rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Just Like that bro,TP and SS horrible (every 3rd 4th game or so)
I just had one very good season on professional/regular with Pes 18,and I know if I had played that on TP is quit a long time ago
eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)
- Thread starter ThomasGOAL
- Start date
- Status
I just had one very good season on professional/regular with Pes 18,and I know if I had played that on TP is quit a long time ago
- Staff
- #6,722
OT: Attention please!
https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/new-evo-web-beta-site-xenforo-2-1.80639/#post-3414808
https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/new-evo-web-beta-site-xenforo-2-1.80639/#post-3414808
There shouldn't be a problem at the middle line, cause the view is 1:1 straight and matching to the stick input. My problems arise close to goal when the angle kicks in and fools the eye/hand coordination.
yasujiro
FUMA player
I had the same issue but I started forgetting about the pitch lines and focusing on where is the objective of my pass or shoot in relation to my player. Then I move the stick "drawing an imaginary line" between my player and the objective. It's important to forget about the pitch lines.
NIK778899
Premier League
- 30 August 2013
Sounds good, although I'll be hoping the full game lands on 7 September anyway.
DigitalByDesign
League 1
- 29 July 2019
Yep..
The A.I. does what I would do..Likewise I’m a left sided midfielder.I also play and think like a midfielder.You can see this in my vids how I build from the back and prod-eminently use my midfield..So much so I’ve seen the cpu adjust it’s formation in the middle to counter my style of play.
There’s little doubt the cpu A.I plays the percentages.The logical pass..Using wingers or making a pass to a winger in space.Even to a forward for a pass that creates space and reduces my compactness.Creating other opportunities and space.
Is the A.I. really that bad though?..I’m schooled in the other game(so I’m seeing no superiority there).The cpu AI builds like a human would and tries to fence you in your own half..When the space open’s up its direct.
Whats important is it feels great to play on the higher levels..and it’s smart...If anyone’s hammering it on superstar pa0 or pa1..id love to see that.
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rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Good luck at training tonight pal,keep that clean sheet.so this seems to be the thing then. they do play kinda like a human on regular but lack strength/difficulty. when you then up the difficulty, they tend to play more precise and fast and not that human anymore. gimme all their skills and traits and behaviour on all dif. levels, but the % of succesfully doing it and the speed of how they perform those, should depend on the dif. level you plan on and player stats (am i right here!?). it really drives me nuts when i think about it too much.. so i wont anymore!same time i can think of this beeing super hard to program.
on a side note: on regular and professional the AI in defense isnt what i prefer! they are to passive. and in offense: they may do some ticks and vary their attacks but they are dribbling way to long and gimme to much time to attack them.
anyway: (todays) future is looking bright! football training after work and then its the demo again (on professional tonight)!
We all know you’re Neuer in disguise
chiefrocka4real
Champions League
That's what I think too.
It shouldn't, but it seems to be, unless you are standing exactly on the line.
OBH
PESadvocate
- 6 March 2019
- Tottenham
Fouls are absolutely up for opinion in real life. In fact, it's because they're always up for debate in real life which causes this discussion between us in the first place. Even ref to ref has differing views and what is and what isn't a foul. How many times are referring decisions debated between fans one way or another, every single season?
Fifa change the rules every other year as well because it's impossible to make fouls a clear black or white decision - 'accidental', 'with intent', 'out of control', just to name a few of the buzz words Fifa has added to their rules recently. Judging something such as 'out of control' is 100% based on opinion. How would you even begin to program that into a game??
I have to say though, you're absolutely right about me stating it as fact, that makes it sound like I'm dismissing other opinions which absolutely isn't the case. What I should have said was - unless a day comes when 100% of real life fouls are agreed upon 100% of the time it is literally impossible to implement fouls correctly digitally.
I can only speak from my own experiences, and personally, I really don't mind how many fouls each game has. I think aiming for a particular number of fouls per game doesn't make any sense at all. I just want there to be a nice, believable level - of course some will be right, some will be wrong, but at least have them at a level where it's acceptable.
I mean, do think these clips actually look like fouls to you?? Any of them? (posted by guys earlier in this thread).
Somewhere in this thread is a fantastic slide tackle that doesn't even touch the man and a red card is given. Annoyingly though it's hard to find in 225 pages!
gabe.paul.logan
Retired Footballer
Have to agree and disagree. From what i gather most of us here plays 10-20 minutes games. Based on some real quick google search the average number of fouls per team for the whole season is around 10 (PL 18-19 season) so as quickmaths dictates 3-5 per game should be a "realistic number" to expect (excluding offsides ofc). As for me and probably for many others its ridiculously unrealistic to finish a game with 0 fouls for each team, and while freekicks are really easy for the past few years there isn't really any reason to sign a great FK taker for the team if u only get 1 or 2 FKs in 5 games. On the other hand the loading screens we get after each deadball situation is laughable in 2019... so yeah it can be quiet frustrating for some.
This situation we have now with the foul feedback could be easily solved with the implementation of refereeing level or something. Same as the Challenge mode for ML. It only needs like 3 modes: strict-normal-loose. Should be a lot more easier to implement than siders, the only thing they need is to improve the detection.
OBH
PESadvocate
- 6 March 2019
- Tottenham
But a game doesn't work on averages. Each game is unique.
As soon as you start trying to force an average foul count, you run the risk of creating fouls that don't exist purely to hit a quota.
Surely the focus has to be on the fouls themselves; to make them of an acceptable, believable standard, then the amount of fouls will take care of itself depending on how dirty the game itself is.
Tottenham vs Chelsea 2016 had 29 fouls
Rangers vs Celtic 2015 had 41 fouls
Liverpool vs Wolves 2018 had only 9 fouls
The variety is massive. Trying to make every game a series of tick boxes in a list of averages is not only flat out boring, but completely counter-intuitive to achieving the realism everyone is striving for.
Plus, if you start trying to dictate the number of fouls in a game to hit an average amount, surely the exact same logic has to be used elsewhere? By this thinking, each players shooting stat should then be reduced then after every goal scored, because scoring 6+ is a rare exception, and certainly not in the bracket of the average number of goals per game.
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PRO_TOO
Team Heffernan
Good luck at training tonight pal,keep that clean sheet.
We all know you’re Neuer in disguise
Thank you! far from it but I give it a 110% passion wise every time! Because that’s the most a human can give. We all know that.
Training went well, I’m totally done. 24.100 steps today.
Watching LIV vs NOR now. Few demo matches and that’s it for today.
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Im on 10k steps
far from it but I give it a 110% passion wise every time! Because that’s the most a human can give. We all know that.
Training went well, I’m totally done. 24.100 steps today.
Watching LIV vs NOR now. Few demo matches and that’s it for today.
Impressive!
koningfrikandel
Premier League
- 5 May 2017
On fouls: I think what's crucial here is that actions on the pitch must have consequences. At least that is my "big deal" with fouls and why a big reason why Pes 5 was so great. Press all the time - you will get fouls called against you and you will Not win the ball. Keep doing it and you will lose. Press with moderation and think about positioning = chance to win. No fouls removes all that and allows you to hack away at will and most importantly, so can the CPU. It has a knock on effect far greater than just freekicks or penalties given. A basic, crucial part of football. Action and consequences,simple as that really for me.
Chuny
-
- 11 December 2007
If they're going to fix the stamina bug, I'm all for it. But if they're going to tone down or remove the effect of stamina in players abilities throughout the game then I'm completely against it.
It's very satisfying when you have a fast player sitting on the bench, just waiting for the rival team's attacking FB to get tired, so you can bring that key player in and destroy the opposition on that flank.
It's very satisfying when you have a fast player sitting on the bench, just waiting for the rival team's attacking FB to get tired, so you can bring that key player in and destroy the opposition on that flank.
- Staff
- #6,739
True. Defending in the demo is so rewarding now. You really have to think and time your tackles..
But there is one thing that worries me more.
In Pes17 there were matches, where I would have only 1 or 2 fouls per match.
And it was still ok, because there was a great physicality. Collisions, clashes, it was great to watch. In short - to me, personally, physicality is more important than the amount of fouls.
I dont know how they are planning to tackle this fouls "issue", but im hoping that they will not touch physicality. If they make all touches softer and players just tripping instead of fall (like in Pes18) then its ruined.
koningfrikandel
Premier League
- 5 May 2017
Absolutely right. Another instance of " action and consequence " . Sprint all the time = player gets tired and sloppy. Perhaps you need to sub him off. Without it and without fouls you can press like an idiot and hack away. There needs to be consequences to pressing and sprinting all the time. It makes for interesting, meaningful decisions.
PRO_TOO
Team Heffernan
Madmac79
International
- 11 September 2006
Look. I think we are making this fouls discussion much more complicated than it really is.
We had recent chapters of the saga which ticked the fixed number of 1-2 fouls (sometimes not even those) per game with an impressive regularity. Many of us would just like to have a bit more. Not always, not every single game. But to have an aggressive defender butcher you down, or a losing team tackle you aggressively without necessarly being a rival every so often.
Just stuff like this. I don't think it's a particularly unreasonable demand.
real022
Conference
- 22 October 2016
Now, when everything is just fine, there is still one thing bothering me.
Is there a different kits styles?
Those default baggy kits are not bad, but when I`v started to notice that stuff, it become so annoying,
that there is no tucked in kits? Or there it is?
Is there a different kits styles?
Those default baggy kits are not bad, but when I`v started to notice that stuff, it become so annoying,
that there is no tucked in kits? Or there it is?
That's another reason why I stopped too. It's the same reason I couldn't play broadcast cam before. I play on angle 10, so the closer I move to the goal, the angles shift and thus directions get all weird too.
You're quick!
That's what she said
You don't have to find it. I know there are ridiculous fouls, they happen to me. I'm not saying they're perfect, but like I said before, I'd rather have this imperfect system for now than nothing at all, like it was the past few years. So now in the demo, more often than not the system gets it right. I'd take that over 0 given.
About the clips, I've already commented on the first one, Chris' one, and both in that clip are fouls. Instead of looking at it as just a game, imagine them in real life. The player goes through the player and kicks him. The 2nd one is dangerous play. At least the first vid is debatable and we can see there's a good possibility of a foul. The 2nd video though, if that was called a foul, then that's a good example when the system gets it totally wrong.
I've had my fair share of ridiculous fouls given that aren't debatable at all. Like Chris' clip here, my player dived for a header while the AI challenged the ball with his high foot. The ref gave the AI the foul instead, because my player's head hurt his foot obviously!
It was funny to watch, yet very ridiculous.To conclude, I'd take all debatable fouls over zero fouls any day
And I obviously don't mind tweaks to get rid of the ridiculous ones, only if they can do so without breaking the whole system.
OBH
PESadvocate
- 6 March 2019
- Tottenham
I'm not questioning the need for rewarding defending. Its essential.
I'm questioning when a player is needlessly punished.
Not every single foul needs to be correct every time, because as I said, that's just not possible. Look in real-life games where replays are slowed right down and viewed from multiple angles and pundits / commentators still can't decide.
However, circumstances like this when a foul is called when it is UNDOUBTEDLY a clean tackle should not exist. Absolutely no one could ever convince me that this should be a foul. If this is a foul then defending is officially dead and football is now a non-contact sport.
When basic and simple tackles are punishing you then it's no longer rewarding, instead it's infuriating.
That's not an unreasonable demand at all. Variety in all aspects is welcomed.
All I'm saying that the number of fouls in a game should be determined by how many ACTUAL fouls there are. The idea that "3/5 fouls per game is the average so let's aim for that" literally doesn't matter in the slightest because you can have the perfect number of fouls, but if they all look like that clip I've shared then what's the point?
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For me the biggest annoyance, and maybe it is because I'm doing something wrong, is that when my CPU operated player wins the ball he stops out of the sudden and sometimes that leads to losing the ball. I wish at least some sort of ball protection thing would activate so I can have time to switch back to him and get control over the player. I don't remember if this was an issue in past games (Basically skip 2019 gaming).
Everybody believes Konami's capacity to change fouls, I think it will be like the dynamic lighting and master league transfer fix screenshot last year.
I like the actual system, don't think they can change too much. But it has the potential to destroy not only fouls number, but also tackling system and physicality.
I like the actual system, don't think they can change too much. But it has the potential to destroy not only fouls number, but also tackling system and physicality.
OBH
PESadvocate
- 6 March 2019
- Tottenham
Was it 2015 when there was literally 0 fouls? Unless a player is taken to hospital, everything goes? You're right, that was ridiculous, no one want's that.You don't have to find it. I know there are ridiculous fouls, they happen to me. I'm not saying they're perfect, but like I said before, I'd rather have this imperfect system for now than nothing at all, like it was the past few years. So now in the demo, more often than not the system gets it right. I'd take that over 0 given.
About the clips, I've already commented on the first one, Chris' one, and both in that clip are fouls. Instead of looking at it as just a game, imagine them in real life. The player goes through the player and kicks him. The 2nd one is dangerous play. At least the first vid is debatable and we can see there's a good possibility of a foul. The 2nd video though, if that was called a foul, then that's a good example when the system gets it totally wrong.
I've had my fair share of ridiculous fouls given that aren't debatable at all. Like Chris' clip here, my player dived for a header while the AI challenged the ball with his high foot. The ref gave the AI the foul instead, because my player's head hurt his foot obviously!
To conclude, I'd take all debatable fouls over zero fouls any day
And I obviously don't mind tweaks to get rid of the ridiculous ones, only if they can do so without breaking the whole system.
I too am happy to take debatable fouls over no fouls, I WANT debatable fouls over no fouls. The point is that there are far too many that aren't even close to even being debatable. They're simple, fair, standing tackles. It's like nothing more than a flailing strand of hair touched the attacker before I touched the ball so a foul is called.
DigitalByDesign
League 1
- 29 July 2019
I'm not questioning the need for rewarding defending. Its essential.
I'm questioning when a player is needlessly punished.
Not every single foul needs to be correct every time, because as I said, that's just not possible. Look in real-life games where replays are slowed right down and viewed from multiple angles and pundits / commentators still can't decide.
However, circumstances like this when a foul is called when it is UNDOUBTEDLY a clean tackle should not exist. Absolutely no one could ever convince me that this should be a foul. If this is a foul then defending is officially dead and football is now a non-contact sport.
When basic and simple tackles are punishing you then it's no longer rewarding, instead it's infuriating.
That's not an unreasonable demand at all. Variety in all aspects is welcomed.
All I'm saying that the number of fouls in a game should be determined by how many ACTUAL fouls there are. The idea that "3/5 fouls per game is the average so let's aim for that" literally doesn't matter in the slightest because you can have the perfect number of fouls, but if they all look like that clip I've shared then what's the point?
I’ve seen the example you’ve shown given in my favour and I’ve also been penalised for it just like in your example..
Isn’t that reflective of reality..and different context.Because that’s what happen’s in real football.
Let’s not complicate this...
Edit..You can win the ball by just using the stick..This is more often then not treated less harshly by the referee..
When I say context I mean there are times where the ref will favour the opposing team or you because of match conditions..
It’s totally not random and albeit the odd collision bug or glitch it works consistently with the dynamics of the match adding a much needed dynamic imo..
If your only tackling with X and your heavy with momentum it will be penalised..But Not always..
The ref works for you and against you.Ever heard the expression they’ve got the ref in there pocket..Sometimes in real football everything goes against you..I’ve seen that in the demo!
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PESV
Championship
- 28 April 2002
That's another reason why I stopped too. It's the same reason I couldn't play broadcast cam before. I play on angle 10, so the closer I move to the goal, the angles shift and thus directions get all weird too.
You're quick!
That's what she said
You don't have to find it. I know there are ridiculous fouls, they happen to me. I'm not saying they're perfect, but like I said before, I'd rather have this imperfect system for now than nothing at all, like it was the past few years. So now in the demo, more often than not the system gets it right. I'd take that over 0 given.
About the clips, I've already commented on the first one, Chris' one, and both in that clip are fouls. Instead of looking at it as just a game, imagine them in real life. The player goes through the player and kicks him. The 2nd one is dangerous play. At least the first vid is debatable and we can see there's a good possibility of a foul. The 2nd video though, if that was called a foul, then that's a good example when the system gets it totally wrong.
I've had my fair share of ridiculous fouls given that aren't debatable at all. Like Chris' clip here, my player dived for a header while the AI challenged the ball with his high foot. The ref gave the AI the foul instead, because my player's head hurt his foot obviously!
To conclude, I'd take all debatable fouls over zero fouls any day
And I obviously don't mind tweaks to get rid of the ridiculous ones, only if they can do so without breaking the whole system.
Same here. Ive had only a few occasions of clear non-fouls called against me. Especially when you do not use X or R1, only LS, and you are coming from the sides or front, and still get the foul against you, ..its the worst. But despite this - and even because of it - i love how it forces you to be cautious and adapt your playing style.
Because that is the tradeoff here. Or you get a inconsistent (read: realisticly infuriating at times) referee and the equally realistic defensive mindset that flows from it OR you get a more consistent but dumbed down ref and a more frantic defensive mindset that comes along with that. We all know what we would choose.
To be honest, i never got the whole "there are not enough fouls" argument, I always get around 2 fouls on avarage on PES2019 and thought more fouls would just be forcing fouls for the sake of it. However, i get it now. All this time i wished for Konami to promote and favor the football mindset more and i totally neglected that fouls are the key to do just that.
Sure, make it a bit more consistent and get rid of those really buggy fouls where the collision system fucks up because yes they make the whole system feel a bit broken. But stop right there.
I would almost say 'add more fouls' because i played a lot of games with Boca against Arsenal, Bayen, Manu etc on high attack level and was dispossesed by a instorming players on full sprint clearly walking over me where i was surprised and a little angry i did not get the foul.
But you know, that surprise and slight bitterness against the referee letting the star team come away with a clear foul against the underdog are exactly the kind of emotions that set stadia on fire. It adds something to the game that i did not know was missing.
When the ref seems against you, its the perfect opportunity to up your game and avoid defensive risks. And if you get dispossed in an unfair matter nothing feels better then double X that *bleep* and throw him on the ground before he gets away :-)
The exact opposite is true as well, matches when i felt the ref was clearly on my side. This is all part of the real game and thus should be part of PES. If they remove the clear bugs so that it feels less broken, sure thing, but it would be really hard to swallow if in the patched game does not (so much) favor a cautious playing style anymore and/or looses the potential to disagree and be surprised.
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