few matches on regular and professional last night. i was stunned when the AI (same teams i played the whole night on top player (my currently prefered setting)) fooled me so nice. trick in the pen box and then a pass for a nice curled finish. i thought to myself: is that on top player!?
had a look: i set it to regular in that match and i was suprised!! really suprised!

well, with all the AI difficulty ramp up talk on twitter, i'm not sure how to judge difficulty levels right now. is it more varied on higher levels (the example above would prove the opposite)? is it just faster, more direct and hectic (like it was before)?
what will wil AI update do to all of this?

i dont like to be in the dark in that regard. got somehow used to it in some areas (konami teached me over the years ), but i really like to be clear on that topic. but hey, we can't even be sure that stats matter!
anyway... its crazy!

I discovered Regular a year ago or so playing Pes 18,and for me that's absolutely the best difficulty AI wise,gets easy real quick,but really solid in how the AI play's.
Would recommend that for players switching from PA1 to really have a go at it.
Not sure if I want to go back to TP ever again from professional, especially on my Pes 18,hopefully it plays ok on 20s final release

 

[PRO_TOO]

I discovered Regular a year ago or so playing Pes 18,and for me that's absolutely the best difficulty AI wise,gets easy real quick,but really solid in how the AI play's.
Would recommend that for players switching from PA1 to really have a go at it.
Not sure if I want to go back to TP ever again from professional, especially on my Pes 18,hopefully it plays ok on 20s final release

so this seems to be the thing then. they do play kinda like a human on regular but lack strength/difficulty. when you then up the difficulty, they tend to play more precise and fast and not that human anymore. gimme all their skills and traits and behaviour on all dif. levels, but the % of succesfully doing it and the speed of how they perform those, should depend on the dif. level you play on and player stats (am i right here!?). it really drives me nuts when i think about it too much.. so i wont anymore! same time i can think of this beeing super hard to program.
on a side note: on regular and professional the AI in defense isnt what i prefer! they are to passive. and in offense: they may do some ticks and vary their attacks but they are dribbling way to long and gimme to much time to attack them.

anyway: (todays) future is looking bright! football training after work and then its the demo again (on professional tonight)!

 

[chiefrocka4real]

I discovered Regular a year ago or so playing Pes 18,and for me that's absolutely the best difficulty AI wise,gets easy real quick,but really solid in how the AI play's.
Would recommend that for players switching from PA1 to really have a go at it.
Not sure if I want to go back to TP ever again from professional, especially on my Pes 18,hopefully it plays ok on 20s final release

Same here!

I don´t know how it´s gonna be this year, but I learned for myself, staying on professional and one level before (that´s regular, right?) is the most playable thing.
Top Player and above...I often had those bullshit games were you feel like, AI is gonna score now and you can´t do anything about it and it happened.

 

[philla]

As nice the stadium cam might look, it is completely impossible (at least for me) to play full manual due to the fooling angle of view not translating to my left-right-up-down input.

As stadium cam is more zoomed out, people tend to see a slower pace which is not really there in my opinion. Ground passes even increased to unrealistic speed levels and don't match the physics of high passes anymore.

 

[chiefrocka4real]

As nice the stadium cam might look, it is completely impossible (at least for me) to play full manual due to the fooling angle of view not translating to me left-right-up-down input.

As stadium cam is more zoomed out, people tend to see a slower pace which is not really there in my opinion. Ground passes even increased to unrealistic speed levels and don't match the physics of high passes anymore.

Don´t know about your second paragraph, but I agree on your first one, specially about your direction input.
I couldn´t explain it properly, but that´s exactly my problem.
Yesterday I was playing around with the settings and I had a strange situation which made me stop playing:
My player was standing near to the middle line, and I pushed the stick straight up to pass it to the teammate standing directly above him. I know I pushed the stick straight up, but the pass went too much to the left.

I need the input of the wide cam, but the view of the stadium one, so I´ll wait for the cam mods.