eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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Jimi_Zuko said:
theres been no quality for over 10 yrs, if you cant provide quality then provide different modes
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Not true. It could have been better but Pes 2011, 2013, 2015,2017 have all been good. I just can't understand how someone thinking there has not been quality for over 10 years is still interested in Pes. Is it the usual "let's act cynical and entitled on the web" thing?
 
OBH said:
I wouldn't say it's immature and uneducated whining at all.

That fact is that football is an incredibly divisive sport anyway. What you might consider to be a foul or a great goal, won't be the same as someone else.

If you were to ask 100 people "what is the most important thing in a football game?" you'd get so many different answers - realism, playing as my favourite players, licenses, 30 yard screamers, amazing face scans, physics, skill moves, tactical options, etc, etc. Not everyone's idea of fun is listening to ref blow his whistle every 5 seconds, and you'll find just as many people who love the fanciful things like beating 5 players with Ronaldo, as you do people who love gameplay as close to a sim as possible. I remember finding it hilarious listening to fans a few years ago talk about net physics like they're the most important thing in the world.

I totally agree with you that players should have a choice, and be able to set the game up to play by the rules that they want, but that only applies to offline. You still need to pick a setting that will apply to everyone when playing online matches.

Personally, I have no problem with the number of fouls in the game, but I don't like the inconsistency between what players and the AI can get away with. I'd be happy to make the ref a bit more strict with the AI, and a bit more lenient with the player.
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Problem is when you listen to fan feedback the waters become muddied..

Back in the ps2 era there was no fan feedback,no expectation.We adhered and learned to adapt to the product that we were given.Willing to discover the games nuances and hidden subtleties that only came to the fore when you became totally in-tune with the game.

I’m now seeing things in Pes2020 that we’re invisible to me in the first week of play..The variation in the animations,passing ,shooting(even in basic).How you have to Marshall your defence and drag your forwards and midfielders back in to position to set your defence.These things aren’t overly automated ,nor is the AI doing all the off the ball work for you.Its more user driven.It’s the perfect equilibrium of cause and effect,much like real football.With all the randomness you get from a inflated sphere of air.

There so much subtlety here..and that’s something you just don’t see in 5 days...

How many people truly learned to appreciate the refs and fouls system..As soon as the demo went live people were complaining about it,because they couldn’t just constantly swarm the ball carrier.

There are some inconsistencies that I hope are fixed,but it’s no way as bad as it’s been amplified by the knee jerkers.The same goes for the trick mechanics,close control.

There’s plenty of first touch error in the game also..
 
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Chris Davies said:
Yeah @Jimi_Zuko you're being a little too cynical at this point and not really adding anything other than "it's shit mate", please keep it constructive otherwise it's not feedback it's just trolling.
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Ok cool, think it’s gotten to the point for me where this game isn’t advancing enough to where it should be, don’t worry won’t be posting again till next years game unless it’s positive and constructive, and let’s hope we don’t hear in here the demo was so much better after release cos it will be 5-6 years in a row since we have been hearing that.
 
You'll never make everyone happy. That's why many of us think they shouldn't listen to fans for any small thing and stick more to what they believe it's best.

I mean, stamina is fucked as in the stamina bug? Of course fix it. It's one of those things you fix when they present themselves.

But big things like pace, or shooting, or fouls, or whatever else. Things that don't have great problems and are what they are because you exactly decided that while you were developing them? Well, you shouldn't touch them so easily. Certainly not after not even two weeks of feedback.
I know that's not the Fifa vs Pes thread but that's exactly the problem with EA. You start the year with a game, you end up with almost literally another in so many sides. Usually for the worst.

That's not where Konami should go. Imo.
 
Jimi_Zuko said:
theres been no quality for over 10 yrs, if you cant provide quality then provide different modes
Click to expand...
Pes 11-12-13-17,all very good games.
Don't know what this is all about?
You see a demo going in a different direction from both 18&19 which has got a lot of good reviews?
What more do you want?
More modes?
I'm not comparing to FIFA (there's a different thread for that) but seeing gameplay improvements being pushed by konami instead of a new mode,that's a good thing in my eyes
 
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A visual touch I hope doesn't get lost through license restrictions per se is the tattoos they scan. I remember last year a few players having scanned tattoos, but they ones I recollect moved to unlicensed clubs and therefore Konami had to take this out of the game:
-Bonucci (Milan to unlicensed Juventus)
-Wilshere (Arsenal to unlicensed West Ham)
-Aleix Vidal (Barcelona to unlicensed Sevilla)

For example now Miguel Trauco has moved from Flamengo to Saint-Étienne. I wonder if both clubs being licensed means they should have no problem with keeping his fully scanned model. Would be a shame to lose that.
 
OBH said:
I wouldn't say it's immature and uneducated whining at all.

That fact is that football is an incredibly divisive sport anyway. What you might consider to be a foul or a great goal, won't be the same as someone else.

If you were to ask 100 people "what is the most important thing in a football game?" you'd get so many different answers - realism, playing as my favourite players, licenses, 30 yard screamers, amazing face scans, physics, skill moves, tactical options, etc, etc. Not everyone's idea of fun is listening to ref blow his whistle every 5 seconds, and you'll find just as many people who love the fanciful things like beating 5 players with Ronaldo, as you do people who love gameplay as close to a sim as possible. I remember finding it hilarious listening to fans a few years ago talk about net physics like they're the most important thing in the world.

I totally agree with you that players should have a choice, and be able to set the game up to play by the rules that they want, but that only applies to offline. You still need to pick a setting that will apply to everyone when playing online matches.

Personally, I have no problem with the number of fouls in the game, but I don't like the inconsistency between what players and the AI can get away with. I'd be happy to make the ref a bit more strict with the AI, and a bit more lenient with the player.
Click to expand...
+1
Good post
 
Madmac79 said:
I have to agree with the fellas above. Had a brief ML, J-League adventure last year and also had my share of injuries. Can't remember more than 3 months, but it's probably the best it was in term of injuries of this gen.

I'd bring back mild injuries tho. I'd love to see players playing through them once again as it was in the past. There would be ground for some epic depth.
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I remember back in the days if pes 4 to 6, i would end up on a wednesday night for a cup match hampered with injuries everywhere and i had to reshuffle my barca team and play people out of position just to make it through that spanish cup match in the middle of the week,ahhh nostalgia
 
rockstrongo said:
Pes 11-12-13-17,all very good games.
Don't know what the whining is all about?
You see a demo going in a different direction from both 18&19 which has got a lot of good reviews?
What more do you want?
More modes?
I'm not comparing to FIFA (there's a different thread for that) but seeing gameplay improvements being pushed by konami instead of a new mode,that's a good thing in my eyes
Click to expand...

out of all those i enjoyed 17 the most, 13 was promising but had its issues but all those previous pes games you mentioned also had more ML depth than what we have now, when i say depth i mean scouting, sponsorships as well as having a personal assistant who would give you advice of the opponent you were facing and who was there dangerous player, and there was a version where they had you being creative with your strategies at different times, if they kept all that id be dealing with the gameplay issues alot better, so yeah thats my issue with konami, dont get me wrong this year is the first pes where iv seen a significant difference in individuality compared to the previous and it does look very promising but to me thats not enough for a full price game, this years game shouldve been pes 2018, so for me to play this game all year i do need various modes to play it or if they cant provide that then bring me a deep master league which they havent but thats me, what im after im in the extreme minority, majority love playing friendlies with there mates and myclub, i guess the guys that do play master league are waiting to see if the scripting in master league will be improved or it still has the same frustrations, there you go buddy iv let out all my frustration with the game feel much better now :-)
 
Guys, I have a question. Sure ...You remember PES 2017 and amazing goals with no-move goalkeeper like during Henry´s shot here at the time 0:45 -
Is in PES 2020 this kind of keeper´s animation (no goalkeeper´s move on perfect shot goal ?) ? And another question .... during the free kick, did you score the goal from free kick so accurately, that keeper just stood and didn´t move and it was goal?

Thank you for your experience and answers.
 
Madmac79 said:
You'll never make everyone happy. That's why many of us think they shouldn't listen to fans for any small thing and stick more to what they believe it's best.

I mean, stamina is fucked as in the stamina bug? Of course fix it. It's one of those things you fix when they present themselves.

But big things like pace, or shooting, or fouls, or whatever else. Things that don't have great problems and are what they are because you exactly decided that while you were developing them? Well, you shouldn't touch them so easily. Certainly not after not even two weeks of feedback.
I know that's not the Fifa vs Pes thread but that's exactly the problem with EA. You start the year with a game, you end up with almost literally another in so many sides. Usually for the worst.

That's not where Konami should go. Imo.
Click to expand...


Yep..game breaking issues,bugs,exploits..These are the important things like the stamina issue.

In all honesty though,I think even Konami knew the fouls needed a slight tweak..

Chuny said it right for me and how everything this year seems so much more measured and thought out..

I think Konami are serious about esports and want to lay down something that’s more representative of the real game..Something that requires some knowledge of how real football is played and a antidote to the press spammers and those that just want to run at goal and pass it to there fastest player.
 
DigitalByDesign said:
Problem is when you listen to fan feedback the waters become muddied..

Back in the ps2 era there was no fan feedback,no expectation.We adhered and learned to adapt to the product that we were given.Willing to discover the games nuances and hidden subtleties that only came to the fore when you became totally in-tune with the game.

I’m now seeing things in Pes2020 that we’re invisible to me in the first week of play..The variation in the animations,passing ,shooting(even in basic).How you have to Marshall your defence and drag your forwards and midfielders back in to position to set your defence.These things aren’t overly automated ,nor is the AI doing all the off the ball work for you.Its more user driven.It’s the perfect equilibrium of cause and effect,much like real football.With all the randomness you get from a inflated sphere of air.

There so much subtlety here..and that’s something you just don’t see in 5 days...

How many people truly learned to appreciate the refs and fouls system..As soon as the demo went live people were complaining about it,because they couldn’t just constantly swarm the ball carrier.

There are some inconsistencies that I hope are fixed,but it’s no way as bad as it’s been amplified by the knee jerkers.The same goes for the trick mechanics, close control.

There’s plenty of first touch error in the game also..
Click to expand...
I totally agree with the knee jerk response. That never helps anyone. But you could explain why you're happy with fouls till you're blue in the face, and just like fouls in real life, you will always, always find someone who disagrees. Even the 'much like real life' comment while it is absolutely true, doesn't make it 'the right way', as plenty of people enjoy the aspects of football games that are distant from reality (such as increased pace, stamina, and able to hit 30yrd screamers with unerring accuracy).

I'm all for making things more complex and giving the player more things to learn, but the amount of fouls the player gives away when applying pressure compared to the amount the AI gets away with is pretty ridiculous. I just want to play on a level playing field. It would be okay if there was an animation to show the player doing something they shouldn't (such as a shirt tug) but there is literally nothing. As you've said, back in the day you'd work out how a game works as that's all you had, but comparing these days to them is nothing more than a fruitless moral victory as things simply don't work that way anymore.

As I said earlier, I'm happy with the number of fouls, and I don't mind learning a new way to defend, that's half the fun, but that doesn't escape from the fact that 9/10 that you give away are no fouls at all.
 
Klisnic said:
Guys, I have a question. Sure ...You remember PES 2017 and amazing goals with no-move goalkeeper like during Henry´s shot here at the time 0:45 -
Is in PES 2020 this kind of keeper´s animation (no goalkeeper´s move on perfect shot goal ?) ? And another question .... during the free kick, did you score the goal from free kick so accurately, that keeper just stood and didn´t move and it was goal?

Thank you for your experience and answers.
Click to expand...

PES 2017 had the best set of legends.
And I don't even care or play with legends...
 
Damjan said:
A visual touch I hope doesn't get lost through license restrictions per se is the tattoos they scan. I remember last year a few players having scanned tattoos, but they ones I recollect moved to unlicensed clubs and therefore Konami had to take this out of the game:
-Bonucci (Milan to unlicensed Juventus)
-Wilshere (Arsenal to unlicensed West Ham)
-Aleix Vidal (Barcelona to unlicensed Sevilla)

For example now Miguel Trauco has moved from Flamengo to Saint-Étienne. I wonder if both clubs being licensed means they should have no problem with keeping his fully scanned model. Would be a shame to lose that.
Click to expand...

Likely to happen again if a transfer like that happens. Same happend to Neymar.
 
Jimi_Zuko said:
out of all those i enjoyed 17 the most, 13 was promising but had its issues but all those previous pes games you mentioned also had more ML depth than what we have now, when i say depth i mean scouting, sponsorships as well as having a personal assistant who would give you advice of the opponent you were facing and who was there dangerous player, and there was a version where they had you being creative with your strategies at different times, if they kept all that id be dealing with the gameplay issues alot better, so yeah thats my issue with konami, dont get me wrong this year is the first pes where iv seen a significant difference in individuality compared to the previous and it does look very promising but to me thats not enough for a full price game, this years game shouldve been pes 2018, so for me to play this game all year i do need various modes to play it or if they cant provide that then bring me a deep master league which they havent but thats me, what im after im in the extreme minority, majority love playing friendlies with there mates and myclub, i guess the guys that do play master league are waiting to see if the scripting in master league will be improved or it still has the same frustrations, there you go buddy iv let out all my frustration with the game feel much better now :-)
Click to expand...
I felt pretty much the same around Pes 18,then 19s mess turned up,and I pretty much declared "Rip Pes".
I feel a bit more confident in 20 though,and right now I'm giving them a lot of cred for this one.
But just like you,I'm a bit scared that ML scripting will screw shit up again.
But for now I'm seeing this demo and hopefully the full release with a great deal of hope.
In a perfect world,a stunning Pes gameplay and FIFA's presentation /licences (pass on Piemonte Calcio though)
 
OBH said:
I totally agree with the knee jerk response. That never helps anyone. But you could explain why you're happy with fouls till you're blue in the face, and just like fouls in real life, you will always, always find someone who disagrees. Even the 'much like real life' comment while it is absolutely true, doesn't make it 'the right way', as plenty of people enjoy the aspects of football games that are distant from reality (such as increased pace, stamina, and able to hit 30yrd screamers with unerring accuracy).

I'm all for making things more complex and giving the player more things to learn, but the amount of fouls the player gives away when applying pressure compared to the amount the AI gets away with is pretty ridiculous. I just want to play on a level playing field. It would be okay if there was an animation to show the player doing something they shouldn't (such as a shirt tug) but there is literally nothing. As you've said, back in the day you'd work out how a game works as that's all you had, but comparing these days to them is nothing more than a fruitless moral victory as things simply don't work that way anymore.

As I said earlier, I'm happy with the number of fouls, and I don't mind learning a new way to defend, that's half the fun, but that doesn't escape from the fact that 9/10 that you give away are no fouls at all.
Click to expand...

But why is this happening to you and not to me?..I’ve put plenty of examples of games I’ve captured where I’m tight defensively and am giving barely any fouls away,if any at all.

I’m not in denial..I just don’t think this is a big issue as you and many others state..

Football games in recent years have just made many lazy and inpatient in my opinion.To much hand holding with predictable gameplay and outcomes.
 
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rockstrongo said:
I felt pretty much the same around Pes 18,then 19s mess turned up,and I pretty much declared "Rip Pes".
I feel a bit more confident in 20 though,and right now I'm giving them a lot of cred for this one.
But just like you,I'm a bit scared that ML scripting will screw shit up again.
But for now I'm seeing this demo and hopefully the full release with a great deal of hope.
In a perfect world,a stunning Pes gameplay and FIFA's presentation /licences (pass on Piemonte Calcio though)
Click to expand...
If they can fix the issue where players don’t run back to their predetermined positions especially in defense, I’ll enjoy this years game
 
Jimi_Zuko said:
If they can fix the issue where players don’t run back to there predetermined positions especially in defense, I’ll enjoy this years game
Click to expand...
Hopefully that will be the case,not to sure on that one.
I think they fixed a few defensive fuck ups on 19 Vs 18's massive gaps.
It should be tough breaking down a defence,and you shouldn't have miles if space in the MF either,that's a annoying.
I think Pes biggest issue (for me) is the strange steps in difficulty.
Regular let's your players shine,and the CPU play really organic,but a bit to easy, professional dumbs you down,TP/SS makes shit teams play like Juventus.
That's extremely weird

Those examples are from Pes 18-19 btw (probably Pes 13-15-16 to)
 
Jimi_Zuko said:
If they can fix the issue where players don’t run back to their predetermined positions especially in defense, I’ll enjoy this years game
Click to expand...

If they did that, they'd also probably need to implement some other things. Because if players don't go back to their positions, there'll be many gaps to be exploited.
Offline it's one thing. But Online, people would trash the game if they lost because one of their defenders stopped to get some coffee in the middle of the match instead of covering up that gap.

Not saying you're not right. I'd also like to see AI making decisions one wouldn't expect. But hey, I think it's more than fine this year. Maybe some tweaks along the way will get us there.

Smile man. Don't be so grumpy :D
 
rockstrongo said:
Hopefully that will be the case,not to sure on that one.
I think they fixed a few defensive fuck ups on 19 Vs 18's massive gaps.
It should be tough breaking down a defence,and you shouldn't have miles if space in the MF either,that's a annoying.
I think Pes biggest issue (for me) is the strange steps in difficulty.
Regular let's your players shine,and the CPU play really organic,but a bit to easy, professional dumbs you down,TP/SS makes shit teams play like Juventus.
That's extremely weird

Those examples are from Pes 18-19 btw (probably Pes 13-15-16 to)
Click to expand...

professional from what i remember started off perfectly but as your team increased in TS eventually most of the teams would play very deep in defense and as you said the AI players regardless who it is you could steal the ball off easy and that used to turn me off from continuing on from playing it, whereas top player and SS was the complete opposite, ah well wait and see what happens next month
 
Jimi_Zuko said:
professional from what i remember started off perfectly but as your team increased in TS eventually most of the teams would play very deep in defense and as you said the AI players regardless who it is you could steal the ball off easy and that used to turn me off from continuing on from playing it, whereas top player and SS was the complete opposite, ah well wait and see what happens next month
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The balance is there on Superstar Jim(it feels like playing a good human imo pa0)..It’s rewarding and not frustrating..None of that stat boosting or the cpu AI suddenly becoming super while defenders switch off allowing a easy goal..(this could change though,we all know konamis form in recent years.I do hope that horrible over use of over scripting doesn’t resurface).For me the balance is there so we the end user create the script in the demo).

I can nullify everything they do and goals conceded are purely error on my part..

Stick with it Jim..this is a good one!
 
DigitalByDesign said:
The balance is there on Superstar Jim(it feels like playing a good human imo pa0..It’s rewarding and not frustrating..None of that stat boosting or the cpu AI suddenly becoming super while defenders switch off allowing a easy goal..(this could change though,we all know konamis form in recent years.I do hope that horrible over use of over scripting doesn’t resurface).For me the balance is there so we the end user create the script in the demo).

I can nullify everything they do and goals conceded are purely error on my part..

Stick with it Jim..this is a good one!
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Yes and no.

This is on Superstar.


That doesn't seem too human to me.
It feels.... predetermined.
 
Jimi_Zuko said:
you have EA bring out a totally brand new mode in VOLTA and then you look at konami they have interactive menus and match day, konami are an embarrassment
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See here is the thing Jim. PES fans dont want crap like VOLTA added. Great for Fifa fans and lets face it Fifa has played like Volta since around 2012-2013 its just they have finally added the right park for it. Now none of us have played Fifa 20 yet but my money is on Fifa gameplay being the embarrassment rather than anything Konami have not done this year.
 
I was just thinking...
If this year stats matter more (as they appear), MAYBE we could fix the issue in which players seem to have a magnet that drags them back to their positions automatically, without having any understanding about their surroundings or any awareness of what would be better in that particular situation.

Maybe if we lower the Att. Position Stat, they won't do that as much.
 
Chuny said:
Yes and no.

This is on Superstar.


That doesn't seem too human to me.
It feels.... predetermined.
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i think thats a fair video showing what needs polish in a very clear way (someone should tweet this for sure!!)! tweak that behaviour to be more human like (let the AI choose from different passing/dribbling options) and we have a very good game at hands, imo.
 
Aribo n Ojo said:
See here is the thing Jim. PES fans dont want crap like VOLTA added. Great for Fifa fans and lets face it Fifa has played like Volta since around 2012-2013 its just they have finally added the right park for it. Now none of us have played Fifa 20 yet but my money is on Fifa gameplay being the embarrassment rather than anything Konami have not done this year.
Click to expand...

Please guys, cut the EA/FIFA talk here now.

You can use this thread for that: https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/fifa-pes-contrast-compare.75470/page-77
 
Hmmmm, I guess I´m pretty much done with the demo.

I like the game....I really do.
But I´m switching cams cause of manual play.
I don´t know how you guys are dealing with this....lol.

Stadium cam looks lovely, but no matter what settings I use....diagonal passes and shoots aren´t going where I want them to. I can´t enjoy it like this.
I don´t really wanna change the feeling on the stick (god....that must sound awkward), like change my whole manual feeling.

Guess I´ll wait for a cam mod for sider for the dynamic wide cam in the full release.

Fingers crossed...
 
chiefrocka4real said:
Hmmmm, I guess I´m pretty much done with the demo.

I like the game....I really do.
But I´m switching cams cause of manual play.
I don´t know how you guys are dealing with this....lol.

Stadium cam looks lovely, but no matter what settings I use....diagonal passes and shoots aren´t going where I want them to. I can´t enjoy it like this.
I don´t really wanna change the feeling on the stick (god....that must sound awkward), like change my whole manual feeling.

Guess I´ll wait for a cam mod for sider for the dynamic wide cam in the full release.

Fingers crossed...
Click to expand...


You use manual shooting or advanced?
 
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