eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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I agree with what @Chris Davies said. The times you give a ball away that you actually won in the first place through some awkward second or third touch is too often. A few other things I don’t like (the aforementioned fouls, the “stickiness” of the AI when they dribble), others, like the new dribbling logic, I have to get used to. But overall it’s a brilliant basis. That said, I am sure Konami will feck it up again come retail version.
 
Chris Davies said:
I delayed replying to this because I thought I'd saved a clip of it at a friend's house, but I hadn't, sorry. I'll clip it next time it happens.

That said, I see a lot of possession lost in circumstances where the player intercepts it perfectly with his feet, then "miscontrols" it so badly with his upper body that it becomes a pass to the opponent. It looks (and feels) fake every time.

In this instance, the interceptor has TONS of free space to move the ball into, yet (my input is ignored and) of his own accord, he chests it towards his own goal, and directly to the opponent that the pass was meant for. I don't think it's a coincidence.

(You could argue that, if it was faster - even though I'm playing on 0 here - that my player just didn't have time to control it, and it bounced off him. Fair enough, but I'm seeing this fairly often and it feels "dodgy" every time, to me. Just letting the ball hit you and bounce off you, no attempt to direct it away from danger.)


As I say, I'm seeing stuff like this every five-minute game, and I can't unsee it, or enjoy it, knowing this is going on.

Here I am on for a brilliant counter-attack and... When in God's name would you ever see a striker do this? What if this was my only counter in an entire ten-minute game? I'd be furious.


And as for the keeper here...
Online, goalkeepers are mental, because there seems to be a lag in your AI players' brains that isn't as bad (but is still there) offline, which is most noticeable in your defensive third (because when your defenders watch the ball go past, or run past the man in possession, you concede a goal 9/10 times).


Some will just brush this off and say no game is perfect. That's true. But I will concede (and score) so many bullshit goals to this stuff that... I don't think I can enjoy the good stuff, without AI being made twice as intelligent.

It feels like the game's AI (for both sets of players) is operating a second behind the actual game, if that makes sense - evidenced perfectly in the video above.

The keeper runs/dives to where the ball was a second beforehand, twice.
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Personally i love that. It keeps the game more unpredictable and the ball is a challenge to trap and keep like in reality. Also really cool how the players can retaliate after a bad touch like this sometimes with a unique animation.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
Personally i love that. It keeps the game more unpredictable and the ball is a challenge to trap and keep like in reality. Also really cool how the players can retaliate after a bad touch like this sometimes with a unique animation.
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I can accept that, as I said in the post. The example I give isn't the best and when it happens quickly, it can look good. But the only reason he ended up "stomaching" that ball directly (and I mean directly) to the opposition striker (it never seems to create a loose ball, it seems to magnetise to someone), the only reason is because the "first touch, then move in a straight line" animation kept playing, so he (and you) are powerless.

In reality, he'd be immediately turning into the acre of empty space away from his own goal (not committing football suicide and "stomaching" it backwards). But again, I accept that it's nice to see mistakes. Just like it's nice to see fouls.
 
amartingil said:
PESEP explains clearly how to use it in this video:


R3 has a lot of uses and works better combining it with other moves.

You can jog if you presss R3 towards the goal, but i don't use it. Usually, what I do its relasing all buttons to remain near the ball without touching it, like old PES.
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Thanks for the link. Unfortunately he doesn’t really explain it clearly. All he does is tell me not to focus too much on finesse dribbling and hold R and L in different situations to achieve random results.

I didn’t try the R3 thing, however. Maybe that’s what I am looking for.
 
Thanks for the reply @Chris Davies

Can't say I've seen any of those really, or noticed, but they all look pretty bad, especially the keeper! If that happens a lot online they must fix it at some point as a lot of people will complain about it.

Regarding the first one, could it be because you held the sprint button (for too long)?
Not saying you're "playing the game wrong", just trying to find an explanation as to why it behaves like that, and because I never saw that myself...
 
I've some clips here people playing with dynamic wide cam. Off course, anyone it's able to play how he wants but I recomend playing with stadium cam to be competitive online. Modify it if you want, but use it and you'll feel rewarded.

I remember Bhatti words, "the gameplay was developed to play with stadium camera". I tried both, and I understand his words now. Here are a few reasons:

- The pan view lets you be better tacticaly, you are aware of whole team shape, off-the-balls of two teams, and you know where are facing every player, how much space they have (you can't notice it in radar) and all of this seeing the player you're controling at the same time. It makes you anticipate the play and be more sensitive with players positioning.

- The space sense and tridimensional awarness that you have with stadium cam fits better with the gameplay. With wide dynamic your space awarness it's different, sometimes you feel you have more space than you really have and in consecuence you miss the timing. Thoug play and overtime inputs happens more with this cam.

- The pace feels slower in stadium cam. The cam follows smoothly the game, and your eyes don't suffer in high speed moments and your brain reacts better to the pace changes.
 
Chris Davies said:
put your reserve GKs in midfield and your pass accuracy doesn't suffer, so what the hell are the attributes doing? They only seem to matter in 10% of situations (when a player is off-balance for example
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But... should that not be the case?
In real life, Id consider myself to have about 37...ish pass accuracy. But give me the ball, leave me alone, and 9 out of 10 times you will receive a very decent pass.
On the other hand - put some pressure on me, surprise me when im off balance, or send me some difficult ball and ill break the neighbours window.. :LOL:
 
Chris Davies said:
I delayed replying to this because I thought I'd saved a clip of it at a friend's house, but I hadn't, sorry. I'll clip it next time it happens...
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For the first video, for me, it's something i can ignore. It's one thing that differentiates from the other game. The errors in passing, ball bouncing off from you etc. I love the randomness of it. It's something i like compared to the other football game where it's too perfect at times.

The second video: did you press L1 because that would make the player run if you do the L1 pass. If yes, that's a cause for concern. No reason why thay player should stop.

The third video: yeah, I'm with you on this. hate it when that happens. It's like they suddenly just went brain dead for a sec. But to be fair, it happened once in like 40-50 matches to me. Still ,Hopefully they can fix it.
 
rockstrongo said:
Who cares what person nr1 thinks on this game?
I actually don't care whether their agenda is a bit cloudy or if they're sincerely don't like this game no matter what their standpoint on Pes is?
Couldn't care less, they're not playing/buying the game for me right?

Think people need to stop taking criticism/butchering of this game so personally.
I have a few guys I trust regarding what I enjoy desire in a Pes game,if they approve it and are on the same page as me, great!
And if it keeps delivering til release,it's a buy for me.
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I agree.

No offence to any of you, but I’ll decide myself if I like it. You can say it’s crap, amaze balls, whatever. But you should always play what you enjoy, not what others say is good.

I’m loving this now, it’s a good demo. Flawed, yes. But the best Fifa games in recent times like fifa 14 were flawed but still hugely enjoyable.

I might get this.
 
amartingil said:
I've some clips here people playing with dynamic wide cam. Off course, anyone it's able to play how he wants but I recomend playing with stadium cam to be competitive online. Modify it if you want, but use it and you'll feel rewarded.

I remember Bhatti words, "the gameplay was developed to play with stadium camera". I tried both, and I understand his words now. Here are a few reasons:

- The pan view lets you be better tacticaly, you are aware of whole team shape, off-the-balls of two teams, and you know where are facing every player, how much space they have (you can't notice it in radar) and all of this seeing the player you're controling at the same time. It makes you anticipate the play and be more sensitive with players positioning.

- The space sense and tridimensional awarness that you have with stadium cam fits better with the gameplay. With wide dynamic your space awarness it's different, sometimes you feel you have more space than you really have and in consecuence you miss the timing. Thoug play and overtime inputs happens more with this cam.

- The pace feels slower in stadium cam. The cam follows smoothly the game, and your eyes don't suffer in high speed moments and your brain reacts better to the pace changes.
Click to expand...

It also highlights all the available angles,and how the subtlety of player movement allows you to take advantage of them.

Good post and i concur.
 
Rodchenko said:
What are you holding to finesse dribble?
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I hold the right stick. Sorry, maybe I get the terms mixed up. Is right stick finesse dribble or close dribble?:?

Either way, I pretty much suck at it!
I saw a video earlier (Weedens maybe) who showed how to move the ball slowly/tight to the players legs and then burst off with sprint button, but I can't do it for the life of me. It's like the sprint lags behind so first the player will take a normal touch after the close dribble and then he'll do the sprint.

Edit: here's the video, for example Messi at 0:55.
 
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Mikhail said:
I agree.

No offence to any of you, but I’ll decide myself if I like it. You can say it’s crap, amaze balls, whatever. But you should always play what you enjoy, not what others say is good.

I’m loving this now, it’s a good demo. Flawed, yes. But the best Fifa games in recent times like fifa 14 were flawed but still hugely enjoyable.

I might get this.
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Its always the whole package that gets me in (good Ai in both ends etc)
I know it won't be as good as fifa with presentation ,but I'm not really seeing a better gameplay from any other game between 18-20 either
And that's what's getting my money (most likely) a good game play
My purchase of Pes 17 has paid itself multiple times .
Haven't played it that much to be fair,but I like what I'm seeing.
I'm pretty much sold to mate
 
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Chris Davies said:
Playing this demo is driving me crackers. I'm absolutely in love with half of it - the dribbling (which I'm still getting used to), the AI (most of the time), the unpredictable ball physics. It's got that "one more game" feel.

Even defensive positioning has been worked on, something I talk to @Matt10 about in an upcoming podcast. I tried to score past a desperately defending River Plate and they had ten men in the box, deflecting 4-5 shots one after the other. It was immensely satisfying. Well done to them for working on the tactical side of the game.

But the other half of it - well, as someone else has already done, put your reserve GKs in midfield and your pass accuracy doesn't suffer, so what the hell are the attributes doing? They only seem to matter in 10% of situations (when a player is off-balance for example).

Once a game (to be VERY generous) there'll be an incident where the collision engine does something stupid that stands out like a sore thumb, and this is the game-breaker for me - e.g. a player will win possession of the ball (my player or the AI's, it's not a "cheat", it's just the collision engine) and then stand and watch the dead ball in-front of him as an opponent just runs across him and takes it back again. It goes from feeling super-fluid to super-stiff in a heartbeat and it's not occasionally, it's every game. And these are five minute games, so what's a ten minute game going to be like?!

It's not just one recurring issue - I've seen the goalkeeper look the other way while a goal goes in, I've seen the keeper run past the striker and stop, leaving an open goal, I've seen the ball go through the keeper's body, an outfield player's body...

Most annoyingly, I've seen defenders hit an invisible wall to stop them intercepting a pass / tackling a dribbler - and that for me is something where I just can't look the other way and say "it's fine". It's not fine.

I won't go on about the fouls - sick of talking about it, and honestly, it's not the biggest issue I have - but it's definitely worth pointing out that 90% of free kicks closer than 30yds go in the back of the net too (again, human or AI).

I'll never pre-order a PES (or any game) - but I'm hoping the final build has worked on all of this stuff. It will probably be the best modern PES regardless and I know that's enough for some (as long as the AI provides as much of a challenge as 2019 - another worry, I find the big teams are WAY too easy to play against in this demo, on Superstar - they should scare me, and they don't).
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I agree with these issues too Chris, though I'll say they aren't quite rising to the level of ruining it for me.

But yeah, the AI in PES is slow at times to recognize quick changes in play and they just... freeze. It's annoying, though for whatever reason - maybe I'm just more in sync with the game now - but it's not bothering me as much as it was in the first few days.

I am getting pretty annoyed by all the attacking runs that start then stop real quick, like you posted with Lukaku. Def been noticing that more and more and it's pretty poor and frustrating. There's also times when my attackers just don't bother making runs into wide open space in front of them which is annoying too.

And I agree about the concern of stats. It almost feels like they've made 80 percent of passes makable by everyone, and stats only matter in certain situations. I don't know, it's something that's been niggling at me but I'm not quite sure yet.

That's the big concern though - will many of these little annoyances turn into major annoyances once we're playing the full game and longer halves.
 
rockstrongo said:
Its always the whole package that gets me in (good Ai in both ends etc)
I know it won't be as good as fifa with presentation ,but I'm not really seeing a better gameplay from any other game between 18-20 either
And that's what's getting my money (most likely) a good game play
My purchase of Pes 17 has paid itself multiple times .
Haven't played it that much to be fair,but I like what I'm seeing.
I'm pretty much sold to mate
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PES 2017 was a lovely game. I spent many hours on my Middlesbrough save playing that.

The other game has been bad for a long time now, I hate the Engine. PES for its flaws feels heavy, slower and just flows better. Plus it doesn’t matter how good or bad the other game is, it will most probably be far too easy again with or without sliders.

But yeah I’m with you I think I’m in. I just hope they don’t change the final version too much from this demo.
 
PRO_TOO said:
Let’s not get confused here. R3 is pressing the right stick (RS)! Finesse dribbling is moving RS!
@Rodchenko RS does what LS+R2 was before.
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Starting to just now getting to grips with finesse dribbling, and when it comes off it's pretty sweet.

Am I right that the best way to use finesse dribbling is just short taps in different directions in combo with other moves? At least that's what I'm finding, but maybe I'm way off?

Unless I'm missing something, I feel like Konami really screwed up with how they introduced this, since it seems most people (including myself) took it to mean that you'd actually use RS as an alternative to LS for dribbling, when it's really about just doing quick special moves... yes?
 
mfmaxpower said:
Starting to just now getting to grips with finesse dribbling, and when it comes off it's pretty sweet.

Am I right that the best way to use finesse dribbling is just short taps in different directions in combo with other moves? At least that's what I'm finding, but maybe I'm way off?

Unless I'm missing something, I feel like Konami really screwed up with how they introduced this, since it seems most people (including myself) took it to mean that you'd actually use RS as an alternative to LS for dribbling, when it's really about just doing quick special moves... yes?
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Yeah. I’m moving my player with LS and then add moving the RS to this when it fits. When I want to make a turn around someone or need to get away from the opponent.
And R2 (as a modifier) I use to make fakes and such stuff. But try to focus on one thing first. Go for the RS!
 
Bonano said:
I hold the right stick. Sorry, maybe I get the terms mixed up. Is right stick finesse dribble or close dribble?:?

Either way, I pretty much suck at it!
I saw a video earlier (Weedens maybe) who showed how to move the ball slowly/tight to the players legs and then burst off with sprint button, but I can't do it for the life of me. It's like the sprint lags behind so first the player will take a normal touch after the close dribble and then he'll do the sprint.

Edit: here's the video, for example Messi at 0:55.
Click to expand...

Amm.... what ?? Such a poor video... " Here see, you can do some cool stuff, thx for watching " That maybe is the WORST Weedens tutorial ever. It's clearly made for views.
 
Chris Davies said:
I delayed replying to this because I thought I'd saved a clip of it at a friend's house, but I hadn't, sorry. I'll clip it next time it happens.

That said, I see a lot of possession lost in circumstances where the player intercepts it perfectly with his feet, then "miscontrols" it so badly with his upper body that it becomes a pass to the opponent. It looks (and feels) fake every time.

In this instance, the interceptor has TONS of free space to move the ball into, yet (my input is ignored and) of his own accord, he chests it towards his own goal, and directly to the opponent that the pass was meant for. I don't think it's a coincidence.

(You could argue that, if it was faster - even though I'm playing on 0 here - that my player just didn't have time to control it, and it bounced off him. That's fair enough, I can accept that. But it feels "dodgy" to me every time I see this. Just letting the ball hit you and bounce off you, no attempt to direct it away from danger.)


As I say, I'm seeing stuff like this every five-minute game, and I can't unsee it, or enjoy it, knowing this is going on.

Here I am on for a brilliant counter-attack and... When in God's name would you ever see a striker do this? What if this was my only counter in an entire ten-minute game?


And as for the keeper here...
Online, goalkeepers are mental, because there seems to be a lag in your AI players' brains that isn't as bad (but is still there) offline, which is most noticeable in your defensive third (because when your defenders watch the ball go past, or run past the man in possession, you concede a goal 9/10 times).


Some will just brush this off and say no game is perfect. That's true. But I will concede (and score) so many bullshit goals to this stuff that it will spoil everything in-between.

It feels like the game's AI (for both sets of players) is operating a second behind the actual game, if that makes sense - evidenced perfectly in the video above.

The keeper runs/dives to where the ball was a second beforehand, twice.
Click to expand...
there are some odd behaviors yes, and this is not new to PES, it s known even since pes 4 or 5
 
Mikhail said:
PES 2017 was a lovely game. I spent many hours on my Middlesbrough save playing that.

The other game has been bad for a long time now, I hate the Engine. PES for its flaws feels heavy, slower and just flows better. Plus it doesn’t matter how good or bad the other game is, it will most probably be far too easy again with or without sliders.

But yeah I’m with you I think I’m in. I just hope they don’t change the final version too much from this demo.
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Would be devastating if they do man.
It's obviously gonna change a bit,instead of 5 min,we will have 10-15-20 min games (20 for me) and the obvious ML boost from the CPU.
But fingers crossed Mikhail
 
1500 text lines is like combining all lines of Toriel and Papyrus from Undertale, taking all the lines from Heavy Rain, or one tenth of Metal Gear Solid. Could be enough, I guess?
 
The real challenge this year will be to defend, when people get their heads around Right+Left stick combo. Already seeing it online how difficult it is to stay with the player, when they do quick flicks. Any sort of momentum on your side and you will just miss the ball and the player altogether. Taking your foot of the gas and Jockeying is more important than ever. Its so easy for good players to lose you, with small, quick finesse move and then burst. Good few times I felt like a child, when good players were toying with me online (now I know how my dogs feel, when they try to take the ball of me in the garden)
But im finding defending very addictive and fun in its own, challenging way. More effective sliding tackles are also pure gold. Few times last night they left me in rear view mirror and my only option was desperate sliding tackle in the box. And they worked.
As much as Im looking forward to Master League (providing they dont break the game on release), its probably first Pes, where I would consider playing online (on FUMA).
 
rockstrongo said:
+1
I'll say that would be enough,maybe shooting error ?
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I'm getting plenty of shots going far and wide!
Not so much from the AI, but definitely from me hahaha.

Well if I had to choose 4 sliders, those would be:
-PASS SPEED
-PASS ERROR
-FIRST TOUCH ERROR
-ACCELERATION/SPRINT SPEED
Obviously for each side (Human and CPU).

With those 4, we could make a whole different game. Take it much closer to a realistic experience.
 
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